"Hebrew", the Children of Israel, and the Semitic Migrations
-
Salaam NDP
Thank you for posting the above surah and I note that here is mentioned the "Chief" from the nation of Musa, which could give us a further clue as to whether there were Chiefs, as well as a Fir3an who were involved in managing the affairs of Msr, and was the King(Malik) of the story of Yousaff but the chief, ie Governor of some part of Msr. hmmSalaam IMHO,
727 and said the chiefs from nation Pharaoh
Not sure what you are assuming or asking; perhaps post in other thread.
-
Salaam IMHO,
727 and said the chiefs from nation Pharaoh
Not sure what you are assuming or asking; perhaps post in other thread.
Sorry my mistake, I meant to say the "Chief" from the nation of Pharaoh.
A as the chief is mentioned as one from the nation of Fir3un does that mean there was Pharoah as well as other authorites like Malik who managed local affairs as in the case of Yousaff(as) there is no Pharoah but Malik of Msr so is Mal'ah same as Al Malik? peace -
Sorry my mistake, I meant to say the "Chief" from the nation of Pharaoh.
A as the chief is mentioned as one from the nation of Fir3un does that mean there was Pharoah as well as other authorites like Malik who managed local affairs as in the case of Yousaff(as) there is no Pharoah but Malik of Msr so is Mal'ah same as Al Malik? peace386 and went forth the chiefs (i.e. advisors/religious leaders etc.)
1243 and said the king indeed seen seven cows fat eating them seven skinny ones and seven ears (of corn) green and other dry O you the chiefs explain to me in my vision indeed/if you are to/of visions interpret
-
Salam Bro pazuzu,
@theNabster
I will answer you in a PM if you don't mind, because this thread is not about Jesus.
Peace...
jazakallah alf khair
Salam Bro IMHO
Salaam, Pazuzu,
Couldn't you publish it in the thread on 3isa?
Actually I would also like to know and I suppose there are more peole that would like to know.
Thanks,
Salaam
Don't we love it, when we become thirsty for knowledge
Peace
Nabil theNabster
-
Noon dhe plume, peace,
you are still at it, trying to shut out Bro pazuzu...
You are entitled to post, but those like me are entitled to ignore you, as we wish to read all pazuzu wishes and feels important to write,
and your interventions are trying to deflect that... I wonder why that is? do you have some hidden, maybe Allah forbids, dark agenda?
-
Noon dhe plume, peace,
you are still at it, trying to shut out Bro pazuzu...
You are entitled to post, but those like me are entitled to ignore you, as we wish to read all pazuzu wishes and feels important to write,
and your interventions are trying to deflect that... I wonder why that is? do you have some hidden, maybe Allah forbids, dark agenda?
Peace theNabster,
He posts...
Quote from Pazuzu on Today at 044220 AM
And it's the proper name of a family or clan that Joseph lived among. And this the same clan that Moses was later raised brought up in. And the head of this clan was called Far3oun...I post that it clearly contradicts Qur'an which says they are different people's...
7127 and said the chiefs from nation Pharaoh you leave Moses and his nation to cause corruption in the earth and forsake you and your gods said we will kill their sons and will let live their women/females and indeed over them subjugators
You instead of refuting above add zero value post accusing me of conspiring.
Yes I'm Albanian CIA, freaking Gjoni Bond with ties to ex Israeli intelligence. >D
OK I?ll fess up that last part is true won?t waste time and ignore you as well.
Have nice life!
Peace
-
Peace @Noon dhe plume
are you ok? maybe you need to relax a bit, and ease off on the caffeine LOL!
so where do you get from what you quoted that the people of Misr and the People of Abraham were the same people?
but you can ignore this post if it bothers you... rotfl
-
You are entitled to post, but those like me are entitled to ignore you, as we wish to read all pazuzu wishes and feels important to write,
and your interventions are trying to deflect that... I wonder why that is? do you have some hidden, maybe Allah forbids, dark agenda?Yes indeed!
Could you all @noon dhe plume, @samia, et al... take it easy, and let bro Pazuzu expose his ideas and give us knowledge, please!It would be shame that you make even this thread become a circus like you made of "Muhammad" and "Pharao" threads...
There are people like myself who find Pazuzu's information eyeopening and mostly enlightening. Try not to disturb much, thank you!
-
so where do you get from what you quoted that the people of Misr and the People of Abraham were the same people?
but you can ignore this post if it bothers you... rotfl
Perhaps you like to respond to below post or you're another cheerleader?
Moreover, I have already shown you that Msrim is the PLURAL of Msr. And it's the proper name of a family or clan that Joseph lived among. And this the same clan that Moses was later raised brought up in. And the head of this clan was called Far3oun, and his wife raised Moses when he was a child. And this was the same clan from which Abraham married.
let us listen to Pazuzu, i find it very informative, interesting , and enlightening , Pazuzu is very well informed and has good knowledge.
Which part is very informative, like the above that contradicts Qur'an?
Yes indeed!
Could you all @noon dhe plume, @samia, et al... take it easy, and let bro Pazuzu expose his ideas and give us knowledge, please!It would be shame that you make even this thread become a circus like you made of "Muhammad" and "Pharao" threads...
There are people like myself who find Pazuzu's information eyeopening and mostly enlightening. Try not to disturb much, thank you!
Yeah sure why not take it with PMs although when he posts nonsense contradicting Qur'an I will call him out.
This is very much like the corruption spread by nineteen numerologists for the extremely naive and ignorant!
2855 and when they hear the nonsense they turn away from it and they say to us our deeds and for you your deeds peace on you not we seek the ignorant
-
Peace.. Noon dhe plume
I think it is wise to let him finish his expos? and then I would be more than delighted to read your objections and detailed analysis regarding what he is trying to say..
Many thanks
-
@Noon dhe plume
Which part is very informative, like the above that contradicts Qur'an?
Where did I contradict the Quran?
{And he who had bought him from MSR said to his wife "Make his stay generous, perhaps he will benefit us or we may take him as a son." And it was thus that We established Joseph in the land and to teach him the interpretation of the narrations. And Allah has full control over his situation, but most of the people do not know}...
Where was Joseph raised, and by whom?
{And the wife of Far3oun said "A pleasure to my eye and yours, so do not kill him, perhaps he will benefit us or we may take him as a son;" while they did not perceive}...
Who rescued Moses from the stream where his mother had first placed him?
{And the one who believed (from among Far3oun's people) said "O my people, I fear for you the same fate as the Day of the Opponents. * Like the fate of the people of Noah, Aad, and Thamud, and those after them. And Allah does not wish any injustice for the servants. * And, O my people, I fear for you the Day of mutual blaming * A Day when you will turn around and flee, you will have no protector besides Allah, and whomever Allah sends astray, then there is none who can guide him * And Joseph had come to you before with proofs, but you remained in doubt regarding what he came to you with, until when he died, you said Allah will not send any messenger after him. It is such that Allah sends astray he who is a transgressor, a doubter}...
Weren't Moses and joseph living in the same place?
Did I ever claim that Joseph and Moses where from among Far3oun's own people? Or did I simply say that they lived among them, ever since the time when their great ancestor, Abraham, had migrated to the region?
You can disrupt the thread as much as you want, but the least you can do is not put words in my mouth.
I see that nobody has commented anything concerning this site given by Pazuzu
http//oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Arabia
Has nobody had a look at it?
I found it quite interesting.
That article is stating that Far3oun's people, as well as Hagar, wife of Abraham before them, were MUSRI, not MISRI.
You have no idea just how close they have come to the truth. It's like they are hovering over the bullseye without hiting it.
Let's go on for now
- Homeland of the Israelites
The events described in the Old Testament never took place in Palestine. They took place in the Surat Country of south west Arabia, the mountainous and coastal region stretching from Asir down to Yemen. Hence, Bani Israel were an ancient Arabian tribe, and the creed of Judaism (associated with the the city of Sana'a - mentioned in the Old Testament by its ancestral name of "Uzal" and the Nasraniyya (associated with the city of Najran) were born among them, and then spread to other lands of the ancient world carried on the wings of the Semitic migrations.
The Quran distinguishes very clearly between the concept of ?Bani Israel? and the concept of ?Judaism?. The two are not synonymous, as the deluded occupants of Palestine and the vast majority of Muslims think. They seem to think that every Jew is an Israelite, and the opposite is also true every Israelite is a Jew. The Quran denies this claim completely, and differentiates between the Children of Israel, who were the descendants of a single man named ?Israel? (I am not 100% sure he was Jacob himself, because the Quran mentions him by name), and Judaism.
Bani Israel were a tribe.
And the ancient tribes of Arabia were very often named after the father of the tribe.
Examples
- Bani Umayya = the descendants of a man named Umayya.
- Bani Hashim = the descendants of a man named Hashim.
- Bani Qurayzha = the descendants of a man named Qurayzha
- Bani Abbas = the descendants of a man named Abbas.
- Bani Israel = the descendants of a man named Israel.
{Those are the ones whom Allah has blessed from among the prophets from the progeny of Adam, and those We carried with Noah, and from the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from whom We have guided and chosen. When the revelations of the Almighty are recited to them, they fall down prostrating, and in tears}?
So as you can see, this man ?Israel? came shortly after the time of Abraham, which places him very close to Jacob and Isaac (chronologically speaking). And this man, along with many of his first progeny, lived and died many centuries before Judaism even appeared.
{Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Clans were Jewish or Nazarenes?" Say "Are you more knowledgeable or is Allah?" Who is more wicked than the one who conceals a testimony with him from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what you do}...
Now this may sound strange to many of you, but the Quran clearly says that the entire succession of prophets, starting from Noah and down to Muhamad (P) were ONE lineage. The Quran was recounting to Muhamad the story of his ancestors, who lived in the same geographical region as he did. Nowhere does the Quran associate between Bani Israel and Palestine. This is a great lie that has infiltrated the beliefs of the Muslims, who have deserted Allah's book and followed the lies of human shayateen.
The age-old presence of Bani Israel as well as Judaism in Arabia is clearly attested to in the ancient Arabic poetry. In fact, Judaism was the creed of the Yemeni kings of the Himyaritic Dynasty, ever since it was first established in the year 120 BC.
The ancient Isralites established, somewhere between the 10th Century B.C and the 8th Cnetury B.C, a small kingdom in the Surat Country. The word ?Surat? means the ?High land? or ?the Heights?, which includes the elevated plateau of ?Najd? as well as the mountainous range stretching from the Hijaz to the north, all the way to the ?elbow? of Yemen in the south. This region is the greenest and most fertile strip of land in all of Arabia, and contains many volcanic peaks which were active in the distant past. The most famous of these peaks are ?Umm al-Qimam? , ?al-Qari3a?, and ?3akwah?. In fact these volcanoes played a major role in the destruction of the people of Lot (whom the Quran mentions were very near to the Mother of Towns) as well as the People of the Elephant.
The Surat peaks are at their highest in Yemen, where they soar to over 3,500 meters. These mountains, the likes of which are not found anywhere in Palestine, match the geography of events in both the Torah and the Quran, concerning prophets David and Solomon. The highest peak in Arabia is ?Jabal al Nabi Shuaib? (Mountain of the Prophet Shuaib) in Yemen, which is 3,660 meters high.
The valleys of the Asir region have been also been known to harbor breeding grounds for locusts, up until not too long ago (So when you think of the Old Testament stories speaking of ?locusts? and ?famine? which plagued the land of the "Msrim", you know where to look).
Check out this link
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUDz6bLKtU8
It is a video of a locust swarm captured in Saudi Arabia.
Also, you might want to read the following article
http//www.emirates247.com/news/region/saudis-warned-against-eating-locusts-2011-02-09-1.353796
In fact, Saudi Arabia has witnessed more locust swarms in the last 50 years than all Arab countries combined!
The land of Asir (a large pportion of which was previously a part of Yemen), is the region that sees the most rain in all of Arabia, both in winter and in summer. It is a land known for its wooden mountains, on which trees of many varieties grow Junipers, Cedars, Acacia, Bramble (Seeneen / Seena'a) and Cyprus. Its mountain slopes have been made into stepped terraces used for planting and agriculture for ages untold, and are among the most fertile regions in the middle east. Figs, olives, dates, grapes, and a wide variety of seeds are grown there until today. The honey of Asir and Yemen is greatly prized globally, and considered one of the finest in the world. It is a land known for its rich resources of iron, gold, and copper, which were much more plentiful in the distant past (the age of David and Solomon).
If you think Arabia is all desert, you better think again, as you check out the following link
http//irhal.com/ar/forum/travel-1172.html
In case you can't read Arabic, I'll tell you what those photos are (from top to bottom)
1 - The city of Al-Taef
2 - Cliffs near Abha
3 - Wooded mountains of Asir
4 - Wooded vales of Asir
5 - More Mountains
6 - Mountain roads of Asir
7 - No title
8 - No titleAnd in case you are wondering why Allah, in the Quran, swears to Muhamad by the fig, the olive, and the bramble tree, now you know.
There, amid the mountain peaks and valleys stretching between Najran and Sana?a, was once a extravagant domain established by Solomon, the son of David, many of whose relics are scattered around the county-side, begging to be excavated. Later on, the Himyaritic Jewish Kings of Yemen established their kingdom in that same region. In fact, we can safely say that the few Jews who reside in Yemen today are the last remnants of this religion in the land of its birthplace.
The land of the Surat was also a region of great economic and political importance in the distant past, because of its location at the hub of the trade routes. It was a land of trade mediation, caravan service, as well as the source of two substances that were prized more than gold itself the legendary incense and myrrh of Yemen. So rich was this land that the Greek and Roman geographers labeled it ?Arabia Felix?, meaning ?Happy? or ?Fortunate? Arabia.
The Read Sea coast, as I will show you later on, was a spot over which the Egyptians and the Assyrians had fought many great wars. In fact, some Egyptian kings launched campaigns against the coastal region, and even delved deep into the Heart of Arabia, sacking the city of Najran on several occasions. (I will show you later the many ancient Egyptian ruins and relics in Arabia, which the Saudis have always been reluctant to uncover). The Assyrian and Babylonian campaigns, which we were deceived into believeing targeted Palestine, in fact targeted Arabia. Archeological evidence has been unearthed in theTaima'a, which showed that the city had been the winter capital for several Assyrian kings, and was the launching point of several campaings directed at the Red Sea coast (the "Tahama" of Asir and Yemen), to discipline the rebelious Arabian tribes. The Romans did the same, later on, as I will show you.
In contracst, there is ZERO archeological evidence of such wars ever having taken place over Palestine. The land of ancient Palestine has been proven to be a peripheral region of little or no importance to the great powers of the time. It was not until around 200 BC when Palestine became a significant spot.
Where was the original Temple of Solomon, for which the Zionists have been looking for for the past 80 years? Refer to the thread entitled ?The Search for Muhamad has Ended? and you will find out where the original Ur-Salem was.
This blessed land, whose history has been shrouded on purpose; hidden from the consciousness of the world, was the theater of the events surrounding a small tribe from among the many tribes of Asir. And this tribe whose name was "Bani Israel", had an experience, somewhere in the heights of Asir and its westen slopes and vales, and left behind a record of it. And this record can be found today in the five books of what is called ? by convention ? the Torah (Though this is not necessarily the correct name). This record was, at some point, very accurate and genuine, and documenyed the trials and tribulations that this tribe went through, as it underwent a transition from a life of goat-herding to a sedentary life of agriculture and trade, until the hands of corruption and forgery started to mess with it, beginning from the time of the Babylonian Exile.
Bani Israel were not aliens to Arabia, nor did they flee to it from the Levant, as the twisted and corrupted history tells us. They were among its original inhabitants. The science of archeology, which the Muslims loathe and despise, is just starting to prove this fact. And this can be confirmed from all that we know about anthropology as well (the study of human migrations and settlements), which teaches us that humans, by nature, often flocked to places that provided them with opportunities for agriculture, game, or trade, until they are forced to leave by an enemy or invading force.
So where did Bani Israel live originally?
The corrupted history that we have been taught and that we continue to teach our children in the universities of the East and West, tells us that Bani Israel were not originally from Arabia, but had migrated or escaped to it from Palestine. And this, according to them, explains the presence of Jews later on, (at the time of Muhamad), and their communities which were established in the cities of Najran, Khaybar, Yathrib, and Taima?a - cities which were no less than veritable oasises in Western Arabia. They also claim that the presence of Jews as far south as Yemen was because small bands of them had migrated to there as merchants during the time of Solomon! (They still insist that Solomon's kingdom was in Palestine, and that the trade relations between ancient Israel and Sheba dicatetd that many Jewish merchants move to Yemen!). And they have been propagating this crap for centuries, cloacked behind the statement of ?God Said So??. until modern archaelogy began to expose their lies.
If Bani Israel had originally migrated to Arabia as refugees, this would mean that in order for them to be established in the regions of fertility and water, in a peninsula whose area is 80% desert and dry land, they would have had to wage continuous wars against its original inhabitants and kick them out of such oasises. And this in fact never happened, nor is it mentioned anywhere in the history of the region.
Ban Israel lived in Yemen, Najran, Tayma?a, Khaybar, and other such oasises, in peace with the other inhabitants, and relied on agriculture and trade to make their living, after their ancestors, Jacob and Isaac were transformed from a life of goat herding, to a more sedentary life, thanks to the effort of Joseph who established them along the trade routes (as we saw in the ?Pharoah? thread). If the Isralites were refugees from Palestine, as our false history claims, they would never have been able to achieve all this success in a land whose inhabitants (the Arabs) were known for their love of raids, wars, and looting, and where water sources were more valuable than gold. The Arabs used to kill each other over such oasises...Do you think they would let a tribe of refugees, migrating from Palestine, simply stroll into the most fertile regions of their land, and settle there without even lifting a finger?
Please think and reflect on this...
Place like Najran, Tayma?a, Yathrib and Khaybar were among the most fertile oasies of Arabia. And the ancient Arabs were never known to simply relinquish such places to others. If Bani Israel came as refugees to Arabia from elsewhere, they would never have been able to settle in such places. They would have found nothing but harsh wilderness and deserts awaiting them, and they would have very likely been the target for raiders and looters. And even if we assumed that the Arabs accepted their presence as refugees ? for a while ? it is completely out of the question that they would have relinquished their scarce fertile regions to a bunch of foreigners.
What we are proposing here is something radically different than what we have always perceived as the unquestionable truth
Bani Israel were not refugees or migrates to Arabia. THEY WERE ALWAYS THERE FROM THE START. They originated there. And, throughout the years, they benefited from solid leadership and unshakable beliefs and principles, which made them very strong, and hence feared and respected by most other tribes. And in an environment as lawless and as harsh as Arabia, where no more than 20% of the total area is habitable, one must have been very strong indeed to maintain his wealth and his land, and to protect it from raiders and looters. So how did Bani Israel eventually achieve all the greatness that they had, if they were originally refugees? Was it through fighting wars with the Arabs to kick them out of their lands?
And the claim that the Israelites were spawned in Egypt, them moved to Palestine, then migrated to Yemen, is nothing but a ridiculous fantasy, whose aim was to hide the true identity of Bani Israel as no more than an Arabian tribe - albeit a special one - and to establish a racist creed claiming that the Israelites were a pure race, and superior to all others.
The time has come for us to change our perceptions and accept this truth, or we will be forever looking at our history through the eyes of others?the eyes of those corruptors and forgers who have turned our past upside down, dictating to us who we are and where we came from.
BANI ISRAEL WERE THE ANCESTORS OF MUHAMAD. And all the stories of the previous peoples and their prophets, related to us in the Quran, took place in Arabia, and nowhere else. And those LIARS who scattered the prophets to the lands of Egypt, Iraq and the Levant, and divided between father and son and between brother and brother, claiming that Isaac was the "father of the Israelites" and settled in Palestine, while Ismael was the father of the "savages" and settled in Arabia, should be all hanged by the you-know-what for their falsehoods, racism, and crimes against history and humanity.
Until we accept this truth, we will forever be lost in the desert of Jewish delusion and Zionist lies.
All the Semitic migration took place FROM Arabia, not TO Arabia. We have been looking at the picture upside down. It is time we turned it around and set it right. The ancient Arabian tribes migrated from Arabia, and moved northwards toward the Levant, Syria, and Mesopotamia. And the Israelites were no more than one of those many migrating tribes. Migration FROM Arabia is the correct direction of all ancient displacements of people, not the other way around. And this truth, which was often reiterated by the ancient Greek and Roman gegraphers and explorers, and very often ignored, has now been confirmed by modern anthropology.
And what was the first thing that migrating tribes or peoples did when they moved to new regions?
Answer They took with them the names of their original homeland - its towns, rivers, mountains, and valleys, and gave them to their new homelands. This process was known to the ancient Arabs as ?tayammun? (the word is derived from YUMN , which means to bring fortune or optimism).We will look next at this phenomenon of tayammun, where I will show you how many of the names of cities, mountains, and valleys in Syria, Jordan and Palestine were in fact Tayammuni names. The most prominent of these names was a city resting on a knoll in ancient Palestine, whose name was mentioned in the Psalms as "The Daughter of Jerusalem", and "The Daughter of Zion".
So, where was the original or "parent" of such places?
I think by now, you know where.
To Be Continued...
-
@Noon dhe plume
Where did I contradict the Quran?
Did I ever claim that Joseph and Moses where from among Far3oun's own people? Or did I simply say that they lived among them, ever since the time when their great ancestor, Abraham, had migrated to the region?
You can disrupt the thread as much as you want, but the least you can do is not put words in my mouth.
Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive! Sir Walter Scott
Peace Pazuzu -- did you not write this?
... And it's the proper name of a family or clan that Joseph lived among. And this the same clan that Moses was later raised brought up in. And the head of this clan was called Far3oun, and his wife raised Moses when he was a child. And this was the same clan from which Abraham married.
clan
n- (Social Science / Anthropology & Ethnology) a group of people interrelated by ancestry or marriage
- (Social Science / Anthropology & Ethnology) a group of families with a common surname and a common ancestor
Therefore, you clearly contradict Qur'an which says they are different people's...
7127 and said the chiefs from nation Pharaoh you leave Moses and his nation to cause corruption in the earth and forsake you and your gods said we will kill their sons and will let live their women/females and indeed over them subjugators
Now you can admit your error, redo your theory make good and ask forgiveness or continue to spread corruption.
-
Oh perrrlease Noon dhe plume,
you have no foot to stand on...
how can someone reared by a clan and not even weaned by a clan (a very important clear cut source of lineage in Allah's System) like Joseph and Moses (Moses was weaned by his mother as he refused to be weaned by anyone else) become a member of a clan?
Both Joseph and Moses and all others of the progeny of Jacob / Israel, were not members of the Fir'3un family/clan (who were the original inhabitants in the area before Abraham migrated there)...
they were (Joseph and Moses and Bani Israel) descendants of monotheist immigrants, although they settled there (as progeny of Abraham)...There are two different peoples, though most Arabians, the peoples descending from Ibrahim, and the original dwellers when he moved to their land... the original dwellers were most probably not monotheists...
You are picking red herrings and trying to debunk with a very poor argument and splitting of hairs...
Now to you, how do you define precisely a tribe?
-
Oh perrrlease Noon dhe plume,
you have no foot to stand on...
how can someone reared by a clan and not even weaned by a clan (a very important clear cut source of lineage in Allah's System) like Joseph and Moses (Moses was weaned by his mother as he refused to be weaned by anyone else) become a member of a clan?
Both Joseph and Moses and all others of the progeny of Jacob / Israel, were not members of the Fir'3un family/clan (who were the original inhabitants in the area before Abraham migrated there)...
they were (Joseph and Moses and Bani Israel) descendants of monotheist immigrants, although they settled there (as progeny of Abraham)...There are two different peoples, though most Arabians, the peoples descending from Ibrahim, and the original dwellers when he moved to their land... the original dwellers were most probably not monotheists...
You are picking red herrings and trying to debunk with a very poor argument and splitting of hairs...
Now to you, how do you define precisely a tribe?
theNabster -- is there are problem in your reading comprehension?
Why are you directing your questions to me and agreeing with me?
Direct your questions to Pazuzu instead...
Therefore, you clearly contradict Qur'an which says they are different people's...
-
Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive! Sir Walter Scott
Peace Pazuzu -- did you not write this?
clan
n- (Social Science / Anthropology & Ethnology) a group of people interrelated by ancestry or marriage
- (Social Science / Anthropology & Ethnology) a group of families with a common surname and a common ancestor
Therefore, you clearly contradict Qur'an which says they are different people's...
7127 and said the chiefs from nation Pharaoh you leave Moses and his nation to cause corruption in the earth and forsake you and your gods said we will kill their sons and will let live their women/females and indeed over them subjugators
Now you can admit your error, redo your theory make good and ask forgiveness or continue to spread corruption.
Peace NDP
Be reasonable and stop picking on Pazuzu just because he used the English word "clan". what wrong with what you quoted from Pazuzu earlier ?
Quote from Pazuzu on Today at 044220 AM
And it's the proper name of a family or clan that Joseph lived among. And this the same clan that Moses was later raised brought up in. And the head of this clan was called Far3oun... Pazuzu again made it clear Reply #48 on Today at 080828 AM Did I ever claim that Joseph and Moses where from among Far3oun's own people? Or did I simply say that they lived among them, ever since the time when their great ancestor, Abraham, had migrated to the region?
I do not see 'clan' being misused, and where do you see a contradiction with the Quraan? Still if you disagreed, with his use of the word 'clan', you could have shown some dignity by suggesting the appropriate word. -
NDP, peace
if you agree with me, then you agree with pazuzu...
and you didn't wish to answer my question... which is fine...
we have issues of miscommunications... and maybe wish to cling to the old maps (let us remember this important semantic principle the map/model is not the territory...)
the old maps are pretty shaky...
-
NDP, peace
if you agree with me, then you agree with pazuzu...
and you didn't wish to answer my question... which is fine...
we have issues of miscommunications... and maybe wish to cling to the old maps (let us remember this important semantic principle the map/model is not the territory...)
the old maps are pretty shaky...
OK this is getting ridiculous -- simple question, do you agree with this by Pazuzu yes or no?
Quote from Pazuzu on Yesterday at 044220 AM
... And it's the proper name of a family or clan that Joseph lived among. And this the same clan that Moses was later raised brought up in. And the head of this clan was called Far3oun, and his wife raised Moses when he was a child. And this was the same clan from which Abraham married.Peace NDP
Be reasonable and stop picking on Pazuzu just because he used the English word "clan". You could have shown some dignity by suggesting the appropriate word when he clarified what he meant Reply #48 on Today at 080828 AM Did I ever claim that Joseph and Moses where from among Far3oun's own people? Or did I simply say that they lived among them, ever since the time when their great ancestor, Abraham, had migrated to the region?Peace IMHO,
Why not let him answer for himself -- obviously you missed his whole theory that it all occurred in Yemen; same people, same language, same everything and when caught in a contradiction with Qur'an he claimed that he said otherwise and the cheerleaders jump out of the internet bushes to lend support and applaud! bravo
Let's clarify and ask him -- Pazuzu, were the people of Moses and the people of Pharaoh separate nations or not?
-
Noon dhe plume, peace...
It seems you are not very good at reading maps... now go back to the map of Arabia, and think about the different locations, and the people living in them... tribes can also be defined by the territory they predominantly live into (along with lineage)...
The area where Far'3un and his clan lived is not the same area as where the non Hebrews lived... when you cross to the Asir region, you become a Hebrew... we do not know precisely how linked they were by lineage, but certainly by status, the Hebrews (outsiders) were considered of lower class... that pretty much defines two castes/clans to me...
Of those "Hebrews" there was a Monotheist named Abraham, of special status with Allah who promised him that his progeny will be very numerous...
Abraham managed to marry into a specific family of Asir, the Fir'3un family / clan... Their members were a ruling family, and ruled over Misrim... whoever they were, they were not from Abraham's lineage...
Now you can carry on extrapolating from pazuzu's story flow, which in my view has been pretty tight up to now...
I have a little element of contention, and it does not have any destructive effect on the edifice, so I leave it until the end as it might be clarified, and unlike you, will not be rude and make it an issue to disturb the flow of what I think is an important very credible narrative...
and I speak as a potential (being careful, despite my genealogical family trees - mother and father) descendant of Mohammed, and descendant of Dahyya Kahina Jewess Queen of the Aures... so this information interests me, as maybe it will prove or disprove that for me....