Sana'a manuscripts
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Ask to see copies of the manuscripts so you can take note of the the differences. I am interested too. Supposedly a german took photos of the manuscript in '97 but I have yet to see a publication outlining the differences. I have heard people say that the differences are only in the punctuation which lend it to be interpreted differently if desired.
As the qu'ran was also widely orally transmitted, it could be the case that the author/s of the Sanna manuscript made some errors when they wrote it down and it when the authenticated version became known, it was hidden.
Whatever the case, I am interested in seeing it and will have to wait until I do give it some serious consideration. Your atheist friend has decided s/he doesn't need to before jumping to a conclusion.
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The major issue was that they put the text under infrared and they found another text written first on the media. So they conclud that it was not a final written text but a "drafted" version!!!
One guy argued simply that this copy of Quran was "home made" and the lake of "media" obliged the scrib to clean and rewrite everything when he was mistaking, which was not the case of the so wrongly called copy of "Uthman" who had the help and support (money) of the "caliphs" to make a descent copy.regards
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This is a quote from the wiki link referenced
My idea is that the Koran is a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants. The Qur?an claims for itself that it is ?mubeen,? or clear, but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn?t make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur?anic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur?an is not comprehensible, if it can?t even be understood in Arabic, then it?s not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur?an claims repeatedly to be clear but is not?there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on.
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I am a Muslim and I have been researching on Quran for the past 10 years. It is obvious that the Quran is scrambled. That is, the verses are compiled out of the order of revelation. I belive this either happened inadverterntly or else purposefully after the period of the 4 khalifas. Any new discovery into an older manuscript will throw light into this. So, as a Muslim I am happy to hear about he Sanaa manuscripts.
But findings on the Sanaa scripts have not yet been published. Only a few article had come out in some magazines or journals. The discrepancies found are mainly in the order of the chapters and in the variable recitations. None of these are new information.
I believe the original quran is still the words of God. But that may not be what we have in out hands now. Any new discovery will lead us to the truth only. And I think it is very early now to make conclusions. Because the work on thousand of the parchments is still on and no info is been published other than a few leading comments by the non-Muslim researchers. Let us wait until they finish their work.
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I am a Muslim and I have been researching on Quran for the past 10 years. It is obvious that the Quran is scrambled. That is, the verses are compiled out of the order of revelation. I belive this either happened inadverterntly or else purposefully
after the period of the 4 khalifas.
Are you a sectarian to believe such a khalifas existed? do your research brother, you will realise that none of the hsitory of Islam is true, in cluding names, alla fabrication, there was no prophet after Jesus that is called mohamed, for the simple reason that MOHAMED is a position that was atteigned by JESUS, Mohamed is Jesus, and Jesus is MohamedAllah said in the quran , some messengers we told you their stories, and some we didn't, well in the same time, the quran conatins everything, including every single name of prophets that existed.
some are Abraham , moses, etc... with their stories
some are prophet mentioned only by names but their stry wasn't told, ex , Dhu Kiffl, Dhu noon , TAHA, YASIN etc...every book of allah is a quran, the torah is a quran, the injeel is a quran, etc... and the book we have in our hands, is the torah, injeel etc... surah HUD is injeel of Isa, for exemple
Prophet Ahmed is yet to come, and mohamed(jesus) is the seal, and not the last prophet
now, that prophet Ahmed is in this world, there is a wide consciousness around the world about the quran, and there is also a big mouvement of the kabalas illuminati preparing to fight him , they know this because the Star of the East appeared lately, you can see it early at night, even if it is couldy you can see it
that is why they tried to cover this event by myths of nibiru etc... but they can't hide it for too long, big war is coming upon humanity, same will happen like the time of feraon.
read the illuominati cards, and put in your mind that 'changing history' card, is a part of the past, they already changed history, that is why we dn't realise many things, and that is why we will always be confused until someone takes the reign of the world, and his name is Ahmed, and for dicversion they ceated the anagram Mahdeesalam
salamAny new discovery into an older manuscript will throw light into this. So, as a Muslim I am happy to hear about he Sanaa manuscripts.
But findings on the Sanaa scripts have not yet been published. Only a few article had come out in some magazines or journals. The discrepancies found are mainly in the order of the chapters and in the variable recitations. None of these are new information.
I believe the original quran is still the words of God. But that may not be what we have in out hands now. Any new discovery will lead us to the truth only. And I think it is very early now to make conclusions. Because the work on thousand of the parchments is still on and no info is been published other than a few leading comments by the non-Muslim researchers. Let us wait until they finish their work.
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Ah, the damn star of the east that makes every one go insane...
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Ah, the damn star of the east that makes every one go insane...
the question is what is it doing in the sky, and why there is no explanation about this star at all, saudi arabia said it is a planet, some say it is a star that exploded a few million years ago , and it will disapear in 3 or 4 years and the bible says it is a star that announce new prophets/messengers/messiah etc... like moses and jesus and mohamed in hadiths
well i never believed in such a thing, but seen this star at night, with my own eyes, and seen all the killing that is happening in the north african and arab world, wich is in reality children of israel, the true ones, because an arab race never existed, for Arab is a language and not a race, well, i never believed in such a thing as the eastern star, but the coincidence is striking between it's aprearance and the allged arab revolutions lately
well, maybe i been superstitious , but i know many believe inb this star, that is un surah Najm assocoated directly with Wahy, inspiration of a prophet
allah knows best -
Please loxbox13, could you please elaborate some more on this Ahmad coming topic, and this Eastern Star, it is so very interesting.
Thank you
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I think it is always good to ask these types of questions. With all due respect to everybody on the forum, I think ultimately, an individual doesn't need a religious text to know how to properly interact with reality. You know what is right and what is wrong. God hardwired that into your heart. For the sincere seeker of God, it is my opinion that the most important activity is a regular prayer/meditation practice. This establishes a direct link to the infinite, which should be the goal of any seeker (no matter what religious label you use).
One thing I've learned in life is that the problem with conspiracy theories is that half of them are probably true. At the very least, it is obvious to most of us at this forum that the Koran has at times been purposely mistranslated in order for religious leaders to establish dominance over other people's minds/actions.
"Jesus is Mohammed and Mohammed is Jesus." Could you talk about this a little more? I am very interested in what you have to say about this.
Let's all keep striving for truth, no matter where it leads us. LOVE.
sun
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I agree with you the path of light, and, it is the first time after reading a loooot through posts of this Forum, that I read the word LOVE which you wrote at the end of your post.
What a wonderful refreshment ) -
Peace, Godsubmitter.
I figure that no matter where we are at in our striving toward higher consciousness (Godward), love is always a common ground.
Not so much any more, but my mind used to get pretty chaotic when reading through different interpretations of religious texts and history. God willing, we will soon emerge from this age of deception into an age of wisdom and enlightenment.
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Gerd Puin found that the San?a manuscripts bore a previously written script on the same parchment which either faded away or was intentionally deleted. From this he concluded that the script was originally an earlier and different version of the Quran, that is to say, Mr Puin believes that the Quran was not written in a space of 20 years, but it in fact came about through gradual evolution being constantly changed and updated according to the times and to the author?s fancy.
What Gerd Puin fails to mention however, is that in the 6th century, people did not have the luxury of readily available milled paper. Their primary source of writing material was parchment or leather; and writing on stones and bones was not unheard of. Thus, is it not reasonable to suggest that those same pieces of parchment upon which the Sana Manuscripts were written had been previously used for the purposes of recording some financial transaction, or as letters, or for a treatise on pre-Islamic religious ideas, or for recording the political events of the time, and so on and so forth?
So I ask, does Gerd Puin?s discoveries serve as sufficient evidence to validate his proposition?
Further, dialectic variations were, in my view, invariably coupled with orthogrpahic variations. Thus, two different regions in the Peninsula, or two different tribes, would have pronounced and written the same word differently. So if the "official" Quranic text had not reached them from Muhammad, but they only heard it, then they would have written it according to their own orthographic conventions.
There really is little to go by in terms of the San'a Manuscripts, not until Puin's work is published, or the Yemeni government allows research to be conducted on the Manuscripts. Let's hope they're preserved safely until then.
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loxbox, why are you holding out on us? I really want to hear this. Peace.