Pork & Logic
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..but Idolfree, this means that you are back to the point before starting this discussion eating animals is allowed, and not only in case of necessity, what happened with the blood, (why do you say "pooring" blood? is that specified in the quran?), with the insistence on fruits?
I have reasons to know that to not eating animals is the correct option, but they are not from the quran but from health and compassionate reasons, I still expect reasons from the Reading. I'll continue looking for them, you have finished very soon!
Peace to everyone.
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Peace be upon you Elena,
Yes, I agree that science shows that a vegetarian diet is superior. But I am far from finished on the issue, just at a loss for a new direction to search. The fact tat Ibrahim offers his "guests" a calf indicates that eating meat is okay without it beig a necessity, but I also see reason that although it is okay to eat, we are to go after the most pure foods.
The blood issue is the part that seems to stick out. We are told eslewhere not to shed blood, but then there is a whole section on wildlife preservation.
sigh!
My Lord increase me in knowledge
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Salaams to all,
nice arguments but obviosly as allways ,and like anygood humans we like to preserve what we believe in strongly and will allways find reasoned arguments to prove the belief right - as the traditionalists.But the truth allways will hurt,lets see what if anything it can be other then the pig.
According to the lanes and the quranic Dictionary
Khanzer = two words, Khanz=Bad/stinking(maggotty)/altered(in ordour).
Er =I see.
What if Khanzer was Bad rooten meat -which obviosly will cause sickness food poisoning and might even kill you especially in those days?
If smeone jumps on the wagon of the ayat where Allah changed people into apes,swine and idol worshippers then
Then i don't have the time now but briefly i did come accross lanes and Q.D
The same word used for the ape also meant Mean,despiccable people.And the word Khanzer also means Obstinate,stupid,proudy people.
Thanks.
salaam mz, all,
i have been following this thread with interest...
i have looked at the occurences of this word 'kh n z r', and, it appears 5 times, in the following verses
2173
53
560
6145
16115i find it interesting that in all four verses, except one (verse 560), this word 'kh n z r' is always preceded by the word '...wa lah ma...', meaning '...and meat...'.
i think the words '...wa lah ma-lkhinziiri...' means '...and meat rotten/bad...', as pointed out by mz.the word probably means 'pig' in the verse 560, when it is used as '...waja'ala minhumu-lqiradata walkhanaaziira...' translated as '...and He turned amongst them apes and pigs...', in reference to God's retribution for the transgressors.
would appreciate your thoughts on this...
thanks and peace.
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i think the words '...wa lah ma-lkhinziiri...' means '...and meat rotten/bad...', as pointed out by mz.
Peace rossi,
I think your statement is wrong according to arabic grammar."meat rotten/bad" in arabic using "khinzir" as rotten would sound like "lahmoun khiziroun".
Or "the rotten meat" -->"allahmou alkinzirou"
Instead, in the arabic verses, there's "lahma alkhinzir" which translates as "meat of the khinzir", still to define what khinzir is.
The way "alkhinzir" is used in the verses shows that it cannot be an adjective for "meat".
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i think the words '...wa lah ma-lkhinziiri...' means '...and meat rotten/bad...', as pointed out by mz.
Peace rossi,
I think your statement is wrong according to arabic grammar."meat rotten/bad" in arabic using "khinzir" as rotten would sound like "lahmoun khiziroun".
Or "the rotten meat" -->"allahmou alkinzirou"
Instead, in the arabic verses, there's "lahma alkhinzir" which translates as "meat of the khinzir", still to define what khinzir is.
The way "alkhinzir" is used in the verses shows that it cannot be an adjective for "meat".
what about the word 'wa-lkhanaaziira' in 560, what does this word mean?
peace.
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Dear rossi,
Just a thought off the top of my head, could the words in verse 5.60, refer to something in the direction of ?soulless minds and decaying bodies (or flesh)??
A human being in that state would indeed be despicable.
Should we leave any specific animal out of it, as God has created all animals, and not anything despicable?
Mind you, I?m still just trying, and looking for answers.
Best regards
Ali Omar
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Bismillah Walhamdulillah Was Salaatu Was Salaam 'ala Rasulillah. Following text give you reasons why Allah (SWT) has forbidden eating pork. There are many other reasons which we do not know of but ALLAH (SWT) knows.
"You are what you eat" - Native American proverb
In folklore terms, eating the meat of the pig is said to contribute to lack of morality and shame, plus greed for wealth, laziness, indulgence, dirtiness and gluttony. We insult a person by calling him or her a "Pig" when they demonstrate these characteristics. Muslims are forbidden by God to eat the meat of the pig (pork).
This is detailed in verses 2173, 53, 6145, and 16115 of the Qur'an. An exemplary verse is quoted here "He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Is Pork Forbidden to Muslims Only?
The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 148
Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste of pig-meat. Many excuses have been given, but none are very sound.
Many Far Eastern traditions also discourage the eating of pork. The 3,000 year old Confucian Book of Rites says, "Agentleman does not eat the flesh of pigs and dogs." Although many Chinese are avid eaters of pork today, physicians of ancient China recognized pork-eating as the root of many human ailments. Buddhists, Jains and Hindus usually avoid eating any kind of meat.
Bad effects of pork consumption
Pig's bodies contain many toxins, worms and latent diseases. Although some of these infestations are harbored in other animals, modern veterinarians say that pigs are far more predisposed to these illnesses than other animals. This could be because pigs like to scavenge and will eat any kind of food, including dead insects, worms, rotting carcasses, excreta (including their own), garbage, and other pigs.
Influenza (flu) is one of the most famous illnesses which pigs share with humans. This illness is harbored in the lungs of pigs during the summer months and tends to affect pigs and humans in the cooler months. Sausage contains bits of pigs' lungs, so those who eat pork sausage tend to suffer more during epidemics of influenza. Pig meat contains excessive quantities of histamine and imidazole compounds, which can lead to itching and inflammation; growth hormone, which promotes inflammation and growth; sulphur-containing mesenchymal mucus, which leads to swelling and deposits of mucus in tendons and cartilage, resulting in arthritis, rheumatism, etc.
Sulfur helps cause firm human tendons and ligaments to be replaced by the pig's soft mesenchymal tissues, and degeneration of human cartilage. Eating pork can also lead to gallstones and obesity, probably due to its high cholesterol and saturated fat content. The pig is the main carrier of the taenia solium worm, which is found it its flesh. These tapeworms are found in human intestines with greater frequency in nations where pigs are eaten. This type of tapeworm can pass through the intestines and affect many other organs, and is incurable once it reaches beyond a certain stage. One in six people in the US and Canada has trichinosis from eating trichina worms which are found in pork. Many people have no symptoms to warn them of this, and when they do, they resemble symptoms of many other illnesses. These worms are not noticed during meat inspections, nor are they killed by salting or smoking. Few people cook the meat long enough to kill the trichinae. The rat (another scavenger) also harbors this disease. There are dozens of other worms, germs, diseases and bacteria which are commonly found in pigs, many of which are specific to the pig, or found in greater frequency in pigs.
Pigs are biologically similar to humans, and their meat is said to taste similar to human flesh. Pigs have been used for dissection in biology labs due to the similarity between their organs and human organs. People with insulin-dependent diabetes usually inject themselves with pig insulin.
Kindness to animals
Every creature was created by Allah for a purpose. The Prophet always encouraged being kind to animals. Although we should not eat the meat of the pig, it doesn't mean that we should hate pigs. We should show them the same kindness as any other animal, and not abuse or torture them. Pigs score high on tests devised to determine animal intelligence; in other words, they are very smart. It used to be that Europe people believed that pork would taste better if the pigs were kept in a state of filth, but this is not the natural inclination of the pig. When left to their own devices, it is said that pigs do not like to soil their sleeping quarters. As for their tendency to wallow in mud, that is done mainly to keep cool.
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Body & Soul
The life of a man is a compound of body and soul. Anything, which is harmful for the body, hurts the soul as well. Consumption of swine-flesh reduces the feeling of shame and as such the standard of modesty. Those nations, which consume pork habitually, have a low standard of morality with the result that virginity, chastity and bashfulness are becoming a thing of the past in Europe today. The number of unwed mothers is on the increase despite the use of pills and other contraceptives.According to a report, 60 to 70% girls in Sweden become mothers before marriage. The formula of "skin to skin is no sin" is having its toll but there is hardly and feeling of shame and remorse over the end-result. Since the European nations have become addicted to wine and pork, sexual freedom with all its attendant evils has got ingrained in their culture. Consequently, homosexuality has been legalized by the British Parliament.
The Holy Qur'an has prohibited the swine-flesh, hence the Muslims would not dare touch it. The Bible has also forbidden swine-flesh, but Christians disregarded this order and started consuming it. The Europeans now proclaim that pork is a very powerful diet, rich in protein. Some of them further argue that since there is a great scarcity of food-stuffs in the world and swines are available in abundant quantity, they should be consumed in diet to overcome the food shortage. If this argument is true, why don't they use dog's meat as dogs too are available in plenty? The Europeans perhaps hate the mention of dog's meat in the same way as the Muslims shun pork.
Another wrong notion about swine-flesh is that its consumption lengthens life-span, although this is a pure myth and absurdity. On the contrary, people, who abstain from pork and liquor, have a longer span of life. The Muslims in Central Asia bear a testimony to this truth.
However, in the consumption of flesh Muslims are required to be selective and distinguish between Halaal (Lawful) and Haraam (Unlawful). This step leads automatically to the deeper understanding of the need for the cultivation of a pure human nature. As blood is virtually our life-stream and whatever we consume ultimately affects the blood system, it is, therefore, necessary to exercise choice in the selection of our food and drink as per the requirements of the Shariah.
There are certain foods and drinks specified by Allah, and His Messenger Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) as forbidden. The prohibition of these foods and drinks is not by any means an arbitrary action or an unwarranted decree of Allah. It is the first and foremost a divine intervention in the best interest of man and for his own benefit.
The reasons behind the Divine intervention are numerous. They are of a nature intellectual and spiritual, moral and mental, physical and economic. And the sole purpose is to show man how to develop himself according to an upright course of life in order to be a healthy unit in the structure of the family, then of society and eventually of humanity at large.
Reliable medical doctors and social scientists are able to realize how those foods and drinks forbidden by Islam are harmful and destructive to the human spirit and morality as well as to the physique and moral fibre of man and to verify the benefits of Islamic legislations on the subjects.
The prohibition is based on the aim of the purification of one's nature, because food, when consumed, doesn't merely enter the stomach and intestines and become excreta. It is absorbed and metabolized into the system and circulated to all parts of the human body, including the brain, and this in no small way affects man's nature.
The pig is naturally lazy and indulgent in sex, it is dirty, greedy and gluttonous. It dislikes sunlight and lacks the spirit and will to "fight." It eats almost anything, be it human excreta or anything foul and unwholesome. Amongst all animal flesh, pork is the favoured cradle of harmful germs. Pork also serves as a carrier of diseases to mankind. It is for this reason that its flesh is not suitable for consumption.
Some people have argued that the "modern pig" reared in farms is given only clean foods, therefore, its flesh should be consumable. The answer is that you may feed the pig on clean, wholesome food, but you can't change its nature. It is still a pig. A pig is not a plant and you cannot change it by bud-grafting.
Medical ReportsDr. E. Kazim. M.D. in his article "Medical aspects of forbidden foods in Islam" (July 1981 issue of Muslim Journal has described diseases carried or caused by the flesh of the swine. He writes
The pig is a scavenger. It is an omnivorous animal. It eats everything. There are many disease carried from swine to man, particularly parasite infestations. Lately extensive research has been focused on senility-old age is characterized by hardening of inner lining of the blood vessels of the heart, brain etc. a process called atheroselerosis. When a clot forms, it results in coronary thrombosis or a heart attack, cerebral thrombosis or stroke.
Different dietary factors are responsible for atheroselerosis. Gross atheroma may be produced in rabbit by feeding it with cholesterol, but when you add lard (derived from hog fat) to the cholesterol, the incidence of atheroma is increased and thus you would produce coronary thrombosis, and myocardial infraction.
Besides, lard contains 2800 units of vitamin D per 100 grams and no vitamin A at all. Lately vitamin D has been held responsible for atheroma, by causing increased absorption of calcium in the blood vessels. In human beings, serum cholesterol is not dependent on the intake of cholesterol in the diet, but depends upon the proportion of animal fats in the diet, which elevate the beta-lipo protein level in the blood. Animal fats contain saturated fatty acids and these saturated fatty acids have been found to be as one of the causes of atheroma in man. Medium fat bacon contains 25% proteins and 55% fat."
According to medical research, the fat content in pork is more than any other meat (beef, mutton etc.) and it takes longer to digest. Dr. M Jaffer in an article in the Islamic Review (London) of January 1997 issue has listed 16 kinds of harmful germs, which have been discovered in pork in modern researches and the diseases, which could be caused by them. The number of patients suffering from tapeworm disease is the highest in the world among pork eating nations. Other diseases attributed to pigs are caused by tri-chinelia spirates and intestinal worms occupy first place among such nations too.
Dr. Glen Shepherd wrote the following on the dangers of eating pork in Washington Post (31 May 1952).
"One in six people in USA and Canada have germs in their muscles - trichinosis 8 from eating pork infected with trichina worms. Many people so infected have no symptoms. Most of those, who do have, recover slowly. Some die; some are reduced to permanent invalids. All were careless pork caters".
He continued "No one is immune from the disease and there is no cure. Neither antibiotics nor drugs or vaccines affect these tiny deadly worms. Preventing infection is the real answer."
After reading the statement of Dr. Shepherd, one can realize that there is no real guarantee of safety when eating pork that one would not be affected by trichina worm. That is why modern doctors advise three prohibitions during illness no liquor, no pork and no smoking.
Muslims follow the divine law which is much higher than the medical advice. The Glorious Qur'an says, "So eat of the lawful and good food which Allah has provided for you, and thank the bounty of your Lord if it is Him you serve. He has forbidden for you only carrion and blood and swine-flesh and that which has been immolated in the name of any other than Allah; but he who is driven thereto, neither craving nor transgressing, Lo! then Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (16114-115)
The above is the order from the Creator of the universe and Supreme Law-Giver. All Muslims are under the obligation to obey it. This is a plain and straightforward answer to those, who usually ask why Muslims abstain from eating pork. Nevertheless, there is no sin, if a Muslims is forced by famine or starvation to eat pork in order to save his life.
does this answer?
questions are wellcome
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Salam,
I don't know if that can help, but i can tell what i know, which is not related to my knowledge of the Qu'ran, but to my scientific knowledge and the people I know
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It is true that pork is genetically very close to human (i dont know how important or relavant it is here)
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Some of my friends who are atheist don't eat pork either (and when i say "don't", I mean, NEVER, just like muslems do). When i ask them why, they tell me "for health reasons".
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i think the words '...wa lah ma-lkhinziiri...' means '...and meat rotten/bad...', as pointed out by mz.
Peace rossi,
I think your statement is wrong according to arabic grammar."meat rotten/bad" in arabic using "khinzir" as rotten would sound like "lahmoun khiziroun".
Or "the rotten meat" -->"allahmou alkinzirou"
Instead, in the arabic verses, there's "lahma alkhinzir" which translates as "meat of the khinzir", still to define what khinzir is.
The way "alkhinzir" is used in the verses shows that it cannot be an adjective for "meat".
what about the word 'wa-lkhanaaziira' in 560, what does this word mean?
peace.
salaam someone,
could you explain the difference between "the rotten meat" -->"lahmou alkinzirou", versus, "lah ma-lkhinziiri". they seem the same to me...
thanks & peace.
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Peace rossi,
The --> al
In arabic, an adjective has the same attributes as the word it's describing.
For example
The big (the)door --> albabou alkabirou.a big door --> baboun kabiroun. (no al for both words)
In this case, "kabiroun" is an adjective describing "bab", they both have to have al, or both without al for the statement to be correct gramaticaly. And both have the same finishing. (ou or oun)
Example 2
The door of the town --> babou almadinatiYou will notice that only "madinati" has an al, and not "babou". Thus "madinati" cannot be an adjective of babou, because
1- babou and madinati don't have the same finishing.
2- bab has no al, and madinat has an al.
So we know from the gramatical construction of the sentence that "madinat" is not an adjective for "bab".The case we have for "lahmou alkhinziri" is the same as example 2. So "khinziri" cannot be an adjective for "lahmou".
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Hi all,
I must say the stories, reports, etc. cited here is nothing new. But to my mind, they do not hold water. These are statistics based on very small variations, that can easily be turned around and be true for any kind of animals used for food.
The creatures most indifferent concerning their diet do not live on land, they live in the sea, and in the Qur?an I can not find any restrictions on these creatures as food resources.
The findings that the pig is ?unclean? due to it being an ?all-eater?, therefore can not be of any significance as to why it is forbidden as a food source.There are restaurants in China specializing in various dishes of rat-meat, and also, there are numerous food sources around the world, killing a large number of people, like birds and bird products, cattle, and so on.
When we hear the word fat, we think heart disease or some other form of cardiovascular disease. However, animal fat is mostly saturated fat and therefore contains mostly ?good? cholesterol.
So that can hardly be the reason for pig?s flesh being forbidden.Blood is forbidden, but regarded a delicacy in many European countries, like the Scandinavian countries, Germany and so on.
These same countries are also using very high quantities of pig?s products in their food.
The life span and health situation in those countries do not seem to be much affected by this diet either.Immoral living? Please!
No, sorry, I can not agree with all these ?findings?. Something is wrong in this picture. Either our understanding of what food God really asks us to stay away from, or there must be something devastating dangerous with what we are told to avoid.
I tend to lean towards meat not being forbidden, but only fresh, or well preserved meat.
Therefore vegetarianism is probably good, but ?good? meat as well, meaning we should be more careful with the meat we consume.Have we come any closer, or are we all being more confused?
Best regards
Ali Omar
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Peace be upon you Ali,
I tend to lean towards meat not being forbidden, but only fresh, or well preserved meat.
Therefore vegetarianism is probably good, but ?good? meat as well, meaning we should be more careful with the meat we consume.That is the understanding I currently hold as well.
Have we come any closer, or are we all being more confused?
Its hard to tell Let me add some more wood to the fire;
(6146) And on those who guided(hadoo), We forbade every (thing) of nails/claws , and from the cows and the sheep and goats , We forbade on them their fat, except what their backs bore , or the intestines/guts , or what (was) mixed/mingled with bones, that We rewarded/reimbursed them because of their oppression/transgression, and We are truthful (E).
Why are those things prohibited from those people described as "hadoo"?
Why is not pigs meat in that verse? -
Peace be upon you all,
I have been thinking about this pig issue, not about the Arabic, but just about pigs in general. I just see no reason why pigs, to the exclusion of many many filthy animals, were singled out as restricted foods.
I have come to the conclusion that we are being told not to "eat" Greediness into our hearts.
When we remember the story of Adam (mankind), we recall that the basic desire that causes us to fall from the Garden is our GREED for more than we need.
(235) And We said "You Adam, reside/inhabit you and your spouse the garden, and you (both) eat from it easily/comfortably where/when you (both) wanted, and do not approach/near (B) this the tree, so you (B) become from the unjust/oppressors."
We are told that we have everything we need, yet we become GREEDY for more. Nations are now suffering as they always have been becuase of the GREED of those in control. Many of us live in neighborhoods that have homeless, yet we build football stadiums, have game shows where people play games to win millions, casinos, etc.
Greed , which stems from arrogance seems to be the root of the tree of evil. And what better animal to represent greed than the Pig? It doesn't even give any "EXCESS" through sweat because it doesn't have any sweat glands.
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Dear Wakas,
I have not done much research on the subject, and I feel a bit awkward defending pork as a source of nutrition as I have no intention of touching it myself, as yet, but I wonder where you got your facts?
There are researchers who have found the following comparison to be true
3 ounces, cooked/roasted/trimmed
Pork tenderloin, cal. 139, tot. fat 4.1 g, Sat. fat 1.4 g, Cholesterol 67.
Skinless chicken leg, cal. 180, tot. fat 7.1 g, Sat. fat 2.0 g, Cholesterol 80.
Beef tenderloin, cal. 175, tot. fat 8.1 g, Sat. fat 3.0 g, Cholesterol 71.
Salmon fish, cal. 175, tot. fat 11.0 g, Sat. fat 2.1 g, Cholesterol 54.Does not look unfavorable for pork-meat?
Best regards
Ali Omar
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Dear Wakas,
Sorry, I missed the link at first. Got it now though, thanks.
Anyway, pork does not seem to be the worst kind of flesh for the human body, based on the various substances that are affecting our health.
It seems, therefore likely, that this is not an issue in the matter of forbidding this kind of meat rather than other types.
I lean towards health reasons not being grounds for the restrictions.Best regards
Ali Omar
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Peace be upon you,
I also am leaning away from health reasons, there are just way too many unhealthy things for us to be only restricted of pigs meat.
I think it is more of a symbolism of a greedy individual. If you are what you eat, we should not "eat" pigs because greed is a killer of humanity.
