Did Muhammad have a copy of the Qur'an ?
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Shalom,
I was wondering about muhammad's copy of Qur'an. It never made sense. I was looking at these letters sent by Muhammad to the surrounding empires. I remember reading or watching somewhere , that he sent around 300 letters. My question is, considering the larger than poster size of the letters. Why did he not care to write the Qur'an down ???? I dont believe he never had any resources.
Please feel free to join the discussion.
PEACE
--------------- Student of Allah -
Shalom,
I was wondering about muhammad's copy of Qur'an. It never made sense. I was looking at these letters sent by Muhammad to the surrounding empires. I remember reading or watching somewhere , that he sent around 300 letters. My question is, considering the larger than poster size of the letters. Why did he not care to write the Qur'an down ???? I dont believe he never had any resources.
Please feel free to join the discussion.
PEACE
--------------- Student of AllahALL these letters are fake.
It seems that those traditionalists forgot that he did not write and that the qur'aan was written on bones and hides! They should at least apologize for these lies.
And Muhammad did write down the qur'aan. -
Salam,
thanks for your thoughts. Ok... lets say that all are fabricated letters. So... where is the copy of Muhammad ? People who are so obsessed with Muhammad's hair are the same ones saying that the Qur'an's manuscripts that Muhammad had were burnt ??? It kinda makes me wonder. Did anyone ever bother atleast ??? or all settled with the theory that we dont have originals ? What about the copy of Uthman ? The copy that we have is pretty old BUT...... it is organised. Which tells me, there should be more copies which are not as organised as the earliest one we have(referring to Uthmans).
From a historical point of view, was Muhammad successful ? What I mean is.... why didn't he have any writing materials ?????? Things dont add up. There you have Muhammad taking over arabia, but on the other hand, he didnt have access to a scribe that could make a decent copy.
PEACE
---------------Student of Allah -
Salaam SoA and all,
Please allow me to add my thoughts to your discussion.
I always have strange feeling about Prophet Mohammed writing this Book or it was not written in his life period. Because I don't find any aayat mentioning that AlQuraan was given to Mohammed nor I find any aayat saying that AlTauraat was given to Musa.
I think, it was given to either Mohammed or someone before Him it was not mentioned because it is not important for us. Otherwise people may say that if Mohammed would have not come, AlQuraan would have not come too.
Please note
7144
7144 He said "O Moses, I have chosen you over the people with My message and My words; so take hold what I have given you and be of the thankful."7145
7145 And We wrote for him on the tablets from all things a lesson, and detailing all things. Take hold of it with strength and order your people to take the best from it. I will show you the abode of the wicked.Something was given in WRITING from Allah to Musa long before Mohammed. So, why AlQuraan was not given in writing to Mohammed? Was there any problem of at his time?
I believe that these are all fake stories that AlQuraan came by wahi, it was not having dots, it was not having 'earaab, etc. etc. just to create confusion in peoples mind and keep people away from AlQuraan.
May Allah protect us all and increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam mmkhan
You do not know what was given to Musa in writing? The size of three verses The Straight Path, aka "alkitaab" or the Ten Commandments.
The qur'aan tells us how it was delivered to Muhammad. It was sort of "downloaded" in the heart of the messenger by Gabriel. That's why God alienates his messenger from being a poet, and tells us that it was revelation.
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My Dear Mohammad M.Khan and others,AOA
You wrote in your mail that there was no quran without dots and ----Earabs----May be there are more like you who think so.I think you did not study the matter at all before writing on this forum.Just go to site of ---Islamic Awareness---on internet and see scores of camera pictures, I means photos of older qurans and other arabic writing and engravings that have no dots and ----earabs----both arabic writings of islamic era and preislamic era.If you dont find any write back to me for help. brickwall brickwall brickwall -
My Dear Mohammad M.Khan and others,AOA
You wrote in your mail that there was no quran without dots and ----Earabs----May be there are more like you who think so.I think you did not study the matter at all before writing on this forum.Just go to site of ---Islamic Awareness---on internet and see scores of camera pictures, I means photos of older qurans and other arabic writing and engravings that have no dots and ----earabs----both arabic writings of islamic era and preislamic era.If you dont find any write back to me for help. brickwall brickwall brickwallWa Alaikum Salaam marifhaq,
Did you understand what I wrote above? I don't think so. I was saying, if Musa was given something i.e., alKitaab in writing, then why not Muhammad was given in writing where Muhammad came after Musa... That was the point I was making. Photographs and all are not important for me to judge with Book of Allah. There are clear evidences in itself to see.
Hope you get what I am wanted to say in my above post.
May Allah guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
Wa Alaikum Salaam marifhaq,
Did you understand what I wrote above? I don't think so. I was saying, if Musa was given something i.e., alKitaab in writing, then why not Muhammad was given in writing where Muhammad came after Musa... That was the point I was making. Photographs and all are not important for me to judge with Book of Allah. There are clear evidences in itself to see.
Hope you get what I am wanted to say in my above post.
May Allah guide us to His only path pr
mmKhanSalam MMkhan,
I like to add some &
Salaam mmkhan
You do not know what was given to Musa in writing? The size of three verses The Straight Path, aka "alkitaab" or the Ten Commandments.
The qur'aan tells us how it was delivered to Muhammad. It was sort of "downloaded" in the heart of the messenger by Gabriel. That's why God alienates his messenger from being a poet, and tells us that it was revelation.
Samia is right, The Quran was downloaded as a whole Book in the bless night of the bless month of Ramadhan . Th Quran was already written when it was given to the Prophet - .
Jibril came down to the Prophet twice , First time - inspired what is to be inspire - Second time - downloaded to the fullest .
peace
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Salam MMkhan,
I like to add some &
Samia is right, The Quran was downloaded as a whole Book in the bless night of the bless month of Ramadhan . Th Quran was already written when it was given to the Prophet - .
Jibril came down to the Prophet twice , First time - inspired what is to be inspire - Second time - downloaded to the fullest .
peace
Salaam Hizbullah,
I never see the word "Muhammad" in any of the aayaats quoted above. Is it difficult for Allah to say Muhammad when He has already used many names in alQuraan?
Is this your understanding or you are saying lie on Allah? Please be careful bro.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan peace -
Salaam Hizbullah,
I never see the word "Muhammad" in any of the aayaats quoted above. Is it difficult for Allah to say Muhammad when He has already used many names in alQuraan?
Is this your understanding or you are saying lie on Allah? Please be careful bro.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan peaceSalaam MMKhan
I do not dare to say lie about ALLAH and I am very careful, INSAH ALLAH.
Since the Quran was SENT DOWN to The Last Prophet of ALLAH - which HE called Muhammad , , there is no doubt!
I believe the verses I quote is unambiguous.
peace
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Salam
seems that this will be a test. The Quran was a revelation in verbal form, as recitation. Not because there was no other way but to show the ancient Arabs, since they were masters in the art of poetry and so they could see clearly that this recitation was beyond her own modest possibilities ...
the Quran itself certifies, that it was written down by noble scribes.. for me those noble scribes was not humans but angels.
but when it was written down? this i don't know...and the name of the prophet? Muhammad? or an other name? it is important? if his name wasen't Muhammad then in fact he was the praised one..
Salam -
Salam
seems that this will be a test. The Quran was a revelation in verbal form, as recitation. Not because there was no other way but to show the ancient Arabs, since they were masters in the art of poetry and so they could see clearly that this recitation was beyond her own modest possibilities ...
the Quran itself certifies, that it was written down by noble scribes.. for me those noble scribes was not humans but angels.
but when it was written down? this i don't know...and the name of the prophet? Muhammad? or an other name? it is important? if his name wasen't Muhammad then in fact he was the praised one..
SalamSalaam mirjamnur,
Now its my turn to ask you some questions but it is from your own post above.
The Quran was a revelation in verbal form, as recitation. - evidence please?
Not because there was no other way but to show the ancient Arabs, since they were masters in the art of poetry and so they could see clearly that this recitation was beyond her own modest possibilities ... - evidence please?
the Quran itself certifies, that it was written down by noble scribes.. - evidence please?
if his name wasen't Muhammad then in fact he was the praised one.. - Whom you are referring to with "his" and "he" in this sentence?
Salaam,
mmKhan -
Salam
seems that this will be a test. The Quran was a revelation in verbal form, as recitation. Not because there was no other way but to show the ancient Arabs, since they were masters in the art of poetry and so they could see clearly that this recitation was beyond her own modest possibilities ...
the Quran itself certifies, that it was written down by noble scribes.. for me those noble scribes was not humans but angels.
but when it was written down? this i don't know...and the name of the prophet? Muhammad? or an other name? it is important? if his name wasen't Muhammad then in fact he was the praised one..
Salam?What is in a name?
- 40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Why should be anybody mentionned in the Qur'an be called the Seal of the Prophets. Has anybody else ever in the Qur'an been called that?
If anybody is khatam an-nabiyin, would stand it to reason that his message would have something to do with it. Or would he be khatam for any other reason?
So, it seems that some people would have wanted that person to be father of men, and God says he is His messenger and seal of the prophets.
So amongst past prophets before the Qur'an, who would have been khatam an-nabiyin? Is the Qur'an the message with which all the others should be measured?
Muhammad is an appropriate name or denomination for the seal of prophets. Yes any prophet is praised any prohet is a actualization of divine rahma, as everything that exists is an actualization of divine rahma. Praised is the conscious return to our source and Prophets are reminders, transmitters of that consciousness, Praised? Yes. And the seal of them makes sense that he should adopt such name, since rasul, is something sent by God, from God, as we are all rusul, and all (which obviously is a lot) we have to do is claim our nature, and return to God, rennouncing any mirages, being absolutely conscious of our envoyness.
Yes, Muhammad, seal of prophets, denomination of him and of all of them, because they are one.
Salaam
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Salam all
Salaam mirjamnur,
Now its my turn to ask you some questions but it is from your own post above.
The Quran was a revelation in verbal form, as recitation. - evidence please?
= Qaf-Ra-Alif = to recite/read, compilation, collection, reading, recitation, explanation, study, investigation.
qara'a vb. (I) perf. act. 1698, 1745, 26199, 7518
yaqra'u - impf. act. 1094, 1771, 1793, 17106
iqra - impv. 1714, 6919, 7320, 7320, 961, 963
quri'a - perf. pass. 7204, 8421
qur'an - n.m. 2185, 482, 5101, 619, 7204, 9111, 1015, 1037, 1061, 122, 123, 1231, 151, 1587, 1591, 1698, 179, 1741, 1745, 1746, 1760, 1778, 1778, 1782, 1788, 1789, 17106, 1854, 202, 20113, 20114, 2530, 2532, 271, 276, 2776, 2792, 2885, 3058, 3431, 362, 3669, 381, 3927, 3928, 413, 4126, 4144, 427, 433, 4331, 4629, 4724, 501, 5045, 5417, 5422, 5432, 5440, 552, 5677, 5921, 721, 734, 7320, 7517, 7518, 7623, 8421, 8521
quru n.m. - 2228
aqra'a vb. (IV) - 876 (to cause to read/recite)
LL, V7, p 30, 31, 32 suggesting that the word Quran itself seems to point of the Rezitation- oral transmittion
Not because there was no other way but to show the ancient Arabs, since they were masters in the art of poetry and so they could see clearly that this recitation was beyond her own modest possibilities ... - evidence please?
025.005 ?And they say The stories of the ancients - he has got them written - so these are read out to him morning and evening?
the people to whom the book was sent often compared the recitation with sihr = indicates that they were impressed ..(sorry i don't found the verse)
and secondary sources giveup .the Quran itself certifies, that it was written down by noble scribes.. - evidence please?
080.013-16
"(It is) in sheets / pages held (greatly) in honour (Arabic fi suhufin mukarrama), Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy (Arabic marfu'atin mutahhara), (Written) by the hands of scribes. (Arabic bi'aydi safara), honourable and pious and just (Arabic kiramin barara)"Other Quranic references also strengthen this position
068.001 Nun. By the Pen and the (Record) which (men) write,-
096.001-5 ?Read in the name of your Lord Who created. He created man from a clot. Read and your Lord is Most Honourable, Who taught (to write) with the pen. Taught man what he knew not?
098.002-3 ?A messenger from God, reciting purified pages. Wherein are laws (or decrees) right and straight?
025.005 ?And they say The stories of the ancients - he has got them written - so these are read out to him morning and evening?
if his name wasen't Muhammad then in fact he was the praised one.. - Whom you are referring to with "his" and "he" in this sentence?
7.157Those who follow the Messenger, the gentil prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.
Salaam,
mmKhanSalam
?What is in a name?
- 40 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Why should be anybody mentionned in the Qur'an be called the Seal of the Prophets. Has anybody else ever in the Qur'an been called that?
If anybody is khatam an-nabiyin, would stand it to reason that his message would have something to do with it. Or would he be khatam for any other reason?
So, it seems that some people would have wanted that person to be father of men, and God says he is His messenger and seal of the prophets.
So amongst past prophets before the Qur'an, who would have been khatam an-nabiyin? Is the Qur'an the message with which all the others should be measured?
Muhammad is an appropriate name or denomination for the seal of prophets. Yes any prophet is praised any prohet is a actualization of divine rahma, as everything that exists is an actualization of divine rahma. Praised is the conscious return to our source and Prophets are reminders, transmitters of that consciousness, Praised? Yes. And the seal of them makes sense that he should adopt such name, since rasul, is something sent by God, from God, as we are all rusul, and all (which obviously is a lot) we have to do is claim our nature, and return to God, rennouncing any mirages, being absolutely conscious of our envoyness.
Yes, Muhammad, seal of prophets, denomination of him and of all of them, because they are one.
wow just for clarification maybe in german??? that i can be sure, that i understand every word, because it is an important matter. Thank you very muchSalaam
Salams my brothers
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Dear all,Salam
I think Mohammad was given a copy of quran by Jirael,the angel.I think so because of an achiological proof that I have seen.This piece of evidence is cast in metal,and some rich man is holding it in his personal collection.If you like to see a camera picture of this item then I can post you,which I took with my mobile phone camera and is saved in my pictures where there are more than 700 pictures,but I dont know how to sort them to reach this picture,or I will have to see and read almost all the picture,actually this is a file,but I forgot the name of this file,any way it is also on internet,google opened it for me but again I could not recall the name of the site.If you do want to this picture then I may try to find it out? rotfl
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Dear all,Salam
Though I dont believe in most hadith for guidance,and islamic laws,rules,ways etc.but some hadith do provide some interesting and useful information about history of the times.So one hadith says,the original copy of quran was with one of the wives of prophet in a big trunk or say box.but this copy was destroyed by caliph Marwan,copies that were made later were destroyed by Hijjaj,and some original quranic material was destroyed by 3rd caliph Usman.and unfortunately all initial copies were destroyed by setting them on fire,so no remains are avail;able.
another hadith says that when the two caliphs ordered Ayed to write the quran ,he replied how can he? Prophet ordered us not to write it down,so the caliph after confirming Zyed s words,next day said,well though Prophet ordered not to write it down, but I have received an incation that writing it down will be better for ummah,and hence he ordered Zyed and others to write it down.
Now just think why did Prophet ordered not to write down quran? Because it was customery in those days to burn the holy book if any of the enemy,Prophet could foresee that my enemies will burn it,so instead of writing he ordered to memorize the quran.But memorizing is prone to faults,human mind just cannot memorize a text like a CD or ahed disc without missing a single bit.
If you thing I have not clarified some thing here then you may write back to me.I am at service with pleasure. brickwall hail -
Peace marifhaq.
Quote .If you like to see a camera picture of this item then I can post you,which I took with my mobile phone camera and is saved in my pictures
This camera picture of the item, was is taken at the time of Muhammed also?
Actually when I am reading your posts they remind me of the time of " Jahiliah", they do not make sense.
Can I ask why you keep " hitting the wall" at the end of your posts?
Keep doing that. with luck your next post may start to make sense.
Peace.
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My Dear Truth Seeker,Salam
Some writers who supprt quran aloners,say they dont believe in hadith due to various reasons,I too support them.They say that instead of hadith they will prefer some solid archaeological proof.Like some engraving on rocks,or stone statues,or paintings etc.I also support this and I also support carbon-14 dating for ancient objects.Islam is just 1400 years old,but look at Egyptians ,phaeros they are about 4500 years old,but due to archaeological proofs we know every thing about them,I mean their names,their way of religion,their prayers,their cattles,their cloth,food stuff they ate,etc.etc. all in colour,we know how the face of their queen cleaopatra was,her ornaments etc.
now similarly we dont have much evidence of islam ealist period,as arabs in that area were not as advanced as Egypians were long ago.But with the help of google I found after going through hundreds of sites looking for old islamic objects,we do have some object which might help us understand early islam and quran.At one such site,I found that an early Islamic dinar was sold for US Dollar 7 millions,now it is not just a piece of 15 gram gold,but has some early informations too for which the high cost.And it was not purchased by some rich Saudi prince who might not know what C-14 dating is for this coin,it was purchased by another auction company,who will later sale it at still higher prize.I dont understand why are you condemning the picture of thiss coin which is with me in high resolution,but I will not post it in this forum untill and unless you authorise me to do so.You are like a wise islamic scholar to me,and I want to win your support and not opposition as evident from your last post,I still dont understand why do you keep me away from posting this picture which will help quran aloners,and not just one picture I have many of them on my hard disc and CD under the title "ISLAMIC PICTURES".I regret for my last post which you found offensive. rotfl hail