Help needed from experienced people !!
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Why are they still your friends?
Do not become friends/intimates with disbelievers Surah 4139, 4144, 551, 557, 671, 6129, 73, 727, 730, 923, 1850, 5814, 601, 6013
Start distancing yourself from them. See where Allah takes you.
Leave disbelievers alone Surah 608-9, 670, 6112, 6137, 7176, 7180, 153, 4383, 5245, 6844, 7042, 7311, 8617
Peace.
I'm sorry ragin but it is ridiculous to suggest that one should leave their friends just because they are of a different faith. And in this world where there are a few Quran-Olone muslims, who do you expect to make friends with?
@Student of Allah
I have many Sunni friends (and some Shia) and I would never try to start a debate with them. Most a devout Sunnis and I might create some hatred between us if I ever started such a debate. It is quite annoying lol.
But kudos to you for engaging in this controversial topic with your friends and consistently pointing out errors in their beliefs. Praise God for giving you the courage -X
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I'm sorry ragin but it is ridiculous to suggest that one should leave their friends just because they are of a different faith.
"What, is he who is upon a clear sign from his Lord like unto such a one unto whom his evil deeds have been decked out fair, and they have followed their caprices?" Surah 4714
And in this world where there are a few Quran-Olone muslims, who do you expect to make friends with?
You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with Allah.
?Those who take unbelievers for their friends instead of believers -- do they seek glory in them? But glory altogether belongs to God.? 4139
?O believers, take not the unbelievers as friends instead of the believers; or do you desire to give God over you a clear authority?? Surah 4144
?O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. God guides not the people of the evildoers.? Surah 551
?O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport -- and fear God, if you are believers ?? Surah 557
?Thou seest many of them making unbelievers their friends. Evil is that they have forwarded to their account, that God is angered against them, and in the chastisement they shall dwell forever.
Yet had they believed in God and the Prophet and what has been sent down to him, they would not have taken them as friends; but many of them are ungodly.? Surah 580-81?Say 'Shall we call, apart from God, on that which neither profits nor hurts us, and shall we be turned back on our heels after that God has guided us? -- Like one lured to bewilderment in the earth by Satans, though he has friends who call him to guidance, "Come to us!" Say 'God's guidance is the true guidance, and we are commanded to surrender to the Lord of all Being,? Surah 671
?So We make the evildoers friends of each other for what they have earned.? Surah 6129
?Children of Adam! Let not Satan tempt you as he brought your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their garments to show them their shameful parts. Surely he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you see them not. We have made the Satans the friends of those who do not believe.? Surah 727
?a part He guided, and a part justly disposed to error -- they have taken Satans for friends instead of God, and think them guided.'? Surah 730
?O believers, take not your fathers and brothers to be your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief; whosoever of you takes them for friends, those -- they are the evildoers.? Surah 923
?And when We said to the angels, 'Bow yourselves to Adam'; so they bowed themselves, save Iblis; he was one of the jinn, and committed ungodliness against his Lord's command. What, and do you take him and his seed to be your friends, apart from Me, and they an enemy to you? How evil is that exchange for the evildoers!? Surah 1850
?Hast thou not regarded those who have taken for friends a people against whom God is wrathful? They belong neither to you nor to them; and they swear upon falsehood, and that wittingly.? Surah 5814
?O believers, take not My enemy and your enemy for friends, offering them love, though they have disbelieved in the truth that has come to you, expelling the Messenger and you because you believe in God your Lord. If you go forth to struggle in My way and seek My good pleasure, secretly loving them, yet I know very well what you conceal and what you publish; and whosoever of you does that, has gone astray from the right way.? Surah 601
?O believers, take not for friends a people against whom God is wrathful, and who have despaired of the world to come, even as the unbelievers have despaired of the inhabitants of the tombs.? Surah 6013
I hear and I obey. Surah 57
Who is my friend?
?Your friend is only God, and His Messenger, and the believers who perform the prayer and pay the alms, and bow them down.
Whoso makes God his friend, and His Messenger, and the believers -- the party of God, they are the victors.? Surah 555-56?Those who believe, and have emigrated and struggled with their possessions and their selves in the way of God, and those who have given refuge and help -- those are friends one of another. And those who believe, but have not emigrated -- you have no duty of friendship towards them till they emigrate; yet if they ask you for help, for religion's sake, it is your duty to help them, except against a people between whom and you there is a compact; and God sees the things you do.
As for the unbelievers, they are friends one of another. Unless you do this, there will be persecution in the land and great corruption.? Surah 872-73?And the believers, the men and the women, are friends one of the other; they bid to honour, and forbid dishonour; they perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and they obey God and His Messenger. Those -- upon them God will have mercy; God is All-mighty, All-wise.? Surah 971
?Those who have said, 'Our Lord is God.' then have gone straight, upon them the angels descend, saying, 'Fear not, neither sorrow; rejoice in Paradise that you were promised.
We are your friends in the present life and in the world to come; therein you shall have all that your souls desire, all that you call for,? Surah 4030-31?Surely they will not avail thee aught against God. Surely the evildoers are friends one of the other; God is the friend of the godfearing.? Surah 4519
Allah does not forbid you respecting people. He forbids you taking unbelievers as intimates, friends, guardians. Surah 608-9
?God forbids you not, as regards those who have not fought you in religion's cause, nor expelled you from your habitations, that you should be kindly to them, and act justly towards them; surely God loves the just.
God only forbids you as to those who have fought you in religion's cause, and expelled you from your habitations, and have supported in your expulsion, that you should take them for friends. And whosoever takes them for friends, those -- they are the evildoers.? Surah 608-9Those who uphold teachings Allah did not reveal are not my friends nor my intimates. I do not practice pagan Namaz; I uphold the salat taught to us by Allah in the Quran. I do not pay 2.5% of my total income once a year; I spend 1/5 of the abundance at every payday if not more, on top of the Medicare, Social Security, and Unemployment taxes that are obligatory.
These men continue to fight with Student of Allah after the Truth has been given to them. Their description is clear in the Quran.
"Those who disbelieve and bar from God's way, God will send their works astray.
But those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what is sent down to Muhammad -- and it is the truth from their Lord -- He will acquit them of their evil deeds, and dispose their minds aright.
That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Even so God strikes their similitudes for men." Surah 471-3I do not need the affirmation of others for happiness. I do not need to be surrounded by people for my self-esteem to thrive. In the 3 years I have been a believer, a Muslim with faith in his heart, I have met people from around the world who I can speak to over the Internet and the phone.
"I asked for strength and Allah gave me difficulties to make me strong.
I asked for wisdom and Allah gave me problems to solve.
I asked for courage and Allah gave me obstacles to overcome.
I asked for love and Allah gave me troubled people to help.
I asked for favors and Allah gave me opportunities.
Maybe I received nothing I wanted but I received everything I needed." ~ AnonThis is true in my life. I may have only a handful of people I would call 'friend' - and none of them live near me - but that does not mean I am alone. I am never alone.
My Friend is Allah. He is always near. )
I submit my will to Allah.
Peace.
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Why are they still your friends?
Do not become friends/intimates with disbelievers Surah 4139, 4144, 551, 557, 671, 6129, 73, 727, 730, 923, 1850, 5814, 601, 6013
Start distancing yourself from them. See where Allah takes you.
Leave disbelievers alone Surah 608-9, 670, 6112, 6137, 7176, 7180, 153, 4383, 5245, 6844, 7042, 7311, 8617
Peace.
Red highlights above are from me.
Once upon a time, there was this dude on the roof, walking forward, unknowingly getting too close to the edge. Someone on the ground saw him and shouted out, ?Hey, so and so, watch out, you?re going to fall down?. The guy got scared and started walking backward till he fell down from the opposite side.
Raging, you are the similitude of the dude above. Falling from one extreme to the other.
The ?disbeliveers?/Kafiroon, you?ve referred to in most of the verses you?ve quoted, are actually all Muslims who need to reform. They already believe in all the PRINCIPAL articles of our faith, i.e. ISLAM. They believe in ALLAAH, SWT. They believe in the HEREAFTER. And, they believe in being RIGHTEOUS, and indeed a lot of them are righteous and do lead a righteous life. Plus they believe in the word of GOD, SWT, i.e. The Qur?aan.
We may call them SECTARIANS, but NOT disbelievers. And, according to the verse 6159 below, GOD, SWT, alone is to judge them, not any one else.
Verily those who have split their religion and become sects, thou art not amongst them in aught their affair is only with Allah. Then He will declare unto them that which they were wont to do.
The point is that Muslims have no quarrels with the sectarians other than saying that the religion MUST be about the worship of GOD Alone. All we are saying to them is to stop idolizing the prophets and worship GOD only. We are saying that the Shahaadah must be all about GOD Alone. We are saying to them not to mention any other name in their prayers except GOD. We are saying to them not to call upon anyone else in their call to prayer/ADZAN, but GOD. We are saying not to implore anyone in your DU?AA?, but GOD. We are saying to them The Qur?aan is the ONLY source of religious guidance; do not use any other source like hadith, sunnah, rawaaya, and? alongside with The Qur?aan. We are telling them that there is only one SACRED mosque and that is the one in the city of Mecca with the KA?BAH right in the middle of its courtyard. We are saying to them that the months of performing HAJJ pilgrimage are the four consecutive sacred/HARAAM months. We are asking them to restore those FOUR months back; to minimize the hardship on the people trying to perform their GOD prescribed HAJJ pilgrimage. And finally, we are telling them not to make unlawful what GOD has not made unlawful and vice versa. We are not declaring anything new. We are just propagating the practice of the faith according to The Qur?aan Alone. We are telling them to reform and repent and come back to The Qur?aan. That?s all. No reinvention at all. Just practice the good old ISLAM, the only religion acceptable to ALLAAH, SWT.
Peace,
Khalil -
Nice post kgw. Furthermore, those verses which ragin posted should be taken into context.
The creator would not be so close-minded. Differences in belief is not a reason to hate someone.
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Red highlights above are from me.
Once upon a time, there was this dude on the roof, walking forward, unknowingly getting too close to the edge. Someone on the ground saw him and shouted out, ?Hey, so and so, watch out, you?re going to fall down?. The guy got scared and started walking backward till he fell down from the opposite side.
Raging, you are the similitude of the dude above. Falling from one extreme to the other.
The ?disbeliveers?/Kafiroon, you?ve referred to in most of the verses you?ve quoted, are actually all Muslims who need to reform. They already believe in all the PRINCIPAL articles of our faith, i.e. ISLAM. They believe in ALLAAH, SWT. They believe in the HEREAFTER. And, they believe in being RIGHTEOUS, and indeed a lot of them are righteous and do lead a righteous life. Plus they believe in the word of GOD, SWT, i.e. The Qur?aan.
If a person upholds teachings Allah did not reveal, do they submit to Allah? No.
If a person upholds teachings Allah did not reveal, are they Muslims? No.
If a person upholds teachings Alllah did not reveal, are they disbelievers? Yes.How do I know this?
Because Allah says so.
"Those who disbelieve and bar from God's way, God will send their works astray.
But those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what is sent down to Muhammad -- and it is the truth from their Lord -- He will acquit them of their evil deeds, and dispose their minds aright.
That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Even so God strikes their similitudes for men." Surah 471-3You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with Allah.
We may call them SECTARIANS, but NOT disbelievers. And, according to the verse 6159 below, GOD, SWT, alone is to judge them, not any one else.
Allah disagrees with your statement.
"Surely We have sent down to thee the Book with the truth, so that thou mayest judge between the people by that God has shown thee. So be not an advocate for the traitors;" Surah 4105
"The people were one nation; then God sent forth the Prophets, good tidings to bear and warning, and He sent down with them the Book with the truth, that He might decide between the people touching their differences; and only those who had been given it were at variance upon it, after the clear signs had come to them, being insolent one to another; then God guided those who believed to the truth, touching which they were at variance, by His leave; and God guides whomsoever He will to a straight path." Surah 2213
"And We have sent down to thee the Book with the truth, confirming the Book that was before it, and assuring it. So judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, to forsake the truth that has come to thee. To every one of you We have appointed a right way and an open road. If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance.
And judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, and beware of them lest they tempt thee away from any of what God has sent down to thee. But if they turn their backs, know that God desires only to smite them for some sin they have committed; surely, many men are ungodly." Surah 548-49Allah gives description of the disbelievers throughout the Quran so you know who is a believer and who is not. How are you going to marry a believer if you don't make investigation and judge them by what Allah revealed?
"Do not marry idolatresses, until they believe; a believing servant is better than an idolatress, though you may admire her. And do not marry idolaters, until they believe. A believing servant is better than an idolater, though you may admire him. Those call unto the Fire; and God calls unto Paradise, and pardon, by His leave, and He makes clear His signs to the people; haply they will remember." Surah 2221
You have to make investigation before you choose who you bring into your trust, and who you keep at arm's length.
"O believers, when believing women come to you as emigrants, test them. God knows very well their belief. Then, if you know them to be believers, return them not to the unbelievers. They are not permitted to the unbelievers, nor are the unbelievers permitted to them. Give the unbelievers what they have expended; and there is no fault in you to marry them when you have given them their wages. Do not hold fast to the ties of unbelieving women, and ask what you have expended, and let them ask what they have expended. That is God's judgment; He judges between you; and God is All-knowing, All-wise." Surah 6010
"O believers, when you are journeying in the path of God, be discriminating, and do not say to him who offers you a greeting, 'Thou art not a believer,' seeking the chance goods of the present life. With God are spoils abundant. So you were aforetime; but God has been gracious to you. So be discriminating; surely God is aware of the things you do." Surah 494
Verily those who have split their religion and become sects, thou art not amongst them in aught their affair is only with Allah. Then He will declare unto them that which they were wont to do.
In the End, they will be judged, as will all nations. But in the interim, we are not to take them as friends, intimates, or guardians. We are not among them in anything. Did you miss that?
Proof is given from the Quran. Do you say the ayats posted are not from the Quran?These men are attacking Student of Allah for his service to Allah alone, yet he continues to be friends - intimates - with them. To which I ask Why is he still friends with them if they - after three years - continue to uphold disbelief over the Truth that has been made clear to them?
Proof is given we are taught not to do this by Allah.
You are more than welcome to continue to be friends with the disbelievers.
If I associate with people who uphold hadith, eventually I will uphold hadith. Like for example I could end up believing the Quran has additions in it, as taught by hadith, so I follow the teachings of satans who uphold a Code based on Kabbalist Gematria, to remove ayats from the Book Allah promised to keep pure, protected, without crookedness in it - in the past and in the future. I seek refuge from Allah from being of the ignorant."He has sent down upon you in the Book 'When you hear God's signs being disbelieved and made mock of, do not sit with them until they plunge into some other talk, or else you will surely be like to them.' God will gather the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in Gehenna." Surah 4140
No where are we said to hate someone. We are told to not be friends with them, not to take intimates-guardians from them. Pakistani Assassin only twists words, seeking to say that which I have not. He proves who rules his heart by his words.
"Or did those in whose hearts is sickness think that God would not bring to light their rancour? Did We will, We would show them to thee, then thou wouldst know them by their mark; and thou shalt certainly know them in the twisting of their speech; and God knows your deeds." Surah 4729-30
If Allah does not want you being friends/intimates/guardians with them, why do you do it?
?Thou seest many of them making unbelievers their friends. Evil is that they have forwarded to their account, that God is angered against them, and in the chastisement they shall dwell forever.
Yet had they believed in God and the Prophet and what has been sent down to him, they would not have taken them as friends; but many of them are ungodly.? Surah 580-81As for me, I will not. I do not want to manifest proof against me, nor do I want to become like them.
I don't care what you do. I won't be asked what you did. I am only responsible for myself.You don't like what I'm saying? Then bring your proof from the Quran that refutes it. Bring proof or keep silent, it's wiser.
You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with Allah.
Peace.
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If I associate with people who uphold hadith, eventually I will uphold hadith. Like for example I could end up believing the Quran has additions in it, as taught by hadith, so I follow the teachings of satans who uphold a Code based on Kabbalist Gematria, to remove ayats from the Book Allah promised to keep pure, protected, without crookedness in it - in the past and in the future. I seek refuge from Allah from being of the ignorant.
Dear Raging,
Why can't you turn the table around toward your advantage and make them "end up believing" in your values. How about the ?VICE & VIRTUE? principle? Just see verse 3110 below.
Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers.
Don?t you, as a Muslim, feel having any responsibility toward propagation of your ideology? Can you tell me how you can be an advocate of VIRTUE and a forbidder of VICE, in a peaceful manner? Do you think that, just turning away, minding your own business, is the answer to your ideological responsibilities? Or, you?re one of those who just enjoys hearing the ECHO of his own cry!
Do you think it?s a BIG deal to just make ASSOCIATION, only with those who you?re 100% in agreement with at all times? Just think about it and contemplate verses 608 & 609 below.
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All?h does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, All?h loves those who deal with equity. It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that All?h forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Z?lim?n (wrong-doers those who disobey All?h).Peace,
Khalil -
Peace, Student of Allah !
I feel sorry that you have to deal with such people. I understand how hard it can be. Sometimes people just cling to what they want and run with it, and there is simply nothing that will change their mind.
I do happen to be a good debater though, it's part of what makes me "stubborn" when I believe a particular something.
So I think a little point you can use against the argument they have against you (that you are not a scholar), is to tell them the same thing back! Just say something like, "Well if what I say holds no ground because I am not a scholar, then what makes your point hold ground when you are not a scholar?".
If all goes as I think, they will say something along the lines of, "Well, I'm not a scholar, but I follow the scholar's opinion on the Quran!".
That's when you draw the parallels, and say something like, "So your belief in the Quran stands on your interpretation of the opinions of Bukhari/Muslim hadiths, and my opinion on the Quran stands on my interpretation of Allah's words. So even if we are both wrong, who do you think is closer to the truth?".
They are working with a middle-person, and you are not. Perhaps you can use this debate tactic against them.
If it simply does not get through to them, the only thing you can do is pray for their guidance, and hope Allah guides them to the truth.
May peace be with you.
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Dear Raging,
How about the ?VICE & VIRTUE? principle? See 3110 below.
Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers.
Don?t you, as a Muslim, feel having any responsibility toward propagation of your ideology? How can you be an advocate of VIRTUE and a forbidder of VICE, in a peaceful manner? Do you think that, just turning away, minding your own business, is the answer to your ideological responsibilities? Or, you?re one of those who just enjoys hearing the ECHO of his own cry!
"They think that they lay you under an obligation because they have surrendered! Say Lay me not under obligation by your submission rather Allah lays you under an obligation by guiding you to the faith if you are truthful." Surah 4917
I have no obligation towards propagation. My obligation is only to remind those that fear Allah.
"Nothing of their account falls upon those that are godfearing but a reminding; haply they will be godfearing." Surah 669
"It is not for the believers to go forth totally; but why should not a party of every section of them go forth, to become learned in religion, and to warn their people when they return to them, that haply they may beware?" Surah 9122
If a person chooses not to serve Allah, we are to leave them alone. Allah guides whom He wills.
Leave disbelievers alone Surah 608-9, 670, 6112, 6137, 7176, 7180, 153, 4383, 5245, 6844, 7042, 7311, 8617
"Leave alone those who take their religion for a sport and a diversion, and whom the present life has deluded. Remind hereby, lest a soul should be given up to destruction for what it has earned; apart from God, it has no protector and no intercessor; though it offer any equivalent, it shall not be taken from it. Those are they who are given up to destruction for what they have earned; for them awaits a draught of boiling water and a painful chastisement, for that they were unbelievers." Surah 670
"Thus those associates of theirs have decked out fair to many idolaters to slay their children, to destroy them, and to confuse their religion for them. Had God willed, they would not have done so; so leave them to their forging." Surah 6137
"Then leave them alone to plunge and play, until they encounter that day of theirs which they are promised." Surah 4383, 7042
"Leave Me to those who cry lies, those prosperous ones, and respite them a little," Surah 7311
"You are the best nation ever brought forth to men, bidding to honour, and forbidding dishonour, and believing in God. Had the People of the Book believed, it were better for them; some of them are believers, but the most of them are ungodly." Surah 3110
Do you think it?s a BIG deal to just make ASSOCIATION, only with those who you?re 100% in agreement with at all times? Just think about it and contemplate verses 608 & 609 below.
(٨
All?h does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, All?h loves those who deal with equity. It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that All?h forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Z?lim?n (wrong-doers those who disobey All?h).You only proved you did not read my post above and jumped the gun.
Are you blind that you missed it?
Are you deaf that you couldn't hear it?Allah does not forbid you respecting people. He forbids you taking unbelievers as intimates, friends, guardians. Surah 608-9
?God forbids you not, as regards those who have not fought you in religion's cause, nor expelled you from your habitations, that you should be kindly to them, and act justly towards them; surely God loves the just.
God only forbids you as to those who have fought you in religion's cause, and expelled you from your habitations, and have supported in your expulsion, that you should take them for friends. And whosoever takes them for friends, those -- they are the evildoers.? Surah 608-9Those who uphold teachings Allah did not reveal are not my friends nor my intimates. I do not practice pagan Namaz; I uphold the salat taught to us by Allah in the Quran. I do not pay 2.5% of my total income once a year; I spend 1/5 of the abundance at every payday if not more, on top of the Medicare, Social Security, and Unemployment taxes that are obligatory.
What else did you miss in your haste? P Let's point out what is in bold
"that you should be kindly to them, and act justly towards them"
No where does it state you are to befriend them or take them as intimates.Are you saying you are only kind and act justly to the people you call your friends? We are to act kind and justly towards all until they attack us for our deen. Which the Sunnis have done to Student of Allah, calling service to Allah alone 'satanic'.
Why would I trust these people when they do not believe they will be called to account for their actions?
Why would I take these people as guardians when they fear the name 'Muslim' and want nothing but harm to afflict me?I do not call everyone I associate with 'friend'. I am careful of who I bring into my social circle of trust.
There are many people who are disbelievers who I associate with on a daily basis at my job and in my community. But none of them are people I keep in confidence, nor are they people I put my trust in. I do not take them as intimates. I only trust the believers and bring them close to me because Allah tells me they are the ones I can trust. My Friend is Allah, and He is the best Protector.
"Said he, 'Assuredly he has wronged thee in asking for thy ewe in addition to his sheep; and indeed many intermixers do injury one against the other, save those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness -- and how few they are!' And David thought that We had only tried him; therefore he sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down, bowing, and he repented." Surah 3824
You want to be friends with disbelievers, go right ahead. Give Allah proof against you, give Him clear proof you are ungodly. Give Him reason to be angry with you.
Doesn't harm me in the slightest. )
Peace.
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Salam,
Looks like the whole topic shifted to something that I did not start the topic for P
Only Eikonoklastes came up with some hints as to how to tackle.
Dear Raggin-Taggin (or whatever it is), I did not interpret those verses the way you did. There is a very good reason behind it. Even if you look at us, you will find that we do not blindly obey each other's interpretations, we believe in personal effort to understand Allah's message. So that makes us interpret many verses in different ways. From that perspective alone, you become a rejector from my point of view in some cases, and I become a rejector from your point of view in some cases. No 2 human brains will always interpret the same message with 100% match. Does that mean that we all should consider each other REJECTORS and spend our lives alone ? I dont believe that.
Besides, most of them(my sunni friends) are like the ex-myself. Before Allah guided me to the truth, I assumed blindly that my scholars and parents all did not conspire against me to mislead me. These people concealed the verses of Allah from me, taking wrong advantage of my trust. We have a common ground, we worship non but Allah. They believe in the Qur'an, so my mission is to make them read the Qur'an. The problem is that their scholars do the reading and they follow the scholars. Read the example of the 2 friends that I have given in the previous post, after begging them for 2 years, they finally started reconsidering their positions and reading the scripture. Within in one year, they repented, now they are sharing the Qur'anic message with their friends and family and showing them that our "High Priests" are concealing these verses in order to make us follow their desires not the words of our Lord.
Now, if you guys dont mind, let us cut the debate short. If anyone has any advice for me, let us discuss that. We have many other threads to discuss the interpretations.
Peace be on you all
---------------------------- Student of Allah
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You only proved you did not read my post above and jumped the gun.
Are you blind that you missed it?
Are you deaf that you couldn't hear it?Highlights above are from me.
Dear Raging,
Your mentality of labeling people hastily is a bit unfair. I had read your post in its entirety. I just asked you to ?contemplate? on 608 & 609, because in 609 we are clearly forbidden to BEFRIEND the second group, but in 608, that is not the case regarding the first group. You are saying,
that you should be kindly to them, and act justly towards them
No where does it state you are to befriend them or take them as intimates.
Also, there is a DIFFERENCE between being FRIEND and being INTIMATE. They are not EQUAL in meaning.Anyways. Be a little bit considerate. Control your urges. Do not jump to conclusion in haste. STOP LABELING OTHERS, when they do not agree with you all the way.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace be with you,
Dear Raggin-Taggin (or whatever it is), I did not interpret those verses the way you did. There is a very good reason behind it. Even if you look at us, you will find that we do not blindly obey each other's interpretations, we believe in personal effort to understand Allah's message. So that makes us interpret many verses in different ways. From that perspective alone, you become a rejector from my point of view in some cases, and I become a rejector from your point of view in some cases. No 2 human brains will always interpret the same message with 100% match. Does that mean that we all should consider each other REJECTORS and spend our lives alone ? I dont believe that.
No worries. To you are your deeds and to me are mine. )
Besides, most of them(my sunni friends) are like the ex-myself. Before Allah guided me to the truth, I assumed blindly that my scholars and parents all did not conspire against me to mislead me. These people concealed the verses of Allah from me, taking wrong advantage of my trust. We have a common ground, we worship non but Allah. They believe in the Qur'an, so my mission is to make them read the Qur'an. The problem is that their scholars do the reading and they follow the scholars.
And after 3 years, when do you realize they have chosen their path?
Read the example of the 2 friends that I have given in the previous post, after begging them for 2 years, they finally started reconsidering their positions and reading the scripture. Within in one year, they repented, now they are sharing the Qur'anic message with their friends and family and showing them that our "High Priests" are concealing these verses in order to make us follow their desires not the words of our Lord.
"After 3 years of dialogues with 2 friends, they finally got my point, so whenever I am asked to discuss issues involving Islam, I have immediate necessity to join the discussion and not be arrogant and say that these people will never listen. But I am sick and tired of being called "satanic" and "misguided" because my arguments from Qur'an is not accepted by them due to their bias over the opinions of their scholars."
That's not how the post read, as 'by them' sounds like the 2 friends, who you just spoke about. It still sounded like they were calling you 'satanic' and 'misguided' based on your upholding the Truth. If they have come to accept the Truth and have stopped fighting you, then there is no issue. But after 2-3 years (as the timetable apparently is varied) you have to ask yourself when to fish and when to cut bait, so to speak.
We aren't guides, nor are we guardians. We are only responsible for ourselves. Our day-to-day living should be our dawah as well as our discussions. People will know us to be Muslims because of how we treat others and how we act.
Peace.
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Your mentality of labeling people hastily is a bit unfair.
No where did I say I made any assertion in haste. I even quoted the ayats from the Quran that tell us to make investigation before we make a decision. Twisting words only proves your heart. Surah 4729-30
Also, there is a DIFFERENCE between being FRIEND and being INTIMATE. They are not EQUAL in meaning.
Then why does Allah use the same word throughout the Quran to describe friends as an intimate/guardian relationship? They are equal in meaning.
"God only forbids you as to those who have fought you in religion's cause, and expelled you from your habitations, and have supported in your expulsion, that you should take them for friends (tawallawhum). And whosoever takes them for friends (yatawallahum), those -- they are the evildoers." Surah 609
Surah 4139 (awliya)
Surah 4144 (awliya)
Surah 551 (awliya) (awliyu)
Surah 557 (awliya)
Surah 670 (awliya)
Surah 6129 (nuwallī
Surah 73 (awliya)
Surah 727 (awliya)
Surah 730 (awliya)
Surah 923 (awliya)
Surah 1850 (awliya)
Surah 5814 (tawallaw)
Surah 601 (awliya)
Surah 6013 (tatawallaw)There is a difference between being a 'friend' and being an 'associate'. The former is an intimate relationship, the latter is detached, aloof.
Anyways. Be a little bit considerate. Control your urges. Do not jump to conclusion in haste. STOP LABELING OTHERS, when they do not agree with you all the way.
Stop following falsehood and you won't be a disbeliever in my eyes.
"That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Even so God strikes their similitudes for men." Surah 473
As long as you uphold the teachings of Rashad Khalifa, I keep my distance from you; we are not friends nor will I bring you into my trust. That's just the way it is. I don't want to end up following falsehood as you do.
"He has sent down upon you in the Book 'When you hear God's signs being disbelieved and made mock of, do not sit with them until they plunge into some other talk, or else you will surely be like to them.' God will gather the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in Gehenna." Surah 4140
I value the guidance Allah has shown me. I was on my way to the Fire before being guided to the Truth. That is a gift I will guard, as I am not ungrateful.
To you are your deeds, and to me are mine. )
Peace.
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Peace be with you,
No worries. To you are your deeds and to me are mine. )
And after 3 years, when do you realize they have chosen their path?
"After 3 years of dialogues with 2 friends, they finally got my point, so whenever I am asked to discuss issues involving Islam, I have immediate necessity to join the discussion and not be arrogant and say that these people will never listen. But I am sick and tired of being called "satanic" and "misguided" because my arguments from Qur'an is not accepted by them due to their bias over the opinions of their scholars."
That's not how the post read, as 'by them' sounds like the 2 friends, who you just spoke about. It still sounded like they were calling you 'satanic' and 'misguided' based on your upholding the Truth. If they have come to accept the Truth and have stopped fighting you, then there is no issue. But after 2-3 years (as the timetable apparently is varied) you have to ask yourself when to fish and when to cut bait, so to speak.
We aren't guides, nor are we guardians. We are only responsible for ourselves. Our day-to-day living should be our dawah as well as our discussions. People will know us to be Muslims because of how we treat others and how we act.
Peace.
Peace be on you Raggin-Taggin...
Hahahaha rotfl I just re-read what I wrote in my first post. It really kind of gives the impression that the same 2 friends are calling me Satanic. Lol, no, that is not the case. They took my advice seriously, when they saw my dedication, that this was not just another conspiracy theory. So they read the Qur'an and now their minds are freed (they kinda chose the red pill ) .
The later part of the post is about other people that I know, friends relatives etc. The experience that I have from dealing with those 2 specific friends, is that, it is evolutionary and helpful to follow the herd for survival. That is the reason, they didnt take my claims seriously, since it contradicted the mainstream ideology. But surely, once they started reading the Qur'an and asking Allah for guidance, they saw the truth revealed to them. So my job is to make sure that these scholars and mullahs dont blind them from the verses of Allah and never tell them that there exists a thing called the "RED PILL" . Believe me, most do not know that there is such a pill. I never knew, I was told. Since I know now, I must offer tell them, to chose from the Red and Blue Pills. If they deliberately choose to take the blue pill, non can guide them accept Allah.
PEACE
---------------- Student of Allah
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Peace be on you Raggin-Taggin...
Hahahaha rotfl I just re-read what I wrote in my first post. It really kind of gives the impression that the same 2 friends are calling me Satanic. Lol, no, that is not the case. They took my advice seriously, when they saw my dedication, that this was not just another conspiracy theory. So they read the Qur'an and now their minds are freed (they kinda chose the red pill ) .
Alhamdulillah!
The later part of the post is about other people that I know, friends relatives etc. The experience that I have from dealing with those 2 specific friends, is that, it is evolutionary and helpful to follow the herd for survival. That is the reason, they didnt take my claims seriously, since it contradicted the mainstream ideology. But surely, once they started reading the Qur'an and asking Allah for guidance, they saw the truth revealed to them. So my job is to make sure that these scholars and mullahs dont blind them from the verses of Allah and never tell them that there exists a thing called the "RED PILL" . Believe me, most do not know that there is such a pill. I never knew, I was told. Since I know now, I must offer tell them, to chose from the Red and Blue Pills. If they deliberately choose to take the blue pill, non can guide them accept Allah.
And that is where it is tough, especially with our loved ones. My own family continues to uphold teachings of the satans - Trinitarian Christianity - and deride/abuse the deen of Al-Islam. As such I have withdrawn from them. I still love them and treat them with respect, but I uphold the example of Abraham (pbuh) taught to us in the Quran
"You have had a good example in Abraham, and those with him, when they said to their people, 'We are quit of you and that you serve, apart from God. We disbelieve in you, and between us and you enmity has shown itself, and hatred for ever, until you believe in God alone - except that Abraham said unto his father, 'Certainly I shall ask pardon for thee; but I have no power to do aught for thee against God.' - 'Our Lord, in Thee we trust; to Thee we turn; to Thee is the homecoming." Surah 604
Our job is only to remind. It is up to Allah to remove the veil from their eyes, if it is to be removed. You are continuing to share the knowledge Allah gave you, all praise belongs to Him! So continue your path, and ask Allah for patience and to open your heart to peace. )
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.
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highlight is from me.
Verse 2563
And the bondmen of the Compassionate are those Who Walk upon the earth meekly and when the ignorant address them, they say peace.
PEACE,
KhalilPeace.
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Salam,
Studying scriptures is one of my favorite activities for the past few years. This is what opened my eyes/ears/mind to the message of Allah, and thus made me follow only Allah's command. In this Sunni community, I often have to get in to theological and religious dialogues with many friends almost everyday. Mainly because of my objection to follow their approved method to interpret Islam. So, as you can imagine, it always ends up in a debate. I need some help from people with similar experience.
Now, the way I invite them to leave conjecture is by inviting them to study the Qur'an (atleast read it in a language that they may comprehend atleast part of it). Praise be to my teacher, the Master of the worlds that all my arguments are already revealed in the Qur'an. All I have to do is read and obey and share it with fellow Sunni muslims. However, the job is not that easy. Once I question the hadiths, a huge line of arguments are put forth from the sunni side. Once again, a mere reading of the Qur'an clears the doubt between us. But still, the sunni's keep on insisting that if I am right, all of their great scholars are wrong, everyone. So they ignore my arguments from the Qur'an based on the fact that I am not a well recognized scholar of Islam. Often times, they ask me to go debate "Dr. Zakir Naik" about these issues -\ . A few times, I was actually asked to go to all the muslim organisations and debate them.
By the way, I have shared the problems I found in Hadiths (both authority and authenticity) with them. They do not have any argument besides "you are not a recognized scholar and Arabic is not your language" brickwall . Whenever I show them Qur'anic evidences against hadiths, they simply tell me that I am not in the authoritative position to say that. They keep on telling me that I am wrong because their "experts" dont agree with me, no reason, just that their experts dont agree. brickwall
After 3 years of dialogues with 2 friends, they finally got my point, so whenever I am asked to discuss issues involving Islam, I have immediate necessity to join the discussion and not be arrogant and say that these people will never listen. But I am sick and tired of being called "satanic" and "misguided" because my arguments from Qur'an is not accepted by them due to their bias over the opinions of their scholars.
Any advice ???
------------------------- Student of Allah
Well look at it this way. When do they become Quranist one day, they will say the same thing. Easy come easy go. Its better to see people resist when presented with an alternative point of view than to see them just decide to change easily. That means they will do the same if they ever become Koranist.
Anyways most people are conformist. Look at it from their point of view.
"Is this guy trying to tell me that all those Muslims around the world are wrong and don't know the Koran but he does?" "That all those Muslims for the past 1000 years were wrong and he is right?" "That all those scholars who memorized the Koran are wrong and he is right?"
Religion many say is a top down process and not a bottom up process. That is what i like about the net, you can find people who are non conformist. Finally and more importantly, if you look at Sunni Islam, during Shafi they were a small minority. It actually takes a few determined persistent people to change history. In time people will change because they have to. One of Shafi's argument against only following the Koran was individualism and multiple interpretations. We know from this forum, Shafi was correct. In ancient times this may have been seen as a liability against the Quranist persuasion. In modern times, this is an asset.
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Well look at it this way. When do they become Quranist one day, they will say the same thing. Easy come easy go. Its better to see people resist when presented with an alternative point of view than to see them just decide to change easily. That means they will do the same if they ever become Koranist.
Anyways most people are conformist. Look at it from their point of view.
"Is this guy trying to tell me that all those Muslims around the world are wrong and don't know the Koran but he does?" "That all those Muslims for the past 1000 years were wrong and he is right?" "That all those scholars who memorized the Koran are wrong and he is right?"
Religion many say is a top down process and not a bottom up process. That is what i like about the net, you can find people who are non conformist. Finally and more importantly, if you look at Sunni Islam, during Shafi they were a small minority. It actually takes a few determined persistent people to change history. In time people will change because they have to. One of Shafi's argument against only following the Koran was individualism and multiple interpretations. We know from this forum, Shafi was correct. In ancient times this may have been seen as a liability against the Quranist persuasion. In modern times, this is an asset.
Salam,
hmm, point taken. The whole thing about these scholars and ulemas remind me of the Pharisees of the New Testament.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Salam,
hmm, point taken. The whole thing about these scholars and ulemas remind me of the Pharisees of the New Testament.
Peace
------------- Student of AllahThey are the same lot. One is sectarian the other ethnocentric. One shows and forces his agenda the other hides it and shapes it in a universalist garment. One gives absolute authority to the ruler the other to the community leaders. One shapes his orthodoxy as a ruling majority elite the other as an isolated and exclusive minority. Both are dual revelationist and scripture abrogationist.
http//www.houseofdavid.ca/isl_jud.htm
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Can't say that I'm experienced (yet, ISA)...but I did want to share one thing.
4133 And who is better in saying than he who invites to GOD, and does good works, and says I am one of those who have submitted.
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
/Happy Ramadan!
peace
~Abdul-Hadi