I have a few questions I am a Christian by way ?
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Are Non Muslime like me allowed to read the Quran ? Can I read a Quran in English ? Does Islam teach that people should be stoned to death for Adultery/Homosexuality and punishing in public those people who drink Alcohol ? Also is the Hadith the word of God in Islam or is it like how the Talmud in Judaism is opinions of the Rabbis ?
Quran means "reader". Its purpose is to be read. English or not, if its a translation than yes. There is no stoned to death in the Quran. Capital punishment is sanctioned for murder only. The Quran says a soul for a soul. But it also says murderers can be exiled from the community. Capital punishment can be lifted. But as far as I see in the Quran its only sanctioned if a person deliberately takes a life without just cause. People here may have different point of view, as we do not have a dogma as Muslims do.
There is no punishment in the Koran for alcohol as such. The Koran only sanctions punishment if something is committed against another person. There is no punishment for "sins". Thats God's job . Sunni Shia Islam see sins as punishable things. The ruler for them is god like.
The hadith has the same place in Islam as the Talmud has in Judaism. Islam here I mean Sunni Shia Islam. Sectarian Islam.But we do not follow, or at least I do not follow, the same Islam as Muslims do. I don't accept the Talmud or Hadith as binding. The only difference between Hadith and Talmud is the Hadith is a prophetic tradition while Talmud is prophetic and rabbinic. There are reasons for this is that the Muslims could not agree on any other authority besides Muhammad. Too much divisions and sects. Muhammad was the one character that they can agree on so they trace their traditions to him mostly and a few of his disciples. But mostly him.
Joseph Schacht explains why the Muslim hadith traces its origins to Muhammad directly and not some other authority as the Talmud often does
The need of creating some kind of theoretical justification for what so far had been an instinctive reliance on the opinions of the majority, led, from the first decades of the second/eighth century onwards, to the living tradition being retrojected, and to its being ascribed to some of the great hgures of the past. This process, too, began in Kufa, where the stage of doctrine achieved in the time of Hammad b. Abi Sulayman (d. I20/73 was attributed to Ibrahim al-Nakha'i (d. 95-6/7I3-I5). The Medinese followed suit and retrojected their own teaching to a number of ancient authorities who had died about the turn of the century, some of whom later became known as the 'seven jurists of Medina'. At the same time as the doctrine of the school of Kufa was retrospectively attributed to Ibrahim al-Nakha'i, a similar body of doctrine was directly connected with the very beginnings of Islam in Kufa by being attributed to Ibn Mas'ud, a Companion of the Prophet who had come to live in that city, and Ibrahim al-Nakha'i became the main transmitter of that body of doctrine, too. In the same way, other Companions of the Prophet became the eponyms of the schools of Medina and of Mecca. One further step in the search for a solid theoretical foundation of the doctrine of the ancient schools was taken in 'Iraq, very early in the second/eighth century, when the term ' Sunna of the Prophet ' was transferred from its political and theological into a legal context, and identified with the sunna, the ideal practice of the local community and the corresponding doctrine of its scholars. This term, which was taken over by the school of Syria, expressed the axiom that the practice of the Muslims derived from the practice of the Prophet, but it did not as yet imply the existence of positive information in the form of ' Traditions ' (Hadith), that the Prophet by his words or acts had in fact originated or approved any particular practice. It was not long before these Traditions, too, came into existence, and the persons who put them into circulation were the Traditionists
The ancient schools of law themselves represented, in one aspect, an Islamic opposition to popular and administrative practice under the later Umayyads, and the opposition group which developed into the Traditionist movement emphasized this tendency. As long as a Companion of the Prophet had been the final authority for the doctrine of a school on a particular point, it was sufficient for a divergent doctrine to be put under the aegis of another Companion of equal or even higher authority, as happened in Kufa where all kinds of minority opinions were attributed to the Caliph 'Ali, who had made Kufa his capital. But after the general authority of the Prophet himself had been invoked by identifying the established doctrine with his sunna, a more specific reference to him was needed, and there appeared detailed statements or 'Traditions' which claimed to be the reports of ear- or eye-witnesses on the words or acts of the Prophet, handed down orally by an uninterrupted chain of trustworthy persons. Very soon the emphasis shifted from proposing certain opinions in opposition to the ancient schools to disseminating Traditions from the Prophet as such, and the movement of the Traditionists, which was to develop into a separate branch of Islamic religious learning, came into being. It was the main thesis of the Traditionists that formal Traditions from the Prophet superseded the living tradition of the school. The Traditionists existed in all great centres of Islam, where they formed groups in opposition to, but nevertheless in contact with, the local schools of law. Initially the ancient schools offered strong resistance to the disturbing element represented by the Traditions, but they had no real defence against their rising tide; they had to express their own doctrines in Traditions which allegedly went back to the Prophet, and to take increasing notice of the Traditions produced by their opponents. Finally the outlines and many details of Islamic law were cast into the form of Traditions from the Prophet. In this way, one of the greatest and most successful literary fictions came into being.
http//www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/schacht.asp
Too much divisions. Its a very large community and Muhammad was the one authority who they can agree on. All the sects of Islam whether Sunni or Shia or Zaydi or Ismaeli trace their traditions to Muhammad directly.
Both these religions believe their oral traditions are binding. They both believe that the oral traditions can abrogate the scripture. Both believe that following the scripture by itself is not acceptable and they both would not consider that person a part of their community. Both say the scripture can not be understood except by following the oral traditions. The followers of the Talmud were known in the Gospel as the Pharisees. They were Jesus's main enemies and Jesus cursed them.
Because of
Matt 151-3 "Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread." He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?"
Matt 231-5 "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men."
The Talmud made it imossible for Jews to assimilate as it isolated them from mankind. The Hadith gave us the Taliban. brickwall
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Moreover, the punishment for a slave woman guilty of indecency/lewdness (fahishah) is to receive half the punishment of that of a free woman as per Quran 425. Thus you can never support stoning as a punishment for adultry from the quran, because stoning leds to death, and yu cannot half kill someone, if the person guilty is a slave
If Quran established law for slave, does it mean Quran allow or approve slavery?
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If Quran established law for slave, does it mean Quran allow or approve slavery?
That depends on how you translate "ma malakat aymanukum". I see the verse as talking about concubines and not slaves. Slavery is an act of shirk, since only God owns humans and not humans owning other humans. This is one of the condemnation Moses gave to the Pharoah.
26.18-26 (Pharaoh) said "Did we not cherish thee as a child among us, and didst thou not stay in our midst many years of thy life? And thou didst a deed of thine which (thou knowest) thou didst, and thou art an ungrateful (wretch)!" Moses said "I did it then, when I was in error. "So I fled from you (all) when I feared you; but my Lord has (since) invested me with judgment (and wisdom) and appointed me as one of the apostles. "And this is the favour with which thou dost reproach me,- that thou hast enslaved the Children of Israel!"
Plus why would the Koran tell people to emanicipate slaves if there is nothing wrong with slavery?
2.177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah.fearing
The Koran can't say that freeing slaves is an act of righteousness and then see nothing wrong with slavery. People can say these were practices that existed before the Koran so the Koran acted practically. Well so did idol worship exist.
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Plus why would the Koran tell people to emanicipate slaves if there is nothing wrong with slavery?
Emancipating slave is an act of humanity. When you see something wrong then there should be a law to prevent this wrong doing and punish the wrong doer. Why there is not a single verse in Quran forbid slavery?
590 O you who believe! intoxicants and games of chance and (sacrificing to) stones set up and (dividing by) arrows are only an uncleanness, the Shaitan's work; shun it therefore that you may be successful.
Slavery is worst than the Shaitan's works described in above verse but Quran don't state it stand on slavery issue.
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Emancipating slave is an act of humanity. When you see something wrong then there should be a law to prevent this wrong doing and punish the wrong doer. Why there is not a single verse in Quran forbid slavery?
590 O you who believe! intoxicants and games of chance and (sacrificing to) stones set up and (dividing by) arrows are only an uncleanness, the Shaitan's work; shun it therefore that you may be successful.
Slavery is worst than the Shaitan's works described in above verse but Quran don't state it stand on slavery issue.
Did the Koran tell us not to rape women? But it said that was one of the things the Pharoah did. It also told us the Pharoah enslaved the Israelites. It told us he was a tyrant. So do the math.
Did the Koran tell us not to execute prisoners? It told us what should be done to them and placed it in the criteria of righteousness. Even if the Koran explicitly said so the sects would have simply abrogated it. There are many verses that limited the prophet's authority, yet the sects abrogated them all.
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Did the Koran tell us not to rape women? But it said that was one of the things the Pharoah did. It also told us the Pharoah enslaved the Israelites. It told us he was a tyrant. So do the math.
Did the Koran tell us not to execute prisoners? It told us what should be done to them and placed it in the criteria of righteousness. Even if the Koran explicitly said so the sects would have simply abrogated it. There are many verses that limited the prophet's authority, yet the sects abrogated them all.
From Quran point of view, is it a sin or crime to enslave other human being?
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From Quran point of view, is it a sin or crime to enslave other human being?
Peace, the believers are nice people and it's crime to harm anyone unless in self defense.
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22 that the book not doubt in it guidance to the mindful
23 the ones who they believe in the unseen and establish the prayer and from what we provided them they spend
24 and the ones who they believe in what sent down to you and what sent down from before you and in the afterlife they firmly believe
25 those on guidance from their Lord and those who they the successful -
From Quran point of view, is it a sin or crime to enslave other human being?
Well to be fair, issues like prisoners and slaves are for the elites and the ruling class. Its not something that most people would experience or be in a position to decide upon.
But looking at how Moses looked at it, it seems to be a crime.
These are Verses of the manifest Book (that makes clear truth from falsehood, good from evil, etc.). We recite to you some of the news of Moses and Pharaoh in truth, for a people who believe (those who believe in this Quran, and in the Oneness of Allah). Verily, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people sects, weakening (oppressing) a group among them, killing their sons, and letting their females live. Verily, he was of the Mufsideen (those who commit great sins and crimes, oppressors, tyrants, etc.). And we wished to do a favor to those who were weak (and oppressed) in the land, and to make them rulers and to make them the inheritors, and to establish them in the land, and We let Pharaoh and Haman and their hosts receive from them that which they feared. And We inspired the mother of Moses, saying "Suckle him (Moses), but when you fear for him, then cast him into the river and fear not, nor grieve. Verily! We shall bring him back to you, and shall make him one of (Our) Messengers." (Ch 28 2-7 Quran).
And remember when We rescued you from Pharaoh's people, who were afflicted you with the worst torment, killing your sons, and letting your women live. And in that was a great trial from your Lord. (Ch 7138-141 Quran)
So its a form of oppression so Moses commented on that when he reminded the Pharoah that whatever favor he did for Moses was first because the phraoah's oppression forced Moses's mother to place him in the river in the first place and he ended up in the Pharoah's household and second he reminded the Pharoah of his enslavement of the Israelites and probably others too.
Nobody would want to be a slave so why would you want it for others.
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Peace, the believers are nice people and it's crime to harm anyone unless in self defense.
Not all nice peoples are believer of certain faith or religion and not all believers are nice peoples. Many terrorist groups also claim that they are believers of certain faith.
I'm the believer of truth and the truth is that Quran didn't say 'yes' or 'no' to slavery, the highest priority issue of human to human relationship. Modern civilization had denounced slavery and realized it through human rights act and local laws.
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Not all nice peoples are believer of certain faith or religion and not all believers are nice peoples. Many terrorist groups also claim that they are believers of certain faith.
I'm the believer of truth and the truth is that Quran didn't say 'yes' or 'no' to slavery, the highest priority issue of human to human relationship. Modern civilization had denounced slavery and realized it through human rights act and local laws.
Industrialization ended slavery and not what you think. Plus the part when you said the Koran neither said yes or no to slavery sounds like Sunni Islam. I bet thats the background you came from. Your view about alcohol sounds very Sunni. I also came from that background and I know the mindset.
When the Koran says "shun it" in the verse you quoted (5-90), is it the Alcohol and gambling to shun or the Shaytan? Is its shun it or shun him? The verse after it tells us that its one of Shaytan's tools. Shaytan has many tools, including fear and anger.
Not everyone who drinks alcohol neglets Salaat and gets invloved in animosity and hostility with others. Just like not everyone who eats fatty foods becomes fat. But your reading sounds very similar to Sunni Islam.
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Well to be fair, issues like prisoners and slaves are for the elites and the ruling class. Its not something that most people would experience or be in a position to decide upon.
From Quran point of view, Prophet or 'Nabi' is the most elite of the elites thus he is the right person to look into the slavery issue. Guided by Quran, Muhammad does not put a stop to slavery. He rather preferred to dwell on other less important issues such as 'where-to-eat' issue which to me is totally nonsense.
2461 No blame is there upon the blind nor any blame upon the lame nor any blame upon the sick nor on yourselves if ye eat from your houses, or the houses of your fathers, or the houses of your mothers, or the houses of your brothers, or the houses of your sisters, or the houses of your fathers' brothers, or the houses of your fathers' sisters, or the houses of your mothers' brothers, or the houses of your mothers' sisters, or (from that) whereof ye hold the keys, or (from the house) of a friend. No sin shall it be for you whether ye eat together or apart. But when ye enter houses, salute one another with a greeting from Allah, blessed and sweet. Thus Allah maketh clear His revelations for you, that haply ye may understand
This 'where-to-eat' issue is nothing compare to slavery but Quran give more priority to the former issue. It is not acceptable for a book that claim to have solutions to mankind problems doesn't really want to put a stop to slavery.
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From Quran point of view, Prophet or 'Nabi' is the most elite of the elites thus he is the right person to look into the slavery issue. Guided by Quran, Muhammad does not put a stop to slavery. He rather preferred to dwell on other less important issues such as 'where-to-eat' issue which to me is totally nonsense.
2461 No blame is there upon the blind nor any blame upon the lame nor any blame upon the sick nor on yourselves if ye eat from your houses, or the houses of your fathers, or the houses of your mothers, or the houses of your brothers, or the houses of your sisters, or the houses of your fathers' brothers, or the houses of your fathers' sisters, or the houses of your mothers' brothers, or the houses of your mothers' sisters, or (from that) whereof ye hold the keys, or (from the house) of a friend. No sin shall it be for you whether ye eat together or apart. But when ye enter houses, salute one another with a greeting from Allah, blessed and sweet. Thus Allah maketh clear His revelations for you, that haply ye may understand
This 'where-to-eat' issue is nothing compare to slavery but Quran give more priority to the former issue. It is not acceptable for a book that claim to have solutions to mankind problems doesn't really want to put a stop to slavery.
2.177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah.fearing
76.5-6 And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive. , "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah . We wish not from you reward or gratitude.
Have you seen him who denies the religion? He is the one who harshly rebuffs the orphan and does not urge the feeding of the poor. So woe to those who do prayer, and are forgetful of their prayer, those who show off and deny help to others. (Surat al-Ma'un 1-7)
Allah issues a stern warning to those who misappropriate the wealth of orphans People who consume the property of orphans wrongfully consume nothing in their bellies except fire. They will roast in a Searing Blaze. (Surat an-Nisa' 10)
Give orphans their property, and do not substitute bad things for good. Do not assimilate their property into your own. Doing that is a serious crime. (Surat an-Nisa' 2)
It seems that you came to bash Islam since it seems there are many things the Koran is concerned about rather than food. But looks like you came to the wrong site. Many Islam bashers have a hard time here since Koran is not easy to bash like Sunni Shia religion. So you are looking for any oxygen to breathe on and looks like you thing slavery is an issue you can use to critique the Koran.
But there is not much oxygen there.
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But looks like you came to the wrong site. Many Islam bashers have a hard time here since Koran is not easy to bash like Sunni Shia religion. So you are looking for any oxygen to breathe on and looks like you thing slavery is an issue you can use to critique the Koran.
Not easy doesn't mean impossible. It seems that you do realized that there are weaknesses in Quran.
The slavery issue is one of the Quran weaknesses. It will place its believer with a noble heart in dilemma because good people dissaprove slavery but Quran does not classified it as 'haram'. However, not many Muslim know about this as to them Islam is a religion that free human from any form of slavery and they assumed Quran had put slavery to stop. Quran Alone believer knew this very well that slavery is not 'haram' as they study Quran indepth (word by word, line by line) but it is hard for them to admit.
482 Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
Not to 'haram' the slavery is discrepancy to humanity feeling which had been the 'fitrah' of every human being. Let's carefully consider the Quran and accept the challenge made by this verse. If not much discrepancy to be found, one or two are inside Quran.
Sacred Months is another discrepancy in Quran. Quran claimed that it had explained in detail whatever things that god want human to practice per below verse.
6114 Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt
However for Sacred Months case, the names of the 4 sacred months are not mentioned in Quran and there is no way for Quran Alone believers to know what months are the sacred months. There are major dos and don'ts during these sacred months and please refer to the following link for verses related to Sacred Months.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603158.0
The names of these months can only be found in 'hadith' and this suggests that Quran cannot stand by its own. This is a good news for those who addicted to 'hadith' since Quran need those tales to complete or perfect it.
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Not easy doesn't mean impossible. It seems that you do realized that there are weaknesses in Quran.
The slavery issue is one of the Quran weaknesses. It will place its believer with a noble heart in dilemma because good people dissaprove slavery but Quran does not classified it as 'haram'. However, not many Muslim know about this as to them Islam is a religion that free human from any form of slavery and they assumed Quran had put slavery to stop. Quran Alone believer knew this very well that slavery is not 'haram' as they study Quran indepth (word by word, line by line) but it is hard for them to admit.
482 Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
Not to 'haram' the slavery is discrepancy to humanity feeling which had been the 'fitrah' of every human being. Let's carefully consider the Quran and accept the challenge made by this verse. If not much discrepancy to be found, one or two are inside Quran.
Sacred Months is another discrepancy in Quran. Quran claimed that it had explained in detail whatever things that god want human to practice per below verse.
6114 Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt
However for Sacred Months case, the names of the 4 sacred months are not mentioned in Quran and there is no way for Quran Alone believers to know what months are the sacred months. There are major dos and don'ts during these sacred months and please refer to the following link for verses related to Sacred Months.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603158.0
The names of these months can only be found in 'hadith' and this suggests that Quran cannot stand by its own. This is a good news for those who addicted to 'hadith' since Quran need those tales to complete or perfect it.
Peace, dude.
I really hope that all people disapprove and hate slavery. If there is someone who thinks that slavery is a good thing, than he should be sent for mental treatment. Or he should be sold into slavery, so he knows what it means to be a slave.
Secondly, didnt I told you before, that anyone who sets up a partner beside God is a sinner? MUSHRIK?
Hence BEING a slave is a great sin, the only crime god does not forgive.
Peace
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Peace, dude.
I really hope that all people disapprove and hate slavery. If there is someone who thinks that slavery is a good thing, than he should be sent for mental treatment. Or he should be sold into slavery, so he knows what it means to be a slave. Secondly, didnt I told you before, that anyone who sets up a partner beside God is a sinner? MUSHRIK? Hence BEING a slave is a great sin, the only crime god does not forgive. PeaceExcellent point there!! Never thought of that. However Allah (swt) has not made it a sin as far as I can see. Freeing a slave would fall under the obligation to fight oppression though I suppose. hmm
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Peace, dude.
I really hope that all people disapprove and hate slavery. If there is someone who thinks that slavery is a good thing, than he should be sent for mental treatment. Or he should be sold into slavery, so he knows what it means to be a slave.
PeaceMultinational companies, who are constantly seeking cheap labour in very poor countries to manufacture their higly priced designer goods, often involving children who are paid a pittance, and then they sell those items abroad at a premium price; does that not come under enslaving whole nations?!
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I suppose some people approach the Qur'an without minding what it says about itself
It is it is a guide to those who are conscious of God, who believe in the unseen, et. etc. beginning of Al Bqara...
The Qur'an is not a recipe book nor a book where you do not have to reflect nor reason, because you will be directed like with a traffic light. The Qur'an is not that. So if somebody says it does not forbid slavery, why should it forbide it? Are people silly enough not to reflect and be conscious of God, so that they would have slavery?
Do they need a traffic light for that after hearing and thinking of the Qur'an?
The qur'an is not a slongan or manifesto, it is a guidance, if you follow it you will not keep slaves, even if there is no traffic light for it. Even if it was forbidden as there are other things forbidden and people did not want to follow the Qur'an, they would not follow and they wowuld still have slavery under whatever subterfuge.
The Qur'an does not pander to political correctness or to whimses of people that choose not to understand when they could understand perfectly if they were really conscious.
No fault of the Qur'an, but the whimses of the "perfect" readers who would want to have traffic lights as if they could not use their inteleect. The Qur'an tells us to use the intelect no to be donkeys loaded with books.
Salaam
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I suppose some people approach the Qur'an without minding what it says about itself
It is it is a guide to those who are conscious of God, who believe in the unseen, et. etc. beginning of Al Bqara...
The Qur'an is not a recipe book nor a book where you do not have to reflect nor reason, because you will be directed like with a traffic light. The Qur'an is not that. So if somebody says it does not forbid slavery, why should it forbide it? Are people silly enough not to reflect and be conscious of God, so that they would have slavery?
Do they need a traffic light for that after hearing and thinking of the Qur'an?
The qur'an is not a slongan or manifesto, it is a guidance, if you follow it you will not keep slaves, even if there is no traffic light for it. Even if it was forbidden as there are other things forbidden and people did not want to follow the Qur'an, they would not follow and they wowuld still have slavery under whatever subterfuge.
The Qur'an does not pander to political correctness or to whimses of people that choose not to understand when they could understand perfectly if they were really conscious.
No fault of the Qur'an, but the whimses of the "perfect" readers who would want to have traffic lights as if they could not use their inteleect. The Qur'an tells us to use the intelect no to be donkeys loaded with books.
Salaam
Very good point but you also need to understand is that we are still looking at the verses one issue at a time. Its only when you can see the Koran as a whole taht you can understand its message.
This is why i talked about the prophetic authority in the Koran as compared to the Sunnah. The prophetic authority (the highest authority a human can have) is a limited authority in the Koran.
Slavery requires absolute authority which is not what you can find in the Koran. But you could find it in abundance in the Sunnah. The Sunnah gives the ruler absolute authority. The authority of life and death. Like what the King told Abraham.
When I talk about authority, I mean the authority the ruler has and society has over the individual. If the individual has the right to disbelieve in God and ridicules his prophets, then this individual has the freedom to do anything since disbelieving in God and ridiculing his prophets is the worst thing a human can do. So the sects had no choice but to abrogate all the verses in the Koran that gives the prophet limited authority.
The "I was ordered to fight the people till they say God is one" hadith is a perfect example of the absolute authority the Sunnah gives the prophet. This authority can now be transfered by default to the ruler. The "whover changes his religion then kill him" hadith is another example.
So for you to take someone as a slave you need to have authority over him. The question from a Koranic point of view is where do you get such authority. The only time I can see that if someone owes someone money he can't pay then he becomes a slave to that person till the money is paid back or he works for the other person till he compensates for his loss.
Authroity is not easy to have. One of the goals of the Sunnah is to elevate the prophetic authority to absolute authority and then this new authority becomes the authority of the state.
This is the whole Ron Paul argument. You can't have a free society with a big government. He means a government with too much authority.
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But we are SLAVES to Allah, in this case is it still a big sin?
This question puzzled me from my sister's husband. If slavery is so evil then why are you to call yourselfs God's slaves? I was stumped on this. He asked about the slavery issue in Qu'ran, meanwhile he is a born again.. HELLO.. read the bible. Anyway the info you guys pointed to did help untill after I explained how much a sin slavery was then he hit me with that. Any help?? I see him on Thanksgiving, I am SURE it will come up.
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But we are SLAVES to Allah, in this case is it still a big sin?
This question puzzled me from my sister's husband. If slavery is so evil then why are you to call yourselfs God's slaves? I was stumped on this. He asked about the slavery issue in Qu'ran, meanwhile he is a born again.. HELLO.. read the bible. Anyway the info you guys pointed to did help untill after I explained how much a sin slavery was then he hit me with that. Any help?? I see him on Thanksgiving, I am SURE it will come up.
How can being slaves/servants to Almighty God be a sin? Isn't God our lawmaker??? Sin is only what God says is sin.
Peace,
Kevin