grammar and breaking words in the quran.
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Peace,
Here is a post from another forum. I think the relevance for this thread is related to the grammar being discussed and breaking words.
Analysing Quran
Posted By Madam Kim Seok-Im, Ph.D.
Date Wednesday, 6 October 2004, at 1214 p.m.
kehadapan majlis saudara Saim Bakar yang dihormati,
Selamat,
I should perhaps interject a bit of information regarding the quranic text
re sawm and 'wa kulu, wa ashrabu'...the problem with the original quranic
texts is that when they were collated, they were written without the
diacretic signs ex. tanwin, fatha, shadda, maddha ,kasref,nun-nation etc..
since arabic is a triconsonantal language akin to hebrew and ethiopian, the
insertion of vowelic signs can change the meaning...later scholars inserted
the vowelic signs, interestingly these lead to variant meanings , some of
which are very subtle, yet profound. Interestingly there were compilations
of arabic prose and poetry in a form of proto arabic, but yes, the Quran was
a major opus re al lughal fushaa.... there are some words in the ancient
texts which appear related to the aramaic and versions of syro-aramaic, or
syriac which were extant languages at that time and I am sure the quranic
scholars had familiarity with. Also there were already in those days
numerous jewish tribes that resided in the arabian peninsula, most were
after the diaspora and also some tribes were trying to escape the harsh rule
of the romans. As of writing, several german and arabic scholars are
engaged in very exciting analyses of the sana'a texts which appear to shed
more light on the evolution of the quranic verses over time. This new
scientific finding is very important and allow for us to understand that the
quranic texts are not a static composition but a vibrant dynamic writing
which allows for updated understanding with the changing world and with
advance in human knowledge...this is a very joyous finding as the alam
tabiat of Allah ta'ala is not a dead and static phenomenon , but rather an
evolving and changing phenomena....if there is any constant, it is change.Regretfully Mullah-Islam would like us to
remain static and to constantly reminisce on past glories , mistakenly
thinking that retrospection and retrogression is a virtue ! This further
reminds me that Mullah Islam as practiced by a billion human beings is
appearing more and more akin to the status of christianity in the middle
ages and in years bygone, where official tafseer and ijtihad of the
Churchfathers was sacrosanct and any dissent or independent interpretation
or analyses of the sacred texts were suppressed......this is called
religious monopoly and hegemony !....do you all see similarities in the
state that Islam is in today? Competing sects even engage in 'taquiyyah'
and violent retribution has even been visited on unfortunate muslims who
dissent or disagree with the official versions of the quranic texts ! My
what a cruel web of deception they have woven over the last 1400 yrs! (
adinda yang berkesederhana sahaja berkenaan ilmu falsafah dan agama LOL )
Ashkurukum wa ma3a Salaamah
Terima kasih dan selamat jalan
Muito obrigado e ate logo
Madam Kim Seok-Im, Ph.D.
Korean ethnologist specializing in exclusionary and irrational adamic cults -
Peace,
Here is a post from another forum. I think the relevance for this thread is related to the grammar being discussed and breaking words.
Madam Kim Seok-Im, Ph.D.
Korean ethnologist specializing in exclusionary and irrational adamic cultssalaam Grourself,
do you know how i can contact Madam Kim?
thanks for your help.Peace.
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Peace Rossi,
salaam Grourself,
do you know how i can contact Madam Kim?
thanks for your help.I don't have permission but I can forward any inquiries.
salaam Grourself,
would like to ask more about her work...
wondering if she could assist me in mine...thanks & peace.
rossi -
Salaam,
The Sanaa texts are online at unesco, they've also been analyzed by various scholars for years, the good "Dr". is not up to date at all. The texts agree with the Qur'an we have today, Gerd Puin wrote an article on it which most haven't seen;i'll put it online later. The main "discovery" seems to be manuscripts which have surahs in a different order, but that isn't so uncommon. Some people when they would travel would bring only a few surahs with them, not the entire Qur'an, the proof of this is in the size of these manuscripts found,' if they would have contained all 114 surahs, they would've been over 2 metres tall. Also, the good "Dr". is without a doubt not a Muslim, as she espouses the theories of a certain Christian whose book on the Aramaic origins of the Qur'an has been discredited. People online need to be very careful of "muslims" who have theories that sound exactly like theories that are propagated by Christians with a desire to discredit Islam. Btw, Dr. Kim is not a Korean, I hope people realize that it is a person using a pseudonym.
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Peace,
Dr. Kim is not a muslim, but then neither are the billion plus others who call themselves so. Thanks for the info on the research. We should be prepared to answer any question rationally or scientifically and Not as religious zealots.
Also, the good "Dr". is without a doubt not a Muslim, as she espouses the theories of a certain Christian whose book on the Aramaic origins of the Qur'an has been discredited. People online need to be very careful of "muslims" who have theories that sound exactly like theories that are propagated by Christians with a desire to discredit Islam. Btw, Dr. Kim is not a Korean, I hope people realize that it is a person using a pseudonym.
The Quran can stand up to any scrutiny and who cares whose theory it is. I wouldn't embrace it or give it any more or less credence based solely on belonging to a particular group, race or if I knew their real name. BTW anyone who uses the internet and thinks they know real names should have their PC child-proofed.
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Salaam,
"Dr. Kim is not a muslim, but then neither are the billion plus others who call themselves so"
That quote is very revealing, I personally don't have the knowledge to claim a billion people who claim to be Muslim aren't, you obviously are far more informed than most men.
Regarding Dr. Kim,if the person is not a Muslim, then what is this for
"
This new
scientific finding is very important and allow for us to understand that the
quranic texts are not a static composition but a vibrant dynamic writing
which allows for updated understanding with the changing world and with
advance in human knowledge...this is a very joyous finding as the alam
tabiat of Allah ta'ala is not a dead and static phenomenon "The person certainly seems to be portraying a Muslim there.
This quote
" wouldn't embrace it or give it any more or less credence based solely on belonging to a particular group, race or if I knew their real name."
Your statement is not serious I hope. Real names are needed for peer review, so one can authenticate if the person is qualified to write a particular book or paper. In the scientific world, only people who use their real names tend to be taken seriously, a person using a pseudonym is most likely just hiding from the fact that they have no qualifications.
"BTW anyone who uses the internet and thinks they know real names should have their PC child-proofed"
Normally,yes, but if someone claims to be a phd doing research, then evidence must be given to authenticate that claim. I'd appreciate it if the good Dr. could supply us with credentials, references, contacts,etc. If not, I'll just assume the person using that name is you.
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Peace,
Dr. Kim is not a muslim, but then neither are the billion plus others who call themselves so. Thanks for the info on the research. We should be prepared to answer any question rationally or scientifically and Not as religious zealots.
Also, the good "Dr". is without a doubt not a Muslim, as she espouses the theories of a certain Christian whose book on the Aramaic origins of the Qur'an has been discredited. People online need to be very careful of "muslims" who have theories that sound exactly like theories that are propagated by Christians with a desire to discredit Islam. Btw, Dr. Kim is not a Korean, I hope people realize that it is a person using a pseudonym.
The Quran can stand up to any scrutiny and who cares whose theory it is. I wouldn't embrace it or give it any more or less credence based solely on belonging to a particular group, race or if I knew their real name. BTW anyone who uses the internet and thinks they know real names should have their PC child-proofed.
peace Cathedral & Grourself,
listen brothers/sisters...
how does one tell whether another is a 'muslim'?
does one receive a certificate/certification/verification?
from who?
God?
so why worry about religious 'labels'...i agree with Grourself...
we shouldn't worry about being influenced by socalled 'non-muslims'.
we should trust that our God given power of reasoning...
will help us see through the fallacies and deception...
and find the truth.
so Grourself, can you help me contact her?Peace.
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Salaam,
"how does one tell whether another is a 'muslim'? "
Grourself said that 'dr kim" is not a Muslim.
"so Grourself, can you help me contact her? "
Don't be naive, there is no Dr. Kim. If Grourself provides contacts, references, etc for the 'dr" I will of course rescind that statement, but I have a slight suspicion that will not happen.
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Peace,
Warda, Thanks for the link.
Your statement is not serious I hope. Real names are needed for peer review, so one can authenticate if the person is qualified to write a particular book or paper. In the scientific world, only people who use their real names tend to be taken seriously, a person using a pseudonym is most likely just hiding from the fact that they have no qualifications.
"BTW anyone who uses the internet and thinks they know real names should have their PC child-proofed"
Normally,yes, but if someone claims to be a phd doing research, then evidence must be given to authenticate that claim. I'd appreciate it if the good Dr. could supply us with credentials, references, contacts,etc. If not, I'll just assume the person using that name is you.
Peace Cathedral,
Your post sounds like a veiled challenge which I tend to ignore and ?Madam Kim? may be of the same mind. However, if she chooses to respond to Rossi, rescinding your statement won?t be sufficient. I?ll expect you to ?eat your hat? or at least one of those ?kufis? that are so much a part of the Arab religion they call Islam. lolCalling oneself a muslim and practicing pagan rites and rituals and practicing shirk surely does not make the billion plus who do so, among those who have surrendered for God and follow the upright example of Abraham and Muhammad. God does not promise the muslim or mu?min large numbers. He promises them success and victory. The majority on earth do not serve Him without shirk. It will not be forgiven by Him. If you follow the majority on earth they will lead you astray, away from the siratal mustaqeem. When the Messenger is made to say on the day of Deen in the Reading, that this is my qaum, my people who have abandoned/disabled/hobbled this Qur'aan, that cannot change, it?s timeless and must always be as he is saying it on that day. The Book never condemns a people globally but God has chosen to warn us about the hypocrites among the arabs. They built a system of submissions, not a mosque, as has been so aptly corrupted to read in the translations and teachings by these same hypocrites. They presented mankind with a collection of fabrications, insults to the Messenger and the intellect, and lies as from God. He will reward them for it and they are not muslim, nor are those who do not use their reason and intellect who follow them. Those who don?t use their intellect drag themselves down from the station for which they were created. They don?t serve God, they serve satan. They will suffer in this life and in the next. Blind following with good intentions will not be accepted from them. I find only two parties in the Book, the party of God and the party of Satan. Who are these billion plus people? To which of the parties do they belong?
The scientific world is the real world so don?t believe the hype. God guides according to laws and the only really important credentials are intellect and a pure heart seeking guidance.
If blindly following the arab religion for over 30 years is credential worthy, then I have a PhD in that field. I?m actually flattered that someone would think that I have the acuity to seriously attempt such a masquerade. I?ll take the truth where I find it. A friend once offered as the explanation for some actions of people this statement
The truth will nag at your mind. In time you will either totally accept it or totally reject it.
When I ponder on this, I find it to be true.
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Salaam,
Peace Cathedral,
Your post sounds like a veiled challenge which I tend to ignore and ?Madam Kim? may be of the same mind.I'm not surprised you'd "ignore" it, there is no Dr. Kim,so you have no choice. The challenge wasn't veiled, either show the credentials or have everyone who reads this know you are a fraud.
However, if she chooses to respond to Rossi, rescinding your statement won?t be sufficient.
Merely registering on a forum and responding is not enough, references,contacts, phd advisor,etc.
Calling oneself a muslim and practicing pagan rites and rituals and practicing shirk surely does not make the billion plus who do so, among those who have surrendered for God and follow the upright example of Abraham and Muhammad.
If people truly believe they are doing the right thing, as laid out by their various religious authorities,and truly believe in Allah, why would they be punished?
It will not be forgiven by Him.
You speak for Allah now?
If you follow the majority on earth they will lead you astray, away from the siratal mustaqeem
I agree, the majority of people on earth do not call themselves Muslims, so they would be led astray.
The Book never condemns a people globally but God has chosen to warn us about the hypocrites among the arabs.
Qur'an doesn't say that about the Arabs, read the word again. You sound awfully hateful of Arabs though, you made this statement as well
I?ll expect you to ?eat your hat? or at least one of those ?kufis? that are so much a part of the Arab religion they call Islam.
Why so much hate?
The scientific world is the real world so don?t believe the hype. God guides according to laws and the only really important credentials are intellect and a pure heart seeking guidance.
Huh???????? Let me translate,
" I am the person who posted who posted as Dr. Kim, and since I can't supply any credentials, I'm going to act like only a pure heart is what matters, not mastery of the subject I'm writing about"
I also have to point out that you don't actually believe that at all, otherwise you would not have posted as a Korean Phd.
Now I hate to get away from your rambling, but your entire post basically ignores what my post was about, that there is no Dr. kim, and that person using that pseudonym is a fraud,namely you. By creating a "straw man" you simply tried to divert attention from my request, which is to show evidence that the aforementioned person is legitimate. It's also quite odd that "Dr. Kim" won't give permission for you to at least give out his email address , which undoubtedly has a Korean domain, correct? If the "Dr." is so secretive, how come you know so much about him?
Dr. Kim is not a muslim
How would you know that? His post shows no evidence of that. It would also be helpful to give the forum that the "Dr." posted on, thank you in advance.
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Peace,
What a ridculous moronic tirade. Each statement you question is an ayyat of Qur'an. It's a waste of time discussing this any further with you. As for Madam Kim, did ya ever think that perhaps there are more writings by her where she states that she is not a "muslim" by your standards that is, then the small portion posted on this forum. Anyway, who cares? Will you not think?