fairy tale vs myth
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Peace all.
So one of the things, I have always struggled with is the concept of is the fact that some of the stories in the Quran may not be the literal. While the Quran itself mentions the inclusion of allegorical verses, I could not help but think does not enough happen in real life from which moral lessons can be derived, why is there a need to resort to myth. Also, some of the hesitation came from having it drilled into me, that everything is literal.
Well I have been reading a book called "Twelve steps to a compassionate life" by Karen Armstrong, and she actually touches on this topic, but in a way that makes me go hmm, yah, I kind of get it.
"The concept of mythology needs explanation because in our modern scientific world, it has lost much of its original force. A myth is not a fanciful fairy tale. In popular speech, the word "myth" is often used to describe something that is simply not true. Accused of a peccadillo in his past life, a politician is likely to protest that the story is a myth-that it didn't happen. But in the premodern world, the purpose of myth was not to impart factual or historical information. The Greek mythos derives from the word musteion "to close the mouth or the eyes." It is associated with silence, obscurity, and darkness. A myth was an attempt to express some of the more elusive aspects of life that cannot easily be expressed in logical, discursive speech. A myth is more than history; it is an attempt to explain the deeper significance of an event. A myth has been well described as something that in one sense happened once-but that also happens all the time. It is about timeless,universal truth." (page 27).
Anyways, now comes the hard part, finding out what the universal truth is , in each story.
Kukumber
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Allah works in mysterious ways.
This is not a response to you, Kukumber, but a reply on the topic you have brought up, and a reply to the person who posted this on a totally different thread.
This is the superstition I have to deal with...
Highlights above are from me.
According to the verses below, among numerous other ones, humans & jinns are two completely different creations, both ESSENTIALLY & CHRONOLOGICALLY.
5514
He created man of clay like the potter's.
5515
And the jinn did He create of smokeless fire.
1526
And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud.
1527
And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.
I want you to notice what you just posted
"We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire."
The Jinn were created before the Nasi.
I also want you to note you are using the Arabic word for 'Jinn', but you translate (Nasi) into 'Man'. So already a deception is occurring. But we'll get to that.
Jinn were created before Nasi, which shows Nasi are successors of the Jinn. This is upheld in the Quran.
Successor (Khalif) Surah 230, 3170, 49, 6133, 6165, 717, 769, 774, 7142, 7150, 7169, 9118, 1014, 1073, 1092, 1311, 1959, 2128, 2276, 2762, 349, 3539, 369, 3645, 3826, 4114, 4125, 4142, 4360, 4621, 6715, 7227
?And when thy Lord said to the angels, 'I am setting in the earth a successor (khaleefatan).' They said, 'What, wilt Thou set therein one who will do corruption there, and shed blood, while We proclaim Thy praise and call Thee Holy?' He said, 'Assuredly I know that you know not.'? Surah 230"What, do you wonder that a reminder from your Lord should come to you by the lips of a man from among you? That he may warn you; and remember when He appointed you as successors (khulafaa) after the people of Noah, and increased you in stature broadly; remember God's bounties; haply you will prosper.'" Surah 769
"And there succeeded after them a succession who inherited the Book, taking the chance goods of this lower world, and saying, 'It will be forgiven us'; and if chance goods the like of them come to them, they will take them. Has not the compact of the Book been taken touching them, that they should say concerning God nothing but the truth? And they have studied what is in it; and the Last Abode is better for those who are godfearing. Do you not understand?" Surah 7169
"And to the three who were left behind (khullifoo), until, when the earth became strait for them, for all its breadth, and their souls became strait for them, and they thought that there was no shelter from God except in Him, then He turned towards them, that they might also turn; surely God turns, and is All-compassionate." Surah 9118
"Had We willed, We would have made angels among you successors (yakhlufoona) in the earth." Surah 4360
Allah states clearly Nasi are made from the seed of another people.
"Thy Lord is All-sufficient, Merciful. If He will, He can put you away, and leave after you, to succeed you (wayastakhlif), what He will, as He produced you from the seed (dhurriyyati) of another (kharna) people (qawmin)." Surah 6133
He even gives details how Adam (pbuh) was made.
?He is the Knower of the Unseen and the Visible, the All-mighty, the All-compassionate, Who has created all things well. And He originated the creation of humans (al-insani) of clay (min teenin), then He fashioned his descendant (naslahu) of an extraction (sulalatin) of low (maheenin) water (ma-in), then He shaped (sawwahu) him, and breathed His spirit (roohihi) in him. And He appointed for you hearing, and sight, and hearts; little thanks you show.? Surah 326-9
There is only one Nasi spoken of in the Quran who was shaped and had Allah's ruh breathed into him - Adam (pbuh) Surah 1529, 329, 3872
If all human beings sprung from the joining of one couple, Allah would not make distinction between the bloodline of the Prophets (pbut), as we all would be from the seed of Adam (pbuh).
(dhurriyyatī offspring Surah 2124, 2128, 2266, 334, 336, 338, 49, 684, 687, 6133, 7172, 7173, 1083, 1338, 1437, 1440, 173, 1762, 1850, 1958, 2927, 3641, 3777, 37113, 4615, 5221, 5726
Seed of Adam Surah 333, 683-87, 7172, 172-3, 1958. 5726?We have honoured the Children of Adam and carried them on land and sea, and provided them with good things, and preferred them greatly over many of those We created.? Surah 1770
"That is Our argument, which We bestowed upon Abraham as against his people. We raise up in degrees whom We will; surely thy Lord is All-wise, All-knowing.
And We gave to him Isaac and Jacob -- each one We guided, And Noah We guided before; and of his seed (dhurriyyatihi) David and Solomon, Job and Joseph, Moses and Aaron -- even so We recompense the good-doers -- Zachariah and John, Isa and Elias; each was of the righteous; Ishmael and Elisha, Jonah and Lot - each one We preferred above all beings; and of their fathers, and of their seed (wadhurriyytihim), and of their brethren (wa-ikh'wnihim); and We elected them, and We guided them to a straight path." Surah 683-87"And We gave Moses the Book, and made it a guidance to the Children of Israel 'Take not unto yourselves any guardian apart from Me.' The seed (dhurriyyata) of those We bore with Noah; he was a thankful servant." Surah 172-3
"These are they whom God has blessed among the Prophets of the seed (dhurriyyati) of Adam, and of those We bore with Noah, and of the seed (dhurriyyati) of Abraham and Israel, and of those We guided and chose. When the signs of the All-merciful were recited to them, they fell down prostrate, weeping." Surah 1958
"And We sent Noah, and Abraham, and We appointed the Prophecy and the Book to be among their seed (dhurriyyatihim and some of them are guided, and many of them are ungodly." Surah 5726
The Jinn are human beings.
Jinn are Christians ? Byzantines ? who accepted the Quran Surah 721-18
Jinn are Yahudians ? Persians ? who accepted the Quran Surah 4629-30
Jew and Christian polytheists who lead astray Surah 2105, 2120, 2135, 2140, 367, 395, 3151, 3186, 582, 6106, 6137, 6161, 931-33, 10105, 16120, 2217, 981-6Jinn are foreigners among Nasi Surah 6128-131, 2217, 3412-13, 738, 7179
'Ajam' ? ?Non-Arab? or ?Persian? Surah 16103, 4144, 26198
Roman-Persian wars Surah 302-4, 1051-5
Solomon?s Jinn in Quran Surah 2716-41, 3412-13
Solomon's Jinn in previous Books I Kings 513-17, II Chron. 217-18, II Chron. 44-6But, but, but... They are made of SMOKELESS FIRE!!!!!!!111111111oneoneoneoneleventeen.
The same people who uphold these superstitious beliefs are often among the many who point to the scientific miracles in the Quran.
One such miracle is Surah 2130
"Have not the unbelievers then beheld that the heavens and the earth were a mass all sewn up, and then We unstitched them and of water fashioned every living thing? Will they not believe?" Surah 2130
This is from the Arberry Quran, translated in 1950. The Yusuf Ali Quran, translated in the 1920s reads
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" Surah 2130
In 1978, the Nobel Prize was awarded for the theory of the Big Bang. This theory postulates that the universe was one mass - a monoblock - that was blown apart and sent out into the void.
Press release for 1978 Nobel Peace Prize
http//nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1978/press.html"A theory developed by the American physicist Gamow and his associates suggested that this synthesis took place at the beginning of the existence of the universe. It is known from studies of the spectra of stars and galaxies that the universe is at present expanding uniformly. This means that at a certain point, 15 billion years ago, the universe was very compact; it is thus tempting to assume that the universe was created by a cosmic explosion, or 'big bang', although other explanations are possible. This 'big bang' theory implies the occurrence of very high temperatures, of about 10 billion degrees. Only at those temperatures can various nuclear reactions take place such that chemical elements could be built up from the elementary particles assumed to be present from the very beginning."
Here Scientists - the largest group of unbelievers I know of who cannot believe in something without proof - are showing how the components of all life and matter in the universe was created in this one Big Bang of intense heat and expansion.
Let's repeat that "This 'big bang' theory implies the occurrence of very high temperatures, of about 10 billion degrees."
This 'big bang' theory implies the occurrence of very high temperatures, of about 10 billion degrees.
This 'big bang' theory implies the occurrence of very high temperatures, of about 10 billion degrees.Jinn created before Nasi of a released, scorching fire Surah 1527, 5515
?And He created (Wakhalaqa) the jinn of (aljanna min) release (marijin) of fire (min narin).? Surah 5515
?and the jinn created We before of fire scorching (alssamoomi).? Surah 1527While someone who upholds superstition sees evil fire creatures lurking in the aether, I see the intense heat of the Big Bang creating the components of all life itself.
You would think, if the Quran still speaks of the Jinn, there would be some way to know them from the Nasi. After all, Allah makes it clear in Surah 1145-6 that the Jinn are part of the Nasi
"Allathee yuwaswisu fee sudoori alnnasi Mina aljinnati waalnnasi" 1145-6
"who whispers in the breasts of nasi, of jinn and nasi.'" Surah 1145-6If we are ALL Nasi, but there are still Jinn in and among the Nasi, there must be some indication of these Jinn that still remains if they are humans, right? If the Quran says it, then we should find some indication of it.
Neanderthal DNA still found in modern Homo Sapiens
Neanderthals, Humans Interbred?First Solid DNA Evidence
"The next time you're tempted to call some oaf a Neanderthal, you might want to take a look in the mirror.
According to a new DNA study, most humans have a little Neanderthal in them?at least 1 to 4 percent of a person's genetic makeup.
The study uncovered the first solid genetic evidence that "modern" humans?or Homo sapiens?interbred with their Neanderthal neighbors, who mysteriously died out about 30,000 years ago.
What's more, the Neanderthal-modern human mating apparently took place in the Middle East, shortly after modern humans had left Africa, not in Europe?as has long been suspected."Read more http//news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100506-science-neanderthals-humans-mated-interbred-dna-gene/
Study Neanderthal DNA Lives On in Modern Humans
"Still, other paleoanthropologists say the discovery is not entirely unexpected. There is ample archaeological evidence ? including tools, habitation sites and fossils ? that Neanderthals and early modern humans may have coexisted in the Middle East as much as 80,000 years ago, and certainly in Europe 30,000 to 45,000 years ago. What has been missing until now is the genetic evidence."The fact that they found it across the board says that the evidence must be very widespread across modern humans," says Erik Trinkaus, an anthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo., who has long argued that the human fossils he has studied in France, Romania, the Czech Republic and other places show mixed ancestry. "If you can find evidence after 30,000 years of genetic shifting, then it must have been pretty important or prominent then." Trinkaus speculates that the genetic flow between Neanderthals and early modern humans might have been as high as 10% to 20%.
The new finding may prompt a tweaking of the well-known Out of Africa theory, which in its strictest interpretation says a small group of early modern humans left Africa and outcompeted and replaced all other hominids without any interbreeding. The alternate theory, known as multiregionalism, argues that distinct populations of modern humans developed simultaneously around the world and along the same evolutionary lines by swapping genes.
"What we falsify here is the very hard Out of Africa theory," said P??bo. "We show that outside Africa there is this 1% to 4% that came from archaic humans. Of course, it's totally possible that archaic forms that we don't know contributed to Africans today. I don't think we should take this as evidence that only people outside Africa have some 'caveman' biology within them."
According to Trinkaus, many paleoanthropologists have long believed that early modern humans and Neanderthals interbred. "People have been saying this for decades," he argues. "The minority position was the position that there was no gene flow. Most people who work with the fossil record support some level of admixture."Whatever our mixing, it is human uniqueness that has also been revealed by the sequencing. By comparing the Neanderthal genome with those of modern humans, the team identified a small number of genetic changes that were newly evolved in modern humans. Some of the changes may have arisen as a result of genetic drift, but others seem to have been positively selected for ? meaning they swept through populations rapidly, possibly because they gave us some advantage."
Read more http//www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1987568-2,00.html
So we do find remnants of the Jinn - Neanderthal man - who was created before Homo Sapien man. We find this in the DNA of Homo Sapien - the Nasi.
I don't believe in a 'Creation' theory, where 'man' was poof suddenly made after an old man in a beard rolled up his sleeves and sculpted him.
I don't believe in a 'Evolution' theory, where 'man' is a series of lucky breaks in evolutionary shifts in such a manner that it is a leap of faith in and of itself.
I believe in an Intervention theory, where Allah guided the path of each successor. Allah says 'Be' and it is, and it is in accord with the Sunnah He has instilled into this world. A world that upholds logic, reason, and evidence-based research.Why would someone want to hide that Jinn are humans, who hold the same ties to Nasi?
"Say 'If the Last Abode with God is yours exclusively, and not for other people, then long for death -- if you speak truly.'" Surah 294
"Say 'You of Jewry, if you assert that you are the friends of God, apart from other men, then do you long for death, if you speak truly.'" Surah 626Hebrew ?nasi? president, prince, ruler
Lev. 422, Eze. 442-18, Ezra 18What are the common translations for 'Nasi' in Arabic men, people, rulers/viceroys
From the Babylonian Talmud
Sanhedrin 57a When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean", there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 37b The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
Baba Kamma 113a Jews may use lies ("subterfuges" to circumvent a Gentile.
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Baba Mezia 24a If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen" it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b)."Say "The Truth has arrived, and falsehood neither originates, nor reproduces." Surah 3449
It's the same false teachings recycled into what is taught in the religions of man.
"Some of the Jews pervert words from their meanings saying, 'We have heard and we disobey' and 'Hear, and be thou not given to hear' and 'Observe us,' twisting with their tongues and traducing religion. If they had said, 'We have heard and obey' and 'Hear' and 'Regard us,' it would have been better for them, and more upright; but God has cursed them for their unbelief so they believe not except a few." Surah 446
"People of the Book, now there has come to you Our Messenger, making clear to you many things you have been concealing of the Book, and effacing many things. There has come to you from God a light, and a Book Manifest" Surah 515
"Then the evildoers of them substituted a saying other than that which had been said to them; so We sent down upon them wrath out of heaven for their evildoing." Surah 7162
And let's not forget the Birds.
?And Solomon was David's heir, and he said, 'Nasi (alnnasu), we have been taught the speech of the birds (alttayri), and we have been given of everything; surely this is indeed the manifest bounty.'? Surah 2716
Solomon wasn't the only person who knew 'the speech of birds'. The Nasi were taught it as well.
Phoenicia(from the Greek Greek Phoin?kē, was an ancient civilization in Canaan which covered most of the western, coastal part of the fertile Crescent. "Phoenicia" is really a Classical Greek term used to refer to the region of the major Canaanite port towns, and does not correspond exactly to a cultural identity that would have been recognised by the Phoenicians themselves. It is uncertain to what extent the Phoenicians viewed themselves as a single ethnicity. Their civilization was organized in city-states, similar to ancient Greece. However In terms of archaeology, language, life style and religion, there is little to set the Phoenicians apart as markedly different from other cultures of Canaan. As Canaanites, they were unique in their remarkable seafaring achievements.
Around 1600 B.C. the Phoenicians invented 22 ?magic signs? called the alphabet, and passed them onto the world. The Phoenicians gave the alphabet to the Greeks who adopted it; the evolution of the Phoenician Alphabet to Etruscan alphabet to the Latin letters of present-day. The Phoenicians were the first state-level society to make extensive use of the alphabet. The Phoenician phonetic alphabet is generally believed to be the ancestor of almost all modern alphabets, although it did not contain any vowels (these were added later by the Greeks). From a traditional linguistic perspective, they spoke Phoenician, a Canaanite dialect. However, due to the very slight differences in language, and the insufficient records of the time, whether Phoenician formed a separate and united dialect, or was merely a superficially defined part of a broader language continuum, is unclear. Through their maritime trade, the Phoenicians spread the use of the alphabet to North Africa and Europe, where it was adopted by the Greeks, who later passed it on to the Etruscans, who in turn transmitted it to the Romans.Hudhud, aka 'Hoopoe' - the bird with the crest on it's head?
http//creagrus.home.montereybay.com/Hoopoe_madj-crest.jpg
A Greek helmet
http//www.lawrensnest.com/images/GRK6058BP.jpg(The Hoopoe is also Israel's National Bird, for those interested.)
The Phoenicans were assimilated into the Greek empire, which was assimilated into the Roman empire to become the Byzantine Empire. What is the flag of the Byzantine Empire?
http//www.glogster.com/media/4/13/31/47/13314752.png
But hey, I'm the crazy one. Right?
Furthermore, chapter 55 in its entirety addresses the HUMANS & JINNS as two different beings and each will end up in one of the TWO SEPARATE paradises each deserves.
5538
So on that Day no question will be asked of man or jinni as to his sin, .
5546
But for him who fears the standing before his Lord, there will be two Gardens.
This is where your superstition gets you into trouble, as you lay your beliefs over what is actually taught.
There are 3 types of people described in the Quran.
3 types of people Surah 746-48, 567-11
- The Foremost
- The People of the Right Hand
- The People of the Left Hand
The Foremost/Outstrippers are
"a throng of the ancients and how few of the later folk." Surah 5613-14The People of the Right Hand are
"A throng of the ancients and a throng of the later folk." Surah 5639-40Allah names both partitions, 'The ancients (al-awwaleena) and the later folk (waal-akhireena)' in Surah 5649
The People of the Left Hand abide in the Fire. Surah 5649-56The two Gardens are for the Foremost and the People of the Right Hand.
The Foremost are in elevated rank, and are in better reward in the Hereafter. Allah teaches of the believers in Paradise, those in the Ramparts, and those in the Fire
"The inhabitants of Paradise will call to the inhabitants of the Fire 'We have found that. which our Lord promised us true; have you found what your Lord promised you true?' 'Yes,' they will say. And then a herald shall proclaim between them 'God's curse is on the evildoers
who bar from God's way, desiring to make it crooked, disbelieving in the world to come.
And between them is a veil, and on the Ramparts are men knowing each by their mark, who shall call to the inhabitants of Paradise 'Peace be upon you! They have not entered it, for all their eagerness.'" Surah 744-46So the Ramparts are one Garden for the Foremost, while the other Garden is for the People of the Right Hand, who are believers but are not foremost in deeds.
Now, you are more than welcome to believe in invisible fire spirits, and that Allah sculpted a man out of clay and made him come alive like Pinocchio, and that Prophets (pbut) were able to speak to birds in a Walt Disney fashion.
But don't expect me to believe it when there is no proof for it.Bring your proof.
Peace.
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The Jinn are human beings.
Jinn are Christians ? Byzantines ? who accepted the Quran Surah 721-18
Jinn are Yahudians ? Persians ? who accepted the Quran Surah 4629-30
Jew and Christian polytheists who lead astray Surah 2105, 2120, 2135, 2140, 367, 395, 3151, 3186, 582, 6106, 6137, 6161, 931-33, 10105, 16120, 2217, 981-6This type of "Aidid Saffar" metaphoric reading of the Quran has one very important aspect shared among its followers "never to take the complete range of verses in the Quran that deal with the subject - as that spoils the forced conclusions".
Here is just one verse, among many, that spoils the fun
728 'And we touched the heavens, but found it full of powerful guards and projectiles.'
729 'And we used to sit in it in places of listening, but anyone who sits now finds a projectile seeking him.'So, through forced metaphoric meaning, we have to accept the Byzantines and Persians had perfected space travel and were suffering from their ships being shot down! I guess Zakaria Schichin would be proud.
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...Now, you are more than welcome to believe in invisible fire spirits, and that Allah sculpted a man out of clay and made him come alive like Pinocchio, and that Prophets (pbut) were able to speak to birds in a Walt Disney fashion.
But don't expect me to believe it when there is no proof for it.Red highlight is from me.
1st See the link below and do not judge people hastily.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602536.msg280134#msg280134
2nd
But hey, I'm the crazy one. Right?
You said it, I did not! ;D
Peace,
Khalil -
This type of "Aidid Saffar" metaphoric reading of the Quran has one very important aspect shared among its followers "never to take the complete range of verses in the Quran that deal with the subject - as that spoils the forced conclusions".
Here is just one verse, among many, that spoils the fun
728 'And we touched the heavens, but found it full of powerful guards and projectiles.'
729 'And we used to sit in it in places of listening, but anyone who sits now finds a projectile seeking him.'So, through forced metaphoric meaning, we have to accept the Byzantines and Persians had perfected space travel and were suffering from their ships being shot down! I guess Zakaria Schichin would be proud.
Allah repeats the messages for those who study. Let's go with the Byzantines first
"We have set in heaven constellations and decked them out fair to the beholders, and guarded them from every accursed Satan excepting such as listens by stealth -- and he is pursued by a manifest flame." Surah 1516-18
The entire book of Revelation - stated as revealed to John of Patmos after the time of Isa (pbuh) and before Muhammad (pbuh) - is littered with astrological references, showing their use of divination by using astronomy. It isn't a revelation, but a rewriting of what Allah revealed to the Prophets (pbut) intermixed with esoteric teachings.
Sagittarius Revelation 10
Then I saw another mighty angel coming down out of heaven. He was wrapped in a cloud and had a rainbow round his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like pillars of fire. He had a small scroll open in his hand. He put his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land.
The verse above is describing Sagittarius standing right through the middle of the traditional Zodiacal chart. At the winter solstice (December 21) the sun is positioned right in the face of Sagittarius, in his hands is a bow that surrounds his head (a rainbow is also known as the ?bow of the sky?). The cloud that is wrapped around Sagittarius represents the element Air (Gemini). His legs which are on fire (Sagittarius) create the symbol for Gemini; pillars. On either side of Gemini; his right foot sits in water, Cancer (Water element) and his left foot stands on land, Taurus (Earth element).
This interpretation of Revelation is no secret either, if you look at the Trump card, Temperance from the ever-popular Rider Waite Tarot deck, you will find an Angel figure (possibly androgynous), with a sun sign on his forehead, his right foot in the water and his left foot on land. It is no coincidence that the Trump card Temperance is attributed to the Zodiacal symbol Sagittarius.Gemini Revelation 11
This verse is describing the Zodiacal symbol Gemini, the narrator is not standing or sitting, the narrator is using his arms and hands to measure the temple and altar; Gemini?s body part is ?arms and hands?. The length of time that the prophecy takes is one thousand, two hundred and sixty days; if you divide 1260 by 3.5 you get 360 days, not a lunar or solar years, but perhaps degrees of a circle; just like the Zodiacal chart. If you travel around the Zodiacal Chart 1260 degrees from the Gemini solstice, you end up right at the top of the other solstice in front of Capricorn, the beast of the abyss. The three and a half years or circles has us exactly on the solstice or 21 December, if the solstice happens at say midday, then the bodies are raised again (three and a half days later) on December 25. The sending of presents to each other is the most famous present giving day in the world; Christmas. It is no surprise that the two witnesses of Revelation are described by the Zodiacal sign represented by two human beings as well as a number (11) that closely resembles two pillars.Virgo/Libra Equinox Revelation 12
Then a great and mysterious sight appeared in the sky. There was a woman, whose dress was the sun and who had the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was soon to give birth, and the pains and suffering of childbirth made her cry out.
Then another sign appeared in heaven an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who ?will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.? And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.The Revelation Chapter 12
The number of stars upon the Crown is a clear reference to the original twelve tribes of Israel; the children of Jacob in the Old Testament. As far as the Old Testament (and some of the New Testament) is concerned these is nothing more Royal than Jacob?s fourth son Judah; who was deemed to hold God?s royal sceptre; Judah will forever be known as the Royal Lion of the Old Testament. As far as the Zodiacal Chart is concerned, there is no more royal symbol than Leo; the resident king of the Zodiac.
The verse above is describing Virgo, just as Nut in Egyptian mythology is outstretched over the entire world, this verse has Virgo stretched out over the entire Zodiacal chart; lying from one end to the other. Her head sits under the Royal Star Regulus in Leo, represented by the crown. Virgo?s body lies over the rest of the symbols; her feet landing on Gemini (air); remembering that she comes out of the sky, which means that the symbol Cancer, the Zodiacal symbol attributed to the ?planet? moon rests neatly under her feet.
The sun on the woman?s dress provides a very specific seasonal insight; the sun reaches the top of Virgo?s dress approximately at the start of the Libran Equinox and it reaches the end of Virgo?s dress approximately at the traditional end of Libra (Time period 22 September ? 23 October). Libra?s body parts include the ovaries; hence the woman is experiencing child birth. Again 1260 days should be converted to degrees and if you swing around 3.5 circles you end up on the other side of the Zodiacal chart, this time Aries. The woman gives birth to a son, who will rule all nations?this is Jesus or the Lamb?Aries.Cancer & Capricorn Solstice Beasts Revelation 13
The water is a clear reference to the Zodiacal Beast Cancer, a water sign. The dragon is a composite of both Cancer and neighbouring Hydra. The seven heads represent the multi headed Hydra and the ten crowns represent the traditional ten limbs of a crab or Cancer. Cancer and Hydra are inexplicably linked in the story of Heracles; the Crab is in fact sent to help Hydra defeat Heracles. And sure enough, Hydra suffers a head wound and it grows back. Again, 42 months represents 3.5 circles from the Cancer Solstice, taking us right up to the opposite solstice; Capricorn. At this point Revelation 13 continues on to explain the Zodiacal symbol Capricorn.
This verse is describing the Zodiacal symbol Capricorn; the beast of the Zodiacal chart that has two horns like a lamb. Capricorn?s element is earth; the beast comes out of the earth. The reference to ?666? is merely a reference to those that worship gods on a Saturday or the Sabbath. They worship the Zodiacal beast Capricorn on Saturdays; confirmed by the planet attributed to Capricorn; Saturn, Saturday is also named after the planet. The most well known religious group that continues to worship on the Sabbath are Jews, their nation?s most recent incarnation formed in 1948 is represented by a stellated hexagon commonly known as the Star of David; a symbolic reference to the Old Testament patriarch King David. A stellated hexagon is formed with a six sided polygon with six vertices at its inner edges and another six vertices formed at its outer points. Its worth noting that recently a mysterious hexagon was photographed at the north polar vortex of Saturn, the image was discovered firstly by NASA? spacecraft Voyager 1 and was later photographed and confirmed by NASA and ESA?s spacecraft Cassini in 2006.Aries/Pisces/Pegasus Equinox Revelation 19
This verse is describing the Pisces/Aries Equinox; physically Pisces is attributed to the feet, in the verses they are symbolized with ?I fell at his feet to worship him, but he said to me "Don't do it!' Pisces is the binding element between the white horse of the sky Pegasus and Aries; Pisces rides the white horse as well as being positioned next to and perpendicular to Aries. The Ram is physically represented by the head and its element is fire which is symbolized by the phrase, ?His eyes were like a flame of fire'.
The Pisces/Aries Equinox is surrounded by two Royal Stars; Aldebaran of Taurus and Formalhaut of Pisces Austrinus (at the foot of Aqurius, hence the traditional spring equinox wears 'many crowns'. The Body of the angel that represents Pisces/Aries Equinox lays over the entire equinox just as the Virgo/Libra character does. The Head of the Angel is represented by the Aries half of the equinox (Aries - body part head) and the feet of the angel wraps around the entire Zodiacal chart finding its feet in the corresponding equinox symbol; Pisces. Therefore the angel stands on top of the horse Pegasus; the sun on Pisces at the equinox (20 March) and the sun exits Pisces and alights the White Horse at the end of Aries approximately at 20 April.Do you want more references from Revelation to show the use of astrological symbols taught by the esoteric mystery schools?
Thank you for pointing out how a person can believe in science, as you point out space travel, but then turn around and mock the idea of Jinn being humans. Which is odd because the people who 'perfected space travel and were shot down' were the Americans. Now there is the belief that the Quran contains layered meanings. Let's test this theory.
What nation is accepting Al-Islam in increasing numbers today? Surah 721
What nation is called a 'Christian Nation', because they believe the Messiah (pbuh) is the son of Allah, and his mother is called Mother of God? Surah 722-3
What nation does the nation of Israel, among other Middle Eastern countries, seek refuge, protection? Surah 725-6
What nation has a group of unbelievers who strive to go into space, striving to reach the moon, even other planets? Surah 727-8
What nation is founded by Freemasons? 729-10
Which nation is founded on religious freedom? Surah 7211
"And that some of us are those who submit, and some of us are the deviators; so whoever submits, these aim at the right way" Surah 7214So you run into a problem If you are striving to say that Jinn perfected space travel, then that shows Jinn are humans.
Allah knows best. )
You are more than welcome to uphold the belief Jinn are spiritual creatures, Layth.
I'm only saying I cannot because there is no proof of it.Peace.
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Some people here always post really long answers. They are requested to write pithily and to the point, so that everyone can follow the discussion.
When pithily is brought to bear, the accusation of allegory is laid.
What you see is the result of years of discussion on the deen of Al-Islam.
You have no obligation to read my words. Your only obligation is to study the Quran diligently.Peace.
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Red highlight is from me.
1st See the link below and do not judge people hastily.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602536.msg280134#msg280134
You also wrote "According to the verses below, among numerous other ones, humans & jinns are two completely different creations, both ESSENTIALLY & CHRONOLOGICALLY"
If humans are not the same thing at an 'essential' level, then Neanderthal and Homo Sapien DNA would be incompatible. Please explain to me what you mean by 'essentially' if they are not of the same nafs, same soul.
I am agreeing on the idea of an evolutionary divergence, but one guided by Allah not by freak chance.
2nd
You said it, I did not! ;DI hear it a lot. "You are crazy!" "You are a madman!"
It must be true.Peace.
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Sure thing. )
Peace.
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You also wrote "According to the verses below, among numerous other ones, humans & jinns are two completely different creations, both ESSENTIALLY & CHRONOLOGICALLY"
If humans are not the same thing at an 'essential' level, then Neanderthal and Homo Sapien DNA would be incompatible. Please explain to me what you mean by 'essentially' if they are not of the same nafs, same soul.
I am agreeing on the idea of an evolutionary divergence, but one guided by Allah not by freak chance.
2nd
You said it, I did not! ;DI hear it a lot. "You are crazy!" "You are a madman!"
It must be true.Peace.
Highlight above is from me.
I mean they are different in ESSENCE, made of two different substances, as we read in verse 712 below.
He said What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.
Peace,
Khalil -
In accordance with Kukumber's wishes, reply given here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602536.msg281864#msg281864
I won't be responding further on this thread.
Peace.
