Wanted to share this article by a Muslim about the Quranist movement
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I think he was here debating some people here. Anyways I find his analysis very interesting. Wanted to share this and see ur thoughts on what he said
What do you get when you take out all faith from Islam and replace it with a cold rational materialism? You get a new brand of "Muslim" who calls himself a "Quran Aloner".... Granted not all of them are the same, and many are not as extreme as others, but one thing is certain these are the people who will totally change the Islamic landscape within a century. This much is clear to me.
This might sound like dialectics (its not) but a counterpart to the rightist Taliban has arisen in the extreme secular left. These are the people who will take over the Muslim world (FOX News was wrong, it won't be Osama bin Laden). These "Quran Aloners" are a very small and fragmented minority today, mostly in the middle to upper classes. But they contain all the characteristics that a future mainstream movement needs to have and become the dominant Muslim denomination of the future. And all the work that the radical conservative Muslims are doing is directly contributing to their rise.
Their principles are diverse, but they have a few common beliefs. Almost all of them reject the "5 prayers" scheme. Some only accept 3, some reject the prayer totally, saying it was never meant to be an actual ritual. They also reject the significance of Mecca, and refuse to face it. Some of them believe that everything that takes place in Mecca is pagan idolatry.
These beliefs may sound very far fetched and crazy to the mainstream Muslims today, but it is very clear to me that that these beliefs will become the mainstream views within the Muslim ummah. It happened with Rome, with Christianity, it happened again with the Reformation. And the same will happen in the Muslim world... It is the same pattern with every new religion. If it attracts the middle-to-upper classes at first, you can bet it will keep expanding until it is the dominant force. There are no statistics, but I bet they are adding at least 40% new members per decade, just as the LDS Church. Such a growth, while it seems small at first, is exponential.
I don't really have much in common with mainstream Muslim sects either.. most of the time I am disagreeing with their beliefs... but this group of "Quran Aloners".... this is something completely different. Some of these people can hardly be considered Muslims at all, as some of them don't even believe in the finality of revelation, and feel that the Quran is "incomplete"... In my book, these people are much more dangerous then the Taliban, because their beliefs are much more attractive for the majority. Theirs will be a silent revolution, without weapons, without beheadings... And all the conservative Wahabi Taliban types are only making it easier for them, because it is -Islam- which is being put on the chopping block because of their actions.
... This is inevitable. There is no way to stop this... Many Muslims will convert to their side in the coming decades. Anyone in fact who values a self-negating "rationality" above faith will join their ranks. Maybe another war, or two, is all that is needed for a major shift in ideology to take place.. and when the time comes, these people will be waiting to step up and offer their "solution" a complete reformation of Islam, stripped of all faith... Setting the stage for a slow evaporation and drift towards a total materialistic atheism in the Muslim world....
I say this is inevitable, because this time, unlike the time of the Mutazillites, there are no core battallions left in the Muslim world to hold back this tide of skepticism... Too much faith has eroded over the centuries... There are not going to be any more al-Thalabis or al-Ghazalis, this time... they will win.
http//www.interfaith.org/forum/this-is-how-islam-will-11195.html
He did not dwell on why the Taliban do what they do. But his talk of atheism I find interesting. Not sure what does this (atheism) has to do with us.
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There are lot of mistakes in his view..
I'm not promoting "Materialism", I'm promoting "TOLERANCE" and "CRITICAL THINKING".
And the conception of 'conversion' by itself is absurd...But he's right on "all sectarians / religions shall meet their end soon".
Which include Sunniism, Shiitism, Judaism, Catholicism, Orthodoxism, etc...And... this dude is panicking and calling for 'batallions' ???
And he's right again on
"Theirs will be a silent revolution, without weapons, without beheadings.."
And I might add without yelling "Kuffar", "Murtad", "Apostate" and "Infidel" too"There is no compulsion in judgement (dien) as truth stands out clear from error"..
(2256)Salam / Peace
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Salam,
Not a bad article. But the author seems to be in a war with rational thinking. The only point this author made is "look, Qur'an aloners are people that think rationally and reject our traditions". Just as if rationality is anti-God and their traditions are to be followed just because they are followed by many. The world is turning into secular world day by day. Promoting my views is getting easier, so its not surprising that you may find the number of Qur'an aloner increasing.
INTERNET is reshaping the way we see the world. You can no longer brain wash a person with your indoctrination, the person can research for him/herself without getting beheaded for that and being called a "KUFFAR".
PEACE be on you
------------------------------------- Student of Allah -
A good insight about freeminders who wants to people to fee themselves rather then to submit religions shall meet their end soon".
Which include Sunniism, Shiitism, Judaism, Catholicism, Orthodoxism, etc so what if this revolutionary movement is going to take over? Not much difference; so called Muslims would go from one extreme to another. First the mainstream worshipped prophet Mohumad and now to the other extreme, of denying that the prophet even existed! 'Forget about Ummah; be divided and be free of all obligation as, according to them, all is allowed from alcohol to homosexualty thus creating a buffet religion where you pick and choose as you wish.
So free minders when you become a majority you will have become a sect just like the sunni as the majority will only lead astry.
As for those who truly follow the Qur'an well they have always been a small but devoted section and that would remain so even Satan admited that he won't be able to entice true believers.
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I think he has a very good point when he connects QA with aethism. This is the beauty of Allah, he has sent down a book describing the system of Islam. Whoever said you have to believe in God before you believe in the system of Islam?
Try it, give the Quran to your neighbourhood atheist, ask him to read it and then ask him what moral values described he does not agree with......dont be surprised if the answer is...none
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The quran is against any kind of belief or blind faith , it doesn't work with the tenets of the quran, that is why Faith and Belief are called DHANN in the quran
but , there is Trust in Allah, meaning, Trust in the Quran, and applying the Quran as a guide in all aspects of Life
With faith, people went so far to a point where sile became worshiping satan, or prophets, or anything, the most important with faith, comes worship. and the reason of worship is replacing reality of Life and serving others, to rituals to controlmythology, theology, religion are different words that mean the same thing, Faith in something, religion is worse, for the Quran and it's tenets are Legislation from Allah, and Religion is an abreviation of Relegislation, therefore , any religion , no matter what it is, it's just Shirk, subsituting Allah and his legislation to something else, while keeping the Faith in Allah alone, but serving and living according to 2 different ALLAHS , Allah in the Quran, and Allah in other books, while it is clear that in order for humanity to be united, they have to Have one single Guide.
Atheists, and atheism is a false also, for it became a religion of non believing, and no faith, while feeling self suffcient, and living a secular life, therefore , no point of morality, and purpose, except self pleasureA true Muslim to me , is someone Who Trust in the LAW that is in the quran, and don't have any faith in anything else, Live a good life and enjoy it maximum in the limits provided in the quran.
The most important in the quran, is LEARNING , it is mentioned 100's times in the Quran, and that people who learn aren't equal to people unlearned, so enjoy learning, Swalow and absorb every book , and devour all that you fond from science to mythology to religions to fiction etc... everything, therefore , one can analyse by himself, become a scholar without even having a diploma.
there is no freedom , because the are limits/borders/hudud in the Quran, and we know them, therefore, staying in that Limits, meaning, we become a true servants of Allah, and that is success, forget about rituals, and all things that doesn't make sense, They're called Rijss in the quran, irregularities in the mind.
religions, myths, thologies are called AWTHAN in the quran, and we are ordered to avoid themIt is a promise from allah in the book, that at the end, SERENITY will gain, will take over, Islam, Salihine etc.. in the land, we don't know when, but it is a promise , written in the Zabour After Dhikr
Peace
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A true Muslim to me , is someone Who Trust in the LAW that is in the quran, and don't have any faith in anything else, Live a good life and enjoy it maximum in the limits provided in the quran.
In that case; Jesus, Moses and Abraham is not a true muslim according to you.
Since the quran does not exist during their lifetime.Salam / Peace
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In that case; Jesus, Moses and Abraham is not a true muslim according to you.
Since the quran does not exist during their lifetime.Salam / Peace
How can you say the Quran didn't Exust in their time???
Isn't the Torah a Quran ? isn't the injeel a Quran ? isn't the book of Ibrahim a quran ?all books are Quran , some had specific names according to what happened to the quran
it was named the torah, because Tawrat , is TAWARAT , meaning, disapeared or gone or veiled, same as injeel, Injala, it is a synonym of Torah, and only Allah knows how the Quran is called now, because, the Quran, isn't the name of the Book, what we're reading is the torah and injeel together, didn't you read that Allah descended the Quran in stages ??? what does that mean??? every messenger received a part of the book, Quran, and it was acculmulating, every messenger puts more sourahs, and it was done in the time of ISA , this book that we're reading now, is ROUH ek QUDUSS , the Quran is just one of his names
ROUH al Quduss , means the ACADEMIC MESSAGE, or CODEX SCRIPT
Rouh = Message and messenger , it's like, when you say in arabic to someone, ROUH to your mama , means you're sending him to his mama right?
Quduss = Codex, or modern name, Academic , it was completed in the time of ISA -
Salam,
Not a bad article. But the author seems to be in a war with rational thinking. The only point this author made is "look, Qur'an aloners are people that think rationally and reject our traditions". Just as if rationality is anti-God and their traditions are to be followed just because they are followed by many. The world is turning into secular world day by day. Promoting my views is getting easier, so its not surprising that you may find the number of Qur'an aloner increasing.
INTERNET is reshaping the way we see the world. You can no longer brain wash a person with your indoctrination, the person can research for him/herself without getting beheaded for that and being called a "KUFFAR".
PEACE be on you
------------------------------------- Student of AllahGood point. I noticed that about him. He did not expound on why the Wahhabi/Taliban exist and why thet are not able to be stopped. But I think he is scared (as most Muslims will be) about the Koranist wing that rejects salat as something physical or see fasting as something spiritual and reject the whole haj ritual and see zakat as something non monetary but something spiritual etc. He thinks these guys are not Muslims and so he does not know what to call them and thinks they are atheist.
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Good point. I noticed that about him. He did not expound on why the Wahhabi/Taliban exist and why thet are not able to be stopped. But I think he is scared (as most Muslims will be) about the Koranist wing that rejects salat as something physical or see fasting as something spiritual and reject the whole haj ritual and see zakat as something non monetary but something spiritual etc. He thinks these guys are not Muslims and so he does not know what to call them and thinks they are atheist.
I think usually they call those 'quran aloner bastards' as "Zionists who are trying to destroy Islam" and not 'atheist'..
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I think usually they call those 'quran aloner bastards' as "Zionists who are trying to destroy Islam" and not 'atheist'..
I wrote a long anwer for you, but than, I'm not supposed to answer of speak to someone who made up his mind, so , keep up fighting the word of Allah, but I advise u to Count on Allah and Allah only, so u might see clear without feelings , but with reason
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all books are Quran , some had specific names according to what happened to the quran
it was named the torah, because Tawrat , is TAWARAT , meaning, disapeared or gone or veiled, same as injeel, Injala, it is a synonym of Torah,Let's correct your 'etymology' hypothesis first..
TAWRAT is arabised form of Hebrew (Tav - Resh - He) Torah.. root word meanings in Hebrew.. instruction, statute / law and not 'disappeared', 'gone' or 'veiled'.
ENJEEL is again arabised form of Greek EUANGELION meanings in Greek. good news / glad tidings.
ENJEEL definitely not a synonym of TAWRAT..
While Quran is "Reading" or "Recitation" from the verb "Qara'a" and it has a very similar word in Aramaic "Qaryana" which has the same meaning.. "Reading" or "Reciting".
If what you're meaning to say is "All books are recitation" well then that's correct.
Yet I don't believe that one need to be able to 'read' (literate) in order to be a muslim..
To me that specific hypothesis of yours is a mistake.and only Allah knows how the Quran is called now, because, the Quran, isn't the name of the Book, what we're reading is the torah and injeel together, didn't you read that Allah descended the Quran in stages ??? what does that mean??? every messenger received a part of the book, Quran, and it was acculmulating, every messenger puts more sourahs, and it was done in the time of ISA , this book that we're reading now, is ROUH ek QUDUSS , the Quran is just one of his names
ROUH al Quduss , means the ACADEMIC MESSAGE, or CODEX SCRIPT
Rouh = Message and messenger , it's like, when you say in arabic to someone, ROUH to your mama , means you're sending him to his mama right?
Quduss = Codex, or modern name, Academic , it was completed in the time of ISAYou're confusing me with your 'spinning' statement..
Nevertheless I just want to (again) correct your hypothesis om the meanings of the words Ruh and Qudus.Qudus is not Codex.. Ruhul Qudus has a synonym in Hebrew Roach Ha Kodesh. Ruach / Ruh is "Wind", "Spirit" or "Emotion" while Qudus / Kodesh is "holy", "pure", "separated" (from the tainted).
Again I don't believe that one need the ability to 'read' (literate) in order to be a muslim..
And your definition that
true muslim = "Who Trust in the LAW that is in the quran, and don't have any faith in anything else"
or since you said earlier that quran = recitation / readings and all books are readings (quran).
true muslim = "Who Trust in the LAW that is in 'all of the books,' and don't have any faith in anything else"
is a mistake.Salam / Peace
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He is not thinking clearly, and ofcourse, a people who didn``t find the prayers in the Quran for a thousand years, and still can`t find them, must have garbage for a brain. Thus this article.
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Let's correct your 'etymology' hypothesis first..
TAWRAT is arabised form of Hebrew (Tav - Resh - He) Torah.. root word meanings in Hebrew.. instruction, statute / law and not 'disappeared', 'gone' or 'veiled'.
ENJEEL is again arabised form of Greek EUANGELION meanings in Greek. good news / glad tidings.
ENJEEL definitely not a synonym of TAWRAT..
While Quran is "Reading" or "Recitation" from the verb "Qara'a" and it has a very similar word in Aramaic "Qaryana" which has the same meaning.. "Reading" or "Reciting".
If what you're meaning to say is "All books are recitation" well then that's correct.
Yet I don't believe that one need to be able to 'read' (literate) in order to be a muslim..
To me that specific hypothesis of yours is a mistake.You're confusing me with your 'spinning' statement..
Nevertheless I just want to (again) correct your hypothesis om the meanings of the words Ruh and Qudus.Qudus is not Codex.. Ruhul Qudus has a synonym in Hebrew Roach Ha Kodesh. Ruach / Ruh is "Wind", "Spirit" or "Emotion" while Qudus / Kodesh is "holy", "pure", "separated" (from the tainted).
Again I don't believe that one need the ability to 'read' (literate) in order to be a muslim..
And your definition that
true muslim = "Who Trust in the LAW that is in the quran, and don't have any faith in anything else"
or since you said earlier that quran = recitation / readings and all books are readings (quran).
true muslim = "Who Trust in the LAW that is in 'all of the books,' and don't have any faith in anything else"
is a mistake.Salam / Peace
It's ok brother for you responses to me , I understand exactly what it was about
U never heard or thaught one second of what I was saying, and your answer, was just to coounter my post, no matter what it was, right or wrong, true or falseLet me say why I said tawrat means something , veiled,/hidden etc...
U used hebrew, wich u believe is an older language than the quran, while I AM 100% SURE that hebrew language, is as recent as english
but, we do as the quran said we must do
use the quran only to understand the meaning of the word TAWRAT , and I hope u will trust the version of the quran , than the hebrew
I give u one verse only, that tells u TAWRAT means Hidden or veiledLook at how the SUN is called when it was veiled after sunset
And he said i wloved the goods over the decree of my nurturer, until it was hidden by the veil Sourah SAD, verse 32
He was talking about the sun, Tawarat ( hidden/gone/dissapeared) Bi al hijab ,( by the veil )
I believe one is enaugh, because it is the word of Allah, and not some hebrew illuminati 17th century fabrication language
unless , u don't nelive in this verse, that Tawrat, verb is TAWARAT, than i can post for u different verses, about tawrat and it's meaning
about ROUH
brother, I hope anyone, who can speak arabic , street languahe or accademic, and tell HIM this
Rouh to your mama , ask them what the word rouh means ??? he'll tell u GO , meaning you're sent, as simple as that
Rouh means GO
let me explain a simpler way
From point A , I tell you Rouh to point B
When you go to point B , you will tell thel, I am Rouh of A
Rouh = Messenger = Message = Quran = Missionaries of Allah ( as jesus or moses)
when Allah send them for the misson, it's like he told them ROUH , and they come
Quduss is CODEX , it is a code writing
ADADEMY = ACAD EMY , it is emission of writingI am not trying to prouve anything, i am trying to share, and be corrected if wrong, but with truth and not new hebrew language
If u know where is Constantine, than you can start going backward from there to have a glimpse about history and the whole point of delluding humanity
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Salam,
Not a bad article. But the author seems to be in a war with rational thinking. The only point this author made is "look, Qur'an aloners are people that think rationally and reject our traditions". Just as if rationality is anti-God and their traditions are to be followed just because they are followed by many. The world is turning into secular world day by day. Promoting my views is getting easier, so its not surprising that you may find the number of Qur'an aloner increasing.
INTERNET is reshaping tkhe way we see the world. You can no longer brain wash a person with your indoctrination, the person can research for him/herself without getting beheaded for that and being called a "KUFFAR".
PEACE be on you
------------------------------------- Student of AllahYou are so arrogant that you have made it a habit of calling everyone who does not agree with you for 'being in war with rational thinking'. First of all he is not in war with rational thinking, he is actually pretty right since atheist, agnostic and other people who choosed their own faith base it on rationalism which is neither positive or negative in any way.
So would you please learn how to reason before you talk and learn respect. By the way i am a quran only muslim but i disagree with you in almost all matters, so perhaps some are more kafir than others.
Peace