Why I believe in the return of Isa

TruthBehindIt

Salam and Peace!

Silly and Illogical!-------Now are you going to have firm Iman in the Sehar story of "Isa, Mahdi and dajjaal"???

So, you have opened the door for all falsehoods and Sehar, with this wrong interpretation of Quranic Verse!

-----"There is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them." (4159)

"believe in him"------believe in Isa, that he died a natural death, and neither was crucified nor was murdered.

"before his death"-----The people of the Book, before their own deaths, will believe this.

And moreover, this Verse

-----"Muhammad is no more than a Rasul, surely the Rasuls before him have already passed away. If then he dies or be killed, will you turn upon your heels? (3144)

So, all the Rasools, even Isa, have died.

That is the reason, logic, that I believe that Isa has died and never will come back.

MaverickMonotheist

"There is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them." (4159)

This verse establishes quite clearly that Isa is not dead, and thus establishes that the true meaning of mutawaffeeka (used in verse 355) is not "cause you to die" as some Qur'anists claim but rather "take thee".

Since the Qur'an establishes that "every human being is bound to taste death" (2957), I conclude that Isa is going to return.

For Christians, belief in Jesus' resurrection is more important than his life and teachings. The Quran is saying that the thing to be believed in is Jesus before his death, i.e., what he did and taught. The conjecture about his death and resurrection is unimportant, and Jesus will make clear to Christians on the day of resurrection that they would have been better to follow his teachings instead of constructing theologies about the resurrection.

FWIW, the likelihood is that he did die a violent death, either by crucifixion (gospel account) or hanging (Talmud account). The swoon theory has no credibility.

Peace,
Joel

The_Dreamer

Why did you rename the word "The book" in to the Torah/Engeel????

I did not.

And The word Salaboh is not "crucify him".

Look

look "You believed him before I gave you permission. Indeed, he is your leader who has taught you magic. So I will surely cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and I will aslobonakom in the trunks of palm trees, and you will surely know which of us is more severe in punishment and more enduring

how will he crucify them after cutting off their hands and feet???? how?? and how will he Crucify them IN the palm tree not ON?????

Uhh, I really have no idea how this has anything to do with my post...

SeekingYou

I meant that the word salb in the Qur'an is far away from the cross....and that Ahl el ketab doesn't mean Christians or jews of today...

And Jesus is not Isa...

The_Dreamer

I meant that the word salb in the Qur'an is far away from the cross....and that Ahl el ketab doesn't mean Christians or jews of today...

And Jesus is not Isa...

And that has nothing to do with anything I posted

GODsubmitter

the trick is played in the arabic language
the quran isn't in arabic language, but lissan arabi (masculine) , may be interpreted arab tongue
reading the quran through arabic dictionnary is the biggest mistake the whole muslim made, you want to understand the quran, you have to learn more than arabic language, englih/frensh/spanish
the language of the quran, is the ASMAA that allah thaught the 1st men,
from the language of the quran, sprang all languages, if you accept this theory, and make a research of the quran in all languages , you be stunned , and than you realise that not a single word is left in it's meaning from the quran.
I give an exemple
the word
SABR , is arabic dictianneries , it means patience , so let's look at this word is every language
Frensh = Sobre , English = Sober, spanish/italian = Sobre .... so in evey language, Sober means been sober , except in arabic language, means passiv patience??? strange
Ina allah yuhubou sabirine , ALLAH LOVES THOSE WHO ARE SOBER -makes more sense than allah love who are patient-
another exemple
Quistuce
word looks like this one in other languages is
eng=Justice , Fr=Justice Sp = Justice
when you translate Quistace into justice , the verse quistace mustaqueem makes perfect sense to means the upright justice, while in arabic they say it is a persian word, even though allah says QURAN ARABIC. meaning every word is init's original arabic tngue.
when you do all this, you will realise that we understand the quran backward, than you will understand clearly that ISA is dead, he will not come back, and best of all, he wasn't born of a virgin but a father like everyone else. look for the word ROOH , you will realise that jesus had a father.
salam

THIS IS WONDERFUL loxbox13 !!!
WHAT AN EYE OPENER!
I agree about the logic of sabr sober sobrio etc... will try to learn the Quran language and not Arabic.
As there is one Reality=Allah, there must be one ur-language that Adam learned from where all the languages spread, as from him all people were born...

the_path_of_light

I was going to start my first thread about this, but I this is a good place to put it.

New Testament vs. Koran on the issue of adultery

Koran The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity overtake you regarding the system of God if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment. ~242

New Testament Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say? 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first. 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?
11 She said, No one, Lord.
And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more. John 82-11

the_path_of_light

Now obviously, both the Koran and the New Testament offer a better solution than stoning another human being to death. But on this particular topic, I think forgiveness is superior to one-hundred lashings (the thought of which literally hurts my stomach). So yeah, I'll go with the New Testament on this one.

I know, I'm going to hell.

D

unknownuser

Perhaps you may be reminded that 100 lashings is nothing compared to the pain of a child growing up father/motherless.

Does that hurt your stomach?

the_path_of_light

I don't understand what you're saying. I've already acknowledged that 100 lashings is better than getting stoned to death. But even better than one-hundred lashing is forgiveness.

I feel like an argument is coming, but I'm not sure what the sides are. I'll get back to you later. Peace.

Layth

Dear path of light,

Quranic law is not something you can "pick and chose" it is really all or nothing.

Mazhar

I give an exemple
the word
SABR , is arabic dictianneries , it means patience , so let's look at this word is every language
Frensh = Sobre , English = Sober, spanish/italian = Sobre .... so in evey language, Sober means been sober , except in arabic language, means passiv patience??? strange

so?ber
adjective (comparative so?ber?er, superlative so?ber?est)

not intoxicated not under the influence of drugs or alcohol
tending not to drink not in the habit of drinking much alcohol or using drugs
serious serious and thoughtful in demeanor or quality
a sober face
dull lacking vitality or brightness in appearance
He always dresses in sober colors.
not fanciful or speculative based on facts and rational thinking rather than on speculation
a sober assessment of the situation

transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle so?bered, present participle so?ber?ing, 3rd person present singular so?bers)

Same as sober up
become or make somebody serious to become more serious or thoughtful, or make somebody become so
His expression sobered.

-so?ber?ly, , adverb
-so?ber?ness, , noun
Microsoft? Encarta? 2006. ? 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

pa?tient
adjective

capable of waiting able to endure waiting, delay, or provocation without becoming annoyed or upset
capable of persevering able to persevere calmly, especially when faced with difficulties

The positive aspect in sober is also built in the word patient.

the_path_of_light

Dear path of light,

Quranic law is not something you can "pick and chose" it is really all or nothing.

I respectfully disagree.

GODsubmitter

I respectfully disagree.

ME TOO!

the_path_of_light

Dear path of light,

Quranic law is not something you can "pick and chose" it is really all or nothing.

This is potentially very dangerous thinking on your part. This is the type of mindset that leads to intolerance, which breeds violence. Some of you are in danger of becoming just another dangerous sect of religious fundamentalists.

Like it or not, you are going to have to accept people like me. There are a lot of heretics in the world taking their relationship with the Infinite Creator into their own hands. I actually can pick and choose from different traditions. When you say I can't pick and choose from Quranic law, what exactly does that mean? Physically, I can do it. I pick up the book, and am free to interpret/accept/reject things from it as I am guided. Are you saying I am not allowed? I thought there was no compulsion in religion. I take a creative approach to my spirituality. Deal with it.

I find it really frightening that somebody would take it upon themselves to dictate how another sentient being interacts with God. God is bigger than any book. It says as much in the Koran.

That being said, I respect your opinion because you are a living, breathing creation of God.

Mazhar

Quote from Layth on Yesterday at 124518 AM
Dear path of light,

Quranic law is not something you can "pick and chose" it is really all or nothing.

This is potentially very dangerous thinking on your part. This is the type of mindset that leads to intolerance, which breeds violence. Some of you are in danger of becoming just another dangerous sect of religious fundamentalists.

And if it is taken to mean what Layeth has said as conveying this injunction then!!!!

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.85f.gif
Is it for reason that you accept some part of the Book and reject/deny some part of the Book?

The consequence would be
Therefore, the return/reward/punishment for anyone amongst you who does this act of accepting some and refusing some part of the Book shall be nothing except disgrace/ignominy in the life of this world; and on the Day of Judgment such people shall be taken to the grievous torture/chastisement. Beware, Allah, the Exalted is never unmindful about that which acts you people are/keep doing.

the_path_of_light

And if it is taken to mean what Layeth has said as conveying this injunction then!!!!

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.85f.gif
Is it for reason that you accept some part of the Book and reject/deny some part of the Book?

The consequence would be
Therefore, the return/reward/punishment for anyone amongst you who does this act of accepting some and refusing some part of the Book shall be nothing except disgrace/ignominy in the life of this world; and on the Day of Judgment such people shall be taken to the grievous torture/chastisement. Beware, Allah, the Exalted is never unmindful about that which acts you people are/keep doing.

Mazhar, I hope you can rest easily knowing that your god is going to send me "to the grievous torture." I'm sure that brings you a lot of joy. You put the fun in religious fundamentalism.

)

Mazhar

This/here is that Book, you will find all the time reading it, which has the characteristic that within its contents there is absolutely no suspicious/conjectural/whimsical/conflicting/un-certain/illusory/perplexing/disconcerting matter, causing distraught emotional uncertain states/psychological disturbance. .

This emphatic and absolute negation of presence of any statement within the Book, that might cause disturbance, disquiet or agitation of minds and hearts, helps satisfy your concern, apprehension and uncertainty regarding achievement of the objective of reading a book. This negation might place your mind in tranquil state since it subtly suggests that you will certainly find in the Book nothing but the established and proven truth, a source of tranquility of heart and mind.

However, if your claim is that you are a truth seeker then it has also created an obligation upon you; now you cannot refuse reading it otherwise you will expose yourself, that in fact you are not a truth-seeker but a prisoner of own thoughts and passions. A truth seeker is never biased, prejudiced and whimsical. He is left with no option but to read the Book and accept its contents or venture to prove them wrong. Being claimant of truth-seeker, you have to read it. Reading of a book creates a liability and obligation upon the reader. He has either to accept its words or discard its version by a counter argument and evidence of fact negating its statement.

Introduction of Qur'aan The only Infinitely Reliable Book

GODsubmitter

Listen Mazhar,

your translation might be even right or quite accurate, but that doesn't entitle you to force it upon anybody else.
I see a lot of proselytism (hidden and open) in many posts in this Forum. ("No obligation in religion!&quot

If the Quran is Word of God, and is meant for all mankind, then even a woman who cleans the corridors and stairways in my building, who is half-educated, should understand it when reading it, because she is also a Muslim and reads the Quran.

The Quran is meant for each and everyone to be understood and accepted to his best abilities. Only a messenger with some kind of proof (as Rashad Khalifa for example) could be entitled to give some kind of interpretation and purify Quran's application! Otherwise its vague approximate deciphering can lead to infinite nonsense and contradictions. The good example is the ongoing debate about salat and ritual prayer which can be read in corresponding posts.

Reading of a book creates a liability and obligation upon the reader. He has either to accept its words or discard its version by a counter argument and evidence of fact negating its statement.

Quran doesn't say that, who says that? you?

Mazhar

Quote
Reading of a book creates a liability and obligation upon the reader. He has either to accept its words or discard its version by a counter argument and evidence of fact negating its statement.

Quran doesn't say that, who says that? you?

My quote was with relation to a truth seeker.
It did not include the cheats since Rashad Khalifa did not understand this basic principle of reading a book, therefore, it does not make sense to you and thereby you pronounce authoritatively that Qur'aan does not say that.

Reading a book is an act and act is done when there is a stimuli, an objective in mind desired to be achieved through the intended act.

For a cheat reading a book might not create an obligation upon him to follow in life, in letter and spirit, its injunctions, information and other contents since the nature of stimuli was different.

But for those who read the book under the stimuli of finding and knowing the truth, the book does creeate an obligation that he should adopt and follow it in his life.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.092.gif
And this is the Book , We have sent it. This has been given permanence and perpetuation/the striking peculiarity of it is that it is prescribed/stay for ever.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.155.gif
Therefore you people physically follow the Grand Qur'aan in letter and spirit/without in between there being intervention of third party, and remain cautious avoiding unrestrained conduct so that you people may get mercy/salvation.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.003c.gif
You people physically follow, in letter and spirit without in between there being intervention of third party, that Book/Grand Qur'aan which has since been sent for you people from your Sustainer Lord