THE SIGN
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Allah grants His sovereignty whom He chooses and hitherto, He had chosen the American to be in control of the modern civilization in this world.
May be 1886-87 enlighten on this issue. It is one's own choice how he rules when attained power and control. No need to be jealous of America. They worked hard to get this status, they deserved it. And they will loose this status, sooner or later, only by their over doings.
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Quran 11 to 1146
The Quran is complete and fully detailed. Study it carefully and it will be obvious to you. God describes the people who make it to Heaven by what they do and think and He describes the people who go to Hell by what they do and think. Its all over the Quran and all we have to do is follow the guidence.
Appreciate if you can give detail explanation for verse 474 especially the meaning of 'Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks'.
474 Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks; until you bind them, then secure the cords. You may then either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. That, and if God had willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.
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Appreciate if you can give detail explanation for verse 474 especially the meaning of 'Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks'.
474 Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks; until you bind them, then secure the cords. You may then either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. That, and if God had willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.
Salam,
I fail to see the question here. The rules of war are clear. If you are being attacked and killed for your belief in God, as the prophet and the believers were, then God gave them permission to fight back. The rules for war and the rules for peace are clear and simple to understand.My question to you is if you believe in God, why don't you follow His Guidance that He revealed?
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Appreciate if you can give detail explanation for verse 474 especially the meaning of 'Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks'.
474 Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks; until you bind them, then secure the cords. You may then either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. That, and if God had willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.There are certain group of people who just cannot be reasoned and quickly resorted to violence.
They create disorders and love to oppress other people..
For those group of people it's allowable to wage war against them until order are being restored and oppressions are no more..Few weeks ago I've met some fellows from the Ahmadis.. although I disagree with their view/belief... but I told them if the sunnis/salafis majority burn your houses, torture and murder your relatives and perform injustice over you.. (such as commonly found especially in Pakistan) and the government does nothing to protect you.. then FIGHT THEM BACK! Take arms! Stand up! and defend your rights! Until they stop their injustice over you... If you can't do that.. then it's better to migrate away to other safe places and expose to the world regarding their brutality over you..
Salam / Peace
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Appreciate if you can give detail explanation for verse 474 especially the meaning of 'Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks'.
474 Therefore, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the necks; until you bind them, then secure the cords. You may then either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. That, and if God had willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.
Peace peace
This verse has to also conform with other verses of the Quran.Fight in the cause of God against those who attack you, but do not aggress. God does not love the aggressors(2190)
**** Thus you cannot simply attack any disbeliever, unless if THEY attack you.
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Shalom,
I don't recall any misconduct towards me from your part when we addressed the same topic.
The problem I face, when I look at your questions is a bit strange. The questions would have made sense halfway through the revelation of Qur'an. Thus Allah detailing his ayaats for the patient ones. But now that the revelation is complete (it's a long time now). I give no one ANY EXCUSE of isolating something from the ENTIRE SCRIPTURE and asking questions based on that. It is intellectually dishonest for any student of knowledge to do so.
About chronology, go figure out which way its more likely to be stated
- X and Y throws a party and gets married happily. X kills Y.
or - X kills Y. X and Y throws a party and gets married happily.
You do not set free someone and set conditions of captivity. You set conditions of captivity and then free. Once you set someone free, by definition they are not captive.
I am not here to debate. Sorry if I made it looks so. However, if I give a speech to an audience, I would love very much to see them make sense of the overall by correlating relevant parts of the speech. Not by isolating them.
PEACE be on you, May God guide you to success.
------------------------- Student of Allah
- X and Y throws a party and gets married happily. X kills Y.
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When you are at the other side of the court it takes a lot of thinking before you can penned down your thoughts to minimize offensive statements. Hope I managed to achieve it in this writing and make this post a better ?place? for exchanging thoughts and opinions.
During my kid?s days I?m lucky to experience both village and city?s life. Experienced both animism and secular way of life which later transformed to Sunni?s way of life. City?s life is almost the same with other cities in the world whereby money is everything. People are busy with their life and religion?s teachings not really effective to mold them. Village life is the one that changed a lot. Although we are Muslims community, the animism practices still there and mainly because the peoples knowledge in science, technology and Islam still very low or almost none in early 70?s. Believe in demigods or spirits or ?djins? or ?keepers? still strong and influenced village life significantly. They tried not to make these creatures angry so that they will not harm the villagers. It is not as bad as the case of the Arab during pre-Islamic period. They do believe in Allah and prayed to Him to provide rain during the drought season and stop it when flood came but Allah was not alone in His kingdom.
The community consists of a leader which supported by a group of imam(s), the wise ones and the elders, commoners and the most sought after entity during disaster and illness, the shamans. There are two types of shaman, orthodox who recited mantras in our mother tongue and the ?Quranist? type who recited mantras in Arabic.
However, it is the imams, wise ones and elders that ensured the laws and orders of the community in place, including taboos. Peoples lived their life according to the ways molded by this group of peoples. Their thoughts really matters and seems to be carved onto stones. It is important for each individual in the community to align his or her way of life set by them to void punishment and the worst one was being out casted by the community. We need each other help during padi?s planting and harvesting seasons, marriage ceremonies, funeral etc.
Things changed now. With the advancement of science and technology the service of the shamans no longer required by many and the fellowship of the community leader, imams, wise ones and elders broke as people becoming more educated. People do sought advice from these peoples but there will always be a room for second opinion and most importantly room for logic, reasoning, common sense and rationalism. Nowadays, there is no such thing as everything was fixed or ?carved onto stones? for someone to live life. Out casted is not a big issue as individuals able to carry on with their life with or without others support. Almost everything has a price nowadays even for an imam.
The point I?m trying to make here is that, the wind or wave of common sense, logic, reasoning and rationalism has and is slowly eroding the ways of life which earlier thought to be carved on stone, fixed and no change. Quran also not being spared from this wave as we can observe right over here in this site, Quranists are trying to ?clean-up? Quran?s verses to suit their thoughts and principles. Issues like polygamy, ?right hand possessed?, slavery etc. being viewed in different perspective as the original Arabic words seems not fitting the readers? mind. There are cases whereby Arabic words being left out after being translated to other language. It is not just the Quranists that doing this, the modern thinkers of the others sects also doing the same as they realized some of the verses in the Quran needs to be re-translated and re-interpreted to suit modern civilization and thinking. It is a slow process and it is the Quranists who championed this as they have a good and effective tool, the internet and best of all, they are not limited by the hadiths and sunnahs of the prophet. We are yet to witness the big wave when the Quranists ready to emerge from their virtual world into the real world to materialize their version of Quran?s ways of life. Are Quranists ready?
Follow-up on the verse 474 discussion, actually I?ve read few translations in English and my own language, Quranist?s version, which giving more extreme understanding and out of humanity value. Example as below
Sahih International So when you meet those who disbelieve , strike necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either favor afterwards or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. That . And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them , but to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
I don?t know Arabic but these translators surely have some base to translate the Arabic words or sentences of verse 474 into this manner. Maybe they try to be honest to knowledge or maybe they don?t really understand the whole context of Quran.
Dear Jaafar,
Actually Quran has solution for the Sunni/Salafis vs Ahmadis?s issue and for all the conflicts in the Muslim's world but none of the Muslims believe in Quran. Here is the solution from Quran.
499 And if two parties of believers battle with each other, you shall reconcile them; but if one of them aggresses against the other, then you shall fight the one aggressing until it complies with the command of God. Once it complies, then you shall reconcile the two groups with justice, and be equitable; for God loves those who are equitable.
Where are you Quranists? Isn?t this is your responsibility? Why are you hiding in this virtual world? Go out and uphold your God?s words.
Dear Mr.Q, youssef4342 and Student of Allah,
I?ve read your reply to me and please find my reply in this writing. Please be informed that I was not going to put Quran in acid test anymore but more to understand how Quranists going to prove their version of Quran is the one that going to make this world a better place to live.
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DEAR AZ2
The point I?m trying to make here is that, the wind or wave of common sense, logic, reasoning and rationalism has and is slowly eroding the ways of life which earlier thought to be carved on stone, fixed and no change. Quran also not being spared from this wave as we can observe right over here in this site, Quranists are trying to ?clean-up? Quran?s verses to suit their thoughts and principles. Issues like polygamy, ?right hand possessed?, slavery etc. being viewed in different perspective as the original Arabic words seems not fitting the readers? mind. There are cases whereby Arabic words being left out after being translated to other language. It is not just the Quranists that doing this, the modern thinkers of the others sects also doing the same as they realized some of the verses in the Quran needs to be re-translated and re-interpreted to suit modern civilization and thinking. It
Your point is baseless and meaningsless. Quranists are NOT trying to clean anything up, we are only trying to understand quran in the light of the original unaltered arabic words.
You know what your problem is? That you insist that sunni-version is the right islam. How many times haven't people told you that we are not sunnites? Your examples of polygamy, right hands possessed (whatever that means) slavery etc. are viewed differently only because we dont have any ahadith to support these craps.
The quran does not need to be re-translated or re-interpreted, it only needs to be understood without ahadith and in its orginal meaning and than it would fit every timeage and every century.
Again and again you try to blackmail people in this forum by sunnism, you somehow wants us to feel sorry for what the sunniites did or do, and you somehow wants us to excuse and defend their actions or their understanding of the quran. Why should we do that when we have nothing to do with them??? Now shall I also blame you for what secular Stalin did?
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I agree with what whereisthetruth says.
AZ2 still seems to give credit to traditional, translations or (mis)understandings of the truthful Qur'an and taking for granted that any new way of looking at the Qur'an taking it as the sole source of understanding of itself is some twisting of Arabic. It often happens also that many peole comlain because "traitionalists" understand Qur'an "litterally", but that is precisely what traditionalists do not do. They do not take the Qur'an litterally. They take it to fit their "traditional", understanding.
It is when I started leaving asie traditonal understandings of the Qur'an in ayas where there was conflict and looking only exclusively at the Qur'an (and that is very difficult to do, not to be conditonned) that right and clear and simple things came to light literally.
Please stop gving to "traditionalists" the benefi of the doubt of literalism, they are not litteral. But of course their translations, for somebody who cannot look at the Arabic, will be literal, of course then they are not bound anymore by the unchanging word of Qur'an.
You AZ2 shoudl look at many threads where many questions are being dealt with and see where litteralism rules. And take your time. knots that have been tied many centuries, are not easily undone. But those who revere God's word should have the patience to do just that and that cannot be done in a hurry.
But, for God's sake do not take things for granted just because many peoole say them, or because the same people do not tire repeating them.
But if you do, it is your loss, not snybody else's.
Salaam
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I agree with what whereisthetruth says.
AZ2 still seems to give credit to traditional, translations or (mis)understandings of the truthful Qur'an and taking for granted that any new way of looking at the Qur'an taking it as the sole source of understanding of itself is some twisting of Arabic. It often happens also that many peole comlain because "traitionalists" understand Qur'an "litterally", but that is precisely what traditionalists do not do. They do not take the Qur'an litterally. They take it to fit their "traditional", understanding.
It is when I started leaving asie traditonal understandings of the Qur'an in ayas where there was conflict and looking only exclusively at the Qur'an (and that is very difficult to do, not to be conditonned) that right and clear and simple things came to light literally.
Please stop gving to "traditionalists" the benefi of the doubt of literalism, they are not litteral. But of course their translations, for somebody who cannot look at the Arabic, will be literal, of course then they are not bound anymore by the unchanging word of Qur'an.
You AZ2 shoudl look at many threads where many questions are being dealt with and see where litteralism rules. And take your time. knots that have been tied many centuries, are not easily undone. But those who revere God's word should have the patience to do just that and that cannot be done in a hurry.
But, for God's sake do not take things for granted just because many peoole say them, or because the same people do not tire repeating them.
But if you do, it is your loss, not snybody else's.
Salaam
So right. That man just cannot understand we are not here to defend quran, since its only God who defends the quran. We are here to learn what the quran says without the hadith. This man also claims, that when we disagrees with the sunnites than it means that we are 're-interpretating' the quran in order to fit our minds. Ironically he does not consider the sectarians as 're-interpretating the quran' in order to fit their hadith agenda. This only shows, that he think sectarian islam is true islam.
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So right. That man just cannot understand we are not here to defend quran, since its only God who defends the quran. We are here to learn what the quran says without the hadith. This man also claims, that when we disagrees with the sunnites than it means that we are 're-interpretating' the quran in order to fit our minds. Ironically he does not consider the sectarians as 're-interpretating the quran' in order to fit their hadith agenda. This only shows, that he think sectarian islam is true islam.
Dear WhereIsTheTruth,
It seems that something had confused your mind. It is regarding 'Muhammad', name of prophet.
Today in 'Film Making and encouraging haram?' post you mentioned prophet name as 'Muhammad'. Refer below
propher muhammed himself stated that you should not have anything to do with pork or sex, and know mashallah you want to make a movie on that so remember that prophet muhammad is angry with you.
But in 'Dr. Subhi Mansour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran' post, you quoted;
NOPE. Who says it was the caliphs who put the prophets teachings into book? and who says prophets name was muhammad? look, i am not a hadither.
And when I confirmed this state-of-confusion of yours, you replied
You are right, dude. But whats wrong with that? I really like contruktive critic. So if you want to give me feedback, go ahead.
The problem however, as I see it is, that your picture of islam is that of a religion with a special dogma. Let me clearify a few points
- Islam IS NOT A RELIGION
- God does NOT care about your religion, what he cares about is your actions
- MUSLIM means a submitter to God, and you achieve that status by virtue, honor, respect, good deeds and healthy thoughts.
Peace
The character that you are displaying is giving negative impact to Quranist's reputations. You are among those who being guided by Allah and please be one.
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Dear WhereIsTheTruth,
It seems that something had confused your mind. It is regarding 'Muhammad', name of prophet.
Today in 'Film Making and encouraging haram?' post you mentioned prophet name as 'Muhammad'. Refer below
But in 'Dr. Subhi Mansuour on the term "muhsanat" in the Koran' post, you quoted;
And when I confirmed this state-of-confusion of yours, you replied
The character that you are displaying is giving negative impact to Quranist's reputations. You are among those who being guided by Allah and please be one.
Dear az2. It is great to see the attention you give my posts. Always good to have admirers. But sadly you didn't had brain cell enough to understand that I was being sarcastic in my post to 'film making and encouraging Haram'. You seriously lack sense.
Frankly if anyone is confused than its you, you avoid difficult questions post to you and you keep insist that sunnism is true islam. You was not even able to answer my post to you.
Honestly, i find it very, VERY hard to take you serious, and so do most people in this forum.
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Dear az2. It is great to see the attention you give my posts. But it is funny that you don't understand basic sarcasm in a post which has nothing to do with you.
Frankly if anyone is confused than its you. You was not able to reply on one single of my words to you, all you do is talking without knowledge.
Honestly, i find it very, VERY hard to take you serious.
I gave high attention to as much posts as possible in this site as I'm seeking for GOD's signs and guidance. I took very seriously every post which came from person(s) with consistent stance and life principles. I have high respect for these peoples no matter what their believe are and doesn't matter if they are knowledgeable or not. I knew in person few peoples with low knowledge level but the way they live life is much better than those who have knowledge. They always do what they say.
26226 And that what they say, is not what they do!
612 O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do?
613 It is most despicable with God that you would say what you do not do.You know what, Quran's author was really an observant person. There are many that only 'say' but fail to 'do'.
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I gave high attention to as much posts as possible in this site as I'm seeking for GOD's signs and guidance. I took very seriously every post which came from person(s) with consistent stance and life principles. I have high respect for these peoples no matter what their believe are and doesn't matter if they are knowledgeable or not. I knew in person few peoples with low knowledge level but the way they live life is much better than those who have knowledge. They always do what they say.
26226 And that what they say, is not what they do!
612 O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do?
613 It is most despicable with God that you would say what you do not do.You know what, Quran's author was really an observant person. There are many that only 'say' but fail to 'do'.
Are you here to seek gods signs? As far as I can see you are not interested in listening, only in getting some attention by expressing negative views. Many people have closed your mouth so many times, but you keep on repeating the same attitude i.e ''sunnism is true islam' ''everyone who disagrees with sunnis are liers'' and other absurdities, and when i refuted you, you was unable to reply because you know i was right.
Anyways, good luck on your quest.
Peace
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This 'General Issues / Questions' forum had been very quiet for the last few hours. When this happened to a certain forum, it means that the majority that control the forum do not have answer for certain issue that being brought up by the minority. Whoever that already in the issue will keep on trying to get the answer or find some workaround solution while rests will keep themselves away to avoid trouble.
524 They said "O Moses, we will never enter it as long as they are in it, so go you and your Lord and fight, we will stay right here!"
The author of the Quran was a very observant person.
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This 'General Issues / Questions' forum had been very quiet for the last few hours. When this happened to a certain forum, it means that the majority that control the forum do not have answer for certain issue that being brought up by the minority. Whoever that already in the issue will keep on trying to get the answer or find some workaround solution while rests will keep themselves away to avoid trouble.
524 They said "O Moses, we will never enter it as long as they are in it, so go you and your Lord and fight, we will stay right here!"
The author of the Quran was a very observant person.
What a miracle. The Quranists shy away from the forbidden months' issue. It had been a very-very long no-reply period since MASOOMboy's last post.
The author of Al-Quran does not shy from putting away example (verse 226) and there are two good examples of what really happened in this forum for the past few days.
Donkey example
625 The example of those who were given the Torah, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of the people who denied the revelations of God. And God does not guide the wicked people.Some really like donkey carrying a cargo of books or just a book. It just take the load from one place to another without knowing the contents in the cargo or book.
Dog example
7176 And if We had wished, We could have raised him with it, but he stuck to the earth and he followed his desire. His example is like the dog, if you scold him he pants, and if you leave him he pants; such is the example of the people who deny Our revelations. So tell the stories, perhaps they will think.Some like dog, all they can do is panting. They knew very well that there are few things missing in their kitab but couldn?t open up their minds for the truth.
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This 'General Issues / Questions' forum had been very quiet for the last few hours. When this happened to a certain forum, it means that the majority that control the forum do not have answer for certain issue that being brought up by the minority. Whoever that already in the issue will keep on trying to get the answer or find some workaround solution while rests will keep themselves away to avoid trouble.
Yeah this is the only explanation available, there's no other reason AT ALL. It could be, just maybe...that they realise a decent logical 'discussion' with you is futile. Some people value their time after all. But go on believing that people are ignoring you because you're awesome.The author of Al-Quran does not shy from putting away example (verse 226) and there are two good examples of what really happened in this forum for the past few days.
Donkey example
625 The example of those who were given the Torah, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of the people who denied the revelations of God. And God does not guide the wicked people.Some really like donkey carrying a cargo of books or just a book. It just take the load from one place to another without knowing the contents in the cargo or book.
Dog example
7176 And if We had wished, We could have raised him with it, but he stuck to the earth and he followed his desire. His example is like the dog, if you scold him he pants, and if you leave him he pants; such is the example of the people who deny Our revelations. So tell the stories, perhaps they will think.Some like dog, all they can do is panting. They knew very well that there are few things missing in their kitab but couldn?t open up their minds for the truth.
And unlike the author of the Quran, you 'do not shy' from using examples willy nilly regardless of whether they suit or have any context. Here's a verse for you621 And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah or (he who) gives the lie to His communications; surely the unjust will not be successful.
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And unlike the author of the Quran, you 'do not shy' from using examples willy nilly regardless of whether they suit or have any context. Here's a verse for you
Same as the author of the Quran, you also don't know to set priority. It is MASOOMboy's question regarding the forbidden month you should respond to first instead of responding to me.
The donkey and dog examples plus others like monkey, cattle etc. are commonly used by Quranist to the Sunni or Shia or other sects or the non-believers. No guilty feeling as to the Quranist it was Allah who thought them this. I just want to see what is its impact to the Quranist. It had awakened you, the Wise One / Burnout.