Does anyone know where I can find a Suni?

Jafar

But I have a question - what about polytheists (i.e Hindus, Animists), what about them. Of course I have the same opinion for them too but what is your opinion?

A very good and interesting question, let's start with the foundational principles

We are not in authority / position to judge. As thus I will always always try to avoid condemning / labeling any group as 'resident of hell'.
We are told of not to debate on rites/commandments or other petty stuff our 'job' is to invite people to their Rabb.
I want to exclude 'animist' for this discussion as it is not clear on what you do mean by 'animist' in this case. Again 'animist' is a common stereo-typing regarding some cultures which outsider doesn't understand in entirely.
Hinduism is a complex 'thing', it's more of a 'cultural group' rather than a sect. There are hundred of sects within Hinduism cultural group, and each differs greatly against each others. As thus 'hinduism' cannot be analyzed as 'hinduism' yet we need to dive down to each individual sects.

But for the sake of discussion let's assume something as popularly known from 'common non-hindus' people (such as me) regarding what hinduism is.

They have a 'figure' of 'something which is Absolute', they named It as Brahman. From my perspective this is 'the one true God' known as YHVH by the israelites, Allah by the Arabs and "The Father" by the christians.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman
As thus it is wise to invite them to "Brahman" and tell them that they can reach "Brahman" directly without any help from any intermediaries such as priest, deities, statues and so on.
They have conception of "Deva" and commonly mis-translated as "gods". Deva in sanskrit actually mean "light/shining beings". Krishna is one of the most popular "Deva". Some of them believe that this "Deva" is the 'incarnation' of the 'supreme absolute' (Brahman) or 'avatar' of the 'supreme Absolute' (Brahman). In many ways I see the similarity between "Deva" conception in Hinduism with "Malaikat" (Angel) conception within semitic culture. Nevertheless the act of 'praying','praising' (Puja) the "deva" is useless.. as the 'supreme absolute' can be reached directly without their intermediaries.
Sidharta Gautama also think in the same manner.. that's why he think "puja" is useless and advising his follower on meditation instead to 'reach' the 'supreme Absolute'.
They strongly believe in a law of 'karma' which I think it is very true and known in the west as 'golden rule'. This is one of the plus point I see within hinduism. They see that 'belief' doesn't matter yet 'action' does.. which again I strongly subscribe.
They strongly believe in 'reincarnation', which I have no comment now..
Most importantly there are many good hindus, they are compassionate, honest, helpful etc.. and I consider them as my 'brothers and sisters'.

That's my opinion.. at the moment..
Feel free to comment..

Salam / Peace / Om Santi Santi Om

Tyler_Durden

Hey guys,

sorry to butt in here. I know most of you have probably stopped checking the SF thread, however the discussion is still ongoing haa. I am at uni at the moment so don't have too much time to answer the good and valid questions that they are now posting. Just a heads up, if you do check the thread, obviously feel free to post there or post here and I will try and make that point. Here is the thread again. (I don't know but I feel like we have got to a point in the discussion where both sides are listening to each other. So it would be good if you guys, because you are way more knowledgable than me, to pop in some advice. No worries if you can't!!!)

Here's the thread again.

http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79213-Why-do-you-believe-in-hadith

PS, here is something I saw on the forum http//www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?79157-Women-working-problem-of-divorce-polygamy-and-some-other-issues/page28

see post 276. I just think that such rules against women are so archaic and patriarchal and outdated. I just felt so sorry for strict sunni women when I read this - I don't mean that in a patronising way - just in a logical one. How can somebody saying such things about your gender not bring you down?

Again, sorry for butting in.

PS Indelwyn, do you know the quote for that hadith you mentioned. Could be useful. Thaanks

Cheers,

Pakistani_Assassin

A very good and interesting question, let's start with the foundational principles

We are not in authority / position to judge. As thus I will always always try to avoid condemning / labeling any group as 'resident of hell'.
We are told of not to debate on rites/commandments or other petty stuff our 'job' is to invite people to their Rabb.
I want to exclude 'animist' for this discussion as it is not clear on what you do mean by 'animist' in this case. Again 'animist' is a common stereo-typing regarding some cultures which outsider doesn't understand in entirely.
Hinduism is a complex 'thing', it's more of a 'cultural group' rather than a sect. There are hundred of sects within Hinduism cultural group, and each differs greatly against each others. As thus 'hinduism' cannot be analyzed as 'hinduism' yet we need to dive down to each individual sects.

But for the sake of discussion let's assume something as popularly known from 'common non-hindus' people (such as me) regarding what hinduism is.

They have a 'figure' of 'something which is Absolute', they named It as Brahman. From my perspective this is 'the one true God' known as YHVH by the israelites, Allah by the Arabs and "The Father" by the christians.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman
As thus it is wise to invite them to "Brahman" and tell them that they can reach "Brahman" directly without any help from any intermediaries such as priest, deities, statues and so on.
They have conception of "Deva" and commonly mis-translated as "gods". Deva in sanskrit actually mean "light/shining beings". Krishna is one of the most popular "Deva". Some of them believe that this "Deva" is the 'incarnation' of the 'supreme absolute' (Brahman) or 'avatar' of the 'supreme Absolute' (Brahman). In many ways I see the similarity between "Deva" conception in Hinduism with "Malaikat" (Angel) conception within semitic culture. Nevertheless the act of 'praying','praising' (Puja) the "deva" is useless.. as the 'supreme absolute' can be reached directly without their intermediaries.
Sidharta Gautama also think in the same manner.. that's why he think "puja" is useless and advising his follower on meditation instead to 'reach' the 'supreme Absolute'.
They strongly believe in a law of 'karma' which I think it is very true and known in the west as 'golden rule'. This is one of the plus point I see within hinduism. They see that 'belief' doesn't matter yet 'action' does.. which again I strongly subscribe.
They strongly believe in 'reincarnation', which I have no comment now..
Most importantly there are many good hindus, they are compassionate, honest, helpful etc.. and I consider them as my 'brothers and sisters'.

That's my opinion.. at the moment..
Feel free to comment..

Salam / Peace / Om Santi Santi Om

Hmm yes, I agree with much of what you say. I guess it was wrong to include Animists as Polytheists "Animism" is really the culture of most of those that practice it.

However what about neo-pagans, wiccans, satanists? What do you have to say about them?

Jafar

However what about neo-pagans, wiccans, satanists? What do you have to say about them?

Enlighten me more please i have minimum knowledge on those...

The word 'satanist' and 'pagans' usually serves as 'derogatory' remarks towards any group of people considered to be a 'threat' or 'enemy' by another group of people.

During the middle ages, Sunnis/Shiites are being labeled as both 'satanist' and 'pagans' by the catholic church.
As thus serve as a valid pretext for 'invasion'..(read crusade)

Salam / Peace

jeffry

Salam to all,

Indelwyn - I did try a search on the book being disputed, but cudnt find any.....as yet.

Peace

Pakistani_Assassin

Enlighten me more please i have minimum knowledge on those...

The word 'satanist' and 'pagans' usually serves as 'derogatory' remarks towards any group of people considered to be a 'threat' or 'enemy' by another group of people.

During the middle ages, Sunnis/Shiites are being labeled as both 'satanist' and 'pagans' by the catholic church.
As thus serve as a valid pretext for 'invasion'..(read crusade)

Salam / Peace

Not referring to anyone in a derogatory manner.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Neopagan_movements#

Indelwyn

Thanks for the post Assassin.

Jeffry, Thanks so much for looking. I heard this on Quranist Tv, I was just wondering if you knew anything about it.

Just a comment on Jafar talking how the Church would call Muslims "satanist" It is VERY interesting to compare the Christian Anti-Christ to the Muslim Al-Mahdi. They are almost identical, or I should say the Mahdi matches almost every aspect of the Anti-Christ in the Bible.

Just something interesting to chew on.

Jafar

Just a comment on Jafar talking how the Church would call Muslims "satanist" It is VERY interesting to compare the Christian Anti-Christ to the Muslim Al-Mahdi. They are almost identical, or I should say the Mahdi matches almost every aspect of the Anti-Christ in the Bible.

Just something interesting to chew on.

The figure of "Dajjal" is actually the sunni/shiite version of xtians 'anti-christ'.
How Mahdi came up to the myth I don't know.. it is told in the myth of hadiths that Jesus and Mahdi shall play a tag-team (just like Batman and Robin) against the anti-christ/dajjal.

The church always call everyone who are not 'aligned' with them as 'satanist'... they even call musicians as satanist (yeep just like the sunnis)

Salam / Peace

Jafar

Not referring to anyone in a derogatory manner.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Neopagan_movements#

So this is a 'revival' of 'old native European traditions' which was being suppressed for many centuries by the catholic church?
Have you met any of them in real life?
What's the essence of their teachings?

Do they have 'human sacrifice' ritual? or anything which involves wrapping bomb on the waist or other suicidal actions?
If not.. well at least they're relatively better than the Sunni extremist..

Salam / Peace

Indelwyn

Jafar, I actually did mean the Mahdi.

I can post some things to show you what I mean, it is weird.

Let me know, if know one minds I'll make a thread about it in the hadith section, since that is where you find Mahdi anyway.

Pakistani_Assassin

So this is a 'revival' of 'old native European traditions' which was being suppressed for many centuries by the catholic church?
Have you met any of them in real life?
What's the essence of their teachings?

Do they have 'human sacrifice' ritual? or anything which involves wrapping bomb on the waist or other suicidal actions?
If not.. well at least they're relatively better than the Sunni extremist..

Salam / Peace

Lol of course they're better than Sunni extremists or any other extremist, they're just normal people who worship different deities I guess. And no I haven't met any in real life since they are few in number but I want to, to know what their exact beliefs are and why they follow it/do they feel any benefit from their beliefs.

Also

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

I'm not sure what to think of these beliefs/religions?

Indelwyn

I studied Wicca and I have a friend who is Wiccan.

Though polythesist, I find it to be peaceful. They are not allowed to cause pain to another human being . There main motto is "If it harms none, do as you will."

They have the god/goddess theory.

Satanism has actually a code of ethics that will blow your mind! It just makes no sense.
Here are some, I have books on this since I studied religions I can pull them out.

Life is precious , Under no circumstances should a child ever be harmed, You must never abuse anyone, a Satanist does not judge or commit crimes against a person because of their race and A person?s sexual activity is their own business, as long as it does not include forcing another person against their will.

Just a few of their ethics.... Whatever weird stuff.