Righteous work! why no one is talking about it?
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Peace,
One needs to be careful with charity. Many of these charities (cancer reasearch, etc.) practice on animals. That isn't Islamic what they do to fellow Muslims, it is quite the opposite. Similarly with giving to food banks, the slaughter of these animals are also unIslamic. I give to charity too, but that is something that I have to keep in mind. Giving money may sound good at first, but there are many other factors you need to take into consideration. Remember United Way and the scandals over the years? Buying houses with donation money? Also, some people give money to homeless people. Sometimes this makes them more dependent on other people, which worsens their situation.
Basically, the act of giving is not the only part of the charity. As far as why we don't talk about it, we all know that this is compulsory. Seems like many posts on this forum are due to disagreements over certain aspects of Islam. A lot of people here are so quick to judge and easily resort to degrading others. Everyone here thinks that they are on the right path or that their interpretation is right, so this is what keeps the forums going.
Peace
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Peace amuslim
I do agree with you that we need to have done very sound research before we donate money or time to charities. While, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, I would like to see some proof on experimentation on animals for medical research as being "unIslamic". Would you then (god willing you will stay healthy all your life), not use a treatment out there that existed because you know it would not have existed without animal research. Here I am thinking of something very commonly used like insulin, the discovery of which happened after the sacrifice of about a hundred dogs. (I seriously doubt any ethics board would approve this, in this day and time, but back in the 1930's or so no one batted an eyelid)
Also many of us here do not buy into the standard definition and practice of "halal" slaughter as being righteous. Further, food security is a very essential component of any healthy community. If there are certain foods you don't want your money to have bought, you can always buy food and donate that, rather than money. Personally, it breaks my heart to know that people and children in my community go to bed hungry.
Also, why do you say it is compulsory to not talk about giving to charity? Just asking, coz I have never heard that before.
I also absolutely disagree with you when you say giving money to homeless people makes them dependent and this worsens their situation. We cannot sum the complex problem of homelessness into a simple sentence. I give to the homeless on the street for two reasons. First, so they can continue to maintain some sense of hope, that not everyone has given up on them. Second, there is almost always some complex mental health/addiction type issue going on, and addiction is an illness, and just like any other. The homeless are obviously not getting treatment for it. Whether, they use the money for coffee, alcohol, cigarettes or something else, they need something to control their withdrawal symptoms.
Further, I do not see what the problems with disagreements are. While there are a few on here, who have to be right no matter what, most of us respect each others differing opinions, realize there are multiple interpretations, and multiple paths. Our interest in knowing these different interpretations is what keeps these forums going, nor our incessant need to argue until we are proven right.
Sorry, if you feel like I completely mutilated your post, or i misunderstood something you were saying.
Kukumber.
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One needs to be careful with charity. Many of these charities (cancer reasearch, etc.) practice on animals. That isn't Islamic what they do to fellow Muslims, it is quite the opposite.
Are you calling animals 'fellow Muslims'?
Similarly with giving to food banks, the slaughter of these animals are also unIslamic.
Please explain the 'unIslamic slaughter of animals' at food banks. This is the first I have heard of animals being slaughtered at food banks, much less 'unIslamic slaughter'.
Do you have proof to support this claim? I would like to know this considering the food bank I give charity to relies heavily on food already processed, and the funds to purchase food that is canned or packaged already.I give to charity too, but that is something that I have to keep in mind. Giving money may sound good at first, but there are many other factors you need to take into consideration. Remember United Way and the scandals over the years? Buying houses with donation money? Also, some people give money to homeless people. Sometimes this makes them more dependent on other people, which worsens their situation.
Please read the Quran.
?Those who point at such of the believers as give the (sadaqah) alms voluntarily and such as can find naught to give but their strivings (juhd hum), and deride them Allah (Himself) derideth them. Theirs will be a painful doom.? Surah 979
Judge according by what Allah revealed, but do not withhold what Allah provides out of fear of how they spend it. What they do with it is not your concern, nor is their guidance.
?Their guidance is not thy duty, but Allah guides whom He pleases. And whatever good thing you spend, it is to your good. And you spend not but to seek Allah?s pleasure. And whatever good you spend, it will be paid back to you in full, and you will not be wronged, it being for the poor who are restrained in the way of God, and are unable to journey in the land; the ignorant man supposes them rich because of their abstinence, but thou shalt know them by their mark -- they do not beg of men importunately. And whatever good you expend, surely God has knowledge of it.? Surah 2272
We will only be asked what we did, we won't be asked what others did.
?Behold! you are those who are called upon to spend in Allah's way, but among you are those who are miserly, and whoever is miserly is miserly against his own soul; and Allah is Self-sufficient and you have need, and if you turn back He will bring in your place another people, then they will not be like you.? Surah 4738
Peace.
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Peae kukumber and ragining,
Peace amuslim
I do agree with you that we need to have done very sound research before we donate money or time to charities. While, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, I would like to see some proof on experimentation on animals for medical research as being "unIslamic". Would you then (god willing you will stay healthy all your life), not use a treatment out there that existed because you know it would not have existed without animal research. Here I am thinking of something very commonly used like insulin, the discovery of which happened after the sacrifice of about a hundred dogs. (I seriously doubt any ethics board would approve this, in this day and time, but back in the 1930's or so no one batted an eyelid)
Its like saying if the Nazis found cures by doing experiments on people, would you not use it? Of course you would. They are no longer testing it on the animals (or in my example people) in order to find the cure. If the cure is "found" then by all means use it.
Also many of us here do not buy into the standard definition and practice of "halal" slaughter as being righteous. Further, food security is a very essential component of any healthy community. If there are certain foods you don't want your money to have bought, you can always buy food and donate that, rather than money. Personally, it breaks my heart to know that people and children in my community go to bed hungry.
So, we can torture animals, ween them from their parents, and treat them as property? That doesn't sound Islamic to me. Now, I am not talking about halal food (traditional sense) whatsoever. If you kill an animal, it should be where the animal doesn't needlessly suffer.
In America, corporations try to make money the easiest way possible. How you think they do that? Obviously the care of the animals is of no importance. Cram them into small pens, inject growth hormones, etc.
Now I am vegan but I am not against eating meat or milk. At least take care of them, people are quite arrogant.
Also, why do you say it is compulsory to not talk about giving to charity? Just asking, coz I have never heard that before.
I never said that. What I said was that in Islam, it is quite obvious to give charity. However on these boards, people are more concerned about proving their point of interpretation. No one disagrees that charity is important, therefore it stays on the back burner. Should we just praise our works? That's quite meaningless.
I also absolutely disagree with you when you say giving money to homeless people makes them dependent and this worsens their situation. We cannot sum the complex problem of homelessness into a simple sentence. I give to the homeless on the street for two reasons. First, so they can continue to maintain some sense of hope, that not everyone has given up on them. Second, there is almost always some complex mental health/addiction type issue going on, and addiction is an illness, and just like any other. The homeless are obviously not getting treatment for it. Whether, they use the money for coffee, alcohol, cigarettes or something else, they need something to control their withdrawal symptoms.
Further, I do not see what the problems with disagreements are. While there are a few on here, who have to be right no matter what, most of us respect each others differing opinions, realize there are multiple interpretations, and multiple paths. Our interest in knowing these different interpretations is what keeps these forums going, nor our incessant need to argue until we are proven right.
Sorry, if you feel like I completely mutilated your post, or i misunderstood something you were saying.
Kukumber.
I stated the homeless person issue because people automatically think it is a good thing to give to any homeless/pen handler on the street. I use the same example with tithe (Christian). They give to the church thinking that they are doing a good deed. In many cases, tithe goes to pay the minister, make the church bigger, etc. instead of what people thought it was going to, such as the needy.
Now I am not saying not to give to homeless people but you need to use your brain when you are doing it. Some people continue to remain in their position because they are dependent on others (welfare, free housing, pen handling, etc.) and giving them more does not help the situation. If you look at America, this is a big problem. If you "help" these people and they continue to live their lifestyle like that, then that makes you just as guilty. Its the same with parents giving their drugged up kids money, its enabling.
Are you calling animals 'fellow Muslims'?
Do they not submit to God?
Please explain the 'unIslamic slaughter of animals' at food banks. This is the first I have heard of animals being slaughtered at food banks, much less 'unIslamic slaughter'.
Do you have proof to support this claim? I would like to know this considering the food bank I give charity to relies heavily on food already processed, and the funds to purchase food that is canned or packaged already.Refer above
Please read the Quran.
?Those who point at such of the believers as give the (sadaqah) alms voluntarily and such as can find naught to give but their strivings (juhd hum), and deride them Allah (Himself) derideth them. Theirs will be a painful doom.? Surah 979
Judge according by what Allah revealed, but do not withhold what Allah provides out of fear of how they spend it. What they do with it is not your concern, nor is their guidance.
?Their guidance is not thy duty, but Allah guides whom He pleases. And whatever good thing you spend, it is to your good. And you spend not but to seek Allah?s pleasure. And whatever good you spend, it will be paid back to you in full, and you will not be wronged, it being for the poor who are restrained in the way of God, and are unable to journey in the land; the ignorant man supposes them rich because of their abstinence, but thou shalt know them by their mark -- they do not beg of men importunately. And whatever good you expend, surely God has knowledge of it.? Surah 2272
We will only be asked what we did, we won't be asked what others did.
?Behold! you are those who are called upon to spend in Allah's way, but among you are those who are miserly, and whoever is miserly is miserly against his own soul; and Allah is Self-sufficient and you have need, and if you turn back He will bring in your place another people, then they will not be like you.? Surah 4738
Peace.
Again refer above.
It's good to point to the Qur'an but at the same time, you need to use those verses in order to explain things not specifically mentioned in the Qur'an. Animals are communities like we are, right? God provides for his creation, correct? Why do we (humans) feel that we can do whatever we want to them? That is what is unIslamic.
Peace
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Salams to all, (provided that salams are not bida, inshallah)
I just wanted to say that I would agree with the notion that small acts of kindness are extremely important. I also think it is true that a muslim should be humble, and so be as charitable in secret as one is in the open, if not more.
Having said that, I would like to add something, possibly someone here could explain something that I have always been curious about I have been quietly lurking around here for some time, and have rarely posted much, but I love the site and indeed I once received some much needed moral support here, something for which I am still thankful, alhamdulillah.
At the same time I sometimes log on here and find myself bored with the endless discusions about whether Muslims should pray or not, or why the holy Qur'an does tell us this, or does not tell us that. I think that sometimes I feel as though something I am not seeing here is an active (let alone activist) religious community. One that does righteous work as a conscious, intentional collective of believers. (in the message of the Qur'an)
I first discovered this site when i Googled "Progressive Muslims" and ended up at the Progressive Muslim site which was purportedly a site for ACTION, and there I found a link here. Now, I have read around here some, and have been impressed by the intensity of many of the discussions, and the obvious intellect of most of the major contributors at Free Minds. I have read the constitution here, and the Monotheist Group translation of the Qur'an has become the one I refer to the most. I am just curious about whether there is actually a real life movement around this perspective (i.e. the MG's Qur'anic orientation within Al Islam)??? The other site referred to above says it is for ACTION, but there does not seem to be much action going on there these days. I checked under the "completed tasks" tab there and saw that the most recent "completed tasks" were the translation and the constitution... in 2003, eight years ago.Is anything going on?
Salams, Respect, Sisters and Brothers.
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Salaam all,
Similarly with giving to food banks, the slaughter of these animals are also unIslamic.
As far as I know , the majority of food banks provide non-perishable food, meaning food that have longer shelf-life, such as grains, beans, seeds, dried food etc. Animal products such as meat, eggs and seafood are undesirable because they go off quickly.
Also, some people give money to homeless people. Sometimes this makes them more dependent on other people, which worsens their situation.
The issue that many people have when it comes to charity is scepticism. We keep questioning whether our charity will go the right way, and we end up not giving at all. We also have this pre-conceived view that most homeless people are drug addicts. That may be the case for some, but a good number of homeless people actually struggle to sustain their lives. Disregarding their existence based on the circumstances of homeless drug addicts is quite unfair.
I think when it comes to homeless people, you can help them by volunteering for street services where they provide food for the homeless. I believe that it is more productive. Besides from volunteering, you can provide the homeless with companionship, which will help them gain a sense of ?belonging?. Bear in mind that homeless people are marginalised from the society. Our negative attitude or apathy towards them will not resolve the problems. So if you don?t feel comfortable with giving them money, then volunteer your time or donate food to the street services.
It is true that you may make them dependent upon your help. Either that, or you?ll leave them starving. It is not as easy as saying ?get a job?, because many are genuinely trying to get a job but the society just won?t give them a chance.
Everyone here thinks that they are on the right path or that their interpretation is right, so this is what keeps the forums going
I will have to disagree with that statement. I have personally talked, or even met, with the members of this forum, and I can say that most don?t have that attitude. Seeking knowledge is what they?re striving for and they?re always open to criticism, and it?s a pity that you fail to see that.
And be careful when you say ?everyone?.
So, we can torture animals, ween them from their parents, and treat them as property? That doesn't sound Islamic to me. Now, I am not talking about halal food (traditional sense) whatsoever. If you kill an animal, it should be where the animal doesn't needlessly suffer.
In America, corporations try to make money the easiest way possible. How you think they do that? Obviously the care of the animals is of no importance. Cram them into small pens, inject growth hormones, etc.
You have to differentiate between commercial corporations and non-profit organization. A good number of credible NGOs actually distribute ethical products, such as organically grown products. Some notable organizations help the local farmers to grow their own produce organically, and assist them to be involved in fair-trade practices. The key is to know who you?re trusting your money to.
However on these boards, people are more concerned about proving their point of interpretation.
This is an academic forum, where people discuss or argue on belief systems as well as contemporary issues. There are not many righteous deeds that can be done -here-, specific on Free-minds apart from engaging in intellectual discussion to make sense of Qur?anic teachings. I believe many members here are engaged in social works in real life. They are just not compelled to write a diary of ?My daily righteous deeds.?
You make this judgement purely based on the text exchange here. Do you actually know them personally? Do you actually know what they do with their lives outside Free-minds to actually say that proving their interpretations is their priority?
If you "help" these people and they continue to live their lifestyle like that, then that makes you just as guilty. Its the same with parents giving their drugged up kids money, its enabling.
If you are reluctant to give ?help? (meaning food and short-term solutions) to the homeless people, then you have two options
- Ignore them and pretend they don?t exist
- Provide a better solution, such as giving them a job or trainings/support so that they can sustain themselves.
I personally don?t want to opt for 1), and I am not in the capacity of doing 2). Thus I think that short-term solutions (which your argue may result them to be dependent) are the most viable ones for me.
I think that sometimes I feel as though something I am not seeing here is an active (let alone activist) religious community. One that does righteous work as a conscious, intentional collective of believers. (in the message of the Qur'an)
Refer to my reply above.
I must stress that Free-Minds is an academic forum, it is not a field where you can see people starving and asking for help. Social activism takes place outside this virtual realm, and it needs a solid community to get it going.
May I advise you that there ARE communities that have been formed. London, for instance, has a solid community and I understand that they are currently working on something. Likewise, I understand that Indonesia has a community, and it appears from a recent post that Malaysia also has one.
Social and collective movement needs a lot of planning, and you have to carefully communicate that in order to prevent misunderstanding from taking place. Hence why public forum is not exactly an ideal platform to discuss and realise any movement. You need to at least meet the members of your community, and ensure that the essential tasks are carried out. For example, if you want to work with other believers, in say, providing clean water system in a secluded village, you can?t just talk about it on the forum. You need to be there. You need to survey the area, you need to understand the needs of the local community, you need to know your stakeholders, you need to obtain development approval, you need to raise funds, etc. These cannot be done purely through internet interaction. What can someone do when everyone is scattered all around the globe? Some are in UK, some in US, some in Australia, etc. You need a real-life local community to plan and execute. Best we can do is through words of support, maybe some financial assistance if there is trust.
If you don?t have a community formed yet, I suggest that you seek out and actually form it. It is much more productive than raising concerns that nothing is done. Start from yourself, and not wait for others. If you can?t get anyone, do it alone, and God willing you?ll attract others to do the same.
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No oh nooo.... my posts were deleted too! Why do you delight in such misfortune? '(((
It's not a bad thing. The comments from all parties derailed this topic completely. It is a blessing from Allah to get our heads back into what truly matters Doing good.
Everyone has a direction they turn to.
Peace.
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Peace
That was an excellent post Raging. Thank you for opening up to something a few may consider intimate. And I do consider you very generous indeed. Im sure many of us here do similar things. I always stop for the homeless, donate money and food to the food-bank as well as money to the pet shelter. Do not mind going out of the way to direct someone if they are lost.
But they are also other more subtle things you can do. For example I live on the third floor, and take the stairs a lot. I always close the stairwell door gently instead of letting it close on its own (is noisy because of the door-closure), to not disturb the people living on either side of the stairwell. I always open and fold any big boxes i need to recycle so they fit in the recycling dumpster rather than leaving them on the floor for the cleaning staff to deal with. At the grocery store, I always return my shopping cart/basket to where I got it from, rather than leaving it where ever is more convenient and saying they have employees to round up the carts (like many do).
Just yesterday I was out biking, and quite fast at that coz I was on a trail, and I stopped because there was a girl on one side of the trail taking a picture of her boyfriend on the other side, so not to mess up their picture.
And also charity/righteous acts come in being humble and in your attitude. Its easier to be considerate of others, when you feel you are equal to all people, including those that are homeless, cleaning staff, minimum wage grocery store employees. Its the acts you do that counts, not the years of formal education, the amount of money you make, or the fact that you were spared the circumstances that result in homelessness.
But I am sure the majority ( like 99.9%) of us do little acts every single day but don't mention them, coz you come across sounding like a righteous snob, like I am feeling a little bit right now. So I completely agree with you Wakas.
How about we give each other permission to be a little bit snobby, and share the considerate things we do, so we can get ideas from each other. Who knows, we may have been doing something very inconsiderate without realizing it, and this discussion may point it out to us.
You had a great idea foralgerian. Thank you
Peace
Kukumber.
That's a great idea, It could inspire others with things that they could do which they were unaware of doing. Great thread, great post!
I'm glad someone had the thoughtfulness to remind and inspire via starting such a thread.
Thanks raginggaijin