A Perspective on Salah
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Salaam uq,
I really enjoyed your article on salah. I think you've done some great research here and I'm glad to say that I'm in agreement with you on most of your interpretations.
I also think that salah is mainly about remembrance. Remembrance through asking for forgiveness, mercy, direction, and through praise and the study of the Quran.
I also think that tasbih is an important part of the salah. I'm also on the fence about tasbih, but I think that the way it is mentioned is thematically connected to salah, and I don't think it is a coincidence that tasbih has always been a part of salah as we know it today. I believe despite being a part of salah, it can be done outside of salah as well.
I also think that salah involves standing and facing masjid al-haram in Makkah.
I also think that salah involves the physical acts of prostration, bowing, and standing, in no particular order or frequency. However I do believe salah should be ended at prostration.
I also believe that salah is mainly a matter of the heart.
However, I believe that there are either 3 or 5 timings for salah during the day. I've undertaken my own studies and posted them here, but they are old and in need of updating.
Anyway good job. Keep at it, and please keep posting your thoughts/research!
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Salaam ths!
It pleases me that you enjoyed the article.
I am also quite intrigued that we are in agreement concerning most aspects of salah.
The problem of tasbeeh is one which I also faced during my studies. I resolved the problem by the following 2 arguments
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A temporal locus must be given in relation to the command "aqim al-salah", thus, if the Designer of Nebulae mentions a time of day or night (e.g. al-aseel, al-bukrah, aanaa' al-layl) without issuing the command "aqim al-salah", then that time quite simply, in my opinion, does not refer to salah.
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Tasbeeh is clearly something which we are instructed to do at many points during the day and night, some of which coincide with the times of salah, this tasbeeh is also to be done within salah itself, as well as outside salah.
I also end salah with a prostration, if nothing but as a mark of respect and reverence.
On another note, I know I bang on about this all the time, but I'll mention it again regardless. Free-minds.org is a massive blessing from God, it brings the believers together from all 4 corners of the earth who otherwise would probably not have known about each other. Free-minds.org also serves as a platform for the testing of ideas and for the refinement or rejection thereof.
I am truly grateful to God for this technological blessing.
Usamah
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Furthermore, I would not necessarily restrict tasbeeh to the mere utterance of words, but I would also include in its scope one's actual cognizance of the magnificence and of the irreproducible uniqueness of God, the Definer of Time, the Proportioner of Space, the Giver of Existence, the Qualifier of Matter, the Quantifier of Energy, the Designer of Nebulae...
http//www.google.com/search?q=nebulae&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=wW7&rls=org.mozillaen-USofficial&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=zQBXTqi5Ece2hQfHiPSaDA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBQQ_AUoAQ&biw=1032&bih=599
"wa-in min shay'in illaa yusabbihu bi-hamdih"
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I would like to add that the temporal loci of salaah have been defined in the Quran by the measure of the sun's proximity to the horizon and by the measure of the amount of light in the sky, that is "li dulooki 'sh-shamsi ilaa ghasaqi 'l-layl". This applies to salaatu 'l-3ishaa', and, based on my studies, I believe the same would apply to salaatu 'l-fajr.
However, there are 2 factors affecting the calculation of the times of salaah
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A "breathing" twilight (al-sajsaj in Arabic ). This is caused by the seasons and the earth's position relative to the sun throughout the year. Thus, the twilight "expands" and "contracts" in terms of its duration, hence my use of "breathing".
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Solar angular ascent and descent. This too is caused by the earth's position relative to the sun throughout the year. Thus, the rising and setting of the sun, relative to a fixed point in the sky, takes less time in summer due to a near-obtuse angular ascent and descent. The opposite is true in winter.
Therefore, in light of the above, one can only use the times of the sun's rising and setting as approximate values for the determination of the times of salah, because the 2 above-mentioned factors would invariably affect the times of salaah to a notable degree.
Thus, one would be in a better position to use solar altitude and depression as markers of the start and end of salaah. For no matter what the position of the earth is relative to the sun, solar altitude and depression will mark the same astronomical states, invariably.
I use the following values solar altitude at 5o; solar depression at 10o.
These data can be found at Her Majesty's Nautical Almanac Office, the data are computable according to your geographical co-ordinates of latitude and longitude.
Simply follow the instructions on screen http//astro.ukho.gov.uk/surfbin/placefinder.cgi?program=Rise_Set&ticket=86dc57024e8f31f3.
I have recently begun to use the sun's altitude and depression as markers for the start and end of salaah.
This is my latest.
Peace!
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Thank you uq for these excellent and serious posts, and I thank all the contributors that you've inspired to answer with all their links too, which I read with much appreciation.
I myself struggle with the understanding of the salat, as evidenced in my posts, and topics I started.
It is two or three weeks now that I stopped performing the "choreographed" ritual prayer, replacing it with mental bond and remembrance to God, but I feel that I'm missing something...I also liked your words HERE
On another note, I know I bang on about this all the time, but I'll mention it again regardless. Free-minds.org is a massive blessing from God, it brings the believers together from all 4 corners of the earth who otherwise would probably not have known about each other. Free-minds.org also serves as a platform for the testing of ideas and for the refinement or rejection thereof.
I am truly grateful to God for this technological blessing.
UsamahAnd I subscribe to that, too!
Thank you all for your kind and amazingly illuminating contributions, I am surprised how much do people know and study! -
Thank you uq
Tell us more about your geometrical observations please!
but I would also include in its scope one's actual cognizance of the magnificence and of the irreproducible uniqueness of God, the Definer of Time, the Proportioner of Space, the Giver of Existence, the Qualifier of Matter, the Quantifier of Energy, the Designer of Nebulae...
Expound!!! In the proportion is the song of the birds...
Pay attention to proportion, it is the only constant!
Peace
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@ GODsubmitter,
Thank you for your input. Please do share your ideas, and keep us updated.
@ OPF,
Thank you. By listing those attributes, I intended to justify my tasbee7/glorification of God, that is to say, God is well-worthy of glorification. Such is tasbee7.
Peace.
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Peace everyone!
Thanks uq for the extensive article! it's really well informative & well composed
I would like to note that "ila" in 1778-79 mean cam mean"until".as in 218746)
"Until the night"
~ May His Supreme Majesty guide us to the correct path ~ -
Salaam Uq,
I think you'd be interested in this.
I've come to disagree with the traditional interpretation of 1778, and figured you would be interested given your previous ambivalence regarding the number of prayers in the Quran.
I started a new topic to encourage discussion about it. It is here
Please let me know your thoughts,
Salaam
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Peace!
A further modulation follows.
I no longer use solar depression as a marker.
It would be more proper to use a marker, in substitution for solar depression, that is determined by the amount of natural light in the sky. After all, atmospheric light is, as regards 9alh, Quranically delimited.
I have therefore revised the designation of the periods of 9alh as occurring between Civil Twilight and 3'30" degrees solar altitude.
I have computed the annual times of 9alh and produced a spread sheet to this effect (in XLSX and XLS formats).
The file is available on my SkyDrive http//sdrv.ms/P0IPJk
A graph has also been plotted to demonstrate the annual fluctuation of the times and, more importantly, of the duration of 9alh; all in the same folder above.
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peace uq,
Thanks for sharing your analysis. I do not agree with all of it, however it was more cogent than other salat articles that I have read.
I found your point 19.4 interesting/novel, albeit I do not agree with it. I think the primary weaknesses of the article were establishing "salat" means "prayer", analysis of the "qiblah" verses, 4102 and SaBiH verses.
I know you are aware of these articles already but in case anyone wants to read my analysis of the issues I raised above
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html (analysis of qiblah verses)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html (4102)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html -
Peace Wakas,
Thanks for taking the time to read the paper.
It's interesting to read my first post after seven and a half years and see how my views have mutated over time with more study.
I think it was prudent of me to state back in 2008 in post #4 "My studies are on-going."
And congrats on hitting the 10,000 posts mark! You're officially an old-timer! D
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peace uq,
Thanks for sharing your analysis. I do not agree with all of it, however it was more cogent than other salat articles that I have read.
I found your point 19.4 interesting/novel, albeit I do not agree with it. I think the primary weaknesses of the article were establishing "salat" means "prayer", analysis of the "qiblah" verses, 4102 and SaBiH verses.
I know you are aware of these articles already but in case anyone wants to read my analysis of the issues I raised above
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html (analysis of qiblah verses)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html (4102)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.htmlI think we don't need all these explanations because the Salah and the numbers of rakaats are well mentioned in the Hadith corpus. See here http//kalamullah.com/Books/The%20Salah%20of%20a%20Believer.pdf
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peace uq,
Thanks for sharing your analysis. I do not agree with all of it, however it was more cogent than other salat articles that I have read.
I found your point 19.4 interesting/novel, albeit I do not agree with it. I think the primary weaknesses of the article were establishing "salat" means "prayer", analysis of the "qiblah" verses, 4102 and SaBiH verses.
I know you are aware of these articles already but in case anyone wants to read my analysis of the issues I raised above
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html (analysis of qiblah verses)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html (4102)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.htmlPeace Wakas,
Thanks for taking the time to read the paper.
It's interesting to read my first post after seven and a half years and see how my views have mutated over time with more study.
I think it was prudent of me to state back in 2008 in post #4 "My studies are on-going."
And congrats on hitting the 10,000 posts mark! You're officially an old-timer! D
I got this doubt in today's Isha salah while i was reciting
If i assume you both,Wakas and Uq are correct then as per this ayah ALLAH subhanavatala has not guided any of the Muslims who recited this ayah, minimum 17 times a day for the past 1400 years if not at least 1200 years !!!!and of course he is not guiding millions of Muslims even today and very handful of Muslim like you are rightly guided that too after 1200 years !
Is that true !
But ALLAH subhnavatala is the one who hears dua
do you have any answer for this question -
Salam Pervez,
In terms of the form of alh, it is certain that the Muslims have been practicing the five-daily prayers in its current form since circa 900-1000 C.E., we know this by way of the compilations of the adth corpora and other various jurisprudential texts. As for its form prior to this time, I have found no historical primary evidence demonstrating the existence of the five-daily prayers.
But this, dear brother, is completely beside the point. Let us not forget that making an argument based on the number of people who believe in a certain belief is a logical fallacy. The fancy term for this is "argumentum ad numerum," which is Latin for "appeal to the number." There is an estimated two billion Christians in the world who believe that Jesus is the son of God ( ), this is no way means that they are right in this belief. In a similar vein, the great number of Muslims who practice alh in its current form, in no way proves that it is the method of alh intended by God for the believers.
I would strongly recommend for you to study the Quran for yourself. There is a plethora of online sources that can help you to study the Quran, including translations, dictionaries, and reference grammars.
Here is my own perspective on alh https//1drv.ms/b/s!AkotlTY_voT4qgAIL7pqLK3Yaof0
If you seek the truth, God will help you find it.
Remember God's promise And God increases them who seek guidance with guidance. 1976
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Salam Pervez,
In terms of the form of alh, it is certain that the Muslims have been practicing the five-daily prayers in its current form since circa 900-1000 C.E., we know this by way of the compilations of the adth corpora and other various jurisprudential texts. As for its form prior to this time, I have found no historical primary evidence demonstrating the existence of the five-daily prayers.
Walaikumsalam Rahamatullahi Wabarakathahu,Uq
So this is your answer for my question
You mean to ALLAH subhanavatala has misguided all Muslims after 900-1000 C.E
and the verse 01.06 had no effect upon MuslimBut this, dear brother, is completely beside the point. Let us not forget that making an argument based on the number of people who believe in a certain belief is a logical fallacy. The fancy term for this is "argumentum ad numerum," which is Latin for "appeal to the number."
Logical fallacy !,you mean to say i have to judge the divine things with man made philosophy .BTW , as per logical fallacy , everything which is old ,cannot be incorrect Fallacy Appeal to Novelty
what is this Uq,Your philosophy sometimes says old things are better and it denies them on few occasion .Do i have to follow the traditions or not .i think your logical fallacy itself is the best example for wrong reasoning
since we are talking about Quran ,pl give the proof from Quran not from made made philosophyThere is an estimated two billion Christians in the world who believe that Jesus is the son of God ( ), this is no way means that they are right in this belief. In a similar vein, the great number of Muslims who practice alh in its current form, in no way proves that it is the method of alh intended by God for the believers.
Quran has guided Christians but they prefer to choose the wrong path but Quran claims to guide Muslim and as per you ALLAH subhanavatala has misguided Muslims as well .As per you ,trillions of Muslim who cried for the true guidance were turn down and ALLAH subhanavtala has made them wander blindly as he did with Christians
I would strongly recommend for you to study the Quran for yourself. There is a plethora of online sources that can help you to study the Quran, including translations, dictionaries, and reference grammars.
Here is my own perspective on alh https//onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=F884BE3F36952D4A!5372&authkey=!AD4SYZrfp8931LA&ithint=file%2cpdf
If you seek the truth, God will help you find it.
Remember God's promise And God increases them who seek guidance with guidance. 1976
Sorry to say Uq,first make me one thing very clear
did ALLAH subhanvatal has guided us or he mislead us even after we supplicated him to guide us to right path, at least 17 times a day
Till than i feel Mazhar bhai's view are correct in this link about salah
Do you have any answer for this verses i mentioned in this thread
First give me a satisfactory answer for these question then we can talk about your paper
if you cannot answer these verses then what is the use of talking about something which is a misconception -
Is the number of salaat prayers 5 or 3
look here ---> http//www.realquran.net/quran-articles/6-religious-questions/2-is-the-number-of-salaat-prayers-5-or-3
