Dr. Subhi Mansour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran
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Hehe your criminal ideas are just laughable. You are arguing that god allows you to make people your property, force them to work for you and other kinds of human traficking when even UN forbids it. let me remind you, making people your property is a crime according to international law, there are large jails builds up for these criminals like you.
Secondly you show me a translation with the word 'servant' and argue that servant means slave. First of all 'ebad' means human. 3bd means slave.
Yes quran does not say 'don't take slaves' just like quran does not say that i cannot rape you or force anyone to marry me. The truth is, that all these things come inside 'opression' which is worse than murder.
But if you insists that people should have other lords than god, which is idolworship, can i than buy you? I really want to have you as my slave lol.
Looking at the Islamic sects, they legalized slavery because of one reason and one reason only and that is MMA. So we can see the wisdom here. Maybe its the Koran's way to test the future generations after Muhammad and what spin they will do. But from the discussion we had so far regarding MMA, their theory hangs on a thread. Most often they had to place words in the Koran to make the verses fit. Its somewhat surprising that even some Koranist fell for the trap. I think it could be because they got influenced by the hadiths.
Not much oxygen there for the Islam bashers. In fact I think there is more oxygen for those who opposse polygamy. At least that is somewhat the Koran did recognize. But other than that they have no real oxygen. So the Islam bashers would try their best to delegitimize us since the Koran gives them no oxygen. They would rather deal with the sects where they have plenty of oxygen to breathe from.
This is something we will have to face from now. A delegitimization campaign where our Islam will be labelled "unauthentic".
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Secondly you show me a translation with the word 'servant' and argue that servant means slave. First of all 'ebad' means human. 3bd means slave.
Yes quran does not say 'don't take slaves' .........
'Ebad' and 'Ebd' share same Arabic root which is ayn b dl. As far as I know, only you translated 'Ebad' as 'human' while rest of the translators translated the 'ebad' or 'ebd' as 'servant' or 'slave' including the Quran translation available in Free-Minds site.
http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=slave
While the Arabic root for 'human' is b shn r.
http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=human
Checked with Free-Minds' Quran translation for verse 3910 and 3953, the word 'ebad' being translated as 'servant'.
3910 Say O My servants who believed, be aware of your Lord. For those who worked righteousness in this world will be a good reward, and the earth of God is spacious. Those who steadfastly persevere will receive their recompense fully, without reckoning.
3953 Say O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of God. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.
Below are more Quran translations copied from Free-Minds' site which having Arabic root ayn b dl.
1675 God puts forth the example of a slave who is owned and cannot achieve anything, against one whom We have provided a good provision which he spends of it secretly and openly. Are they the same? Praise be to God, but most of them do not know.
2347 So they said "Shall we believe to two human beings like us, while their people are servants to us?"
Better still, the word 'human' is also spelled in verse 2347 which using Arabic root b shn r.
Please share with us how did you came to conclusion that 'ebad' carry the meaning of 'human'?
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'Ebad' and 'Ebd' share same Arabic root which is ayn b dl. As far as I know, only you translated 'Ebad' as 'human' while rest of the translators translated the 'ebad' or 'ebd' as 'servant' or 'slave' including the Quran translation available in Free-Minds site.
http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=slave
While the Arabic root for 'human' is b shn r.
http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=human
Checked with Free-Minds' Quran translation for verse 3910 and 3953, the word 'ebad' being translated as 'servant'.
3910 Say O My servants who believed, be aware of your Lord. For those who worked righteousness in this world will be a good reward, and the earth of God is spacious. Those who steadfastly persevere will receive their recompense fully, without reckoning.
3953 Say O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of God. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.
Below are more Quran translations copied from Free-Minds' site which having Arabic root ayn b dl.
1675 God puts forth the example of a slave who is owned and cannot achieve anything, against one whom We have provided a good provision which he spends of it secretly and openly. Are they the same? Praise be to God, but most of them do not know.
2347 So they said "Shall we believe to two human beings like us, while their people are servants to us?"
Better still, the word 'human' is also spelled in verse 2347 which using Arabic root b shn r.
Please share with us how did you came to conclusion that 'ebad' carry the meaning of 'human'?
Ya 3Ibaadi = Oh my people.
''Oh my people, who believed, be aware of your lord'' is the correct translation, and the logical one, since the verse would contradict itself if it was ment to slave, since 'be aware of your lord' would mean that the slave should be aware of his master and not God.
Ibaadi is a different word and hence not the same as a3beed which is commenly known as slave, althought it does not even mean slave in its orginally meaning. The root you are talking about means 'worship', . So are you trying to say that I can buy you as my personal worshipper (slave?).
rotflNow are you arguing about what the different translators, each different from one another says? What is your point with that? NO translation is quran, and hence what the different translaters says has NO value.
Secondly, since you lack basic knowledge, let me remind you that SERVANT and SLAVE is NOT the same thing. You really have troubles with distinguish between words and meanings. You fail to distinguish between a3beed and i3baad so no wounder that you dont know the difference between servant and slave.
Now lets get back to the main question. I really want to buy you as my slave. How much is your price?
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Ya 3Ibaadi = Oh my people.
''Oh my people, who believed, be aware of your lord'' is the correct translation, and the logical one, since the verse would contradict itself if it was ment to slave, since 'be aware of your lord' would mean that the slave should be aware of his master and not God.
If what you are saying is true and valid, I'm sure at least the Quran translation in this Free-Minds site will be updated soon. Just wait and see.
Secondly, since you lack basic knowledge, let me remind you that SERVANT and SLAVE is NOT the same thing. You really have troubles with distinguish between words and meanings. You fail to distinguish between a3beed and i3baad so no wounder that you dont know the difference between servant and slave.
I think I'm not alone in 'mis-understanding' the Arabic root 'ayn b dl' or 'a3beed' or 'i3abaad'. Most of the world renowned translators had same problem as I am. I'm not sure whether they will agree with you but if they believe in Quran's rule, minorities are the guided one surely they will reconsider.
Are you able to share with me your translation? I'm not an Arabic spoken person and need to rely on translations to understand the meaning of verses in Quran.
Now lets get back to the main question. I really want to buy you as my slave. How much is your price?
Since Quran do not put 'haram' or declare war against slavery as it did on usury, refer below verses
2278 O you who believe, be aware of God and give up what is left from usury, if you are truly believers.
2279 And if you will not do this, then be informed of a war from God and His messenger; but if you repent, then you will have back your principal money, you will not be wronged nor will you wrong.,then it is not a sin for you, a Quran believers, to have slaves or rob other people freedom. Unfortunately, I'm a free man right now and you need to capture me first to make me your slave. 'Catch' me if you can.
P/s I think Quran's author, a human being, having problem to set priorities. The law for usury, adultery, theft, murder (many more social issues) and where-to-eat issues considerably clear but for the main human issue, which is slavery, there are loopholes here and there which make Quran vulnerable to arguments. Sacred and Forbidden Months issues also has few loopholes.
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If what you are saying is true and valid, I'm sure at least the Quran translation in this Free-Minds site will be updated soon. Just wait and see.
I think I'm not alone in 'mis-understanding' the Arabic root 'ayn b dl' or 'a3beed' or 'i3abaad'. Most of the world renowned translators had same problem as I am. I'm not sure whether they will agree with you but if they believe in Quran's rule, minorities are the guided one surely they will reconsider.
Are you able to share with me your translation? I'm not an Arabic spoken person and need to rely on translations to understand the meaning of verses in Quran.
Since Quran do not put 'haram' or declare war against slavery as it did on usury, refer below verses
2278 O you who believe, be aware of God and give up what is left from usury, if you are truly believers.
2279 And if you will not do this, then be informed of a war from God and His messenger; but if you repent, then you will have back your principal money, you will not be wronged nor will you wrong.,then it is not a sin for you, a Quran believers, to have slaves or rob other people freedom. Unfortunately, I'm a free man right now and you need to capture me first to make me your slave. 'Catch' me if you can.
P/s I think Quran's author, a human being, having problem to set priorities. The law for usury, adultery, theft, murder (many more social issues) and where-to-eat issues considerably clear but for the main human issue, which is slavery, there are loopholes here and there which make Quran vulnerable to arguments. Sacred and Forbidden Months issues also has few loopholes.
You can not say slavery is the main issue as most people never could own a slave. In the US less than two percent of the population owned slaves. The average price of a slave in America used to range from 60,000 USD to 120,000 USD in current prices. I know I could never afford it.
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If what you are saying is true and valid, I'm sure at least the Quran translation in this Free-Minds site will be updated soon. Just wait and see.
I think I'm not alone in 'mis-understanding' the Arabic root 'ayn b dl' or 'a3beed' or 'i3abaad'. Most of the world renowned translators had same problem as I am. I'm not sure whether they will agree with you but if they believe in Quran's rule, minorities are the guided one surely they will reconsider.
Are you able to share with me your translation? I'm not an Arabic spoken person and need to rely on translations to understand the meaning of verses in Quran.
Since Quran do not put 'haram' or declare war against slavery as it did on usury, refer below verses
2278 O you who believe, be aware of God and give up what is left from usury, if you are truly believers.
2279 And if you will not do this, then be informed of a war from God and His messenger; but if you repent, then you will have back your principal money, you will not be wronged nor will you wrong.,then it is not a sin for you, a Quran believers, to have slaves or rob other people freedom. Unfortunately, I'm a free man right now and you need to capture me first to make me your slave. 'Catch' me if you can.
P/s I think Quran's author, a human being, having problem to set priorities. The law for usury, adultery, theft, murder (many more social issues) and where-to-eat issues considerably clear but for the main human issue, which is slavery, there are loopholes here and there which make Quran vulnerable to arguments. Sacred and Forbidden Months issues also has few loopholes.
You are again arguing that the translation is quran. Even free minds have errors, yes. Actually you can take every translation and throw it in the garbage, if you ask me. Its only the quran i am intrested in.
Well many muslims have been some assholes throughout history where they have kidnapped, raped and looted the freedom of many people. Especially the khalifahs, they were experts in these crimes against humanity.
The question is whether one would believe that God would allow such an opression?
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You can not say slavery is the main issue as most people never could own a slave. In the US less than two percent of the population owned slaves. The average price of a slave in America used to range from 60,000 USD to 120,000 USD in current prices. I know I could never afford it.
Please do some revision on history subject. Are you running out of oxygen?
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Ibaadi is a different word and hence not the same as a3beed which is commenly known as slave, althought it does not even mean slave in its orginally meaning. The root you are talking about means 'worship', . So are you trying to say that I can buy you as my personal worshipper (slave?).
It is good for you to bring this ?a3beed? issue into the discussion. I have checked the verses related to freeing slave and none of them used the word ?a3beed?. Below are the evidences;
002.177
Laysa albirra an tuwalloo wujoohakum qibala almashriqi waalmaghribi walakinna albirra man amana biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri waalmala-ikati waalkitabi waalnnabiyyeena waata almala AAala hubbihi thawee alqurba waalyatama waalmasakeena waibna alssabeeli waalssa-ileena wafee alrriqabi waaqama alssalata waata alzzakata waalmoofoona biAAahdihim itha AAahadoo waalssabireena fee alba/sa-i waalddarra-i waheena alba/si ola-ika allatheena sadaqoo waola-ika humu almuttaqoona004.092
Wama kana limu/minin an yaqtula mu/minan illa khataan waman qatala mu/minan khataan fatahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin wadiyatun musallamatun ila ahlihi illa an yassaddaqoo fa-in kana min qawmin AAaduwwin lakum wahuwa mu/minun fatahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin wa-in kana min qawmin baynakum wabaynahum meethaqun fadiyatun musallamatun ila ahlihi watahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin faman lam yajid fasiyamu shahrayni mutatabiAAayni tawbatan mina Allahi wakana Allahu AAaleeman hakeeman005.089
La yu-akhithukumu Allahu biallaghwi fee aymanikum walakin yu-akhithukum bima AAaqqadtumu al-aymana fakaffaratuhu itAAamu AAasharati masakeena min awsati ma tutAAimoona ahleekum aw kiswatuhum aw tahreeru raqabatin faman lam yajid fasiyamu thalathati ayyamin thalika kaffaratu aymanikum itha halaftum waihfathoo aymanakum kathalika yubayyinu Allahu lakum ayatihi laAAallakum tashkuroona009.060
Innama alssadaqatu lilfuqara-i waalmasakeeni waalAAamileena AAalayha waalmu-allafati quloobuhum wafee alrriqabi waalgharimeena wafee sabeeli Allahi waibni alssabeeli fareedatan mina Allahi waAllahu AAaleemun hakeemun058.003
Waallatheena yuthahiroona min nisa-ihim thumma yaAAoodoona lima qaloo fatahreeru raqabatin min qabli an yatamassa thalikum tooAAathoona bihi waAllahu bima taAAmaloona khabeerun090.013
Fakku raqabatinBefore this I really thought these verses talking about freeing slaves but it is not to be the case.
Maybe after this MMA meaning solved you guys may want to discuss RQB.
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Please do some revision on history subject. Are you running out of oxygen?
I did. I actually studied the American civil war.
As fas as how the Koran uses slaves, you are wrong. look at verse 24.32 and you can see the Koran used the term (abd) for slave
http//quran.com/24/32
In fact I have not see this verse before. The verse after it uses "right hand possess" which may indicate that slaves and MMA are not the same.
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Below are more Quran translations copied from Free-Minds' site which having Arabic root ayn b dl.
1675 God puts forth the example of a slave who is owned and cannot achieve anything, against one whom We have provided a good provision which he spends of it secretly and openly. Are they the same? Praise be to God, but most of them do not know.
As fas as how the Koran uses slaves, you are wrong. look at verse 24.32 and you can see the Koran used the term (abd) for slave
http//quran.com/24/32
In fact I have not see this verse before. The verse after it uses "right hand possess" which may indicate that slaves and MMA are not the same.
Peace --
The English "slave" or a person owned by another person having no freedom does not appear in verses.
1674 so not put forth to God the similitudes indeed The God knows and you not you know
1675 shows The God example a servant/devotee mmlwka not capable on a thing and from We provided from us a provision good so he spends from it secretly and publicly shall they be equal? all praises to God nay most of them not who know
1676 shows The God example two men one of them dumb not capable on a thing and he each on His Protector wherever He guides him not he comes with better shall be equal he and from orders in justice and he on a path straight?
173 descendants from We carried with Noah indeed he was a servant/devotee thankful
1930 said indeed I servant/devotee The God He gave me the book and made me a prophet
2432 and marry the single from you and the righteous from servants/devotees among you and devotees/handmaidens among you if they are poor enriches them The God from His bounty and The God Encompassing Knowing
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It is good for you to bring this ?a3beed? issue into the discussion. I have checked the verses related to freeing slave and none of them used the word ?a3beed?. Below are the evidences;
002.177
Laysa albirra an tuwalloo wujoohakum qibala almashriqi waalmaghribi walakinna albirra man amana biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri waalmala-ikati waalkitabi waalnnabiyyeena waata almala AAala hubbihi thawee alqurba waalyatama waalmasakeena waibna alssabeeli waalssa-ileena wafee alrriqabi waaqama alssalata waata alzzakata waalmoofoona biAAahdihim itha AAahadoo waalssabireena fee alba/sa-i waalddarra-i waheena alba/si ola-ika allatheena sadaqoo waola-ika humu almuttaqoona004.092
Wama kana limu/minin an yaqtula mu/minan illa khataan waman qatala mu/minan khataan fatahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin wadiyatun musallamatun ila ahlihi illa an yassaddaqoo fa-in kana min qawmin AAaduwwin lakum wahuwa mu/minun fatahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin wa-in kana min qawmin baynakum wabaynahum meethaqun fadiyatun musallamatun ila ahlihi watahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin faman lam yajid fasiyamu shahrayni mutatabiAAayni tawbatan mina Allahi wakana Allahu AAaleeman hakeeman005.089
La yu-akhithukumu Allahu biallaghwi fee aymanikum walakin yu-akhithukum bima AAaqqadtumu al-aymana fakaffaratuhu itAAamu AAasharati masakeena min awsati ma tutAAimoona ahleekum aw kiswatuhum aw tahreeru raqabatin faman lam yajid fasiyamu thalathati ayyamin thalika kaffaratu aymanikum itha halaftum waihfathoo aymanakum kathalika yubayyinu Allahu lakum ayatihi laAAallakum tashkuroona009.060
Innama alssadaqatu lilfuqara-i waalmasakeeni waalAAamileena AAalayha waalmu-allafati quloobuhum wafee alrriqabi waalgharimeena wafee sabeeli Allahi waibni alssabeeli fareedatan mina Allahi waAllahu AAaleemun hakeemun058.003
Waallatheena yuthahiroona min nisa-ihim thumma yaAAoodoona lima qaloo fatahreeru raqabatin min qabli an yatamassa thalikum tooAAathoona bihi waAllahu bima taAAmaloona khabeerun090.013
Fakku raqabatinBefore this I really thought these verses talking about freeing slaves but it is not to be the case.
Maybe after this MMA meaning solved you guys may want to discuss RQB.
You are right, dude. The verses you just quoted does NOT mention anything about slaves, or freeing slaves. RAQ, the word you highlighted in the above verses, means a prisoner or someone with a huge burden on him. We are told to free him or her from that burden. So perhaps, if there were some unfurtunate slaves they would be included in this category, but RAQ is not exclusively for slave.
In fact, I only remember ONE or perhaps NO verse in the quran which talks about slaves or slavery. Its logical, since the whole message in the quran is, that every person should only be the slave of God and NO BODY ELSE. In other words, BEING a slave is a big sin, since he or she sets up another partner, his human master, beside God. In other words, a slave is an idolworshipper which is the only sin God does not forgive.
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I did. I actually studied the American civil war.
As fas as how the Koran uses slaves, you are wrong. look at verse 24.32 and you can see the Koran used the term (abd) for slave
http//quran.com/24/32
In fact I have not see this verse before. The verse after it uses "right hand possess" which may indicate that slaves and MMA are not the same.
The verse in itself prooves that Ma malakat aymanakum, wrongly translated as what your right hands possess, does not means slaves. Just look at these words in the sentence= IF THEY ARE POOR, GOD WOULD....
Have someone heard about rich slaves rotfl rotfl The truth is, that slaves do not own something, since all what they have included their god-given freedom belongs to their master. So they cant be poor or rich. Its only their masters who can be poor or rich.
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You are again arguing that the translation is quran. Even free minds have errors, yes. Actually you can take every translation and throw it in the garbage, if you ask me. Its only the quran i am intrested in.
Well many muslims have been some assholes throughout history where they have kidnapped, raped and looted the freedom of many people. Especially the khalifahs, they were experts in these crimes against humanity.
You looks desperate. Without translation how you want to convey Quran messages to other non-Arabic spoken peoples. Please bear in mind that Quran was written in Arabic and it is not the Arab spoke Quran's language. Those translators translated the Quran using the Arabic language's rules and disciplines with years of study.
You need to be thankful to at least one of the caliphs as he was the one who initiate to put Prophet Muhammad's teaching into book.
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The verse in itself prooves that Ma malakat aymanakum, wrongly translated as what your right hands possess, does not means slaves. Just look at these words in the sentence= IF THEY ARE POOR, GOD WOULD....
Are you translating Quran's words to English? You said,
..... Actually you can take every translation and throw it in the garbage, if you ask me. Its only the quran i am intrested in.
What had happened to you?
Its only their masters who can be poor or rich.
How does poor master(s) possessed slave(s)?
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I did. I actually studied the American civil war.
As fas as how the Koran uses slaves, you are wrong. look at verse 24.32 and you can see the Koran used the term (abd) for slave
http//quran.com/24/32
In fact I have not see this verse before. The verse after it uses "right hand possess" which may indicate that slaves and MMA are not the same.
Please calibrate with WhereIsTheTruth(WITT) and Noon dhe plume what should be the right translation for verse 2432. Word of the day is 'ibadi'.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=45458
Looks like renowned translators having difficulty to choose the right meaning for this particular word.
024.032
Waankihoo al-ayama minkum waalssaliheena min AAibadikum wa-ima-ikum in yakoonoo fuqaraa yughnihimu Allahu min fadlihi waAllahu wasiAAun AAaleemunYUSUFALI Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things.
PICKTHAL And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware.
SHAKIR And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
KHALIFA You shall encourage those of you who are single to get married. They may marry the righteous among your male and female servants, if they are poor. GOD will enrich them from His grace. GOD is Bounteous,
FREEMINDS And marry off those among you that are single, and the good from among your male and female servants. If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
Sahih International And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.
Or to make things simpler, can we come to agreement which English translation to be used in FreeMinds' forum discussions? I have read about our Christian brother looking for right Quran translation(s) to study Islam and by having a standard reference the path to the truth will be brighter.
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Please calibrate with WhereIsTheTruth(WITT) and Noon dhe plume what should be the right translation for verse 2432. Word of the day is 'ibadi'.
Please also consider below verse in the discussion.
003.079
Ma kana libasharin an yu/tiyahu Allahu alkitaba waalhukma waalnnubuwwata thumma yaqoola lilnnasi koonoo AAibadan lee min dooni Allahi walakin koonoo rabbaniyyeena bima kuntum tuAAallimoona alkitaba wabima kuntum tadrusoonaYUSUFALI It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah's" on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."
PICKTHAL It is not (possible) for any human being unto whom Allah had given the Scripture and wisdom and the prophethood that he should afterwards have said unto mankind Be slaves of me instead of Allah; but (what he said was) Be ye faithful servants of the Lord by virtue of your constant teaching of the Scripture and of your constant study thereof.
SHAKIR It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say) Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves).
KHALIFA Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn.
FREEMINDS' It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than God!" Rather "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied."
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You looks desperate. Without translation how you want to convey Quran messages to other non-Arabic spoken peoples. Please bear in mind that Quran was written in Arabic and it is not the Arab spoke Quran's language. Those translators translated the Quran using the Arabic language's rules and disciplines with years of study.
You need to be thankful to at least one of the caliphs as he was the one who initiate to put Prophet Muhammad's teaching into book.
NOPE. Who says it was the caliphs who put the prophets teachings into book? and who says prophets name was muhammad? look, i am not a hadither.
And why do I have to convey \qurans'' message to people who are not arabs? Look, you can find muslims in every community, whether they know quran or not, and you can find disbelievers in every community even if they know quran.
God guides whoever he wants to guide, with or without the quran, and he misguides who ever he wants, with or without the quran. There are billions of revelations from God, quran IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM is just one out of billions. So if I speak with an non-arab I would properly convey another revalation from God, maybe something scintific. Quran is for the arabs, just as you said, but its message is for the whole of humanity and this message is being revealed in several other ways.
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Are you translating Quran's words to English? You said,
What had happened to you?
How does poor master(s) possessed slave(s)?
No, I was just trying to show how contradicting the translation is.
Excately, that is why I woundered that how could the slave or master be poor.
But maybe there were some RELATIVE poor masters, who were richer before but than got poor afterwards.
It does in any case, not change the fact that a slave cannot be poor or rich since he or she does not possess something. -
Please calibrate with WhereIsTheTruth(WITT) and Noon dhe plume what should be the right translation for verse 2432. Word of the day is 'ibadi'.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=45458
Looks like renowned translators having difficulty to choose the right meaning for this particular word.
024.032
Waankihoo al-ayama minkum waalssaliheena min AAibadikum wa-ima-ikum in yakoonoo fuqaraa yughnihimu Allahu min fadlihi waAllahu wasiAAun AAaleemunYUSUFALI Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all things.
PICKTHAL And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware.
SHAKIR And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
KHALIFA You shall encourage those of you who are single to get married. They may marry the righteous among your male and female servants, if they are poor. GOD will enrich them from His grace. GOD is Bounteous,
FREEMINDS And marry off those among you that are single, and the good from among your male and female servants. If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
Sahih International And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.
Or to make things simpler, can we come to agreement which English translation to be used in FreeMinds' forum discussions? I have read about our Christian brother looking for right Quran translation(s) to study Islam and by having a standard reference the path to the truth will be brighter.
The first one is closer. As I told you, ibaad means people. What distinguish ibaad from NAS is that by ibaad he means all kind of people who worship.
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NOPE. Who says it was the caliphs who put the prophets teachings into book? and who says prophets name was muhammad? look, i am not a hadither.
And why do I have to convey \qurans'' message to people who are not arabs? Look, you can find muslims in every community, whether they know quran or not, and you can find disbelievers in every community even if they know quran.
God guides whoever he wants to guide, with or without the quran, and he misguides who ever he wants, with or without the quran. There are billions of revelations from God, quran IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM is just one out of billions. So if I speak with an non-arab I would properly convey another revalation from God, maybe something scintific. Quran is for the arabs, just as you said, but its message is for the whole of humanity and this message is being revealed in several other ways.
You are in a very deep state of confusion.