Jinn: What's the point of mentioning them in the Qur'an at all?
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Salam,
As thus the statement of "Islamic world is running backwards" is a fallacy, a more appropriate statement should be Middle eastern world is running backwards because they fell into dogmatic sectarian culture...
Hmm, some words of wisdom there. Yes, you are kind of right and your sentence is more closer to the truth than mine. bravo
However, the reason I chose a broader generalized term is because, if you look at Indonesia and Bangladesh alone, you have more than 300million muslims, just in those 2 NON-middle eastern countries. As for me, it all comes back to Hadith-based world...lol, not Islamic, neither middle-eastern.
Allah knows what Jinns are, but I am kind a looking forward to decoding that with Allah's permission
PEACE
--------------------- Student of Allah
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Good news - It has absolutely nothing to do with my way of life, let them be plain humans or demons.
---------------------------------- Student of AllahStudent of Allah, I feel the same way--they have NOTHING to do with my way of life either and i think majority of people would say the same. And that's exactly why i was wondering, why even introduce the subject in the Qur'an if these beings have nothing to do with us? There must be some other reason/significance for them that we're not seeing at the moment. My question is, what is this significance?
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Peace all,
From a previous discussion WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE OTHER THAN...HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8469.msg41678;topicseen#msg41678
In 6131, the word used is "al-ins" which is the singular form of "an-nass" present in 2273, with the help of the verse 1146, we can see this clearly.
Please note that "ins" is different from "insaane", and "jin" is different from "jaan" (as in 1527). My view is that "ins" and "jin" are two psychological aspects of the humans "bashar", some humans are more enclined to the aspect "ins" thus called "insaane", the others are more enclined to the "jin" aspect and thus called "jaan".
It's hard to distinguish between those words when reading a translation because translators generally translate "ins" "annas" and "insaane" and "bashar" as the same, which is confusing and sometimes leads to contradictions.
In my view,
Insaan refers to an extrovert person that prefers to be in community with other persons, and mixes well in social situations. Insaan comes from root alif-noun-seen, which means to socialise. An-naas is the plural of al-insaane.Jaan refers to an introvert or reserved person that prefers to be away from the crowd (and the eyes). Al-jinnatoo is the the plural of al-jaan.
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In my opinion the "jinns' are gas/fluid based sentient being who lived here on earth among us. (hint Smokeless fire, look around you where you can see smokeless fire, it's up there, the sun, and the sun is one huge ball of gas, mostly of hydrogen)
The 'jinns' true nature are not (yet) revealed to human, perhaps for good reasons..
Imagine what will happen then... human shall enslaved them.. hunt them towards extinction.... look what happened to the whale, lions, rhinos and other 'endangered' species!
For the sake of the 'jinns' it's much better that they remained 'concealed' (from human)Jafar, let's assume you are right and they are "gas/fluid based sentient beings" -- how then do you interpret Solomon's as army being made of of Jinn (ch 27)... was it like an army of "ghosts"??? I find that hard to believe.
"The 'jinns' true nature are not (yet) revealed to human" -- it sure was revealed to Solomon and he was human. We see tons of other examples in he Quran where humans interact with them. The people of Solomon's time sure were familiar with them if he had a whole army of Jinn working for him. Were his human soldiers not aware that they were standing next to "gas/fluid based sentient beings"?? They certainly didn't make a bid deal out of it.
And that's what bugs me about this issue. The Quran is full of instances where humans interact with Jinn, Solomon being just one example, so if they are these invisible / spirits / ghost-like entities that are SO RARELY seen by humans, why is it that nobody took note of them? Surely, if we in today's time encountered a society of talking bears or hobbits or elves, naturally we would react to them with fear/interest and somebody would take note of it. This is human nature. But that never happens in the Quran. Nobody reacts to them as they would if they were some kind of ghosts or any other unusual creature. And where are they now, how come nobody sees them anymore?
This is why i don't think we have the correct understanding of what these things are. I believe they are present today as they were at Solomon's age, we just don't know what they are and therefore cannot recognize them.
And i'm not even interested in what they are so much, i'm more concerned with why did God even mention them in the Quran if they have nothing to do with us?? In other words, I'm interested in why do we need to know of them more than what they are.
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Peace all,
From a previous discussion WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE OTHER THAN...HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8469.msg41678;topicseen#msg41678
In 6131, the word used is "al-ins" which is the singular form of "an-nass" present in 2273, with the help of the verse 1146, we can see this clearly.
Please note that "ins" is different from "insaane", and "jin" is different from "jaan" (as in 1527). My view is that "ins" and "jin" are two psychological aspects of the humans "bashar", some humans are more enclined to the aspect "ins" thus called "insaane", the others are more enclined to the "jin" aspect and thus called "jaan".
It's hard to distinguish between those words when reading a translation because translators generally translate "ins" "annas" and "insaane" and "bashar" as the same, which is confusing and sometimes leads to contradictions.
In my view,
Insaan refers to an extrovert person that prefers to be in community with other persons, and mixes well in social situations. Insaan comes from root alif-noun-seen, which means to socialise. An-naas is the plural of al-insaane.Jaan refers to an introvert or reserved person that prefers to be away from the crowd (and the eyes). Al-jinnatoo is the the plural of al-jaan.
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Truth Seeker,
This is another interesting take on it, but if Jinn are just the type of people who 'keep to themselves'--they're still people/human, why does the Quran say "people and Jinn", "humans and Jinn", "mankind and Jinn" such as, "i will fill hell with mankind and Jinn"? There it implies that Jinn are separate entities from humans/people/mankind, does it not? So Jinn cannot mean a type of human but something other than human.
Again, I don't speak Arabic, if you do, you'd probably be a better judge of what the Quran says and feel free to correct me. ) -
Salaam,
the birth of the family of Adam emerged from Jinn, a Jinn in the modern world is described as a clinical psychopath, a psychopath is born, you cannot become a psychopath only a socio-path if you are of the family of Adam, a psychopath cannot be cured, they remain without higher emotions from birth until death, their mental state is hidden (Jinn) from us, they look and often act just as a man/woman of the family of Adam does.
If two Jinn have offspring they are Jinn, if a Jinn and the family of Adam have offspring they are the family of Adam, naturally 1 in a thousand children from the family of Adam are born Jinn, but the Jinn know what they are, while we the family of Adam remain oblivious, if you have no empathy, conscience or guilt is is easy to rise into position of authority over the family of Adam, so in the modern world 13 families of Jinn rule all the family of Adam, these 13 families inter-marry and maintain the purety of their bloodlines through rituals and secret societies, they perform acts that would expose a member of the family of Adam, but would be no problem to a Jinn.
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Student of Allah, I feel the same way--they have NOTHING to do with my way of life either and i think majority of people would say the same. And that's exactly why i was wondering, why even introduce the subject in the Qur'an if these beings have nothing to do with us? There must be some other reason/significance for them that we're not seeing at the moment. My question is, what is this significance?
Significance to whom? To you or to whatever/whomever the jinns are?
The text is intended to be studied vigorously, in my opinion, if one is up for the challenge. It is by no means a precursor of or to salvation. I don't know about you, but I like a good puzzle, and once you solve it once, what would be the point of returning to it again and again? There'd be no challenge, it'd be boring. I like me a challenge, personally.
As stated previously, one meaning can't 'fit' in all occurrences, logistically.
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However, the reason I chose a broader generalized term is because, if you look at Indonesia and Bangladesh alone, you have more than 300million muslims, just in those 2 NON-middle eastern countries. As for me, it all comes back to Hadith-based world...lol, not Islamic, neither middle-eastern.
Allah knows what Jinns are, but I am kind a looking forward to decoding that with Allah's permission
PEACE
--------------------- Student of Allah
LOL.. very true...
However, I've visited Indonesia, Bali to be exact, and I'm delightfully surprised on the tolerance level of the communities there.. A thriving Hindu communities within sunni's majority country. The sectarians have done a 'lousy' job there.. It's not that they haven't tried (as I heard about some bombings in Bali done by the sunni's extremist).
In Indonesia I see hope for thriving tolerant secular culture within sunni's dominated society... really a role model...
Sectarianism has split India into three countries who hate each other guts (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) which is saddening. The tension among sects there are quite high..
Salam / Peace
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Jafar, let's assume you are right and they are "gas/fluid based sentient beings" -- how then do you interpret Solomon's as army being made of of Jinn (ch 27)... was it like an army of "ghosts"??? I find that hard to believe.
Apparently it was... an army of 'gas sentient beings'..
"The 'jinns' true nature are not (yet) revealed to human" -- it sure was revealed to Solomon and he was human.
You're right.. it was revealed to Solomon...
Here's the catalog on the species of those 'gas sentient beings'.. although perhaps this is not the complete catalog of all 'gas sentient beings' living on earth..Testament Of Solomon (Although there are doubt whether it is actually Solomon who wrote this)
http//www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/testamen.htm
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_SolomonWe see tons of other examples in he Quran where humans interact with them. The people of Solomon's time sure were familiar with them if he had a whole army of Jinn working for him. Were his human soldiers not aware that they were standing next to "gas/fluid based sentient beings"?? They certainly didn't make a bid deal out of it.
Perhaps they do aware or not .. we don't know...
And that's what bugs me about this issue. The Quran is full of instances where humans interact with Jinn, Solomon being just one example, so if they are these invisible / spirits / ghost-like entities that are SO RARELY seen by humans, why is it that nobody took note of them?
The notes / record / story of 'interaction with gas/fluid based sentient beings' are everywhere among any cultures in the world in myriad of books. The gospel also contains stories of Jesus performing 'exorcism' and a whole lot more...
Surely, if we in today's time encountered a society of talking bears or hobbits or elves, naturally we would react to them with fear/interest and somebody would take note of it. This is human nature. But that never happens in the Quran. Nobody reacts to them as they would if they were some kind of ghosts or any other unusual creature. And where are they now, how come nobody sees them anymore?
Many people still 'see' them of course...
This is why i don't think we have the correct understanding of what these things are. I believe they are present today as they were at Solomon's age, we just don't know what they are and therefore cannot recognize them.
They are present today.. and you're right we just don't know EXACTLY what they are, perhaps for a good reason..
And i'm not even interested in what they are so much, i'm more concerned with why did God even mention them in the Quran if they have nothing to do with us?? In other words, I'm interested in why do we need to know of them more than what they are.
This one is still a mystery....
Yet the Quran really validate that such 'gas/fluid based sentient beings' does exist...And from the hint found in the Quran (made from smokeless fire), I can hypothesize that such entity which is known by the name of Jinn, Ghost, Gosuto, Gui, Bhuta is infact a 'gas/fluid based sentient beings'.. which show us that not all 'sentient beings' were made of carbon / solid materials..
Perhaps...... there are beings living in other planet who are actually made of gas/fluid as well..
Given... not all planet does have a solid surface.. (i.e. Jupiter and Saturn was made of gas)Again perhaps.. it is told in the Quran because the people back then worship those 'gas/sentient beings' as gods.. that's essentially what 'pagan idol worshiping' culture does.. make an idol (statue made of solid materials) for them and grant them 'offerings', and it's not unusual to offer 'human' as offering for them as well.. a habit known as 'human sacrifice'.
Salam / Peace
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Peace be upon you all,
It has been a while since I have posted here so bear with me.
The mention of "jinn" is extremely important and crucial to your success in life.
First, religion and religious teachings deal with BEHAVIOR SHAPING. This is their goal. Please take some time to think on that first.
The tools given to man to shape her behavior are your HIDDEN faculties of thought (both verbal and pictorial images).
The things/ideas/concepts that you constantly think about shape your future, and thanks to the Mercy of God, we have full control of these faculties, however many do not take this seriously.
How often do you have a problem, for example with your spouse, and you IMAGINE all day the scenario of how it will be when you get home to them...you picture them pushing your button and see yourself responding a certain way. And you engage in this IMAGE hidden in your mind all day long.
This is what brings these things to fruition. You are made in the likeness of God and you likewise are a creator (on a smaller scale).
So getting back to the point, your hidden thoughts/images are jinn. Of your hidden thoughts, some are correct/righteous thoughts and images, others are wicked.
If we cultivate the proper thoughts/images, then our nafs(subconcious) will become purified(zakaa) , if we corrupt the nafs(subconcious), we fail.
The negative thoughts/images that we feed our nafs drive us to do wrong, they are called shayteen.
Thoughts/images are tied in with our emotions(energy in motion), and thus gives the understanding of fiery.
It's been a while since I spoke about this so forgive me for not being as clear as I could, I look forward to discussing this with anyone who is interested.
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Peace be upon you,
Also wanted to mention that the garden, comes from the same root as your hidden thoughts......
The garden is the peaceful state of correct thinking/imagining that will spill over into your dreams(you will live righteously even in your dreams when you purify(zakaat) your subconcious(nafs) by programming(salaat) it with the proper thoughts/images.
Death is likened to sleep....so do not think al jinn are not important, they are of utmost importance because they are your tools of salvation, that is why they are mentioned.
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Peace be upon you,
thoughts are the seeds in your garden
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Just some little catch
Doesn't it say in the Qur'an that there is nothing like him
I think you meant 1124, yes.
and that whatever you think is God, is not?
Where does it say so? It's very problematic when you put it that way, you see, e.g.
A I think God is Al-Rahman, Al-Rahim.
B No, God is not Al-Rahman, Al-Rahim (because whatever you think is God, is not)("Only a Sith deals in absolutes" as Obi-Wan says... in an absolute way)
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Peace be upon you amuslim,
Where does the Qur'an say that we were made in God's image?
3030 So keep up your face/front to the religion, (as) a submitter/Moslem/Unifier of God , God's nature which He created/originated the people on it, (there is) no replacement/substitution to God's creation, that (is) the religion the straight/valuable , and but most of the people do not know.
What exactly is God's image anyhow?
The "image" or pattern upon which we were created is a PEACE(salaam) that nothing can disturb. Peace is our true divine nature. That is why the system of God is described as islam, and this is why we greet those who are with us with Peace be upon you. We are God's and to God we are returning!
Do you enjoy stress? Is not stress the opposite of a healthy prosperous life? The truth is there is nothing in life that has the power to respond emotionally, we always have the ability to respond with Peace to all events.
Doesn't it say in the Qur'an that there is nothing like him and that whatever you think is God, is not?
Yes, The God is the UNSEEN. It is That which perceives but Itself cannot be perceived. God is the ANTI MATTER that creates matter. All matter is made of atoms...electrons, protons, and neutrons. Everything! All matter vibrates, moves. These are the laws of matter. God is energy at rest, therefore unformed, therefore cannot be divided because how can you divide that which is not matter?
This is the PEACE that we are to attain, the STILLNESS where God may talk to us. This is the Nirvana of Hinduism. Nir=not Vana=moving. This is the Hetep of ancient Egypt. This is the Shalom of Judiasm. Jesus taught to greet "Peace be with you". This is the Salaam of this reading(quran).....and so on
How would the world be if people programmed thier spirits to respond with peace rather than emotion(energy in motion)?
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the trick is , when the JINN came to hear the quran, and they went back to their people.
they make it sound as if the messenger didn't see them because they can't be seen
but in reality , if you read carefully, Jinn people came to hear the quran in town, while the messenger wasn't there , or people didn't recognise them, as ordinary people do, they go to other towns fo tourism etc... they heard from other people and went back home, as nomal as possible, possible on horses, or on a ship etccc.Jinn are humans , normal people, they were people of the north, propably british, irish etc... created from NAR , maybe meaning north , in frensh nort .
in the kabale, they call themselves in frensh les GENS , in english GENTS.
people who has the art to inflitrate , like spys , the word AGENT is a driviate of the arabic JINN. secret societies ae JIN , because we can't see them, and can't point who they are.
Jin came from the word Hidden , like ajinna in the woumb, meaning, when we were in the woumbs of our mothers, we were ajinna, singular jinn.
every sexret service, spys etc are jinn , AGENTS.
until today, the highest Jinn are the british, americans isrealis etc... they are spys higher then any man from the south
allah knows best -
the trick is , when the JINN came to hear the quran, and they went back to their people.
they make it sound as if the messenger didn't see them because they can't be seen
but in reality , if you read carefully, Jinn people came to hear the quran in town, while the messenger wasn't there , or people didn't recognise them, as ordinary people do, they go to other towns fo tourism etc... they heard from other people and went back home, as nomal as possible, possible on horses, or on a ship etccc.Jinn are humans , normal people, they were people of the north, propably british, irish etc... created from NAR , maybe meaning north , in frensh nort .
in the kabale, they call themselves in frensh les GENS , in english GENTS.
people who has the art to inflitrate , like spys , the word AGENT is a driviate of the arabic JINN. secret societies ae JIN , because we can't see them, and can't point who they are.
Jin came from the word Hidden , like ajinna in the woumb, meaning, when we were in the woumbs of our mothers, we were ajinna, singular jinn.
every sexret service, spys etc are jinn , AGENTS.
until today, the highest Jinn are the british, americans isrealis etc... they are spys higher then any man from the south
allah knows bestWhat about the verse that says
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What about the verse that says
JINN wa INSS , doesn't mean automatiquely 2 separate entities,
exemple, god sent alquran wa almizan , it doesn't mean there are 2 things, but the quran is the Mozan
or god sent al kitab wa alhikmah, this also means that al kitab is alhikma
anzala al kitab wa al furquan , on thing
anzala kitab wa mizane , one thing
exemple, kitab aw mizan, also one thing, call it kitab or call it al mizanAl INSS wa Al Jinn are the two descriptions on AL Inssan.
the apparent is what we see in hulmans, the hidden is everything else that we don't see, like our thoughts, or secret societies , or spys
JINN = Hidden
before we born, we ae JINN, pluiel AJINNA while in our woumb, cuse we're hidden.
this is how far I understood these words, the JINN