Who made the Kabba???
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So we shouldn't be praying towards the kaaba? Sorry, I'm just confused and want verification.
Let's reason on this..
Depending on your location; on some places it will be very difficult for you to 'face the kabba' (or any predefined location) for praying.
For example; if you're in Hawaii or some island in middle of pacific, then kabba (or jerusalem or any other places within middle east region) exact location is actually under your feet, given the earth is round. Feel free to check the google earth...
For me; it's quite strange (and ridiculous) to have a 'centralized point on earth surface to face' upon praying, it's valid IF the earth is flat (which was the common view some centuries ago), given the earth is round like a ball it will be very difficult.
Salam / Peace
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http//aididsafar.com/shaivite.html
????His article and argument make sense; especially if you're familiar with hinduism or ancient indo-european culture.
Makkah = Fire (in sanskrit)
Shiva = god of destruction often symbolized by fire.
Black stone (Hajjar Aswad) = Bali stone, the stone to mark the beginning and the end for 'pradakshina'.
Pradakshina = the act of encircling a holy/sacred object (usually the deity's statue or other form of deity's symbol).
Shiva Pradakshina = the act of encircling in honor to Shiva, especially for Shiva it's clockwise..
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PradakshinaMost probably; The shrine in a place called Makka was originally a shrine to honor Shiva..
Mind you that the so-called "indo-european" people is the forefather of many people/races in the world including but not limited to the aryans/persians, the caucasians (Slavs, Celts, Amorites, Germanic, Gaelic etc..), the melanesians (thais,malays) , the altheans (mongol,turks) etc..
However.. on contrary to the adid safar's article where many times he mentioned something called "India Empire"; the word "India" or "Indian people" is a recent 'social identity' invented by "British-India Nationalist" (such as Gandhi and friends) and doesn't exist in ancient times. There are no record of "Indian Empire" in any ancient document. The name probably originated from "Indus River" which oddly enough now located within a country called Pakistan and not India.
Salam / Peace
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Let's reason on this..
Depending on your location; on some places it will be very difficult for you to 'face the kabba' (or any predefined location) for praying.
For example; if you're in Hawaii or some island in middle of pacific, then kabba (or jerusalem or any other places within middle east region) exact location is actually under your feet, given the earth is round. Feel free to check the google earth...
For me; it's quite strange (and ridiculous) to have a 'centralized point on earth surface to face' upon praying, it's valid IF the earth is flat (which was the common view some centuries ago), given the earth is round like a ball it will be very difficult.
Salam / Peace
Brother Jafar,
I have heard of this argument before and I am sorry to say that it makes little sense to me. We all know that God expects us to be intelligent believers. Do you really think that when the God says to face in the direction of the Sanctuary (The Qibla) that he means to face directly to the earth (if you are half-way around the world) OR does he mean to face he in GEOGRAPHIC direction of the Qibla??? Try to broaden your interpretations and don't limit them to nonsensical arguments.
Here?s another question If you live in New York and someone comes up and asks you which direction is Barbados; are you going to tell them that it?s below the earth or are you going to tell them that it is south-east of New York???
Also am I to assume that you would not face the Qibla even though you were directly in front of it??? Isn't God?s book clear in what we should do in regards to the Qibla???
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do
Peace,
Kevin
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Peace everyone!
The direction for Qibla to my ideology is Through the Earth.
If there is a mountain between you and an object, and you're trying to face it, you would directly look through the mountain (you wouldn't look above the mountain and expect your sight to "drop" to the other side of the mountain to see the object.
The same concept with the earth. The earth is a sphere, and so if you want to look at something at the other side of the globe, you would look through the earth..
http//www.masjidtucson.org/submission/practices/salat/qiblah.html -
I have heard of this argument before and I am sorry to say that it makes little sense to me. We all know that God expects us to be intelligent.
Agree on that..
Do you really think that when the God says to face in the direction of the Sanctuary (The Qibla) that he means to face directly to the earth (if you are half-way around the world) OR does he mean to face he in GEOGRAPHIC direction of the Qibla??? Try to broaden your interpretations and don't limit them to nonsensical arguments.
You right.. try to broad your interpretations...
How about; It doesn't mean LITERALLY point your face towards some place..
Especially since the verse doesn't mention any word of 'prayer' in it.Here?s another question If you live in New York and someone comes up and asks you which direction is Barbados; are you going to tell them that it?s below the earth or are you going to tell them that it is south-east of New York???
I would point him to the JFK airport.. definitely.. and tell him to grab a flight from there to Barbados..
Also am I to assume that you would not face the Qibla even though you were directly in front of it??? Isn't God?s book clear in what we should do in regards to the Qibla???
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do
Kevin
And please read this as well.. (within the same 'chapter' as it clarify this issue further...
It is not righteousness that you turn your faces Towards east or West;
but it is righteousness- to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and freeing slaves; to be steadfast in salat, and give zakat; to fulfill the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic.
Such are the people of truth, the righteous.(2177)
Salam / Peace
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You right.. try to broad your interpretations...
How about; It doesn't mean LITERALLY point your face towards some place..
Especially since the verse doesn't mention any word of 'prayer' in it.Brother Jafar,
I am in agreement with you that the verse doesn't mention the word pray in it. However it is ?common knowledge? (among the People of the Book) that the Qiblah is used as the direction of pray.
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do.
2146 Those to whom We have given the book know it as they know their own children, and a group of them hides the truth while they know. (Jews and the Christians know the truth)
The People of the Book know that facing the Sanctuary is done during pray. So if you are in doubt of what is in the Quran then ask a Jew or a Christian.
1094 If you are in doubt regarding what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been studying the book from before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt. (If God asked Muhammad a Prophet of God to do this then who are we not to ask the People of the Book???)
So when the Quran says ?You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it? we know that it means during pray since it will be illogical to face the Qiblah all the time 24/7.
In addition focal points were used as a direction for pray.
If you read Sura 10871087 We inspired to Moses and his brother "Let your people leave their homes in Egypt, and let these homes be your focal point and hold the contact prayer. Give good news to those who acknowledge."
Contemplate on the phrase in bold
2142 The foolish from amongst the people will say, "What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?" Say, "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path." ? The phrase in bold indicates ( or strongly implies) that the focal point was used for the direction to commemorate God. Isn?t pray a commemoration of God???
Peace ,
Kevin
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It is not righteousness that you turn your faces Towards east or West;
but it is righteousness- to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and freeing slaves; to be steadfast in salat, and give zakat; to fulfill the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic.
Such are the people of truth, the righteous.(2177)
Salam / Peace
I am in agreement. Righteousness is to believe. And if a person is a believer then he or she should do deeds that are of a believer (Charity, Help the Orphans , Exercise Patience, etc). However this verse CANNOT be used to negate praying towards the Qiblah. Again all that God is saying in this verse is that Righteousness is not facing towards the Qiblah but it is in our actions. However just because he says that Righteousness is not in facing towards Qiblah doesn?t mean that when we pray we shouldn?t face the Qiblah. The verse did not say that
God?s law is crystal clear in the Quran.
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do.
2149 From wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; it is the truth from your Lord; and God is not oblivious of what you do.
2150 Wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple. Wherever you may be, you shall set yourselves towards it; that the people will have no room for debate with you, except those of them who are wicked. You shall not fear them, but fear Me so that I may complete My blessings upon you and that you may be guided.
For those who do not know where the Qiblah is then they can pray in whatever direction they wish. But for those who know where the Qiblah is (through Quranic studies ) then is binding upon them to pray in the direction of the Qiblah unless they are in position where they are uncertain of it's exact direction
Note to all readers Notice that they are only THREE VERSES in the Quran that says to face towards the Restricted Temple. Isn't that Ironic??? I just found out today when I was using quranix.org to check up on some verses.
Peace,
Kevin
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I am in agreement. Righteousness is to believe. And if a person is a believer then he or she should do deeds that are of a believer (Charity, Help the Orphans , Exercise Patience, etc). However this verse CANNOT be used to negate praying towards the Qiblah. Again all that God is saying in this verse is that Righteousness is not facing towards the Qiblah but it is in our actions. However just because he says that Righteousness is not in facing towards Qiblah doesn?t mean that when we pray we shouldn?t face the Qiblah. The verse did not say that
God?s law is crystal clear in the Quran.
2144 We see the shifting of your face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you, "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the book know it is the truth from their Lord. God is not oblivious of what you do.
2149 From wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; it is the truth from your Lord; and God is not oblivious of what you do.
2150 Wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple. Wherever you may be, you shall set yourselves towards it; that the people will have no room for debate with you, except those of them who are wicked. You shall not fear them, but fear Me so that I may complete My blessings upon you and that you may be guided.
For those who do not know where the Qiblah is then they can pray in whatever direction they wish. But for those who know where the Qiblah is (through Quranic studies ) then is binding upon them to pray in the direction of the Qiblah unless they are in position where they are uncertain of it's exact direction
Note to all readers Notice that they are only THREE VERSES in the Quran that says to face towards the Restricted Temple. Isn't that Ironic??? I just found out today when I was using quranix.org to check up on some verses.
Where is the word PRAY/PRAYING in the above verses??
Salam / Peace
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Where is the word PRAY/PRAYING in the above verses??
Salam / Peace
Brother Jafar,
I have already given you the answer in one of post before. It is either you missed the post or choose not to acknowledge it.
In addition focal points were used as a direction for pray.
If you read Sura 10871087 We inspired to Moses and his brother "Let your people leave their homes in Egypt, and let these homes be your focal point and hold the contact prayer. Give good news to those who acknowledge."
Contemplate on the phrase in bold
2142 The foolish from amongst the people will say, "What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?" Say, "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path." ? The phrase in bold indicates ( or strongly implies) that the focal point was used for the direction to commemorate God. Isn?t pray a commemoration of God???
Peace ,
Kevin
1087 We inspired to Moses and his brother "Let your people leave their homes in Egypt, and let these homes be your focal point and hold the contact prayer. Give good news to those who acknowledge."
It can be interpreted from the above verse that a Qibla is used during pray.
Also i you look at Sura 2142 and
2142 The foolish from amongst the people will say, "What has turned them away from the focal point(Qibla) that they were on?" Say, "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path."
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who acknowledges God and the Last day, and the angels, and the book, and the prophets, and he gives money out of love to the near relatives, and the orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves, and he observes the Contact prayer, and contributes towards betterment; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and during persecution. These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous.
If you read two verses carefully, you can interpret that turning towards a Qibla was part of commemorating God. Isn't pray a commemoration of God???
In addition , Qibla's were in use long before the Quran even existed . The truth is in history and the previous scriptures.
Peace,
Kevin
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Brother Jafar,
1087 We inspired to Moses and his brother "Let your people leave their homes in Egypt, and let these homes be your focal point and hold the contact prayer. Give good news to those who acknowledge."
It can be interpreted from the above verse that a Qibla is used during pray.
1087 is actually
And we inspired Moses and his brother "TABAWWA LIQAUWMIKUM BI MISRA BUYUTAN WA'JALU BUYUTAQUM QIBLATAN WA AQIMU SALATA WA BASHIRI'L MU'MININ"Meanings of the 'transliterated arabic'
SETTLE/STAY PUT/POST (TABAWWA.. is not leave) your people inside their homes in Egypt and make their homes (BUYUTAQUM is plural) QIBLAT AND Uphold the Shalat And give good news to the mu'min.The context was when Moses initially arrived in Egypt (perhaps prior to the plagues directed specifically towards the egyptians which shall came afterwards and then the embarkation/exodus) and here God was telling the Israelites through Moses to 'stay put in their HOMES (plural) in Egypt, make it as QIBLAT. The notion of WA which means AND denote a separate phrase between BUYUTAQUM QIBLATAN (Make their homes as QIBLAT) and AQIMU SHALATA (uphold the shalat).
The verse actually makes relatively clearer what QIBLAT actually means; it is NOT A CENTRALIZED POINT TO FACE ON PRAYER but more of "PLACE OF GATHERINGS" / "RALLYING POINT" / "STAND IN DEFENSE" or perhaps "FOCUS POINT" for each household as the instruction was to make their own homes in Egypt (not in Jerusalem/Mekka) as respective household QIBLA.
In addition , Qibla's were in use long before the Quran even existed . The truth is in history and the previous scriptures.
I'm intrigue to know on what you think the equivalent Hebrew word for 'Qibla' is?
And perhaps we can look it up in the Tanakh...Again there are no mention of prayer in Al-Baqarah verses on QIBLA.
The verse you quote from chapter Yunus actually instruct the israelites to make their own respective homes in Egypt as QIBLA.Let's for the moment assume that QIBLA is indeed 'a point/location to face towards to in prayer' in accordance to your hypothesis..
- What makes you think that it should be Jerusalem? Why change from 'homes in Egypt' to Jerusalem? When did this happened?
- Is there any record of Israelites still maintaining their (old) homes in Egypt as 'a point/location to face towards to in prayer' after they migrate out of Egypt?? According to the Tanakh it is within an area called "Goshen" on the eastern bank of Nile River.
Salam / Peace
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1087 is actually
And we inspired Moses and his brother "TABAWWA LIQAUWMIKUM BI MISRA BUYUTAN WA'JALU BUYUTAQUM QIBLATAN WA AQIMU SALATA WA BASHIRI'L MU'MININ"Meanings of the 'transliterated arabic'
SETTLE/STAY PUT/POST (TABAWWA.. is not leave) your people inside their homes in Egypt and make their homes (BUYUTAQUM is plural) QIBLAT AND Uphold the Shalat And give good news to the mu'min.The context was when Moses initially arrived in Egypt (perhaps prior to the plagues directed specifically towards the egyptians which shall came afterwards and then the embarkation/exodus) and here God was telling the Israelites through Moses to 'stay put in their HOMES (plural) in Egypt, make it as QIBLAT. The notion of WA which means AND denote a separate phrase between BUYUTAQUM QIBLATAN (Make their homes as QIBLAT) and AQIMU SHALATA (uphold the shalat).
The verse actually makes relatively clearer what QIBLAT actually means; it is NOT A CENTRALIZED POINT TO FACE ON PRAYER but more of "PLACE OF GATHERINGS" / "RALLYING POINT" / "STAND IN DEFENSE" or perhaps "FOCUS POINT" for each household as the instruction was to make their own homes in Egypt (not in Jerusalem/Mekka) as respective household QIBLA.
Brother Jafar,
I won't bother to go through this since it would be futile. You have been on this forum longer than I have and you probably have seen all the arguments dealing with this verse. Arguing with you will be a futile attempt since you are adamant that your translation is end all of all translations. However what do you think about the other two verses which I mentioned in my previous post???? Did you forget about them already?
Again there are no mention of prayer in Al-Baqarah verses on QIBLA.
The verse you quote from chapter Yunus actually instruct the israelites to make their own respective homes in Egypt as QIBLA.Salam / Peace
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that 'Qibla' is not a Hebrew word. However just because the word Qibla isn't used in the previous scriptures doesn't mean that it didn't exist. Ask any Jew today in what direction did they face when they prayed during Biblical times and they will tell you that they faced Jerusalem. Jerusalem( rather The Temple Mount) was used as a focal point for pray. So if Jerusalem was a focal point for pray then yes they had a Qibla(focal point).
I also provided you with a scripture from the Bible to highlight my point already in one of my previous posts ...
Daniel 610 Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before.
Praying towards a Qibla is an established practice that existed long before the Quran.
Again there are no mention of prayer in Al-Baqarah verses on QIBLA.
The verse you quote from chapter Yunus actually instruct the israelites to make their own respective homes in Egypt as QIBLA.Let's for the moment assume that QIBLA is indeed 'a point/location to face towards to in prayer' in accordance to your hypothesis..
- What makes you think that it should be Jerusalem? Why change from 'homes in Egypt' to Jerusalem? When did this happened?
- Is there any record of Israelites still maintaining their (old) homes in Egypt as 'a point/location to face towards to in prayer' after they migrate out of Egypt?? According to the Tanakh it is within an area called "Goshen" on the eastern bank of Nile River.
Salam / Peace
Question 1 (What makes you think that it should be Jerusalem?) Again you have been on this forum much longer than I have. You most likely read all the arguments that lead to Jerusalem to being the Qibla but chose not to believe. But for the sake of decision if you want to see why it should be Jerusalem then check out this thread from the forum Is Jerusalem the Qibla??? http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602528.msg280312#msg280312
Also you can read the Book "The Natural Republic " Chapter 18 "The Lost Lagacy of Abraham"Question 1.5(Why change from 'homes in Egypt' to Jerusalem? When did this happened?) Jerusalem is place of Abraham. This is why Jerusalem was built where it is today. Regarding when the change happen (or if it ever happened for that manner) I suggest you ask Moses or God himself when you reach paradise. (well if you reach paradise).
Question 2 (Is there any record of Israelites still maintaining their (old) homes in Egypt as 'a point/location to face towards to in prayer' after they migrate out of Egypt?? According to the Tanakh it is within an area called "Goshen" on the eastern bank of Nile River.) No there isn't any record in the previous scriptures that the Children of Israel used there homes as focal points
(at least not to my knowledge) however just because there isn't any record of it in the Bible doesn't mean that it didn't exist. There are a few things that are in the Quran that are not in the Bible and they are many things that are in the Bible that is not in the Quran.Peace,
Kevin
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Peace Kevin...
Actually I would like to say thank you to you because you've directed me towards 1087 which explains more regarding this QIBLAT matter.
What we tried to do here is implementing the so-called Scientific Method where every hypothesis proposed need to be rigorously tested and modified until it's found to be within enough satisfaction range to answer specific question.I was born Sunni, I spent 25 years of my life believing that 'Qiblat' is indeed 'a centralized location to face towards to on prayer' and I always disregard the illogicality of such notion upon stumbling the fact that the earth is round like a ball. I used to carry a 'qiblat compass' whenever I go to get the 'truest' direction of Kabbah for prayer. Again I believe that my praying direction shall follow the circumference surface of the earth. But there's always 'something tingling' inside my heart which indicate this might not be true.. but I always disregard it.. Only many years later I totally embrace the conception that "If it smells like shit, it is shit".
I do agree that the perception of 'Qiblat' as a 'direction for prayer' (and it's Jerusalem) is indeed Jewish tradition, as shown by verse from Daniel. Furthermore the follower of Judaism still maintain that habits up until today. Even their grave always faced towards Jerusalem.
It was while studying the Gospel that I realized these
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There were a huge debate among Israelite during Jesus time whether it is Jerusalem or Mt Girzim as the true 'focal point'. It was between the Rabbanic Jews (Pharisees and Saduccess) at one camp and the Samaritans on the other camp. Similar to what happened in this forum; Jerusalem or Mt Girzim? and we have Jerusalem or Makkah?
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There were two living prophets (Jesus and John) during that time, and both of them didn't even bother to settle the dispute, as if it doesn't matter much..
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Furthermore; one of them (Jesus) makes a parable of 'good samaritan' and neither Jesus or John even bother to tell the samaritans to 'reorient their praying direction' towards Jerusalem (if it were indeed Jerusalem as the true focal point and praying towards the focal point is something of importance).
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Both Jesus and John doesn't teach any of their disciples to always face towards something (or towards Jerusalem) on prayer.
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Nevertheless they regard Jerusalem as a city of importance, especially in the context of 'mass rallying point'.
Upon reread the verse shown by you on 1087, my opinion regarding the meanings of Qiblat now sway even more towards 'place of gatherings' / 'rallying point'. As 1087 narrated how Moses were telling the Israelites to gather/rally together within their own place / home.
This relates to the debate of where is this "Masjidil Haram" (The restricted/forbidden temple) which supposed to be the Qiblat / Gathering or Rallying point?
You (and also Layth and some other members of this forum) are in opinion that it is actually Jerusalem..
I'm right now more lenient towards that understanding..I propose the following as the argument
The 'temple mount' in Jerusalem were indeed considered as 'restricted/forbidden' by the jews during Muhammad era, given they considered it as 'being defiled with impurity'.
It was due to the Romans has built statues of their deities within the temple complex, although the statues was being destroyed to rubble during Constantine era, yet the jews still consider the complex as impure and need to be ritually cleansed, a view which last up until today.
As thus; It is mostly probable that the common name for that temple complex in Jerusalem during Muhammad era was indeed "The Forbidden Temple" (Masjidil Haram).Salam / Peace
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no idea if kaaba was previously a temple or not. But I finished reading Aidid Safar's book named 'Mental bondage' lately and the author has proved that Abraham couldn't have made kaaba.
Quran says God never sent any messengers to Arabs before Prophet Muhammad. So could Abraham just go all the way to Makkah, build the kaaba and go back just like that? I mean Abraham would definitely have asked the arabs to help build the house of God. the arabs of makkah must have asked abraham who he was and why was he building the house of God and who told him to do that etc. it's not possible that abraham could have built the kaaba and gone back without telling the arabs that he was a prophet of God. But Quran says the opposite.
So the only logical conclusion is Abraham did not build the kaaba because he never went there.
Aidid Safar has propose a whole new meaning to kaaba. You should read the book if you want to know what kaaba really means.
I know it's hard to digest this, but doesn't it make sense? What do you think?
No one really knows who first built the Kaaba in Mecca but Islamic lore claims that the Kaaba (a box shaped object) was built for the first time by Adam, Than rebuilt by Noah and his family after the flood, and again rebuilt by Abraham after a trek across one of the most if not the deadliest desert in the world with his wife and small child. But there is no way to prove that Noah or Abraham actually had anything to do with the Kaaba much less the pre-flood Adam.
However we do know from recorded history and both old and new archeological finds that the Kaaba and the city of Mecca were a place of pagan worship where there were about 360 idols that were housed inside the Kaaba long before even Jesus was born. Recorded History tells us that a tribe of people whose name was the Jats came from India and settled in several countries now known as Bahrain, Yemen, Syria, and also Saudi Arabia in and around the city of Medina as well as other parts of Arab land. They brought with them a religion known as Vedism or Vedic Brahmanism which was the historical predecessor of Hinduism. They worshiped the elements like fire, rivers, and heroic gods such as Indra who is the King of the gods in the Rig Veda, the early collection of Hindu hymns. They were also astronomers who worshiped the nine known planets of the day and the consolations
King Vikramaditya was a legendary monarch who ruled Ujjain in India who was considered to be a just and benevolent king whose wisdom, valor and magnanimity was well known. Scholars believe that King Vikramaditya conquered Arabia. He lived during that first century and his preachers were very successful in spreading the Vedic Hindu sacred scriptures in Arabia, converting Arabs to Vedic Hinduism and the religions way of life.
The word ?Kaaba, or Kabah, or Caaba? came from the Tamil language which originated sometime around 1700 B.C. In Tamil Nadu there is a temple for the Hindu god Shiva named Kabaalishwaran and the word ?Kabaali" refers to Lord Shiva.
Proofs of these facts are available in what is called the ?Sayar-ul-Okul?. It is one among several volumes of ancient west Asian literature. The Turkish ruler Sultan Salim ordered an anthology to be compiled of ancient Arabic poetry from an earlier work in 1742 A.D. The pages of this volume are made of a kind of silk. According to Arab legend there was a plaque or dish that was hung in the Kaaba with an inscription on it about King Vikramaditya. On page 315 of the Sayar-ul-Okul volume which is in the treasured Makhtab-e-Sulania library in Istanbul Turkey and in the English language here is what the inscription says.?Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during King Vikram?s reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf, we Arabs were caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of education is the result of favor of the noble King Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us-foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made cognizant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart education at King Vikramaditya?s behest?
So by this evidence of recorded history we have proof that King Vikramaditya conquered, lived, ruled in Arabia and educated the people of Arabia in the Vedic religion that was based on the Vedac, which are the Hindu sacred scriptures.
Among the many idols that were housed in the Kaaba were al-Lat, al-Uzza, Allah and Manat who are all mentioned in the Quran in chapter 53 and were goddesses.
The name ?Allah? was not at all revealed to Mohammed by the angel Gabriel because we know from recorded history that the name ?Allah? was used to speak of ?The God? in Arabia in pre-Islamic times. The Muslim word ?Kaaba? is used to speak of the ?House of God? and the pagan god Hubal was considered to be the chief god of all of the gods that were housed in the Kaaba. But he wasn?t thought to be the only god. The pre-Islamic Arabs believed that Allah which was the same God as Hubal which was a Moon god. They also believed that Hubal had associates or companion gods as well as sons and daughters and the three goddesses mentioned above were the daughters of Allah/Hubal. This pre-Islamic ?Allah? was considered to be the provider for the people, the most powerful of all of the gods and the god every Meccan prayed to in times of trouble. This belief in Allah/Hubal was practiced throughout southern Syria and northern Arabia. He was worshiped as a moon god and as another bit of proof Muhammed?s own father?s name had the word ?Allah? in it ?Abd- Allah or Abdallah or Abdullah? which means ?slave or worshiper of God?. Even the Quran verifies that the pagans believed in one god that was higher than the rest. Surah 2961 If indeed you ask them who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law), they will certainly reply, "Allah". How are they then deluded away (from the truth)? (Translated by Yusuf Ali)
The fact of the matter is that even though Muhammed rejected all other gods except the one Allah, Muhammed in an effort to gain more converts compromised his integrity by allowing pagan ritual and practices to continue in the Islamic religion. This is where the crescent moon comes from on the Islamic Flag but that is not the end of it. The hajj for example was a pagan practiced when hundreds or thousands of pagans would come to Mecca on a certain day to worship the deity or god of choice so the Hajj or the annual pilgrimage to Mecca was nothing new to the pre-Islamic Meccans. The ritual of circulating around the Kaaba is yet another ritual that is barrowed from Hinduism and the black stone is no exception. Again it is the Islamic belief that Adam first had the stone on his alter which was lost in the flood, after that it was Abraham who found the black stone and ordered his son Ishmael to build a new temple in which to house the sacred stone which is supposed to be in the Kaaba in Mecca. But again it is virtually impossible to prove this chain of events.
Islamic tradition also believes that in 602 Muhammed played a key part in the rebuilding of the Kaaba. The black stone needed to be temporarily removed from the Kaaba while the new construction was done and a quarrel erupted between the clans in Mecca as to which clan should have the right to re-set the stone back into its place. Muhammed suggested that the clan elders would raise the stone in a cloak and then Muhammed would with his own hands set the stone into its final resting place and there is some ancient art that depicts that event.Sorry the picture did not transfer.
This art depicts a time when the Kaaba was still a polytheistic shrine before the founding of Islam. So we know that Muhammed was at one time a pagan and the stone is still just as much of a pagan symbol today as it was in pre-Islamic days. -
The kabba was not built by Abaham(p.b.u.h.)but was rebuilt.The origins of the Kabba go back to Adam.It was rebuilt by Noah(p.b.u.h.)after the flood and when Abraham(p.b.u.h.) ans Ishmeal(p.b.u.h.)found it in need of repair and rebuilt it.Hope this clears things up for you. And to you people saying that Abraham(p.b.u.h.) didnt build the Kabba because he wasnt in Arabia because he couldnt have been a prophet ithout telling the arabs you should know there where no arabs there considering the arab line dosent start until Ishmael(p.b.u.h.).ther were no arabs there.Also the teachings of Abaham(p.b.u.h.)survived with a small group who were neither Christian nor Jewish who became know as Hanifs.
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The kabba was not built by Abaham(p.b.u.h.)but was rebuilt.The origins of the Kabba go back to Adam.It was rebuilt by Noah(p.b.u.h.)after the flood and when Abraham(p.b.u.h.) ans Ishmeal(p.b.u.h.)found it in need of repair and rebuilt it.Hope this clears things up for you. And to you people saying that Abraham(p.b.u.h.) didnt build the Kabba because he wasnt in Arabia because he couldnt have been a prophet ithout telling the arabs you should know there where no arabs there considering the arab line dosent start until Ishmael(p.b.u.h.).ther were no arabs there.Also the teachings of Abaham(p.b.u.h.)survived with a small group who were neither Christian nor Jewish who became know as Hanifs.
Peace,
Do you believe that Jesus (or Moses, Salmon, Dawod) was Hanif?
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i think most of these quranists sites are closet zionists intent on destroying islam.
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and no i believe they were muslims since they submited theirselves to Allah.being jewish is following rabbis and their evil Talmud.
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and no i believe they were muslims since they submited theirselves to Allah.being jewish is following rabbis and their evil Talmud.
Thank you. If they were hanifs, why they did not answer Abraham call to make hajj...Non of them have visited Macca, rather, all of them ignored Macca and made hajj to Jerusalem.
Brother, this was the turning point for me after it was mentioned to me by one of the members. There is no trace of any prophet that have visited Macca...Even Prophet Mohamed has no trace there.
Peace
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Very good observation. It doesn't matter Abraham built it or not.. this kind of ritual is nothing but idolatry..
This reply is really a general one in relation to idolatry and what that constitutes. I often feel confused when people discuss it because I have seen first hand the way some people worship or practice - not just in Islam but also in Christianity and Buddhism - and while sometimes it does seem as though they are 'worshipping' the statues (or other things), in reality that is not always the case.
For examply in Buddhism, at least in the Buddhism with which I am familiar, the idea is that the statues are a 'focus' in meditation and whatever other practices they do, and also a reminder. There is nothing idolatrous (hope that word is correct) about that (in my opinion). Of couse not everyone would stop at that, for some the lines might blur, but the basic point is that just because a statue is involved it doesn't mean that a person is praying to the statue, devoted to the statue, imbibing the statue with elements and powers that it clearly doesn't have.
We can't always know what goes on in someone elses mind and I think that makes it difficult to make judgements regarding concepts like shirk.
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i think most of these quranists sites are closet zionists intent on destroying islam.
and no i believe they were muslims since they submited theirselves to Allah.being jewish is following rabbis and their evil Talmud.
D Kindly tell me then..
- What is islam and how to destroy it?
- If 'being jewish' is to follow rabbis and talmud, what do you think to those who follow imams/sheikhs/scholars and their 'ijma ulema'?