Christian with a question
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As far as considering conversion to Islam, I have to say I have felt more brotherhood and a better feeling of God in a Mosque than I have in a church.
Why not join both?
As thus you have more brotherhood and more better feeling of God.
The sum of both parts is always greater than the part itself right?Salam / Peace
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@ Jafar
That is probably what I will end up doing anyway. My wife is Christian and as such I go to church with her. But in the area where I live, Islam and Christianity do not get along. I probably will go to mosque on Friday and church on Sunday, which is what I see a lot of multifaith couples do anyways.
I apologize if I seem scattered in my questions/statements, but I am confused and yet looking at history I cannot fully trust a belief system, whether Christian or Muslim that bases most of its ideas on mans opinions. I have never fully understood the trinity for example, and I prefer the Muslim way of praying. I just feel that man makes religion way too complicated.
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@ Jafar
That is probably what I will end up doing anyway. My wife is Christian and as such I go to church with her. But in the area where I live, Islam and Christianity do not get along.
It's nearly everywhere my friend.. that's what sectarianism brings anyway... animosity and hatred between sect/religion...
More than that; Sunnis and Shiites doesn't get along the same as Catholics and Orthodox.. etc...
I probably will go to mosque on Friday and church on Sunday, which is what I see a lot of multifaith couples do anyways.
Hmmm.. then you should convert to Judaism too...
As thus you can go to Mosque on Friday, Synagogue on Saturday and Church on sunday. Isn't that great?? Triple the goodness!!I just feel that man makes religion way too complicated.
That's true.. all religions and sects are man made anyway... and God doesn't care about your religion/sects...
Muslim is an achievement through deeds and virtues and not through membership of certain sect or religion.Salam / Peace
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Shalom,
Welcome . The traditional Muslim would debate with a christian over the "authority" of St. Paul/Mark/Matthew/Luke/John to attribute things to Jesus. Their common arguments are such as
- Jesus was not there to verify whatever the gospels say about him. (since they were not checked by him)
- Who Authorized the gospel writers ?
- When JESUS himself says something, it should be more important than what PAUL says. That is, giving JESUS more authority than anyone else.
My response to such hypocrisy by the traditional muslims
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Muhammad was not there to verify the Sahih-Hadiths . They were collected and compiled roughly 2 centuries after Muhammad. If you can accept that as divine guidance, why not accept the New testament ? The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus.
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Who authorized Bukhari/Muslim/Abu Dawood/hadith collectors ?
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Why can't Paul contradict Jesus and Christians follow Paul ? Probably the same reason why the Qur'an says to hold Salat in middle tone (17110), not too loud or silently, while you all become silent in the Salat when its day time, and at night , you hold half of it silently. The same reason the Qur'an asks you to give 100 lashing(2402) to any adulterer wile you stone the married adulterers to death. The same reason Qur'an says that you can't force me to be or stay a muslim (2256 , 1682, 6107, 479-80, 1128, 2267, 3941) but you have to give death penalty to anyone who leaves the religion by his/her choice. I could go on showing these differences, but does it matter ?
PEACE
---------------------- Student of AllahFirst I would like to say peace to everyone of you and Quoting you "The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus." not only that the earliest actual papyri writing of the New Testament is not dated older/lower than the 2nd century CE and lets not forget the absurdity of the scriptures around that time such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus' Allegedly killed boys.
Writings can be attributed to righteous prophets including Muhammad. Such as those writings long after Muhammad's death other than the Qur'an, in which they state that he killed 900 Jews which draws similarities from an ancient story from the 1st century CE about the Jewish rebellion against the romans, some Jews fled south with similarities to this story.
More details here
http//www.facebook.com/notes/surrender-to-allah/did-prophet-muhammad-ordered-900-jews-killed-/202923833081276
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First I would like to say peace to everyone of you and Quoting you "The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus." not only that the earliest actual papyri writing of the New Testament is not dated older/lower than the 2nd century CE and lets not forget the absurdity of the scriptures around that time such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus' Allegedly killed boys.
Writings can be attributed to righteous prophets including Muhammad. Such as those writings long after Muhammad's death other than the Qur'an, in which they state that he killed 900 Jews which draws similarities from an ancient story from the 1st century CE about the Jewish rebellion against the romans, some Jews fled south with similarities to this story.
More details here
http//www.facebook.com/notes/surrender-to-allah/did-prophet-muhammad-ordered-900-jews-killed-/202923833081276
Shalom my friend,
I was not talking about the new testament. I was talking about a piece of it. As we know that the NT is made up of many pieces of recordings put together, I was only talking about ONE of them So, yes, you are correct about the NT as a whole emerging in scene centuries later.
PEACE
------------------ Student of Allah -
I am currently a Christian but am seriously considering conversion to Islam. .......
You already have everything that needed to be a good and noble human being. Free yourself and follow the 'Book' which is inside you since day 1 you were born into this world. Just make sure that your existence give good impact to other fellow human, creatures and world around you. It is not what you follow or believe that matter, it is what you do.
If you want to believe in GOD, believe that He needs nothing from His creations. Whatever you do not going to add or reduce His power.
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All the replies have given me great things to consider, and thanks again for the input. It is refreshing to find a site that sees the truth behind the Abrahamic religions, that we are all worshiping the same God. As I said before, I personally like going to a mosque and doing the salat on a personal level, some may prefer a church, such as my wife, or a synagogue. All one can hope is to find the best way to worship God in their own way.
Now, here is a question, what in your opinion could the various religions learn from the perspective of the other? What could a follower of Islam learn from the Scriptures, a Jew from the Koran, etc.? I would think a different angle on the same goal can give a better view of the desired end, if nothing else cause one to expand their thoughts.
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First I would like to say peace to everyone of you and Quoting you "The earliest recordings are dated 50 years after Jesus." not only that the earliest actual papyri writing of the New Testament is not dated older/lower than the 2nd century CE and lets not forget the absurdity of the scriptures around that time such as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus' Allegedly killed boys.
Writings can be attributed to righteous prophets including Muhammad. Such as those writings long after Muhammad's death other than the Qur'an, in which they state that he killed 900 Jews which draws similarities from an ancient story from the 1st century CE about the Jewish rebellion against the romans, some Jews fled south with similarities to this story.
More details here
http//www.facebook.com/notes/surrender-to-allah/did-prophet-muhammad-ordered-900-jews-killed-/202923833081276
Peace be to you.
Quoting Student of Allah "Shalom my friend,
I was not talking about the new testament. I was talking about a piece of it. As we know that the NT is made up of many pieces of recordings put together, I was only talking about ONE of them ) So, yes, you are correct about the NT as a whole emerging in scene centuries later.PEACE"
No your right, I made a mistake, I should have reworded my paragraph, I also meant a piece of it, a fragment of a chapter of a single gospel. Didn't mean the whole new testament, the earliest actual whole New Testament is from the 4th century. Sorry. I meant no disrespect just add on.
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All the replies have given me great things to consider, and thanks again for the input. It is refreshing to find a site that sees the truth behind the Abrahamic religions, that we are all worshiping the same God. As I said before, I personally like going to a mosque and doing the salat on a personal level, some may prefer a church, such as my wife, or a synagogue. All one can hope is to find the best way to worship God in their own way.
Now, here is a question, what in your opinion could the various religions learn from the perspective of the other? What could a follower of Islam learn from the Scriptures, a Jew from the Koran, etc.? I would think a different angle on the same goal can give a better view of the desired end, if nothing else cause one to expand their thoughts.
I started with the Bible for the first time when I was 26 without Christian interpretation, I felt enlightenment. When I heard mainstream Christian interpretation there was conflict on what I understood. Then I came across the Qur'an later and found finality and understanding without mainstream Muslim interpretation. I felt complete. Then when I heard Muslim interpretation with Hadith I felt some conflict.
I still keep a New Testament at home, also a Tanakh, I even have Zoroastrian, Egyptian, Apocrypha, even the (Supposed) complete Dead Sea Scrolls scripture. Love them all. But to what your question was, and from my personal journey and my understanding is there are three things we need in life for salvation that is
- Recognition of Allah (The God, Oneness of the Entity)
- Recognition of yourself (Existence, Purpose)
- Recognition of others (Altruistic Behavior)
I believe learning from each other is key in life. Peace.
My pages
http//www.facebook.com/TheSurrenderManifesto
http//www.facebook.com/SurrendertoAllah
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This has been a great thread for thought, I to am in the same situation, loving the Quran, but worried over the traditions, on facebook I get notice's from Muslims all the time saying, stay away from Quran people only, they change the Quran to fit there faith. I don't see this, I am so happy to be in a group like this, to grow, and learn, thanks to all whom has posted.
Mike -
Now, here is a question, what in your opinion could the various religions learn from the perspective of the other? What could a follower of Islam learn from the Scriptures, a Jew from the Koran, etc.? I would think a different angle on the same goal can give a better view of the desired end, if nothing else cause one to expand their thoughts.
Salaam Stumpy,
543
543 And how can they make you their judge when they have the Torah, in which there is the judgment of God; then they turn away after that. Those are not believers.547
547 And let the people of the Injeel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.Hope this help, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
This has been a great thread for thought, I to am in the same situation, loving the Quran, but worried over the traditions, on facebook I get notice's from Muslims all the time saying, stay away from Quran people only, they change the Quran to fit there faith. I don't see this, I am so happy to be in a group like this, to grow, and learn, thanks to all whom has posted.
MikeSalaam Mike,
welcome brother
Mohammed M. Khan
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Hello,
Actually there is no difference between being Christian or Muslim in Quranic aspect. Quran is not such a book which suggesting to convert one from another. It is all about obey the truth and submitting (submitter=muslim, submission=islam) to God as a plain human being. Hope that you aware how simple is it.
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This has been a great thread for thought, I to am in the same situation, loving the Quran, but worried over the traditions, on facebook I get notice's from Muslims all the time saying, stay away from Quran people only, they change the Quran to fit there faith. I don't see this, I am so happy to be in a group like this, to grow, and learn, thanks to all whom has posted.
MikeSome (or most) Muslim's think Quran alone Muslim's are evil, it makes me wonder why considering in
Qur'an 262 "VERILY, those who have attained to faith , as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds - shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve."
they act as if we don't rank in this verse at all. Hypocrisy?
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This has been a great thread for thought, I to am in the same situation, loving the Quran, but worried over the traditions, on facebook I get notice's from Muslims all the time saying, stay away from Quran people only, they change the Quran to fit there faith. I don't see this, I am so happy to be in a group like this, to grow, and learn, thanks to all whom has posted.
MikePeace to you Michael. Relating to what you said about those people
"...Truth stands out clear from Error whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." Qur'an 2256.
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@ Jafar
That is probably what I will end up doing anyway. My wife is Christian and as such I go to church with her. But in the area where I live, Islam and Christianity do not get along. I probably will go to mosque on Friday and church on Sunday, which is what I see a lot of multifaith couples do anyways.
I apologize if I seem scattered in my questions/statements, but I am confused and yet looking at history I cannot fully trust a belief system, whether Christian or Muslim that bases most of its ideas on mans opinions. I have never fully understood the trinity for example, and I prefer the Muslim way of praying. I just feel that man makes religion way too complicated.
The example
If Allah's command (Pure and simple, to be written) is to jump. Then...
Men **** it up by telling others exactly how high, the distance, what day to do it, with or without shoes, on a rainy day or not, possibly if the sun is in the right position, or at night, what time, on time, the twirl. then it is written. Thank you leaders of the world, for misleading many, you ***holes. Now I know how Isa (Alaihisalam) felt speaking against the Pharisee's and their distortion of simpleness.
I know what I did wrong, but do you leaders? The answer is the twelve. Reason and Logic remains.
Ahmad, Isa, etc. Alaihissalam, carriers of the pureness, in which we are bestowed.
Recitation, section fifty three, sign three and four.
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sun
"Those who listen to the Word and follow the best (meaning) in it, those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones indued with understanding." Qur'an 3918.
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The example
If Allah's command (Pure and simple, to be written) is to jump. Then...
Men **** it up by telling others exactly how high, the distance, what day to do it, with or without shoes, on a rainy day or not, possibly if the sun is in the right position, or at night, what time, on time, the twirl. then it is written.
LOL. Love it! Excellent example
I actually have a good friend who is sunni, he helped me alot with learning some recitation. Anyway we were talking about various things in religion. I told him that I no longer consider myself a follower of hadith. I was expecting him to start with the lectures, but he said well then what are you if not a sunni muslim. I said I am a muslim who only follows the Qur'an. He then stated. Well, I guess you can't go wrong in that since it is the Book of Allah, I can't say anything. It was the first time I heard a sunni say this toward me. Others seem to feel sad for me.
I came across this quote and it keeps a smile on my face when my fellow muslims (sunni) critize me.
"People with wisdom know that it is important to correct their own mistakes, while people without wisdom find it necessary to point out the mistakes of others. People with strong faith know that it is important to clear their own hearts, while those with unsteady faith seek to find fault in the hearts and prayers of others. This becomes a habit in their lives. But those who pray to Allah with faith, determination, and certitude know that the most important thing in life is to surrender their hearts to Allah." ~Bawa Muhaiyaddeen
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This has been a great thread for thought, I to am in the same situation, loving the Quran, but worried over the traditions, on facebook I get notice's from Muslims all the time saying, stay away from Quran people only, they change the Quran to fit there faith. I don't see this, I am so happy to be in a group like this, to grow, and learn, thanks to all whom has posted.
MikeSalam Michael
You should remember those Muslims that they are the ones that are following the man made Hadiths and contradicting the Qur'an. Qur'an is the message from God, no one can change or add anything to it because Allah will punish him/her/them.