Forbidden or Sacred Month
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- THZIL HIJJAH (the 12th month of the Islamic lunar calendar), and is the starting month of the four conservative sacred months, followed by MUHHARRAM (which is the 1st month of the year), SAFAR (the 2nd month of the year), and finally RABEE'UL'AWWAL (the 3rd month of the year).
Do you have any evidence or reference to support your quote? If yes, please share.
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Below quote was extracted from discussion in "Dr. Subhi Mansour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran" post. The author of this quote was commenting on verse 2432.
The verse in itself prooves that Ma malakat aymanakum, wrongly translated as what your right hands possess, does not means slaves. Just look at these words in the sentence= IF THEY ARE POOR, GOD WOULD....
Have someone heard about rich slaves rotfl rotfl The truth is, that slaves do not own something, since all what they have included their god-given freedom belongs to their master. So they cant be poor or rich. Its only their masters who can be poor or rich.
How does the poor master(s) who believe in Quran possessed slave(s)? It is by going to war and invade non-Quran believers' countries or villages. To be at attacking side, the Quran believers need to plan and Quran provides them with 'War Calendar' but its author forgot to jot down the names of the months.
But do not blame the author as he is a human and the names of the months can be obtained by associating Quran with Hadith.
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Below quote was extracted from discussion in "Dr. Subhi Mansour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran" post. The author of this quote was commenting on verse 2432.
How does the poor master(s) who believe in Quran possessed slave(s)? It is by going to war and invade non-Quran believers' countries or villages. To be at attacking side, the Quran believers need to plan and Quran provides them with 'War Calendar' but its author forgot to jot down the names of the months.
But do not blame the author as he is a human and the names of the months can be obtained by associating Quran with Hadith.
Oh yeah you are right. The slave master CAN actually be poor rotfl You know, during the caliphats, the muslims used to invade new countries all the time in order to convert these countries to islam. So, when the muslims invaded a non-muslim country, just like marocco in the past, the muslims killed many marroccan men while their mothers, wives, sisters and daughters were raped and afterwards sold as sex-slaves along with their children. Hence there were many hundred-thousands of maroccan female sex-slaves and even more maroccan children slaves while the surviving maroccan men who were also forced into slavery were often castrated. Most muslim men, including all the mullahs and including some poor muslim men, used to possess a few male slaves and children slaves for labour and a larger number of female sex-slaves.
Since the female sex-slaves were most popular, there were an exceeding number of male slaves who were then send to help in invading Spain afterwards, hence you can hear the claim from muslims, that they treated slaves so nice that slaves could even become high-ranking soldiers in the army!
The truth is, that the berber men were sent to the army, of course by force since they were slaves and therefore had nothing to say in that matter, in order to let them be killed first by the spains. No one want to send their own men to war because they can be killed in that war, hence they prefered to send the berber male slaves as soldiers instead. It shows how BAD the slaves were treated by the caliphats, and not how GOOD they were treated, as some muslims argue. It is possibly also from that time that the special interpretation of MA MALAKAT AYMANAKUM was created in order to let it mean slaves and hundred of thousands of hadiths were written regarding how to possess slaves, how to punish them, how the handle and manage them, how to sell them and so on.I only know that because I study history in the university rotfl
Actually all the caliphats have a long history of violence, abuse of power and thousands of thousands of crimes against humanity, especially against people they consider non-muslims.
Thank God the caliphate erea is over. Now its time to fight other criminals like Ghaddafi, Bashar Al-Assad and so on bravo
Back to the topic, as I told you , Ma malakat aymanakum does not mean slaves. It only shows the fallacy of mixing politic and religion together and trying the interpret the holy text according to political circumstances.
Peace
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Below quote was extracted from discussion in "Dr. Subhi Mansour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran" post. The author of this quote was commenting on verse 2432.
How does the poor master(s) who believe in Quran possessed slave(s)? It is by going to war and invade non-Quran believers' countries or villages. To be at attacking side, the Quran believers need to plan and Quran provides them with 'War Calendar' but its author forgot to jot down the names of the months.
But do not blame the author as he is a human and the names of the months can be obtained by associating Quran with Hadith.
2432 Marry off those among you that are single/widow, and the reformed ones from among your male and female servants. If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
Where is the discrepancy here???
Do you even know the definition of servant in the Quranic sense. A servant is a person who has NO FINANCES! Zero, Zip, NADA!!!!
A poor person who has FINANCES is better off than a servant.
So where is the discrepancy here???
The calendar that is allowed in the Quran is a Luni/Solar Calendar. The Lunar Calendar that is used by the "Muslims" is un-Quranic and terribly out of sync with the seasons.
1712 We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day manifest, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. Everything We have detailed meticulously. (The alteration of the day which is caused by the movement of the Earth around the sun is used to calculate the number of years.) - Solar
105 He is the One who made the sun an illuminator, and the moon a light, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the calculation. God has not created this except for truth. He details the signs for a people who know. - Lunar
Peace,
Kevin
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Actually there are big problems with this legend of the Muslim invasion of Spain, let alone whether slaves or not slaves. And I am not too keen on giving up the legend of Egyptian slaves building the pyramids to replace it by the legend of muslim slaves invading countries, and fighting what, the Spaniards of that time? Very little did they fight, no to say nothing, IF there was such military invasion.
The romans took severla hundred years, no time for the "muslim army". Sure, real and faithful history.
I am sick of legends.
I thought your depiction was ironic, but if you say you got it from studying history... it may turn out to be tragic.
And it fits nicely in the build up the islamophobic wave in Europe.
Salaam
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Below quote was extracted from discussion in "Dr. Subhi Mansour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran" post. The author of this quote was commenting on verse 2432.
How does the poor master(s) who believe in Quran possessed slave(s)? It is by going to war and invade non-Quran believers' countries or villages. To be at attacking side, the Quran believers need to plan and Quran provides them with 'War Calendar' but its author forgot to jot down the names of the months.
But do not blame the author as he is a human and the names of the months can be obtained by associating Quran with Hadith.
War is only allowed in the following cases....
(1)Self defense
(2)Protecting the lives of the innocent and to uphold justice.Warfare in the Quran is used to make peace and to prevent injustice. Give me one example in the Quran where warfare is done to promote injustice.
2190 Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors.
2191 Kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. Do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them. Thus is the reward of those who do not appreciate
2192 If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
494 O you who acknowledge, if you mobilize in the cause of God then make a clear declaration, and do not say to those who greet you with peace, "You are not a acknowledger!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God favored you, so make a clear declaration. God is Ever-aware of what you do. (If peace is offered we are to accept it provided that all injustice has ceased)
Warfare is used as a tool to create peace and prevent injustice It is no more different than the war between the Allies and the Axis during World War 2. The Allies (English, Americans etc) fought for peace. This is type of warfare is just and righteous in the sight of God.
Peace,
Kevin
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Actually there are big problems with this legend of the Muslim invasion of Spain, let alone whether slaves or not slaves. And I am not too keen on giving up the legend of Egyptian slaves building the pyramids to replace it by the legend of muslim slaves invading countries, and fighting what, the Spaniards of that time? Very little did they fight, no to say nothing, IF there was such military invasion.
The romans took severla hundred years, no time for the "muslim army". Sure, real and faithful history.
I am sick of legends.
I thought your depiction was ironic, but if you say you got it from studying history... it may turn out to be tragic.
And it fits nicely in the build up the islamophobic wave in Europe.
Salaam
Hello huruf. Thanks for your input. You are certainly right that there are a lot of legends regarding the muslim invasion of Spain. No doubt about that. However, it cannot be denied that the muslim invaders commited a lot of crimes against humanity during their invasion of Marocco, and taking the berber people as slaves was just one crime out of many. And this has nothing to do with islamophobic in Europe at all, since this is taken from the muslims own sources. In fact, the muslim invaders were quite proud of how they made the MUSHREKEENS or KUFFAARS their slaves and servants and how they prevailed in their country. Its like praising yourself because you defeated the enemy.
However, the dispute is mostly about HOW the invasion of Spain happened, and how the fight between the christians in Spain and the muslim invaders from Marocco turned out to be. The europeans, of course, tend to believe that the christians of Spain didnt commited anything wrong to the jews and muslims, while the opposite is the case from the muslim point of view.
Remember the proverb = its the winners who wirte history.
Peace
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Hi all,
This post is about Sacred or Forbidden Months and my point is to tell you guys that Quran is not complete as it fail to mention the names of the months.
No. Rather that the months are well-known and were already pre-established prior to the Quran.
2197 The Pilgrimage is in the four known months. So, whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor quarreling in the Pilgrimage. Any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is awareness; and be conscientious of Me O you who possesses intelligence.
The months are were already known during Muhammad's times. Hence the reason for it being loosely described in the Quran.
Peace,
Kevin
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No. Rather that the months are well-known and were already pre-established prior to the Quran.
2197 The Pilgrimage is in the four known months. So, whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor quarreling in the Pilgrimage. Any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is awareness; and be conscientious of Me O you who possesses intelligence.
The months are were already known during Muhammad's times. Hence the reason for it being loosely described in the Quran.
Peace,
Kevin
So, what are the names of the four Sacred or Forbidden Months?
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So, what are the names of the four Sacred or Forbidden Months?
The names of the four months are questionable. I believe the four months are successive from the Night of Decree to the spring months. You can read about it in Chapter 16 of "The Natural Republic"
Just so you know just because the Quran doesn't provide the name of the months doesn't mean that the Quran is not complete .
The basic criterion to enter paradise are
(1) The belief in an Almighty God
(2) Doing righteous deeds
(3) No association with the One God.This is in the case if a person NEVER heard or read the Quran before. If the above criterion are followed then surely God will let that person enter paradise. Belief in the ONE God and not associating beings with him is the FUNDAMENTAL teaching of the Quran. This is what makes the Quran complete and not the rituals which are meant for people who have the means to follow them
The rituals are meant for the people who have the means to follow them and not those who don't know or have no knowledge of them.
Peace,
Kevin.
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The names of the four months are questionable. I believe the four months are successive from the Night of Decree to the spring months. You can read about it in Chapter 16 of "The Natural Republic"
Just so you know just because the Quran doesn't provide the name of the months doesn't mean that the Quran is not complete .
The basic criterion to enter paradise are
(1) The belief in an Almighty God
(2) Doing righteous deeds
(3) No association with the One God.This is in the case if a person NEVER heard or read the Quran before. If the above criterion are followed then surely God will let that person enter paradise. Belief in the ONE God and not associating beings with him is the FUNDAMENTAL teaching of the Quran. This is what makes the Quran complete and not the rituals which are meant for people who have the means to follow them
The rituals are meant for the people who have the means to follow them and not those who don't know or have no knowledge of them.
Peace,
Kevin.
Do you believe in below verse?
Postponement (of a sacred month) is only an excess of disbelief whereby those who disbelieve are misled; they allow it one year and forbid it (another) year, that they may make up the number of the months which Allah hath hallowed, so that they allow that which Allah hath forbidden. The evil of their deeds is made fairseeming unto them. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk
The months are very important for Quran believers to observe. How are you going to ensure you don't postpone the months when you don't even know when they are?
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Do you believe in below verse?
Postponement (of a sacred month) is only an excess of disbelief whereby those who disbelieve are misled; they allow it one year and forbid it (another) year, that they may make up the number of the months which Allah hath hallowed, so that they allow that which Allah hath forbidden. The evil of their deeds is made fairseeming unto them. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk
The months are very important for Quran believers to observe. How are you going to ensure you don't postpone the months when you don't even know when they are?
Didn't you not understand my last post. RITUALS ARE MEANT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THEM. If you don't have knowledge of them then it is not binding for you to do them. Rituals like contact prays, fasting, and pilgrimage are meant for those you have knowledge of them and have the means to do them. It is binding upon those who are aware of these rituals to do them. Those you don't know these rituals or lack knowledge of them are not expected to do them.
1736 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.
Peace,
Kevin.
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No, there is plenty of doubt that ny muslim army at all entered Spain, amongs other things, because the north of what is morroco today and what is spain today were the same state, the same political unit. So, army or no arme, it could hardly invade. Second in no time almost the whole of what is today'peninsular Spain turned Muslim? By force? that is a big joke, bi, big, joke. Most of the Population of what is now Spain was scinded into trinitarian christianism upheld and impposed by the Gothic kings and nobles, and the population mostly Unitarian christian. The arrival of islam met the approval of at least a big proportion of the unitarian christian population. About what happened in Morroco and that the same Muslim writers uphold it that does not mean a thing. Supposedly it is the muslim writers who also uphold many ludicrous lies about muslims of the first times and the very Prophet and the famous sira of ibn ishak suposedly apologetical is a filthy rag against the Prophet.
It is a big leap to believe that because today we find some writing prejudicial for somebody in some other age, that in that age that writing was no convenient for that someone even if it was false. It is a big leap too, that everybody who wrote in antiquity did not have some interests in writing lies about somebody else of that age, even against his friends, for instance. At that time there were also interests.
To me those hunderds of thousands of women and children slaves, practically de whole population is out of the question. Not even in Spain, with the rewriting of history there is any mention of such a thing. Why would they do that in the African chunk of the country and not in the peninsula, suddenly. That is utterly ridiculousand, there is no reason or motive for it. The enemies of the Muslims were not always declared, like ibn ishak.
History is a spiderweb of lies. And that can be seen with one's own life. Seen that one has seen with his or her very eyes, suddenly have occured differently or have not ocurred, and things that did never occur happen to have ocurred. One has to be very suspicious with everything, particularly with the most tken for granted. nd of how one interprets things.
Salaam
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Didn't you not understand my last post. RITUALS ARE MEANT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THEM. If you don't have knowledge of them then it is not binding for you to do them. Rituals like contact prays, fasting, and pilgrimage are meant for those you have knowledge of them and have the means to do them. It is binding upon those who are aware of these rituals to do them. Those you don't know these rituals or lack knowledge of them are not expected to do them.
1736 Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.
Peace,
Kevin.
Lo! the number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred that is the right religion. So wrong not yourselves in them. And wage war on all of the idolaters as they are waging war on all of you. And know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)
1 to 12, which month Ramadhan is? Quran didn't told you that. Do you observe fasting in the month of Ramadhan?
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Lo! the number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred that is the right religion. So wrong not yourselves in them. And wage war on all of the idolaters as they are waging war on all of you. And know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)
1 to 12, which month Ramadhan is? Quran didn't told you that. Do you observe fasting in the month of Ramadhan?
The month of ramadhan in my view starts during the winter solstice (during the longest nights). You can read more about it in "The Natural Republic " Chapter 16 Fasting.
Again you still do not understand what I am saying. You are not allowed to follow that which you have no knowledge of. Since I have knowledge of the contact prayers, fasting, and Pilgrimage then it is binding upon me to follow these practices. This is not the case with those who DON'T have knowledge.
For those who are not aware of the Book the fundamentals that get you into paradise are
(1) The belief in an Almighty God
(2) Doing righteous deeds
(3) No association with the One God.Peace,
Kevin
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Peace,
2194 the shr/lunar cycle the prohibited for the shr/lunar cycle the prohibited and for the violations retribution so who transgres on you so you transgres to him like manner what transgres on you and fear The God and know that The God with the righteous
The names are shr/lunar cycle 1, 2, 3, and 4
How to place 'Ramadhan' in your calendar?
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The month of ramadhan in my view starts during the winter solstice (during the longest nights). You can read more about it in "The Natural Republic " Chapter 16 Fasting.
Again you still do not understand what I am saying. You are not allowed to follow that which you have no knowledge of. Since I have knowledge of the contact prayers, fasting, and Pilgrimage then it is binding upon me to follow these practices. This is not the case with those who DON'T have knowledge.
For those who are not aware of the Book the fundamentals that get you into paradise are
(1) The belief in an Almighty God
(2) Doing righteous deeds
(3) No association with the One God.Peace,
Kevin
With your latest reply in 'Maybe I'm wrong Desperate god' post, are you still interested to debate with me on this topic or stick to the quote you made below?
Then to you is your belief and to me is mine. .....
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The rituals are meant for the people who have the means to follow them and not those who don't know or have no knowledge of them.
Then please tell me the procedures and methods to cut thief?s hand and flog adulterer. These are the well known laws in Quran and by now Quranist should be able to explain in detail the procedures and methodology although they are still in virtual society. If you don?t do it right you might end up destroy the sinners future or put them to death by excessive punishment esp for young sinners. Please don?t tell me again you don?t have the knowledge as these are well known laws in Quran.
For the adultery punishment, most of the translations agreed with the lashes but for theft pro-Quranist translations have different opinions although the Arabic word clearly say ?cut?. What really happening here is that they ?disagreed? with the Quran?s author on the hand-cutting punishment.
I?ve read sometimes ago a Muslim woman got caught drinking beer in public and the local syariah court sentenced her for a few lashes. She did not want to make any plead and requested the court to proceed with the punishment. The funny thing was, the enforcement team not able to carry out the punishment due to they don?t have the capability and knowledge and they are the one who pleaded to the woman to plead at court to relax the punishment.
What the verse 1736 try to tell you is that you are not a sinner if you have done something which you think is good but in actual fact it is not or not meeting Quran?s guidelines. For example Somebody asked you for money and he claimed to buy food for his family. You gave him some but on his way to grocery store he decided to try his luck at gambling table and the luck is with him. He won more money. He bought more food for his family and your sincere intention fulfilled. What GOD will look at is you sincerity but you will not be accountable for what the man had did with your money. Other example You pay taxes to your government but if the government used your money to attack innocent peoples, GOD will not hold you accountable for what your government did. But if you still cast your vote for the same government on the next election, then you are a sinner in GOD point of view.
As a person seeking for truth, you need to make an effort to understand all the teaching inside any guide book you believed or want to believe in. Surely there is a spark in your mind asking why something looks very important not being explained in details. For this Sacred and Forbidden Months case, the dos and don?ts mentioned in Quran are very stringent yet you can?t observed them due to you don?t know when the months are. Unless you want to stress your brain you can settle with the ?listed and obey? concept.
Do you think GOD purposely wants to confuse you with HIS WORDS?
I?m very interested in the ?The Quran Quiz? post. The person who started it provides a very clear instructions or rules. Everybody who participated has no problem to follow the rules. GOD is revealing something for us there.