Pork & Logic
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peace MythozDog,
We have come a long way in 2000 years. It's time to drop the old stigmas surrounding pigs and cook the pork until the trichinosis problem is no longer a concern.
Ahh, so it was because of trichinosis al quran made pig meat restricted? Thanks for the clarification.
wink
Wakas
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I ate pork sometime while I was in spain and also now in france. Its not that bad wink and I also dont feel the guilt...but I am bit confused though. But more this topic is discussed the more I think it will get clear. I think in this matter believe is dominating more rather than logic. I am sure things will clear up but my instinct says pork is not forbidden. But anyway Time will tell.
keep it up bro and sis D
peace
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Peace be upon you all,
Day #2 and I am still amazed.
But what then are these signs telling us?
What is the symbolism of pigs and apes saying?
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Peace be upon you,
Are these signs telling us not to eat meat unless we are forced to by necessity?
It appears we have three main points which are
- dead/decaying flesh,
- pouring blood,
- and rotten stinking something (Khanzeer)
That sounds like all dead animals, they are the foods that bleed.
The God tells us to always go after the the pure nutricious food. WHile we also see a verse saying the cows are used for food by some of us, that would be true due to necessity, but that does not mean we should eat them.
The body eats because it needs the suns energy. PLANTS obtain the suns energy with chloryphl (spelling?). We eat the plants to get that energy from them. The only reason we were suppossed to be eating animals is because they ate the plants and so you could eat them and get the energy out of them, but this would seem to be the least preferred method because the "middle- man" also carries dangers.
Is this message teaching a vegetarian preferred diet, except when forced by necessity?
This is my thoughts out loud, please give all correction.
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Peace be upon you,
Any thoughts?
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Dear idolfree1,
Very interesting thoughts.
This really deserves being looked closer into, as our digestive system actually is much more like the grass/fruit eaters than the carnivorous beings.
Our body is perfectly fit to digest food with rich content of water, and in raw state, like fruits and vegetables.
In order to digest meat, we have to prepare it in certain ways, and our digestive system must slowly be ?acclimatized? to use this as a source of energy. The other beings living off meat, does not need to prepare the meat in any way, it is eaten raw, and as is.A very large part of our various sicknesses are also related to meat, directly, or indirectly.
Now you really get me wondering, is the whole ?pig-thing? just another scam, like so many others?Best regards
Ali Omar
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Peace be upon you Ali Omar,
Very good information you provided. I am almost convinced that this might be the case, we should be vegetarian and should not be eating meat, UNLESS we are forced to by necessity. This makes a lot more sense to me, although it will take a lot of discipline.
Does anyone see any reason why this understanding (vegetarianism) would be incorrect?
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Peace All,
I'm not so sure about the justification for not eating meat. If it was that simple, then surely the guidance would have been as simple.
We are not herbivores, we are omnivores. A baby calf will not eat meat, but a baby human will. Though there is a phenomenon of elk eating birds that is currently understood as a lack of protein in their diets.
Nevertheless, if we were not designed to eat meat, then we wouldn't eat meat. We cook meat because it's safer. We season it because it tastes better. Yet any eskimo will tell you there's nothing wrong with eating raw walrus or whale. Any South Korean will tell you there's nothing wrong with eating live octupus. Any aboriginal Indonesian will tell you there's nothing wrong with eating raw vampire bat.
We are an extremely adaptive species. And this is part of our design.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace,
All creatures of earth, including animals, birds and insects, can be classified as herbivirous or carnivorous. There's nothing wrong in eating meat. Al-Quran is ordained for humans, not for animals, birds and insects. Each have their own systems (Way of Life) to live on.
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Dear all,
I have never heard of any doctor telling a human being, ?Take care of your health; be sure to eat meat every day?.
However, in all reports, and from all nutritionists, I constantly see/hear ?Take care of your health; be sure to eat lots of vegetables and/or fruits every day?.
Do they know something that others do not, or do they just love vegetables and fruits?Human adaptability is not great, but our will to live, is, and therefore we will eat anything that is convenient, and/or can help us survive another day, including human flesh.
This is very different from saying that our digestive system can handle anything. There are numerous side effects from various kinds of things we put in our mouths, and there is no denying that most diseases can be traced back to our consumption of meat. Especially meat not ?properly? prepared, or meat not ?properly? stored etc.
Just another remark, it is found that to produce one chicken it takes ten times more energy than if we ate the grains and seeds directly.As a matter of fact there is also no mention of meat being served in Paradise, whereas gardens, fruits, honey and wine are specifically mentioned.
Also, in the ?well known? case of Adam and Eve it was a certain fruit tree that was of importance.All coincidences?
Anyway, I do not say that we should all be vegetarians, but does anyone think there might be more to the words of God, concerning food, than what we are used to believe?
Can anyone find any pointers, one way or another, in the Qur?an?Best regards
Ali Omar
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Peace be upon you all,
Very good points from everyone. It was pointed out to me that our example Ibrahim served his "guests" a roasted calf. So I don'tthink that we should be strict vegetarians. I cannot gather from the verse thatIbrahim was forced by necessity. But from the science level, as Ali Omar stated, fruits and vegetables are more suited for consumption.
(1819) ...Now send ye then one of you with this money of yours to the town let him find out which is the pure(azka) food and bring some to you, that (ye may) satisfy your hunger therewith...
It seems that while we are allowed meat, we need to make sure that we injest the most pure foods.
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..but Idolfree, this means that you are back to the point before starting this discussion eating animals is allowed, and not only in case of necessity, what happened with the blood, (why do you say "pooring" blood? is that specified in the quran?), with the insistence on fruits?
I have reasons to know that to not eating animals is the correct option, but they are not from the quran but from health and compassionate reasons, I still expect reasons from the Reading. I'll continue looking for them, you have finished very soon!
Peace to everyone.
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Peace be upon you Elena,
Yes, I agree that science shows that a vegetarian diet is superior. But I am far from finished on the issue, just at a loss for a new direction to search. The fact tat Ibrahim offers his "guests" a calf indicates that eating meat is okay without it beig a necessity, but I also see reason that although it is okay to eat, we are to go after the most pure foods.
The blood issue is the part that seems to stick out. We are told eslewhere not to shed blood, but then there is a whole section on wildlife preservation.
sigh!
My Lord increase me in knowledge
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Salaams to all,
nice arguments but obviosly as allways ,and like anygood humans we like to preserve what we believe in strongly and will allways find reasoned arguments to prove the belief right - as the traditionalists.But the truth allways will hurt,lets see what if anything it can be other then the pig.
According to the lanes and the quranic Dictionary
Khanzer = two words, Khanz=Bad/stinking(maggotty)/altered(in ordour).
Er =I see.
What if Khanzer was Bad rooten meat -which obviosly will cause sickness food poisoning and might even kill you especially in those days?
If smeone jumps on the wagon of the ayat where Allah changed people into apes,swine and idol worshippers then
Then i don't have the time now but briefly i did come accross lanes and Q.D
The same word used for the ape also meant Mean,despiccable people.And the word Khanzer also means Obstinate,stupid,proudy people.
Thanks.
salaam mz, all,
i have been following this thread with interest...
i have looked at the occurences of this word 'kh n z r', and, it appears 5 times, in the following verses
2173
53
560
6145
16115i find it interesting that in all four verses, except one (verse 560), this word 'kh n z r' is always preceded by the word '...wa lah ma...', meaning '...and meat...'.
i think the words '...wa lah ma-lkhinziiri...' means '...and meat rotten/bad...', as pointed out by mz.the word probably means 'pig' in the verse 560, when it is used as '...waja'ala minhumu-lqiradata walkhanaaziira...' translated as '...and He turned amongst them apes and pigs...', in reference to God's retribution for the transgressors.
would appreciate your thoughts on this...
thanks and peace.
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i think the words '...wa lah ma-lkhinziiri...' means '...and meat rotten/bad...', as pointed out by mz.
Peace rossi,
I think your statement is wrong according to arabic grammar."meat rotten/bad" in arabic using "khinzir" as rotten would sound like "lahmoun khiziroun".
Or "the rotten meat" -->"allahmou alkinzirou"
Instead, in the arabic verses, there's "lahma alkhinzir" which translates as "meat of the khinzir", still to define what khinzir is.
The way "alkhinzir" is used in the verses shows that it cannot be an adjective for "meat".
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i think the words '...wa lah ma-lkhinziiri...' means '...and meat rotten/bad...', as pointed out by mz.
Peace rossi,
I think your statement is wrong according to arabic grammar."meat rotten/bad" in arabic using "khinzir" as rotten would sound like "lahmoun khiziroun".
Or "the rotten meat" -->"allahmou alkinzirou"
Instead, in the arabic verses, there's "lahma alkhinzir" which translates as "meat of the khinzir", still to define what khinzir is.
The way "alkhinzir" is used in the verses shows that it cannot be an adjective for "meat".
what about the word 'wa-lkhanaaziira' in 560, what does this word mean?
peace.
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Dear rossi,
Just a thought off the top of my head, could the words in verse 5.60, refer to something in the direction of ?soulless minds and decaying bodies (or flesh)??
A human being in that state would indeed be despicable.
Should we leave any specific animal out of it, as God has created all animals, and not anything despicable?
Mind you, I?m still just trying, and looking for answers.
Best regards
Ali Omar
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Bismillah Walhamdulillah Was Salaatu Was Salaam 'ala Rasulillah. Following text give you reasons why Allah (SWT) has forbidden eating pork. There are many other reasons which we do not know of but ALLAH (SWT) knows.
"You are what you eat" - Native American proverb
In folklore terms, eating the meat of the pig is said to contribute to lack of morality and shame, plus greed for wealth, laziness, indulgence, dirtiness and gluttony. We insult a person by calling him or her a "Pig" when they demonstrate these characteristics. Muslims are forbidden by God to eat the meat of the pig (pork).
This is detailed in verses 2173, 53, 6145, and 16115 of the Qur'an. An exemplary verse is quoted here "He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Is Pork Forbidden to Muslims Only?
The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 148
Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste of pig-meat. Many excuses have been given, but none are very sound.
Many Far Eastern traditions also discourage the eating of pork. The 3,000 year old Confucian Book of Rites says, "Agentleman does not eat the flesh of pigs and dogs." Although many Chinese are avid eaters of pork today, physicians of ancient China recognized pork-eating as the root of many human ailments. Buddhists, Jains and Hindus usually avoid eating any kind of meat.
Bad effects of pork consumption
Pig's bodies contain many toxins, worms and latent diseases. Although some of these infestations are harbored in other animals, modern veterinarians say that pigs are far more predisposed to these illnesses than other animals. This could be because pigs like to scavenge and will eat any kind of food, including dead insects, worms, rotting carcasses, excreta (including their own), garbage, and other pigs.
Influenza (flu) is one of the most famous illnesses which pigs share with humans. This illness is harbored in the lungs of pigs during the summer months and tends to affect pigs and humans in the cooler months. Sausage contains bits of pigs' lungs, so those who eat pork sausage tend to suffer more during epidemics of influenza. Pig meat contains excessive quantities of histamine and imidazole compounds, which can lead to itching and inflammation; growth hormone, which promotes inflammation and growth; sulphur-containing mesenchymal mucus, which leads to swelling and deposits of mucus in tendons and cartilage, resulting in arthritis, rheumatism, etc.
Sulfur helps cause firm human tendons and ligaments to be replaced by the pig's soft mesenchymal tissues, and degeneration of human cartilage. Eating pork can also lead to gallstones and obesity, probably due to its high cholesterol and saturated fat content. The pig is the main carrier of the taenia solium worm, which is found it its flesh. These tapeworms are found in human intestines with greater frequency in nations where pigs are eaten. This type of tapeworm can pass through the intestines and affect many other organs, and is incurable once it reaches beyond a certain stage. One in six people in the US and Canada has trichinosis from eating trichina worms which are found in pork. Many people have no symptoms to warn them of this, and when they do, they resemble symptoms of many other illnesses. These worms are not noticed during meat inspections, nor are they killed by salting or smoking. Few people cook the meat long enough to kill the trichinae. The rat (another scavenger) also harbors this disease. There are dozens of other worms, germs, diseases and bacteria which are commonly found in pigs, many of which are specific to the pig, or found in greater frequency in pigs.
Pigs are biologically similar to humans, and their meat is said to taste similar to human flesh. Pigs have been used for dissection in biology labs due to the similarity between their organs and human organs. People with insulin-dependent diabetes usually inject themselves with pig insulin.
Kindness to animals
Every creature was created by Allah for a purpose. The Prophet always encouraged being kind to animals. Although we should not eat the meat of the pig, it doesn't mean that we should hate pigs. We should show them the same kindness as any other animal, and not abuse or torture them. Pigs score high on tests devised to determine animal intelligence; in other words, they are very smart. It used to be that Europe people believed that pork would taste better if the pigs were kept in a state of filth, but this is not the natural inclination of the pig. When left to their own devices, it is said that pigs do not like to soil their sleeping quarters. As for their tendency to wallow in mud, that is done mainly to keep cool.
