Wife beating in islam? The Quran strikes back
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The context rules. Why would the army of "muslims" kill the slaves first? The word drb on its own, according to classical dictionaries, mean to strike with a sword or to strike to kill. When we say strike the "rigaab" it would mean, according to you, (kill the slaves). Did the army even reach the stage of having slaves, let alone kill them specifically?
This is not my understanding.
I translate it like thisFor reason/in response when you people have confronted in war those who have refused to believe then resultantly the obvious target are the necks/human bodies-mutual hitting till such point in time that you have succeeded in overpowering/caused them drop weapons/made them exhausted/subdued
thereat you people are hereby directed to firmly bind-arrest them/take them prisoners of war, since the questions of releasing them as gesture of obliging favour or on ransom arises afterwards when the war may surrender/lay down the weapons . -
This is not my understanding.
I translate it like thisFor reason/in response when you people have confronted in war those who have refused to believe then resultantly the obvious target are the necks/human bodies-mutual hitting
I still don't understand where you got "drb arriqaab" means kill them? drb alone suffies. Moreover, killing in fighting does not necessarily target necks. There is nowhere in the qur'aan this expression is used to mean just kill, although killing enemies and transgressors in war is mentioned more than once, and the simple verb "qtl" is used.
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I still don't understand where you got "drb arriqaab" means kill them?
I did not say this. Two parties are confronting war with each other. This signifies only one thing, each party is targetting and focussing on the necks/human bodies of the members of the other party. Thereafter, one party becomes subdued or surrenders whereby hostility aimed at killing the members of other party comes to halt.
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I still don't understand where you got "drb arriqaab" means kill them?
I did not say this. Two parties are confronting war with each other. This signifies only one thing, each party is targetting and focussing on the necks/human bodies of the members of the other party.
So you are saying it targeting and focusing on the necks\ human bodies!
What else would a simple verb as qtl or even drb not explain?
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Shalom,
I think Shabir Ally was talking about this same thing as I saw in one of his videos. He said he wrote a paper where he demonstrated that the meaning is not to beat but to cite them to authority.
PEACE
-------------------- Student of Allah -
So you are saying it targeting and focusing on the necks\ human bodies!
What else would a simple verb as qtl or even drb not explain?
We see the statement as is in the text and as it is related with other words in the sentence to perceive what is conveyed by this choice of words. We do not argue with the writer's choice of words. We have to perceive what is with us.
The possessive phrase, with a definite verbal noun because of second noun being definite, is the apodosis clause. It is not a command but mere depiction of that which happens once the confronting armies are face to face, have already met in the battlefield.
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We see the statement as is in the text and as it is related with other words in the sentence to perceive what is conveyed by this choice of words. We do not argue with the writer's choice of words. We have to perceive what is with us.
I am not arguing with the writer. am arguing with you who believe the writer is inserting meaningless words, unlike His way of describing the same action all over the qur'aan.
A command, an advice or even just a description, the expression is still meaningless. Even you could not just keep with "strike the neck" but had to add "or the human body", and this still does not help!
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Then how would it become "meaningful"---what is its meanings which seem meaningful in the whole sentence/context.
Considering the army as a body and its "rigaab" are the lead soldiers. Those are the ones to be killed/ attacked to paralyze the aggression. Once this is achieved, captivate the others.
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Considering the army as a body and its "rigaab" are the lead soldiers. Those are the ones to be killed/ attacked to paralyze the aggression. Once this is achieved, captivate the others.
Sister please put it with the complete translation, so that I can comprehend it more clearly; notwithstanding that lead soldiers are nowhere considered as the most crucial formation of the battlefield. The attack and full agression follows after them.
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Sister please put it with the complete translation, so that I can comprehend it more clearly; notwithstanding that lead soldiers are nowhere considered as the most crucial formation of the battlefield. The attack and full agression follows after them.
The result of this " " is exhausting the aggression and enabling you to take them as captives. The aim is not to create a genocide. Remember, the "muslims" are not the aggressors but the defendants. They are being attacked. They have to have a good strategy to subdue the enemy. The "rigaab" of the army are the most important. I believed they were the lead soldiers. I may be wrong, but the rigaab are the most important of the army. After the exhaustion comes the captivation and the negotiations.
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The result of this " " is exhausting the aggression and enabling you to take them as captives. The aim is not to create a genocide. Remember, the "muslims" are not the aggressors but the defendants. They are being attacked. They have to have a good strategy to subdue the enemy. The "rigaab" of the army are the most important. I believed they were the lead soldiers. I may be wrong, but the rigaab are the most important of the army. After the exhaustion comes the captivation and the negotiations.
This perception that the operative strategy in the battlefield, once both the armies are confronting each other, the defending army should be restricted to finding and killing only the so called most important of the enemy army can be had only when the most stupid of the generals is heading the defending army. Such instructions are never issued in the battlefield to place one's own army and soldiers in a confused state of mind risking their lives. Decisions in war are on the spur of the moment, kill or get killed.
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This perception that the operative strategy in the battlefield, once both the armies are confronting each other, the defending army should be restricted to finding and killing only the so called most important of the enemy army can be had only when the most stupid of the generals is heading the defending army. Such instructions are never issued in the battlefield to place one's own army and soldiers in a confused state of mind risking their lives. Decisions in war are on the spur of the moment, kill or get killed.
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Why not just drb ala3naaq? No difference between 3unq and raqaba? -
Sister,
Thanks, You have clarified the point by this quote that Riqabe does not exclusively refer to "leading soldoers" type of thing.
I do not care about what soldiers, leading or leaders. The point is the advise or command is not to cut necks but to attack important soldiers of the army.
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I do not care about what soldiers, leading or leaders. The point is the advise or command is not to cut necks but to attack important soldiers of the army.
Sorry Sister,
Again both sentences are self contradictory. Leading stands substituted by "important". The only different perception which I can now draw from the last sentence is that the scene is not to kill the enemy on mass scale but selectively kill.
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Sorry Sister,
Again both sentences are self contradictory. Leading stands substituted by "important". The only different perception which I can now draw from the last sentence is that the scene is not to kill the enemy on mass scale but selectively kill.
Yes. In war you choose whom to kill or disable in order to cut short your losses.
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peace/salaam all,
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