Competition: Illustration of Prophet Muhammad
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Salaam Family,
Yeah, Conjecture is the best word I can think of to describe this enterprise. There were no such thing as cameras 1,400+ years ago. And to the best of my knowledge, I don't believe the concept of "Paintings" or "Portraits" were en vogue either.
I understand what you are hoping to accomplish with this project bro and I believe your intentions are good and all.....but I really do think this is a very bad idea. It won't help matters at all. In fact, it will just add more charcoal to the fire.
My opinion at least.
Salaam Fam.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
Salaam all,
Buzzzor Wrote
How do we know Muhammad the man wasn't an ugly, balding, short guy?
lol lol lol
I like your style Buzzzor.....that was pretty funny. lol lol
Salaam,
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
Peace Jaguar
People draw Jesus as being white, tall and blue-eyed. For God's sake, look the people of Middle East; they are not blue-eyed, or white (or tall).
Let me tell you this, Jaguar. The majority of the Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians and a high percentage of Jordanians and Egyptians do look like Scandinavians. Most of the Tunisians and Algerians look like that too, and definitely ALL the Berbers in Morocco are very white with very dark blue eyes.
So for Jesus to look that way, can very well be very true.
He had been described in Ahadeeth, so was Moses. Everybody knows that Moses had a dark skin, for example. Muhammad (P&BBUH) was photographically described in several Ahadeeth all of which told the same story. There is not a single contradiction among those Ahadeeth. It is up to you to believe them or not. Yet in spite of all the clarity in the description, nobody ever dared to draw him, not even the genius artists of Persia and Turkey. I imagine that they all thought that it cannot possibly do fair to the real look. So they respectfully abstained.They will draw Muhammad just like him as tall, white, blue-eyed when Arabs aren't that tall (not saying as a bad thing, but a general statement just like Asians aren't that tall either when compared with say North Americans or Europeans) or white or blue-eyed. They are brown, but people in their sin of glorification make these "perfect" pictures to worship. Just my opinion, I'd say don't to such projects.
You are again repeating the same mistaken judgement. But anyway, why would ?white? be associated with ?perfect?!? No true Muslim would follow that racist equation. Muslims are not skin-deep, looks-oriented.
Taj
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Peace Taj, all,
So for Jesus to look that way, can very well be very true.
He had been described in Ahadeeth, so was Moses. Everybody knows that Moses had a dark skin, for example. Muhammad (P&BBUH) was photographically described in several Ahadeeth all of which told the same story. There is not a single contradiction among those Ahadeeth.Hadiths consistantly describe ancient people such as Adam as being 80 cubits tall giants. Hence, appeal to popularity and saying that "everybody knows" doesn't prove anything. "Everybody knows" some fairy tales, this doesn't make them true.
It doesn't matter what anyone looks like for any serious purpose. On the other hand, Hadiths are like fairy tales. Their purpose is actually ENTERTAINMENT. Describing the looks of the hero is an essential part of any cheap entertaining story. The storytellers were only giving the audience what they wanted to hear.
You are again repeating the same mistaken judgement. But anyway, why would ?white? be associated with ?perfect?!? No true Muslim would follow that racist equation. Muslims are not skin-deep, looks-oriented.
Sectarians do descriminate against "bald men" as evident from Edip's post. D
Peace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman.
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Peace be upon you,
Make sure to draw his genital area very large, as he was "known" to be a man who could satisfy 70 women at a time or something "Wilt Chamberlainish" lol
Zenje wrote
Too late, it's already happening, no picture necessary.You said it! D
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Peace Ayman,
Hadiths consistantly describe ancient people such as Adam as being 80 cubits tall giants. Hence, appeal to popularity and saying that "everybody knows" doesn't prove anything. "Everybody knows" some fairy tales, this doesn't make them true.
Moses being dark-skinned isn't an important detail in the "fairy tale" after all! It doesn't make him any more popular than he already was/is!It doesn't matter what anyone looks like for any serious purpose.
Yes, it shouldn't matter.Their purpose is actually ENTERTAINMENT. Describing the looks of the hero is an essential part of any cheap entertaining story. The storytellers were only giving the audience what they wanted to hear.
Those entertaining Ahadeeth didn't mention that the Prophets and Messengers were exceptionally handsome, except for the ones concerning Yusuf. Those Ahadeeth although all of them agree with each other, I don't find them at all convincing, or even entertaining, based on my own understanding of Surat Yusuf.Sectarians do descriminate against "bald men" as evident from Edip's post.
I have to disagree with that! All the portraits of Imam Ali, almost a must in every Shia corner, pictures him with hair, when everybody knows, they themselves admit, that he was bald oAnyway, thanks for the comments. Very entertaining, honestly
Taj
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Salaam Everybody,
Taj Wrote
Let me tell you this, Jaguar. The majority of the Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians and a high percentage of Jordanians and Egyptians do look like Scandinavians. Most of the Tunisians and Algerians look like that too,
To a certain extant, this may be somewhat true. I don't know if I would say that the majority of Middle Eastern people look like this.
and definitely ALL the Berbers in Morocco are very white with very dark blue eyes.
This Is Not True!! I've been to Morocco on two different occasions and both times I've got intermingle with a lot of Berbers. In fact, my second trip there My family and I were invited to stay with someone who was a Berber. His name was Saeed. His wife, Malika, was 'Arab. ALL of the Berbers that I met the times that I was there were very dark complected. My Moroccan friend's wife is part 'Arab and part Berber and she has a beautiful bronze complexion. My friend Saeed's mother and my friend who is 'Arab/Berber mother are both as dark as chocolate. So, I really don't know where you got this information from.
So for Jesus to look that way, can very well be very true.
He had been described in Ahadeeth, so was MosesThe people who authored these ahadith have NEVER met Jesus, Moses, or Ahmad. We should also keep in mind that there were no cameras or portrait makers during the times of these people. After all of the studying , research, and critiquing I have done on the ahadith, I can never take the info contained there in as factual.
Muhammad (P&BBUH) was photographically described in several Ahadeeth all of which told the same story. There is not a single contradiction among those Ahadeeth
I really do believe that you need to re-evaluate your faith and trust in the ahadith. How can someone be photographically described?? Even the sketchers for the police departments are not able to Sketch someone perfectly based on the descriptions being dictated to them. This is very erroneous.
Yet in spite of all the clarity in the description, nobody ever dared to draw him, not even the genius artists of Persia and Turkey. I imagine that they all thought that it cannot possibly do fair to the real look. So they respectfully abstained.
No, I believe it's because that there were no Genuis Artists to make the portraits. If there were any "Genuis Artists" during the time of Ahmad, then HOW could they NOT do fair to the real look when they had the actual model to draw from??
You are again repeating the same mistaken judgement. But anyway, why would white be associated with perfect!?
It is an established institutionalized Superiority/Inferiority Complex that is deeply embedded in many people all over the world. I really don't believe you have sufficient grounds to deny this fact. The very fact that the concept of Racism exists in the world lets us know that there are ideas floating out there concerning the Superiority or Inferiority of certain Races of people, depending on what race of people is judging another race.
No true Muslim would follow that racist equation. Muslims are not skin-deep, looks-oriented.
I agree with you. No TRUE Muslim would follow such racist equations. Which means we can question the hearts of those Muslims that do.
Moses being dark-skinned isn't an important detail in the "fairy tale" after all! It doesn't make him any more popular than he already was/is!
If Moses' skin complexion wasn't so important (or even Jesus' and Ahmad's for that matter), then why would the authors of these fairytales go out of their way to include such thorough details of his looks and skin complexion??
I have to disagree with that! All the portraits of Imam Ali, almost a must in every Shia corner, pictures him with hair, when everybody knows, they themselves admit, that he was bald
How would ANYBODY KNOW what he looked like if none of these artists were there to meet him?? His so-called portrait WAS NOT made while he was alive!!! All portraits of all Prophets and Messengers are Post Humous productions!! How can ANYONE take any of these things seriously??
Salaam People.
GOD Alone/Quran Alone,
Damon. -
Illustration of Prophet Muhammad will have some surpises
I have thought well on this issue and I know very well what I am doing. The illustration competition will have some surprise consequences and ramifications. I think, that many of those monotheists who criticize me now, then will be happy. The confusion and surprise of the mushrik Sunnies will be multiplied by nineteen)
I will not unveil the surprises embedded in this illustration competition at least for several months. Even if you think that you have discovered the surprise you might be still unaware of the ultimate one. But, here I would like to briefly express the several related arguments that will further expose the contradictory and hypocritical nature of Sunny teachings. For instance the following will be challenged.
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Their traditional reason against depiction of animated objects, or human face fear of idolization of those who are depicted in illustrations.
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Their "authentic" hadith regarding vision of Muhammad in dreams. That anyone who sees Muhammad in his or her dream would be actually seeing him since according to the hadith devil cannot imitate his vision. What if the illustration is based on such a dream?!
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Their hypocrisy or double standard by not reacting to pictures, sculptures, and statues of other prophets, such as Jesus.
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Their hypocrisy in their idolworship. They, put Muhammad's name next to God in Shahadah, while the Quran mentions La ilahe illallah (there is no god, but the God) thirty times without adding Muhammad's name to it, and the only Shahadah containing Muhammad's name is attributed to hypocrites (631). In contradiction to the Quranic injunction (7218 ), they place Muhammad's name and the names of early leaders next to God in places of worship. They promote Muhammad beyond messengership and make him a partner with God in issuing and defining islam (729; 1652; 392-114, 4221, 985) .... According to the Quran there is no difference between associating a NAME to God or worshipping a picture (5323). (During Muhammad's time Meccan mushriks did not worship statues as claimed by fabricated hadith. They believed in intercession of angels and holy people.)
No one will worship the upcoming illustration if they were already not ignorant idolworshipers. Since people worshiping Jesus should not stop us mentioning his name or drawing an imaginary illustration of him, similarly people worshipping Muhammad's NAME should not stop us mentioning his name or drawing his picture. As we learn from the Quran, prophet Solomon had pictures, statues and sculptures in his mansion (3413).
Interestingly, months after my posting about our project of producing an animation film telling the struggle and message of Muhammad, the Turkish media started discussing the issue of illustrating Muhammad. The issue has instantly become controversial. I am invited to participate in TV debates and newspaper interviews... So, it will inshallah provide us with another opportunity to deliver the message of the Quran.
Again, there will be a surprise with the picture.
Peace,
Edip Yuksel
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org -
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Taj,
Sorry if I ofended you. But my point was not to say white people are perfect. That's how the majority of world views them, as being perfect. That's why we have Asians copying the whites in every which way, from drinking coke to wearing abercrombile shirts and wearning tommy perfume.
I live across Indians and they are like coconuts - you know brown outside but trying to be white inside. They way they talk, walk and behave, they try to be like whites. I myself am not white and i certainly don't think whites are better than me )
As for arabs being tall, white and blue-eyed, sure, there might be some who are, but I've lived in Riyadh, saudi arabia and never saw a white blue-eyed arab. I agree with the other person who replied to you saying not all arabs are white. White is no superiority.
The arabs are brown (most of them) because of their geographic location - closer to the equator. The americans are white because of their geographic location. no color is better than other. Can you say green is better than pink? )
the bad part of using a technology like the web to express the idea is that you can't show physical emotion and ppl tend to take it wrong and get mad at others without understanding what they are trying to say.
Sorry currnetly dont have time to read all the replies
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Peace Jaguar,
Sorry if I offended you
You didn't offend me, Jaguar. I wrote my first post to you because I thought that you were incorrect about your generalization.
That is what you wrote previously
Exactly. People draw Jesus as being white, tall and blue-eyed. For God's sake, look the people of middle east, they are not blue-eyed, or white (or tall).As for Arabs being tall, white and blue-eyed, sure, there might be some who are, but I've lived in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and never saw a white blue-eyed Arab. I agree with the other person who replied to you saying not all Arabs are white. White is no superiority
But when and where in my post did I ever say/write that All Arabs are white!!!???
And when did I even mention that white is a superiority!!!??? I never said that. How could I!? It is nonsense!
In my post, I only specified certain countries in the Middle East where a high percentage of the people do have the Scandinavian look. I never said that ALL the Arabs look like that, certainly not! I wonder from where you brought that.
I did mention that ALL Berbers are white, something that Damon here disagrees with. Maybe I should have written THE MAJORITY OF BERBERS ARE WHITE!.OUR ANCIENT COUSINS THE BERBERS by J. M. McGill, F.S.A. Scot.
Apart from the fact that the Berber-Shluh language is a Gaelic dialect, the Berbers are a highly interesting people. The majority of them are a tall, white-skinned, fair haired race with blue or grey eyes, and Professor Hooten of Harvard the famous American Anthropologist did not hesitate to say that there were more "pure Nordics" in Barbary than in Germany.
http//www.scotsgenealogy.com/online/berbers.htmThat's why we have Asians copying the whites in every which way, from drinking coke to wearing abercrombile shirts and wearning tommy perfume.
Is drinking coke considered as copying whites!!!??? And I really don't know what abercrombile shirts and tommy perfume are. What are these things if I may ask?
the bad part of using a technology like the web to express the idea is that you can't show physical emotion and ppl tend to take it wrong and get mad at others without understanding what they are trying to say.
I wasn't mad at you.
Taj
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Hello Taj
Good to know u aren't mad at me
Misunderstandings, misuderstandings and more misunderstandings, huh Taj...... no i did not write all arabs are white either. I said
As for Arabs being tall, white and blue-eyed, sure, there might be some who are,
and noohhh u did not say white is superir, u said its non-islamic to think that white is superior. i am not a muslim either and i still believe its inhumane to think one group is smarter/better than the other - kapesh
Is drinking coke considered as copying whites!!!??? And I really don't know what abercrombile shirts and tommy perfume are. What are these things if I may ask?
no, coke isn't a "white" thing, but there was some show on like t.v. where a guy said......consider asians drinking coke (which is an american company btw) to wearing gap jeans (american company again), the asians want everything we have and we want them to buy it too.....or something something
for your question, abercrombile is a stupid, gay, pro-white store that sells clothes that are designed for the body phsique of whites and they even once said that their merchandize is geared towards causians.....tommy is all american company, they sell their perfumes and all their ads contain like a us flag, but tommy is cool because they aren't racists as abercrombile is.....
www.tommy.com
www.abercrombile.com- though i would'nt suggest u place an order because these companies are money hoarders............they sell it for too much $$$ shock
i hope this helps and lets keep this nonsense topic from getting more heat and focus on something productive
g'day
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Berbers...like Arabs...come in all shades and hues
http//www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/galleries/algeria/images/primary/NGM1973_08p222.jpg
A Berber woman from Algeria
Taj
Persians and the Ottomans did draw pictures of Muhammad, as well as his sahaba as well as even angels?and guess what?...they all resembled Turks and Persians!!!
http//www.al-qiyamah.org/images/prophet_muhammad_1_XL.jpeg
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Peace Omari,
Berbers...like Arabs...come in all shades and hues
You are right. We can also say the same thing about many other groups now!Persians and the Ottomans did draw pictures of Muhammad, as well as his sahaba as well as even angels?and guess what?...they all resembled Turks and Persians!!!
How did that escape my mind!? And there are many other illustrations as well telling the whole story of Muhammad (P&BBUH) with Quraish, the Calling for Islam, the Struggle, the Kaabah, his grandfather Abdul Mutdalib and so on. Thank you for reminding me. But I guess I couldn't recall it because it wasn't really a portrait, in the renaissance sense of portrait!
Thanks, Omari )
Taj
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Hello Jaguar,
You meant by tommy, Tommy Hilfiger! Ah, ok, I know that designer. We have few branches here! But the other one, I don't think I am familiar with. Designers are multiplying like bacteria these days! Think of the good old days when we only had Christian Dior, Yves Saint Laurent, Valentino, and few others! (Since this thread is Art & Design-related! roll)
kapesh ) ) )
Isn?t that what Tommy, from "Third rock from the Sun", always stresses )i hope this helps and lets keep this nonsense topic from getting more heat and focus on something productive )
Deal! DGood Day )
Taj
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Salaam
Why don't you just do it from a 1st person perspective where you see not the messenger but you look through his eyes? The messenger can look like any man, so why don't you draw yourself as the messenger or someone willing to take up the part?
Joe
Can one start a competition and participate in it too!?
Taj