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Taxes

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Economics Forum
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  • P Offline
    P Offline
    Producer
    wrote on last edited by
    #29

    "All Sex is Rape"?
    "All Government is Totalitarian"?
    what do you think?

    Salaam,

    are you a child?

    Do you need a parent to impose upon you as a superior?

    I do not say that.

    If so you are free to allow a sovereign government to dictate upon you, but you are not a Muslim if you do so, as Allah is the only sovereign.

    I do not allow a Man-made sovereign government to dictate upon me.
    Allah is the only sovereign government to dictate upon me.

    Are you trying to remove your responsibilities and seek another to take them, in the form of a representative, then being viewed in law as mentally incompetent?

    I do not.

    If so you are a slave, you bind yourself to the service of a master for the benefits they grant you.

    I am not slave to other Human. I grow my own food, my life depends on Allah.

    The misery of the world is in the ignorance and apathy from people who could do something to remove the parasites, but remain silent or worse give support to the slave masters, in this modern prison planet of free range slave farms.

    Share with us, your experience on removing the Parasites. It'll may be great help to all.

    The answer is within the four models of Islam, the most powerful change will arrive when people once more see Islam as a way to exist in the world and shed the religion designed to hold them in poverty and ignorance.

    Kindly, show me/produce a thread that explains the "four models of Islam", and I will judge by what Allah has revealed.

    Read the contract of community which explains the natural law of the land, of every land on earth, if you want to see how lawful society is structured without government,

    Semantics Argument. Governing your self is a Government.

    Government can be mean "Total Government", "Limited Government" or a Human Being Govern by no other human but by their self("Self-Government&quot.

    Evidence of "Self-Government";

    • Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves (Quran 1311)

    do not be so quick to give blind support to the only system you have been exposed to.

    "only system", now that plain "lying accusation". I have 8 editions of Black's Law Dictionary. I know Common Law/Natural Law. I know Republic System, I know Monarchy system, I know "True Communism" system, I even know Jacque Fresco system.
    "only systems" is more correct.

    "Government" can be "Limited Government",eg. limited to the prescribe duty assign to them and made not "sovereign government".

    To you too. "Freeman on the Land", its good when the other Government, ie Canada-British corporations abide to Common Law/Natural Law.

    Have a Stinger Missile if you're living in Yemen, bombarded by Predator Drones as Common Law do nothing to Criminals and Outlaws.

    "Freeman on the Land" Jokes
    Producer I DO NOT GIVE CONSENT to be bomb by Predator Drones.
    Criminals Sorry we are Criminals, what do you expect?
    Producer Eat my FIM-92 Stinger Missile!
    Criminals Haha, we have thousands more
    Producer ...I need more Stinger Missile !!!

    What do you think? "All Government is Totalitarian"?

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    • A Offline
      A Offline
      Abdun_Nur
      wrote on last edited by
      #30

      Salaam Producer,

      you write 'without' understanding the subject, yet you live in a world under the control of dominating systems and do not grasp how they function, the media whore of the accumulated wealth elite misdirect and confuse the truth endlessly.

      I can explain a single system for you to make it clear, I have written an affidavit of allodium claim as a method to take back our inalienable right to exist without being the slaves of the elite, if you read that short affidavit example you will understand ownership, if you want to understand the allodial right of use system I'll also give you that link

      http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/

      Allodial right of use

      http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/68/98/

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      • I Offline
        I Offline
        IMHO
        wrote on last edited by
        #31

        Salaam Producer,

        you write 'without' understanding the subject, yet you live in a world under the control of dominating systems and do not grasp how they function, the media whore of the accumulated wealth elite misdirect and confuse the truth endlessly.

        I can explain a single system for you to make it clear, I have written an affidavit of allodium claim as a method to take back our inalienable right to exist without being the slaves of the elite, if you read that short affidavit example you will understand ownership, if you want to understand the allodial right of use system I'll also give you that link

        http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/

        Allodial right of use

        http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/68/98/

        Salaam Abdun Nur
        I have been reading your posts and have been on your site too, it makes lot of sense what you are suggesting but the questions are
        Will these vulture who are so used to supressing and eating off of ordirnay people, let you or me implement this system?
        Did you read Gaddafi's green book and his idea of how to include everyone in the running of the country and how he managed to show the hypocricy of Western "democracy"? It made a lot of sense yet see how they called him "Mad dog" for that and eventually murdered him to stamp out his ideas and practice.
        So, if your idea take off, do you really think that they will leave you alone or even allow you to post on web sites?
        peace

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        • A Offline
          A Offline
          Abdun_Nur
          wrote on last edited by
          #32

          Salaam IMHO,

          the parasites function under presumptions of law and fact, these presumptions are lies, if you state the truth of law and fact in an affidavit, which is a sworn statement in front of witnesses, you have it signed by those witnesses and you get in notarised by a notary public, you send it, recorded delivery, to the head of the legal systems, the head of the government, the head of the state, and allow them 40 days to rebut your affidavit, if they do not reply, which they will not as you have stated the truth, and they can only rebut a lie, for which they must provide proofs, you have an unrebutted affidavit.

          An unrebutted affidavit is the most powerful document in a court of law, you can admit the affidavit of evidence in any claim against you for the rest of your life, this means you have removed as presumption of law and fact, in effect you have made the court lawful, not legal.

          They did indeed murder Gaddafi in the vilest way, they defiled his body and buried him in the desert in an unmarked grave, the height of disrespect. The problem with Gaddafi was he held state as important, I do not, I see the law as the key, not the government, I see legislation the problem, legislation is making what is unlawful, lawful. Do anyone think that is a good idea?

          Gaddafi prevented the men in Libya arming themselves, which he should not have done, he should have provided training within a polycentric community system, removing the fiction of government, he should have removed ownership and established the lawful allodial right of use system, he should have removed the idea of money as of value and made people recognise that physical human labour is the only generator of wealth, removing the fiction of fiat money. He should have made the truth the most treasure possession any man in Libya possessed.

          As for me, I'm not of any importance, the truth does not need me to be the truth.

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          • I Offline
            I Offline
            IMHO
            wrote on last edited by
            #33

            They did indeed murder Gaddafi in the vilest way, they defiled his body and . The problem with Gaddafi was he held state as important, I do not, I see the law as the key, not the government, I see legislation the problem, legislation is making what is unlawful, lawful. Do anyone think that is a good idea?

            Gaddafi prevented the men in Libya arming themselves, which he should not have done, he should have provided training within a polycentric community system, removing the fiction of government, he should have removed ownership and established the lawful allodial right of use system, As for me, I'm not of any importance, the truth does not need me to be the truth.

            Salaam Abdun Nur
            I have not know Gaddafi personally but he has been leading Libya for 42 years and ,using common sense and applying just reasoning convinced me that Gaddafi was not the monstar they projected him to be. In fact I was really impressed with how peaceful he looked in death, despite all insults and degradation he was exposed to. I do no think that burying him in the desert in an unmarked grave, was the height of disrespect, as I am sure any true muslim would like to return to Allah with no more interst in what mark where his earthly body is left to decompose.
            Any way I wanted to point out a few passages from his green book which are similar to what you propose and, as you said, of course he made mistakes so we can learn from that, but on the whole its quite similar to what you propose.
            See page 9 The abrogation of natural laws from human societies and their replacement by
            conventional laws is the fundamental danger that threatens freedom. Any ruling system
            must be made subservient to natural laws, not the reverse.
            Page 8; True democracy has but one method and one theory. The dissimilarity and diversity of the
            systems claiming to be democratic do, in fact, provide evidence that they are not so.
            Authority of the people has but one face which can only be realized through Popular
            Conferences and People's Committees. There can be no democracy without Popular
            Conferences and Committees everywhere.
            First, the people are divided into Basic Popular Conferences. Each Basic Popular
            Conference chooses its secretariat. The secretariats of all Popular Conferences together
            form Non-Basic Popular Conferences. Subsequently, the masses of the Basic Popular
            Conferences select administrative People's Committees to replace government
            administration. All public institutions are run by People's Committees which will be
            accountable to the Basic Popular Conferences which dictate the policy and supervise its
            execution. Thus, both the administration and the supervision become the people's and the
            outdated definition of democracy - democracy is the supervision of the government by the
            people - becomes obsolete. It will be replaced by the true definition Democracy is the
            supervision of the people by the people.
            All citizens who are members of these Popular.....
            You can read detail here http//911-truth.net/other-books/Muammar-Qaddafi-Green-Book-Eng.pdf

            he should have removed the idea of money as of value and made people recognise that physical human labour is the only generator of wealth, removing the fiction of fiat money. He should have made the truth the most treasure possession any man in Libya possessed.

            What angered US most as he wanted to replace dollar with silver and develop new system... hmm
            BTW I fully appreciate you stand that An unrebutted affidavit is the most powerful document in a court of law
            But which court of law and where?
            peace

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            • A Offline
              A Offline
              Abdun_Nur
              wrote on last edited by
              #34

              Salaam IMHO,

              the disrespect was not for Gaddafi, but the members of his family, who may wish to know where he is laid to rest, the dead do not care, the living always do if they love the one whose gone.

              An unrebutted affidavit is powerful in every court of law, of course you have to know what a court of law is, the first requirement of a lawful court is a complete and accurate record of all proceedings, not many courts even manage that.

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              • P Offline
                P Offline
                Producer
                wrote on last edited by
                #35

                Salaam Producer,

                you write 'without' understanding the subject, yet you live in a world under the control of dominating systems and do not grasp how they function, the media whore of the accumulated wealth elite misdirect and confuse the truth endlessly.

                I can explain a single system for you to make it clear, I have written an affidavit of allodium claim as a method to take back our inalienable right to exist without being the slaves of the elite, if you read that short affidavit example you will understand ownership, if you want to understand the allodial right of use system I'll also give you that link

                http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/

                Allodial right of use

                http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/68/98/

                Ad Hominem, if you're clever enough to know what it is.

                you have nothing to criticize the idea, and accusing me with media whore.

                What do you do about the Criminal NATO, who don't care your rights?

                Will the British-American Imperialist abide by the Common Law?

                "I do not Consent", tell that to the Libyans, when they are facing NATO bombardment.

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                • P Offline
                  P Offline
                  Producer
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #36

                  double post

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                  • A Offline
                    A Offline
                    Abdun_Nur
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #37

                    Salaam Producer,

                    you did not read the links from you response.

                    How do you protect from NATO, you establish the Islamic systems, the elite work hard to prevent this and have succeeded in their goals, these alternative systems drain the advantage from the attacker, if you have a system that has no centralised government, like Afganistan, it is almost impossible for the elite to dominate it. If you have a system that has no concept of ownership, and a business system that has no employees, they cannot enslave you to their corporations, the answer cannot be found in marches, riots, voting, or representatives, it is found in law, the natural law is designed to protect, it cannot impose, as legislation does, legislation makes what is unlawful, lawful, if you read the contract of community on my website the natural law and the systems it demands are explained.

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                    • P Offline
                      P Offline
                      Producer
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #38

                      Salaam Abdun Nur,

                      Salaam Producer,

                      you did not read the links from you response.

                      How do you protect from NATO, you establish the Islamic systems, the elite work hard to prevent this and have succeeded in their goals, these alternative systems drain the advantage from the attacker, if you have a system that has no centralised government, like Afganistan, it is almost impossible for the elite to dominate it. If you have a system that has no concept of ownership, and a business system that has no employees, they cannot enslave you to their corporations, the answer cannot be found in marches, riots, voting, or representatives, it is found in law, the natural law is designed to protect, it cannot impose, as legislation does, legislation makes what is unlawful, lawful, if you read the contract of community on my website the natural law and the systems it demands are explained.

                      Please stop accusing me.

                      6147 If they accuse thee of falsehood, say "Your Lord is full of mercy all-embracing; but from people in guilt never will His wrath be turned back.

                      I've read it. I have 8 edition of Blacks Law dictionary, I know the common law. I know the Natural law

                      How do you protect from NATO, you establish the Islamic systems, the elite work hard to prevent this and have succeeded in their goals, these alternative systems drain the advantage from the attacker,

                      examples, evidences that the "Islamic systems" works.

                      if you have a system that has no centralised government, like Afganistan, it is almost impossible for the elite to dominate it.

                      Aghanistan, live like them. Well that's my fallback position, hide in my bunker.

                      I don't want to live in bunker for the rest of my life when I have the knowledge, to stop the the Imperialist Elites from dominating us in the first place and live as free as possible.

                      If you have a system that has no concept of ownership, and a business system that has no employees, they cannot enslave you to their corporations, the answer cannot be found in marches, riots, voting, or representatives, it is found in law, the natural law is designed to protect, it cannot impose, as legislation does, legislation makes what is unlawful, lawful, if you read the contract of community on my website the natural law and the systems it demands are explained.

                      The Criminals have Robots making Robots factory since 1989 ;
                      http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SREct28lJM

                      what laws can stop a criminals with thousand of predator drones shooting at you?

                      plus, Talon Robots
                      http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=yliThCy3RxY

                      plus, Gladiator Robots
                      http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9FOOs-8syU

                      Do you think the Evil people will find better ways to oppress People?

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                      • A Offline
                        A Offline
                        Abdun_Nur
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #39

                        Salaam Producer,

                        quiet clearly you do not understand the law, and you seem to be intentionally dim, I did not say live just as the Afgans, I said the thing that has protected them from the repeated attempts to dominate them has been the polycentric community structure they have in place, a result of the tribal grouping structure, it is the example of this grouping structure I am refering to.

                        I doubt seriously you have read the links I posted, you may have glaced at the first paragraph, if you did read them you absorbed nothing, I notice this trait with many, they refuse to understand and continue to spout the same complaints, it has taken me several years to fully grasp the natural law, and you say you are fully versed, simply from reading the black's law dictionary, please explain the structure of a court, the purpose and power of an unrebutted affidavit, do animals have rights in natural law, but I guess, I don't accuse, you will not answer, you will restate the same post you have written previously in this thread, and accuse me of being insulting.

                        The situation of Jinn (clinical psychopaths) dominating the family of Adam has not arrived over night, we have lived in fear, fear is the way the Jinn take control, small fears at first, and slowly they steal more and more control, until you arrive at the point of drone bombs and battleships, drugged soliders murdering without conscience, a media whore that supports murder, poverty, ignorance and lies. So to stop that will not happen over night, and the first step is to remove the fear, take responsibility for your own actions, become fully liable and accountable for yourself, remove the fictions of law placed upon you personally, remove the imposition of state upon yourself, as it is only upon yourself you can be an example. To remove the drone bombs, the soliders of the Jinn, the banksters draining the wealth of the world, is by becoming an example, by taking back your inalienable rights, living under the immutable laws of nature, by refusing to use the fictions invented to steal, like corporations, states and fiat money. Are you willing to do that? Most are not, so the bombs fall.

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                        • P Offline
                          P Offline
                          Producer
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #40

                          Salaam Producer,

                          quiet clearly you do not understand the law, and you seem to be intentionally dim, I did not say live just as the Afgans, I said the thing that has protected them from the repeated attempts to dominate them has been the polycentric community structure they have in place, a result of the tribal grouping structure, it is the example of this grouping structure I am refering to.

                          I question your comprehension of reality.

                          1. Yes, Most Parts of British-American Govt do uphold to the Common law Court. 2. CIA does assassination all the time, even though the victims clearly do not give consent. These I called Criminals.

                          The Law cannot Stop Criminals, Arms do. What about Nuclear Arms?

                          I doubt seriously you have read the links I posted, you may have glaced at the first paragraph, if you did read them you absorbed nothing, I notice this trait with many, they refuse to understand and continue to spout the same complaints, it has taken me several years to fully grasp the natural law, and you say you are fully versed, simply from reading the black's law dictionary, please explain the structure of a court, the purpose and power of an unrebutted affidavit, do animals have rights in natural law, but I guess, I don't accuse, you will not answer, you will restate the same post you have written previously in this thread, and accuse me of being insulting.

                          Criminals follows the LAW?

                          The situation of Jinn (clinical psychopaths) dominating the family of Adam has not arrived over night, we have lived in fear, fear is the way the Jinn take control, small fears at first, and slowly they steal more and more control, until you arrive at the point of drone bombs and battleships, drugged soliders murdering without conscience, a media whore that supports murder, poverty, ignorance and lies. So to stop that will not happen over night, and the first step is to remove the fear, take responsibility for your own actions, become fully liable and accountable for yourself, remove the fictions of law placed upon you personally, remove the imposition of state upon yourself, as it is only upon yourself you can be an example. To remove the drone bombs, the soliders of the Jinn, the banksters draining the wealth of the world, is by becoming an example, by taking back your inalienable rights, living under the immutable laws of nature, by refusing to use the fictions invented to steal, like corporations, states and fiat money. Are you willing to do that? Most are not, so the bombs fall.

                          "I'm not a Person , I'm a Human Being". "I do NOT give Consent, to you CRIMINALS, to Invade my Allodial Land".

                          Let me suggest you what LAWS criminals abides to, ARMS, lot of arms. What do you think?

                          In American Revolutionary War, American Continental Congress Clearly do not give their Consent to be killed by the Criminal British.

                          Clearly your Common Law Do NOT work on Criminals.

                          You have until now nothing against Criminals. you can atleast say "arms".

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                          • I Offline
                            I Offline
                            IMHO
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #41

                            Salaam Producer,

                            The situation of Jinn (clinical psychopaths) dominating the family of Adam has not arrived over night, we have lived in fear, fear is the way the Jinn take control, small fears at first, and slowly they steal more and more control, until you arrive at the point of drone bombs and battleships, drugged soliders murdering without conscience, a media whore that supports murder, poverty, ignorance and lies. So to stop that will not happen over night, and the first step is to remove the fear, take responsibility for your own actions, become fully liable and accountable for yourself, remove the fictions of law placed upon you personally, remove the imposition of state upon yourself, as it is only upon yourself you can be an example. To remove the drone bombs, the soliders of the Jinn, the banksters draining the wealth of the world, is by becoming an example, by taking back your inalienable rights, living under the immutable laws of nature, by refusing to use the fictions invented to steal, like corporations, states and fiat money. Are you willing to do that? Most are not, so the bombs fall.

                            Couldn't agree with you more handshake

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                            • P Offline
                              P Offline
                              Producer
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #42

                              "Death to Heaven, is Absolute Freedom".

                              Abdun Nur, You have nothing to fear about me.
                              I have nothing against "Allodium Claim", "Allodial Earth".
                              Proof to the world it works. If it works, that is Good, that is Great.

                              Free from man's tyranny , is obedience to Allah, even if it kills you.

                              3157
                              And if you are killed or die in the Way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all that they amass.

                              so, no worries, no fear about getting killed by bombs, nukes, poison, war, etc, because

                              "Death to Heaven, is Absolute Freedom".

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                              • I Offline
                                I Offline
                                IMHO
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #43

                                "Death to Heaven, is Absolute Freedom".

                                Abdun Nur, You have nothing to fear about me.
                                I have nothing against "Allodium Claim", "Allodial Earth".
                                Proof to the world it works. If it works, that is Good, that is Great.

                                Free from man's tyranny , is obedience to Allah, even if it kills you.

                                3157
                                And if you are killed or die in the Way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all that they amass.

                                so, no worries, no fear about getting killed by bombs, nukes, poison, war, etc, because

                                "Death to Heaven, is Absolute Freedom".

                                Salaam
                                The final journary to Heaven is definitely absolute freedom, but until that time we need to rid ourself of all sorts of fear like the fear of being wronged or mocked or poverty as Shaitaan induces fear, so lets pray to God to rid us of all fear. As Roosevelt said "We need only fear fear itself"
                                peace

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                                • P Offline
                                  P Offline
                                  Producer
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #44

                                  Salaam
                                  The final journary to Heaven is definitely absolute freedom, but until that time we need to rid ourself of all sorts of fear like the fear of being wronged or mocked or poverty as Shaitaan induces fear

                                  why wait, we can stop eating, starve and die. That gives freedom from worldly illusion and shaitan's fear.

                                  As Roosevelt said "We need only fear fear itself"
                                  peace

                                  Fear nothing but Allah.

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                                  • I Offline
                                    I Offline
                                    IMHO
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #45

                                    why wait, we can stop eating, starve and die. That gives freedom from worldly illusion and shaitan's fear.

                                    Pathetic response.
                                    Its really sad to see most of you so anxious to rebuff others that you pay no attention to what's been posted.
                                    May Allah grant you patience.

                                    Fear nothing but Allah.

                                    Yet the fact remain that people suffer from fear and satan induces fear
                                    SAY "I seek refuge with the Sustainer of men, 1141

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                                    • P Offline
                                      P Offline
                                      Producer
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #46

                                      Pathetic response.
                                      Its really sad to see most of you so anxious to rebuff others that you pay no attention to what's been posted.

                                      Resorting to Insult. Quran 4911 do not insult one another.
                                      It is a valid response.

                                      Abdun Nur's post is all okay, I have no problem with it, None. If you want to do it, its your Freedom. You are free to do whatever with your life.

                                      why wait, we can stop eating, starve and die. That gives freedom from worldly illusion and shaitan's fear.

                                      Pathetic response.
                                      Its really sad to see most of you so anxious to rebuff others that you pay no attention to what's been posted.

                                      You did not answer the Question, let me answer it;
                                      429 O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.

                                      Guarding God Given Life(Quran 429);
                                      Abdun Nur have all the freedom in the world to do his Idea, so does You and me.

                                      Are you willing to do that? Most are not, so the bombs fall.

                                      Reality face Abdun Nur. Abdun Nur's Ideas on most people just need more time,

                                      My proactive methods, Making healthy environment trough societal effort, a Nation-State is not a threat to Abdun Nur's Ideas, and it can beneficial to Abdun Nur's Ideas.

                                      If living out Biological Lifespan, Abdun Nur's Ideas does that very fine.

                                      Don't forget about Jacque Fresco, Resource-Based Economy, no more property rights/Allodial land.

                                      Many People, many ways to guard their God Given Life.

                                      Yet the fact remain that people suffer from fear and satan induces fear
                                      SAY "I seek refuge with the Sustainer of men, 1141

                                      238 We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

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                                        P Offline
                                        Producer
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #47

                                        Resorting to Insult. Quran 4911 do not insult one another.
                                        It is a valid response.

                                        Abdun Nur's post is all okay, I have no problem with it, None. If you want to do it, its your Freedom. You are free to do whatever with your life.
                                        Pathetic response.
                                        Its really sad to see most of you so anxious to rebuff others that you pay no attention to what's been posted.

                                        You did not answer the Question, let me answer it;
                                        429 O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.

                                        Guarding God Given Life(Quran 429);
                                        Abdun Nur have all the freedom in the world to do his Idea, so does You and me.

                                        Reality face Abdun Nur. Abdun Nur's Ideas on most people just need more time,

                                        My proactive methods, Making healthy environment trough societal effort, a Nation-State is not a threat to Abdun Nur's Ideas, and it can beneficial to Abdun Nur's Ideas.

                                        living out Biological Lifespan, Abdun Nur's Ideas does that very fine.

                                        Don't forget about Jacque Fresco, Resource-Based Economy, no more property rights/Allodial land.

                                        Many People, many ways to guard their God Given Life.

                                        238 We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

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                                        • I Offline
                                          I Offline
                                          IMHO
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #48

                                          Resorting to Insult. Quran 4911 do not insult one another.
                                          It is a valid response.

                                          Salaam Producer
                                          I would like to point out that I had no intention of insulting you. I believe those who throw insults at others are actually insulting themselves as they stoop low, however I am confused,on the one hand you suggested why wait, we can stop eating, starve and die. That gives worldly illusion and shaitan's fear yet quoted, 429 O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful, -\

                                          Reality face Abdun Nur. Abdun Nur's Ideas on most people just need more time,

                                          I can understadn Abdun Nur's point very well as I too have legal knowledge but to carry this idea forward he needs group of brave people, like the ones who are currently camping outside St Paul's Cathedral and, to be quite honest, sadly I don't see many on this forum. peace

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