Jesus is the WORD ? or the WORD is the message ?

Hoppean

"The Word from Him", signifies a promise, assurance or guarantee.

This is simply a gratuitous, unsupported assertion. "A word from Him" signifies "His word" as it says in 4171, kalimatuhu. You have arbitrarily defined and limited the meaning of kalimah. You simply refuse to allow the text to say what it says...perhaps for theological reasons?
Of course it was "guaranteed" to happen, it is God who is speaking.
You should practice exegesis, not eisegesis.

English "Word" is also used for this purpose, as may be seen in dictionaries, "I give you my word".

I assume by this concession that you cannot find a lexical source for translating kalimah as "promise".
Of course your reasoning here is simply anachronistic. We are dealing with a 1400 year old text, and with the language of the Arabs of that time. Why appeal to modern english uses of "word", and read that back into this ancient text?? You might as well reason that because the koine greek word "logos" is translated as "kalimah" in the Arabic Bibles that "kalimah" can mean everything that "logos" meant 2000 years ago!

And this relates to something yet to happen in future, when the word is being given.

That's how you are choosing to understand the nominal phrase "usmuhu al masih", it could easily be understood in the present tense. Especially if the conception took place at the moment the good news was conveyed (I am assuming you believe in a virgin birth).

There is no such thing as "unique title".

Really?? Is "Al Masih" a unique title in the Quran??

A feminine title is not given to males.

It's not?? Is Khalfiah not feminine at 3826?? And who is it ascribed to a man, or a woman??
Why have Arabic speaking Christians been calling Christ "kalimat Allah" for, at least, 14 centuries?? If so called "feminine" titles cannot be applied to males??

The sum of it is this I am not too concerned with how you understand "kalimah", as long as you consistently apply it. That is, as long as you assert that the Quran is also the "promise" of Allah and not His eternal and uncreated kalam. I'm just looking for consistency, not double standards. And even if we allow "kalimah" to mean "promise", what does this change?? Is there anyone else in the Quran called "kalimatuhu" His word??

Mazhar

Quote from Mazhar on Today at 095438 AM
A feminine title is not given to males.

It's not?? Is Khalfiah not feminine at 3826?? And who is it ascribed to a man, or a woman??

Yes, it is NOT feminine. And is the second object of the verb which is doubly transitive.

Mazhar

Quote from Mazhar on Today at 095438 AM
"The Word from Him", signifies a promise, assurance or guarantee. English "Word" is also used for this purpose, as may be seen in dictionaries, "I give you my word". And this relates to something yet to happen in future, when the word is being given.

Correct.. the exact 'translation' of kalimah is 'series of word' or 'sentence'...

The Arabic word is singular, feminine, and is definite, meaning "The Word".

Mazhar

Quote from Mazhar on Today at 095438 AM
"The Word from Him", signifies a promise, assurance or guarantee.

This is simply a gratuitous, unsupported assertion. "A word from Him" signifies "His word" as it says in 4171, kalimatuhu. You have arbitrarily defined and limited the meaning of kalimah. You simply refuse to allow the text to say what it says...perhaps for theological reasons?

The Arabic Text is this

The word is a possessive phrase. The First Noun is definite, singular, feminine; the definite Pronoun refers back to Allah, the Exalted. This does not mean "A word from him". Here it means "The Word of Him". "The Word of Him" specifies that particular Word which was earlier conveyed. has built in Subject Pronoun, Third Person; singular; Masculine referring back to Allah, the Exalted Who conveyed "The Word", which is the object of verb , singular, feminine. And who was the one to/towards whom "The Word" was conveyed .

Student_of_Allah

Salam,

you guys confused me further P

Lets just point it out if I am wrong.

My view = word = piece of information
My 2nd view = word = promise (like giving someone your word)

Is it Word OF God ? or Word from GOD ?

PEACE
---------------------------- Student of Allah

Eikonoklastes

Peace Student of Allah,

The following website explains thoroughly what you are looking for, and then some. I suggest reading all of it very carefully. It's structured to be understood quite easily.

http//www.freewebs.com/nadqur/birth.htm

If you don't want to read all of it (though I insist you do, as it explains it in light of a bigger misunderstanding most Muslims have), just CTRL + F and type "345" and read the portions related.

May Allah guide us all.

Mazhar

I am sorry to point out that Mr. Nadeem Quraishi does not seem to even know the ABC of Arabic language. Stupids expose their stupidity so nakedly and vividly, I had not thought earlier.

Mazhar

Salam,

you guys confused me further P

Lets just point it out if I am wrong.

My view = word = piece of information
My 2nd view = word = promise (like giving someone your word)

Is it Word OF God ? or Word from GOD ?

PEACE
---------------------------- Student of Allah

This is basic fact that a "Word"-- is an expression formulated for a single meaning. It verbally mirrors an object or piece of information. The expression conveyed by the word will determine its nature, whether it is a news, or representation of static image of an object, or is a promise of someone.

Expressions, "with the word from Him" and "The Word of Him" which He conveyed to Syeda Maryam", therein, the conveyed information will tell the nature of the "Word".

Paradox_Uncreated

Jesus was already known to be The Word, or Logos, in christianity. So The Quran also states, that he is this, in it`s own way.

However as I said before, Jesus states that "the words I speak are life, the flesh profits not". And that "he is in everyone" And that "he is in the father and the father in me". And Ruach is the judaic version of Ruh. Ruach is the lifeforce. And Jesus says that The Word is lifeforce, and "in everyone" meaning all consciousness.

The quran also includes the expression "the first and the last". Which goes back to the judaic "alef-tav". Which again goes back to hinduism, and it`s statement "The word created everything", associated with Brahma and Saraswati, which probably are Abraham and Sarai of juadism.

Alef-Tav means The Word, or first and last word, represented by first and last sign (word) of the hebrew alphabet.

And again, we can see that that God is consciousness (The Word) in 329, Ruh (gods spirit/his immaterial nature) gives mind/perception/senses.

This is also the earliest concept of God, we see in animism.

And with The Word, is the meaning.

Peace.

Jafar

My view = word = piece of information

Yup that's correct... Kalimatin Minhu = 'words from Him(God) / 'message from Him(God)' / 'SMS from Him(God)'

SiNoob

616 And when Jesus, son of Mary, said O children of Israel, I am a messenger of God to you, authenticating what is between my hands of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be most acclaimed. But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said This is clearly magic

does anyone know "he" on the verse is refer to isa or to messenger that would come after isa?