Dr. Subhi Mansour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran
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I don't think that a women having more than one husband is the same as a man having more than one wives because of the problem of identifying who the father of the child is. Thats kind of hard to do if a woman is with more than one man. You see?
However theoretically speaking there is no Quranic reason to prohibit a women from having more than one husband.
As far as slavery, I agree with you. As far as Bible is concerned, the OT is a collection of words and chapters written by men. So it is not the "word of God" but its the "Book of God". As far as Gospel, Jesus is the word of God. Jesus was the Koran. Moses of course communicated with God through the bush. But no Koran like scriptures came to anyone than Muhammad and Jesus did not need a Koranic like scripture because he was given the holy spirit.
Every scripture has its uniqueness and every prophet has his own biography. But the religion is one.
Yes Hagar was his wife. Concubines was a practice that eastern societies practiced. But its wrong to associate it with slavery. There is no real difference between a concubine and a regular wife. Eastern societies have many formalities for weddings. But the essence is two partners commiting to one another to be a family.
Anyways if any verse in the Koran is somewhat hard to interpret, we simply leave it as it is and deal with the verses that are more easier to interpret. Sunnis and Shias follow speculation and spin.
'He it is who has sent down to thee the Book in it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the book others are allegorical, that is those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord;" and none will grasp the message except men of understanding' (Al-Qur'an 3 7).
So there is a Divine plan here.
5.48. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
At least thats how I see it but of course I could be wrong. Nobody in the world will figure everything in the Koran, Gospel and OT. Not even the prophets or angels. The Books of God and the Words of God are not any literature.
I rely on the previous scriptures heavily when I want to understand the Koran or any religious issue. But I do not read each scriptures the same. But they all lead to the same tree.
You seems to be a much more reasonable muslim than most muslims who I met. You obviously dont take anything for granted and try to discover some of the secrets of the Quran unlike the sunni sect who consider the Quran as being a dead book only hold artificially alive by their hateful traditions.
I study History in the University so I know that the eastern people had some different kinds of marriage as you mention. I like the way that you consider the bible in understanding some elements in islam, its basically also what Quran also tells us to do many times And if you Dont know or have any doubt about it then ask the ones who received the book before you. But of course that requires that you are aware of the inconsistencies in the bible and you are appearently very aware of them.Regarding a woman having more than one husband, I can still not see why she cannot. You mentions the problem with knowing the father of the children? Well, if you read the history you will know that in some parts of Africa it was quiete normal that a woman married several husbands at once, but they still knew the paternity of the children(the resemblence of the children, how to be sexual activs with the husbands in ways that can make her know the father in cases of pregnancy etc.) but today in 2011 we have - Thank God - DNA test. A deity is all-knowing as described in the Quran - it knows the past, present and future which means that God could never forbid a woman to have several husbands based on paternity matters since God already knew that there would come a time where the father of the child would be identified even if the mother had 700 husbands as Solomon. And Quran is for all times right? So whether a man is married to more than one wife or a woman is married to more than one husband, thats basically the same thing since both parents can be identified in both cases.
However, my humble understanding is that its best for people - whether they are females or males - to be satisfied with one spouse. God created Adam and Eve to each other, he did not created Adam with several wives or Eve with several husbands. So it means that from the beginning the intention was to make us satisfied with one spouse which is the best way to build a healthy relationship. I dont think that any spouse deserves to be cheated on even if its in a 'legal' way. As its written in the bible 'And therefore a man leaves his father and mother in order to become one flesh with his wife'. So a marriage is basically a union between TWO people who becomes one.
Peace
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You seems to be a much more reasonable muslim than most muslims who I met. You obviously dont take anything for granted and try to discover some of the secrets of the Quran unlike the sunni sect who consider the Quran as being a dead book only hold artificially alive by their hateful traditions.
I study History in the University so I know that the eastern people had some different kinds of marriage as you mention. I like the way that you consider the bible in understanding some elements in islam, its basically also what Quran also tells us to do many times And if you Dont know or have any doubt about it then ask the ones who received the book before you. But of course that requires that you are aware of the inconsistencies in the bible and you are appearently very aware of them.Regarding a woman having more than one husband, I can still not see why she cannot. You mentions the problem with knowing the father of the children? Well, if you read the history you will know that in some parts of Africa it was quiete normal that a woman married several husbands at once, but they still knew the paternity of the children(the resemblence of the children, how to be sexual activs with the husbands in ways that can make her know the father in cases of pregnancy etc.) but today in 2011 we have - Thank God - DNA test. A deity is all-knowing as described in the Quran - it knows the past, present and future which means that God could never forbid a woman to have several husbands based on paternity matters since God already knew that there would come a time where the father of the child would be identified even if the mother had 700 husbands as Solomon. And Quran is for all times right? So whether a man is married to more than one wife or a woman is married to more than one husband, thats basically the same thing since both parents can be identified in both cases.
However, my humble understanding is that its best for people - whether they are females or males - to be satisfied with one spouse. God created Adam and Eve to each other, he did not created Adam with several wives or Eve with several husbands. So it means that from the beginning the intention was to make us satisfied with one spouse which is the best way to build a healthy relationship. I dont think that any spouse deserves to be cheated on even if its in a 'legal' way. As its written in the bible 'And therefore a man leaves his father and mother in order to become one flesh with his wife'. So a marriage is basically a union between TWO people who becomes one.
Peace
Good point.
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See 24.31
And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those maintained by their oaths, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
Women do have MMA see text highlighted en red it refers to women's MMA
Salaam
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See 24.31
And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those maintained by their oaths, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
Women do have MMA see text highlighted en red it refers to women's MMA
Salaam
Excately. So now its proven that women also actually have Ma malakat aymanahon. And if ma malakat aymanahona are actually slaves (as some horney muslim men insist upon) then Quran tells us that women also own slaves. And if sex with slaves are permitted in islam (as horney muslim men insist upon) then it means that muslim women can have sex with their slave boys as well
now this one is of course hard for muslim men to swallow because they have been used to have monopoly on sex eat But alhamdulillah Gods word tell us something else. Otherwise MMA does not means slaves at all anywhere.
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Excately. So now its proven that women also actually have Ma malakat aymanahon. And if ma malakat aymanahona are actually slaves (as some horney muslim men insist upon) then Quran tells us that women also own slaves. And if sex with slaves are permitted in islam (as horney muslim men insist upon) then it means that muslim women can have sex with their slave boys as well )
It is not "horney Muslim men" who "insist" that they can have intercourse with ma malakat aymanahona. The Qur'an allows it.
now this one is of course hard for muslim men to swallow because they have been used to have monopoly on sex eat
Bravo!
bravoBravo!
bravoYour post is beautifully bigoted!
Anders Behring Breivik sends his regards! ;D
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It is not "horney Muslim men" who "insist" that they can have intercourse with ma malakat aymanahona. The Qur'an allows it.
Bravo!
bravoBravo!
bravoYour post is beautifully bigoted!
Anders Behring Breivik sends his regards! ;D
Thank you for exposing your stupidity. If you need any help to pay the expenses for your mental treatment, please let me know. I love to help the needy as quran orders us.
Peace
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Yes dreamer. Quran allows muslim men and muslim women to have sex with their slaves. So of course I am just waiting for the day that slavery would be allowed again so I can kidnap some handsome infidel men and have a lot of fun with them eat eat
And its funny how you can call my post bigoted when you cant even refute a single word of mine.Hmmm, where did I say that I intended to refute anything from the Qur'an? hmm
No, I just commented on how incredibly bigoted your post was, o great Messenger Becca, beacon for all of mankind (yeah), I hope that you are not offended by my humble observation.
So be in your senses and please dont waste my time by your meaningless posts. I am frankly very tired of trolls like you. By the way Hitler sends his regards to you bravo bye bye )
I didn't promote the Nazi ideology in any of my posts, did I?
Please show me where I did, Mrs. "WhereIsTruth" ;D
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Hmmm, where did I say that I intended to refute anything from the Qur'an? hmm
No, I just commented on how incredibly bigoted your post was, o great Messenger Becca, beacon for all of mankind (yeah), I hope that you are not offended by my humble observation.
I didn't promote the Nazi ideology in any of my posts, did I?
Please show me where I did, Mrs. "WhereIsTruth" ;D
And who told you that I want your baseless comments. Unfortunately it is your post which are incredibly bigoted and not mine. I did not understood a single word of what you wrote. Seems like you are a troll who is trying to play Christmas games with me. But I don't have time for you, I am sorry. May god give you a life inshallah. I hope you won't feel offended by my views on you.
Peace
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And who told you that I want your baseless comments. Unfortunately it is your post which are incredibly bigoted and not mine. I did not understood a single word of what you wrote. Seems like you are a troll who is trying to play Christmas games with me. But I don't have time for you, I am sorry. May god give you a life inshallah. I hope you won't feel offended by my views on you.
Peace
I did not "understood" a single word of what you wrote either. rotfl
Bye! ;D
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I did not "understood" a single word of what you wrote either. rotfl
Bye! ;D
''The best answer to a fool(i.e you) is silence'' - Arabic proverb.
Peace
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Excately. So now its proven that women also actually have Ma malakat aymanahon. And if ma malakat aymanahona are actually slaves (as some horney muslim men insist upon) then Quran tells us that women also own slaves. And if sex with slaves are permitted in islam (as horney muslim men insist upon) then it means that muslim women can have sex with their slave boys as well )
now this one is of course hard for muslim men to swallow because they have been used to have monopoly on sex eat But alhamdulillah Gods word tell us something else. Otherwise MMA does not means slaves at all anywhere.
Good point. I was thinking about that the other day. Remember Sunnis believe that when Muhammad migrated with his followers to Medina, the Medina folks "shared" their wives with the new arrivals. &
So you figure.
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Good point. I was thinking about that the other day. Remember Sunnis believe that when Muhammad migrated with his followers to Medina, th e Medina folks "shared" their wives with the new arrivals. &
So you figure.
Hehe you gotta be kidding dear brother bigmo, do they really have a hadith about that rotfl and what was the purpose of sharing their wives with Muhammad and company? But then wife sharing is not forbidden according to sunnies???
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Hehe you gotta be kidding dear brother bigmo, do they really have a hadith about that rotfl and what was the purpose of sharing their wives with Muhammad and company? But then wife sharing is not forbidden according to sunnies???
Narrated Sa'd's father When the emigrants reached Medina. Allah's Apostle established the bond of fraternity between 'Abdur-Rahman and Sad bin Ar-Rabi. Sad said to 'Abdur-Rahman, "I am the richest of all the Ansar, so I want to divide my property (between us), and I have two wives, so see which of the two you like and tell me, so that I may divorce her, and when she finishes her prescribed period (i.e. 'Idda) of divorce, then marry her." Abdur-Rahman said, "May Allah bless your family and property for you; where is your market?" So they showed him the Qainuqa' market. (He went there and) returned with a profit in the form of dried yogurt and butter. He continued going (to the market) till one day he came, bearing the traces of yellow scent. The Prophet asked, "What is this (scent)?" He replied, "I got married." The Prophet asked, "How much Mahr did you give her?" He replied, "I gave her a date-stone of gold or a gold piece equal to the weight of a date-stone." (The narrator, Ibrahim, is in doubt as to which is correct.) Bukhari
Narrated Anas When 'Abdur-Rahman bin 'Auf came to us, Allah's Apostle made a bond of fraternity between him and Sad bin Ar-Rabi' who was a rich man, Sad said, "The Ansar know that I am the richest of all of them, so I will divide my property into two parts between me and you, and I have two wives; see which of the two you like so that I may divorce her and you can marry her after she becomes lawful to you by her passing the prescribed period (i.e. 'Idda) of divorce. 'Abdur Rahman said, "May Allah bless you your family (i.e. wives) for you." (But 'Abdur-Rahman went to the market) and did not return on that day except with some gain of dried yogurt and butter. He went on trading just a few days till he came to Allah's Apostle bearing the traces of yellow scent over his clothes. Allah's Apostle asked him, "What is this scent?" He replied, "I have married a woman from the Ansar." Allah's Apostle asked, "How much Mahr have you given?" He said, "A date-stone weight of gold or a golden date-stone." The Prophet said, "Arrange a marriage banquet even with a sheep." Bukhari
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bigmoOh my god! These hadith actually say that your wives are your property so just go ahead and divorce them and give them to your friends. And not one word about what the wives thought about it. Who may have fabricated this nonsense hmm and more important how can sunnies believe in such crap?
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bigmoOh my god! These hadith actually say that your wives are your property so just go ahead and divorce them and give them to your friends. And not one word about what the wives thought about it. Who may have fabricated this nonsense hmm and more important how can sunnies believe in such crap?
The idea is that they were so generous that they even shared their wives. Of course by divorcing them first. You are right, it shows the mentality we are dealing with here where a wife is seen as personal property.
There is more
I found that some Sunnis believe that a person can marry a "slave girl" and her sister too all at once. hypno
This is what I call a screwed up mentality.
Meanhwile they catch you with a beer or a marijuana joint then you are toast.
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The idea is that they were so generous that they even shared their wives. Of course by divorcing them first. You are right, it shows the mentality we are dealing with here where a wife is seen as personal property.
There is more
I found that some Sunnis believe that a person can marry a "slave girl" and her sister too all at once. hypno
This is what I call a screwed up mentality.
Meanhwile they catch you with a beer or a marijuana joint then you are toast.
The sunnites have made a terrible mockery out of religion with all their hypocrisy and sick mentality.
I wonder what Mohammed would think if he heard that they accuse him of being a wife-sharer o oSAVE HUMANITY & MOHAMMED FROM THE SUNNI-DISEASE muscle muscle
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LOl! To be fair its not easy understanding every verse and term in Koran.
However I believe that Ma Malakat Aymanukum means concubine as understood in semitic tradition. Concubines are like Hagar and Queen Sheeba in the Bible. A marriage without dowry.
Says who?
Definitely not God4 24
And an already married man cannot marry a MMA. Polygamy is very restricted. Taking a MMA is not mentioned as a condition for polygamy. The qur'aan always speak of "your/their spouses OR your/their MMA". Never both of them. It's a marriage albeit for a specific people, those who are unable to consummate marriage (425). They enter into a MMA marriage and they and their spouses are milku yameen each other. That's why only in this case is the family's permission mentioned. They have to know what their son/ daughter is up to and that they are going to marry some one who cannot consummate marriage.
The muhsan, is therefore, the opposite immune of this disability. (muhsan means immune).
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Says who?
Definitely not God4 24
And an already married man cannot marry a MMA. Polygamy is very restricted. Taking a MMA is not mentioned as a condition for polygamy. The qur'aan always speak of "your/their spouses OR your/their MMA". Never both of them. It's a marriage albeit for a specific people, those who are unable to consummate marriage (425). They enter into a MMA marriage and they and their spouses are milku yameen each other. That's why only in this case is the family's permission mentioned. They have to know what their son/ daughter is up to and that they are going to marry some one who cannot consummate marriage.
The muhsan, is therefore, the opposite immune of this disability. (muhsan means immune).
Very intresting Samia. Your analyse is also very logical, since its not all people who are able to consummate marriages. Muhsanat hence means women immune ?
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Muhsanat hence means women immune ?
And men, too.
The masculine address is not just to males. Females are also included.
From verse 421 the address is to the general public, men and women. The prohibition applies to both. When it says "your mothers are prohibited upon you" it would mean to a women "your fathers are prohibited to you". A mother by nursing to a male will be the husband of the mother who nursed to a female.
From verse 424, the theme of prohibition continues with change of addressee. Here, men and women who are able and willing to consummate marriage (muhsans) are prohibited upon those who are unable or unwilling to, (those who the verse is addressing now) except those among the muhsans, i.e the able and willing, who accept to enter this "sexless" marriage marriage by oath. In this case, the families should also be involved to advise and to take notice.