Can we pray for our christian friends?

Maha

The problem with many Muslims (if you would have read the Quran, you'd understand that it is what Allah has called us) is that they prejudge with no knowledge whatsoever (ex you and Jafar). You are very wrong in what you have said anyway. It does not matter, we will both fully be judged and we will see who used to invent and lie.

I have been witnessed for a while that you have a serious problem with your attitude. I would kindly suggest you to show basic manners and respect towards others in this forum. Brother Jafar and brother Bigmo are seniors here on freeminds and our deeply respected brothers. They are much more wiser and possess much more deep knowledge about the quran than you would ever do, so I wound kindly suggest you to listen and learn instead of attacking and insulting.

Peace.

Maha

Yup.. 100% agree...

Little they realize that

islam is not a religion or sect
moslem is attainable through virtues & deeds and not through membership of certain religion or sect.
there are moslems nearly within every religion or sect.

Salam / Peace

May God bless us with more of your enlightening knowledge brother bravo

Peace

IMHO

I have been witnessed for a while that you have a serious problem with your attitude. I would kindly suggest you to show basic manners and respect towards others in this forum. Brother Jafar and brother Bigmo are seniors here on freeminds and our deeply respected brothers. They are much more wiser and possess much more deep knowledge about the quran than you would ever do, so I wound kindly suggest you to listen and learn instead of attacking and insulting.

Peace.

I think you have a serious problem; you only resgistered last week and yet you have taken it upon yourself to dictate to others who to listen to and behave and you give your verdict as to who is much more wiser and possess much more deep knowledge about the quran
I would kindly suggest you get your head examined as it's grown a bit too big.
peace

Maha

I think you have a serious problem; you only resgistered last week and yet you have taken it upon yourself to dictate to others who to listen to and behave and you give your verdict as to who is much more wiser and possess much more deep knowledge about the quran
I would kindly suggest you get your head examined as it's grown a bit too big.
peace

Hello IMHO. I have been passive learning and reading freeminders for years although i never debated because I did not considered myself to possess so much knowledge at that time. But now I think that I have learned enough from freeminds now that I can actually engage in debates, hence I made my profile. Do you got any problem with it?

Hey by the way IMHO. You also have serious problem with you attitude just like your good friend Iznagen. You two have been VERY rude to others in this forum. I kindly suggest you two's to stop acting like small children and instead start learning how to converse and debate like grown up adults.

Peace

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

@MahaI find that using the "ignore" function in the profile helps--on about a dozen or so folks (for me, so far).

Maybe it is for the best that negative attitudes show in certain persons; when someone "outs" themself with discourteous discourse, their arguments are usually (not always) grounded in opinion instead of AQ.

May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Jafar

Why do we judge based on emotions? Just because a Christian (Trinitarian) seems nice, you think you can rationalize that they will go to heaven?

It's not for us to judge who shall go to heaven.
The habits of 'judging other people' is a very bad habit, a legacy from sectarianism or specifically the pharisee judaism sect.. A jewish dude 2000 years ago said; 'don't judge lest you yourselves shall also be judged'.
The notion of only certain member from certain religion (or religions) shall go to 'heaven' is as ridiculous as the notion of only American citizens shall go to heaven and/or only Saudis citizen shall go to heaven.

Quran clearly says that the only way of life (translated as religion) that is acceptable by God is Submission. Does Trinitarian Christians practice Submission? Something to reflect on.

Dien is 'attitude,opinion,judgement' (towards something).
The Quran said the (proper) attitude,opinion,judgement (dien) to / towards God is submit/peacefully and gladly accept (islam).

"Let Your will be done, on earth as it is on heaven"

That's the excerpt from the "Lord's prayer" which millions of people commonly labeled as 'christian' said in their daily prayer, as taught by a jewish dude named Iashua about 2000 years ago....

Salam / Peace

amuslim

Peace

It's not for us to judge who shall go to heaven.
The habits of 'judging other people' is a very bad habit, a legacy from sectarianism or specifically the pharisee judaism sect.. A jewish dude 2000 years ago said; 'don't judge lest you yourselves shall also be judged'.
The notion of only certain member from certain religion (or religions) shall go to 'heaven' is as ridiculous as the notion of only American citizens shall go to heaven and/or only Saudis citizen shall go to heaven.

I agree with your statements completely. I am saying that people saying that "Trinitarian Christians" are safe from God's punishment is no different than saying Abraham's father is going to heaven. The two ways of belief are the same, shirk. God tells us that He will not forgive it, not me. Yet, people contradict what God says. That in itself is judging.

I am not one to judge. As I mentioned, it is up to God. I am simply reminding everyone not to say things because their emotion leads them to. Don't spread false teachings. Speak from the Quran, not emotion.

Dien is 'attitude,opinion,judgement' (towards something).
The Quran said the (proper) attitude,opinion,judgement (dien) to / towards God is submit/peacefully and gladly accept (islam).

"Let Your will be done, on earth as it is on heaven"

That's the excerpt from the "Lord's prayer" which millions of people commonly labeled as 'christian' said in their daily prayer, as taught by a jewish dude named Iashua about 2000 years ago....

Salam / Peace

Yet they associate partners and make partners with God with a mere creation? Christians completely go against the teachings of Christ. They are the Quranic definition of polytheists. Notice that when the Quran speaks of those that worship Jesus, he doesn't say that they are the Nazarenes (translated in English as Christian). It's all a matter of terminology. Today's Christians are not the people that God is talking about in the Quran. It is simply a translation issue.

BTW, you sure Esau taught them the Lords Prayer? You know that there are two different Lord's Prayer right? You also know that according to the latest discoveries, the first "Gospel" wasn't written till about 30 to 40 after his "death". Also, to accept what he supposedly said in the Christian Bible is dangerous, as he contradicts himself since it is not the Word of God but a compilation of many men over a 1000 years.

I also saw that you said that there are Muslims in other religions and sects. I agree with that statement, but they need to follow the fundamental principle of Submission, strict monotheism. Many indigenous beliefs believed in this before exposure to the West, yet Christians came in and destroyed this belief. The very ones that called people kafirs are the primary example of what polytheists are.

Of course, God knows us each individually and knows how we believe. God is the best judge.

Peace

Maha

Greetings and Peace, all group

@MahaI find that using the "ignore" function in the profile helps--on about a dozen or so folks (for me, so far).

Maybe it is for the best that negative attitudes show in certain persons; when someone "outs" themself with discourteous discourse, their arguments are usually (not always) grounded in opinion instead of AQ.

May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Thanks for your advice, brother.

amuslim

Yet they associate partners and make partners with God with a mere creation? Christians completely go against the teachings of Christ. They are the Quranic definition of polytheists. Notice that when the Quran speaks of those that worship Jesus, he doesn't say that they are the Nazarenes (translated in English as Christian). It's all a matter of terminology. Today's Christians are not the people that God is talking about in the Quran. It is simply a translation issue.

I think you got a very narrow-minded defination of what it means to be a christian. First of all, not all christians believe in the divinity of Jesus. Third thing, if Christians all make partners with God as you claim, Than todays muslims must be in the same category since they make excately the same claims about Muhammad. And yes God is sometimes talking about todays christians, just look at the verse warning them for believeing in the divinity of jesus.

I also saw that you said that there are Muslims in other religions and sects. I agree with that statement, but they need to follow the fundamental principle of Submission, strict monotheism. Many indigenous beliefs believed in this before exposure to the West, yet Christians came in and destroyed this belief. The very ones that called people kafirs are the primary example of what polytheists are.

Let me add there is also kaffirs in every religion and sects, including among todays muslims. And there is no religion today who strictly follows monotheism(but judaism is very close to strict monotheism) and NO the muslim beleif claims to be a strict monotheism religion while it has actually made Muhammad as Gods partner. But there are people who follow a strict monotheism despite of their religion.

So, there are also muslims among the Westernes and the christians.

amuslim

Peace Maha

I think you got a very narrow-minded defination of what it means to be a christian. First of all, not all christians believe in the divinity of Jesus. Third thing, if Christians all make partners with God as you claim, Than todays muslims must be in the same category since they make excately the same claims about Muhammad. And yes God is sometimes talking about todays christians, just look at the verse warning them for believeing in the divinity of jesus.

First point you made. If you read what I wrote and understood it, you should not have gotten that assumption. I clearly stated that not all Christians were alike.

Second point. When did Muslims ever say Muhammad was God? This is the claim of Trinitarian Christians, making a creation a partner with God.

Third point. Who exactly is being addressed in the Qur'an when God mentions about the Trinity? You seem to be confusing the usage of the word Christian here. God doesn't say the word Christian at all in the Qur'an. The Nazarenes were a Jewish sect of people that followed Christ's message and never worshiped Jesus. They would have been considered heretics to the Church. Similarly, we Muslims follow the same message that Jesus gave. Majority of modern day Christians do not. They do not follow the fundamental teaching of Jesus despite the clarity of his words in their own man-made book.

Let me add there is also kaffirs in every religion and sects, including among todays muslims. And there is no religion today who strictly follows monotheism(but judaism is very close to strict monotheism) and NO the muslim beleif claims to be a strict monotheism religion while it has actually made Muhammad as Gods partner. But there are people who follow a strict monotheism despite of their religion.

So, there are also muslims among the Westernes and the christians.

Kafir is someone that covers up the truth and disbelieves. I wasn't saying that all people are kafirs but that the European Christians proselytize their faith to indigenous people (many of whom were Submitters already) and forced them to leave their path and follow the polytheistic Christian belief. For example the native american peoples. African peoples, etc.

It is simple. You either believe in the unity of God or you don't. 1+1+1 = 1 is not going to cut it. You can't be a Trinitarian Christian and try and fool people that it is monotheistic. I already gave an example of someone using Muhammad in the same way the Christians use Jesus. It will never be accepted by God. Have you even read the Qur'an? All of what I am saying is not my words, it is from the Qur'an itself.

Peace

Jafar

Second point. When did Muslims ever say Muhammad was God?

I already gave an example of someone using Muhammad in the same way the Christians use Jesus. It will never be accepted by God.

The sunnis and shiites (and other Muhammedans group) actually consider Muhammad 'higher' than God.
Although it's 'subtle' and not exactly 'verbose'...

Some of the examples are

In the sirah+hadiths there are many examples of "God" nullified his Judgement and/or act in accordance to Muhammad's wishes. The most infamous story are the 'bargaining for rakaah' process..
Their comprehension of 'shalawat' as glorifying and adoration (towards Muhammad) and they said that God and His angels also performing 'shalawat' as thus adoration and glorification to Muhammad (which is a twist from Quran verse)

Nevertheless I never judge the sunnis and shiites or any other Muhammedans group as 'forbidden from heaven' or 'shall be cursed to hell'.. And I'm applying the same view to those who worship other (dead) people such as Jesus.

What they're doing is practically the same... dead people worshiping

I refrain myself from doing such gross act.. yet I didn't label them as 'kuffar' or 'cursed to hell' either.. as it's not my place and/or authority to judge...

To me
It's not a problem when somebody worship a stone, as long as he's not enforcing that belief to me OR
Throwing that stone at me!! Now that's a big problem..!!

Salam / Peace

Maha

Peace Maha

First point you made. If you read what I wrote and understood it, you should not have gotten that assumption. I clearly stated that not all Christians were alike.

Second point. When did Muslims ever say Muhammad was God? This is the claim of Trinitarian Christians, making a creation a partner with God.

Third point. Who exactly is being addressed in the Qur'an when God mentions about the Trinity? You seem to be confusing the usage of the word Christian here. God doesn't say the word Christian at all in the Qur'an. The Nazarenes were a Jewish sect of people that followed Christ's message and never worshiped Jesus. They would have been considered heretics to the Church. Similarly, we Muslims follow the same message that Jesus gave. Majority of modern day Christians do not. They do not follow the fundamental teaching of Jesus despite the clarity of his words in their own man-made book.

Kafir is someone that covers up the truth and disbelieves. I wasn't saying that all people are kafirs but that the European Christians proselytize their faith to indigenous people (many of whom were Submitters already) and forced them to leave their path and follow the polytheistic Christian belief. For example the native american peoples. African peoples, etc.

It is simple. You either believe in the unity of God or you don't. 1+1+1 = 1 is not going to cut it. You can't be a Trinitarian Christian and try and fool people that it is monotheistic. I already gave an example of someone using Muhammad in the same way the Christians use Jesus. It will never be accepted by God. Have you even read the Qur'an? All of what I am saying is not my words, it is from the Qur'an itself.

Peace

I dont see any quranic references in your words. So no you are talking from your mind, you are not reciting the quran. Have you even read the Quran?

Many muslims have imposed and forced people to accept Islam as well during all their islamic crusades.

Well if you cant be a muslim while believing in the trinity, than you cant be a muslim and believe in the hadiths as well. You seem to limit the belief in God according to your own understanding.

Peace

Bigmo

The only real difference between the Koran and mainstream Christianity is the Trinity. Islam and Judaism has many differences with the Koran because of the influence of the Talmud and Sunnah.

The Trinity is somewhat of a mystery as nobody has been able to explain it. But there is no real difference between the Koran and unitarian Christians. I think most Christians are confused about it and do not understand it themselves.

We do know this. Whatever you imagine God to be and have an image in your mind of Him is not Him.

Maha

What is true religion?

Strict monotheism (Surah 30.30)
Who are Strict Monotheist, and what are the characteristics of pure worship?

They worship only God, And do not put one prophet above another (Deuteronomy 6,4 and Surah 4719, 384,144)

They do not have idols, human or otherwise (Exodus 204, surah 12106, Surah 1620,21 3130, 464,5

They give to the poor, try to do what is right, and ask for forgiveness Nehamiah 917 Surah 3133-135 4106,110 and 2422

Allah, the Arabic word for God refers to these monotheist, his true servants as ??Believers?? nearly 200 times in the Quran

God does no change Malakias 36 Surah 3362

Those who fabricates false prohibitions and attribute them to God are truly wicked

IMHO

The problem with many new Koranist who come from a Sunni/Shia background is that they still have many aspects of sectarian Islam in them. They don't understand that it takes some time before the Sunni/Shia influence fades from them. They talk in many ways just like a salafi does. They come from a background where kufr, haram and shirk are used generously and they assume that the Koran sees it that way when in reality it does not.

Salaam Bigmo

You should also mention those who, in their attempt to rid themselves of their sectarian past feel a need to criticise and mock mainstream muslims and to demonstrate the perceived irrelevance of prophet Muhammad to 'liberate' themselves. Freeminders rather than the Qur'an has become their source of guidance, and they engage in endless vain talk, which is frowned upon in the Quran. They think they are scholars and give fatwas about others now. on December 07, 2011, 050359 AM ? You are still doomed to hell
Here is an excerpt form Maha's post above I have been passive learning and reading freeminders for years although i never debated, because I did not considered myself to possess so much knowledge at that time. But now I think that I have learned enough from freeminds now that I can actually engage in debates. His/er posts shows standard of knowledge aquired from freeminds. (

Sadly due to such bickering members the free-minds site is becoming more of a gossip corner than a forum for healthy exchange and because of this I'm reluctant to recommend free-minds to seekers.
peace

Maha

Salaam Bigmo

You should also mention those who, in their attempt to rid themselves of their sectarian past feel a need to criticise and mock mainstream muslims and to demonstrate the perceived irrelevance of prophet Muhammad to 'liberate' themselves. Freeminders rather than the Qur'an has become their source of guidance, and they engage in endless vain talk, which is frowned upon in the Quran. They think they are scholars and give fatwas about others now. on December 07, 2011, 050359 AM ? You are still doomed to hell
Here is an excerpt form Maha's post above I have been passive learning and reading freeminders for years although i never debated, because I did not considered myself to possess so much knowledge at that time. But now I think that I have learned enough from freeminds now that I can actually engage in debates. His/er posts shows standard of knowledge aquired from freeminds. (

Sadly due to such bickering members the free-minds site is becoming more of a gossip corner than a forum for healthy exchange and because of this I'm reluctant to recommend free-minds to seekers.
peace

Yes IMHO. The freeminder translation of the quran has been very helpful for me as well as many of their articles.

Peace

amuslim

Peace

The sunnis and shiites (and other Muhammedans group) actually consider Muhammad 'higher' than God.
Although it's 'subtle' and not exactly 'verbose'...

Some of the examples are

In the sirah+hadiths there are many examples of "God" nullified his Judgement and/or act in accordance to Muhammad's wishes. The most infamous story are the 'bargaining for rakaah' process..
Their comprehension of 'shalawat' as glorifying and adoration (towards Muhammad) and they said that God and His angels also performing 'shalawat' as thus adoration and glorification to Muhammad (which is a twist from Quran verse)

Nevertheless I never judge the sunnis and shiites or any other Muhammedans group as 'forbidden from heaven' or 'shall be cursed to hell'.. And I'm applying the same view to those who worship other (dead) people such as Jesus.

What they're doing is practically the same... dead people worshiping

I refrain myself from doing such gross act.. yet I didn't label them as 'kuffar' or 'cursed to hell' either.. as it's not my place and/or authority to judge...

To me
It's not a problem when somebody worship a stone, as long as he's not enforcing that belief to me OR
Throwing that stone at me!! Now that's a big problem..!!

Salam / Peace

Neither am I condemning, I am just saying what God says. Similarly, I can be punished for whatever wrong doings I have done. Worshiping in another deity besides God from what I understand does not mean eternal punishment, it just means that there will be punishment. However severe it is up to God as God knows us each individually.

I am also aware of what you are talking about regarding Shia and Sunni. While it is true, they still do not place Muhammad above God. They make a clear distinction that the two are different. Whether God changed the required 5000 rakahs (I think that's the number) because Muhammad pleaded or not, that still doesn't mean that God obeyed Muhammad.

I agree with the stone thing. The only reason I said anything is because some people here are promulgating that polytheists are safe from God's punishment, when the Qur'an says the opposite.

I dont see any quranic references in your words. So no you are talking from your mind, you are not reciting the quran. Have you even read the Quran?

Many muslims have imposed and forced people to accept Islam as well during all their islamic crusades.

Well if you cant be a muslim while believing in the trinity, than you cant be a muslim and believe in the hadiths as well. You seem to limit the belief in God according to your own understanding.

Peace

Pickthall Translation
They surely disbelieve who say Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. (72) They surely disbelieve who say Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. (73) Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (74) The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away! (75)

How much simpler can it get? You are saying that what I said is full of conjecture, why do you not look at yourself? If you believe a certain way then God commands you to bring proof. If you have no proof then it is best to remain silent and ask questions for my reasoning.

Believing in Hadiths (I don't) is not equal to deifying Christ. It's a corrupted form of Islam the religion, no doubt, but it is nowhere close to the polytheism that Trinitarians practice.

As far as Muslims forcing others to be Muslim, that is against the Quran. God states that "There is no compulsion in religion." Those people will be punished for their sins as well. However, we are speaking only about polytheists here (Trinitarians), so lets try not to derail the topic. I only brought that part up to show you that Christians claim to be Monotheists but they go to native peoples and force them into their Polytheistic ways.

Peace

Jafar

I am also aware of what you are talking about regarding Shia and Sunni. While it is true, they still do not place Muhammad above God. They make a clear distinction that the two are different. Whether God changed the required 5000 rakahs (I think that's the number) because Muhammad pleaded or not, that still doesn't mean that God obeyed Muhammad.

You make no remarks regarding the "God and His angels does shalawat to Mohammad" in accordance to Mohammedans belief.
And according to the Mohammedans, the reasons why people need to do 'shalawat' towards Mohammad is because Mohammad shall save them during the judgement day.

How's that not being considered as putting Muhammad as equal or above God??

Take a quick survey, attend the friday prayer at your local Mohammedan's mosque.. and during the sermon count how many times 'Muhammad' / 'Rasullullah' get mentioned and how many times 'God' / 'Allah' get mentioned..
I've done such survey few years ago.. the average stat was 14.. 1 Allah 4 Muhammad..

Take a look at the caligraphy in Muhammedans mosque... there's Allah on the right and Muhammad on the left...

I agree with the stone thing. The only reason I said anything is because some people here are promulgating that polytheists are safe from God's punishment, when the Qur'an says the opposite.

Well to be truly objective, the Quran does mentioned another form of 'polytheist' which is 'putting the imam/priest as their Rabb/Lord', which fit perfectly well with common Muhammedans too!!

As thus.. IF.. praying for trinitarians is forbidden because they're 'polytheist' so does praying for muhammedans.. since muhammedans can also be considered as 'polytheist'..
We need to apply the same standard right?

On day to day.. practical level.. this is very difficult... as we need to inquire people belief before praying for them.. 'do you believe in trinity? or do you believe that Muhammad shall save you on judgement day? or do you believe in ijma ulema can abrogate the Quran? or do you believe in hadith??" because if you said yes to any of those.. Sorry.. I can't pray for you... tough luck mate...

As such.. I would stick to YES.. we can pray for any of our friends.. regardless of their belief.. (christians, muhammedans whatever) And it doesn't matter anyway.. since it's up to God to decide whether to grant our prayer or not...

As far as Muslims forcing others to be Muslim, that is against the Quran. God states that "There is no compulsion in religion." Those people will be punished for their sins as well. However, we are speaking only about polytheists here (Trinitarians), so lets try not to derail the topic. I only brought that part up to show you that Christians claim to be Monotheists but they go to native peoples and force them into their Polytheistic ways.

Trinity get its root from 'three faces' of God found within Hinduism and also Ancient Egyptians..

It was a hellenistic Jews named Philo from Alexandria who came up with this 'three in one' hypothesis.. looks like he tried to combine Ancient Egyptians triune main deities (Osiris, Isis and Horus) with Jewish monotheism..

And it was in Egypt the 'messianic Jews' got their first stronghold and flourish... as thus the Egyptian influence are being carried forward throughout generations..

Having said that.. not all christians belief in 'trinity' and even for those who do.. the exact details of 'trinity' are widely varied.

Salam / Peace

amuslim

Peace Jafar

You make no remarks regarding the "God and His angels does shalawat to Mohammad" in accordance to Mohammedans belief.
And according to the Mohammedans, the reasons why people need to do 'shalawat' towards Mohammad is because Mohammad shall save them during the judgement day.

How's that not being considered as putting Muhammad as equal or above God??

Take a quick survey, attend the friday prayer at your local Mohammedan's mosque.. and during the sermon count how many times 'Muhammad' / 'Rasullullah' get mentioned and how many times 'God' / 'Allah' get mentioned..
I've done such survey few years ago.. the average stat was 14.. 1 Allah 4 Muhammad..

Take a look at the caligraphy in Muhammedans mosque... there's Allah on the right and Muhammad on the left...

I take the shalawat on a more extreme level on how Muslims great peace to the past prophets. They are dead, but they still offer words of peace. Now they send their supplications and include Muhammad and Ahl Al-Bayt for whatever reasons are ridiculous, but you cannot equate them with what Christians do. It is not close. While they may put their efforts and prayers through/to Muhammad, they do not blatantly worship him.

It's simple. Ask Muslims if Muhammad is God. They say no. Ask Christians if Jesus is God. They say yes. If Christians pray to Jesus and ask for his intercession, but do not worship Jesus as God, they are not polytheists like the majority of their Trinitarian brothers.

As far as the mosques are concern, are you referring to the Shahadah?

Well to be truly objective, the Quran does mentioned another form of 'polytheist' which is 'putting the imam/priest as their Rabb/Lord', which fit perfectly well with common Muhammedans too!!

As thus.. IF.. praying for trinitarians is forbidden because they're 'polytheist' so does praying for muhammedans.. since muhammedans can also be considered as 'polytheist'..
We need to apply the same standard right?

On day to day.. practical level.. this is very difficult... as we need to inquire people belief before praying for them.. 'do you believe in trinity? or do you believe that Muhammad shall save you on judgement day? or do you believe in ijma ulema can abrogate the Quran? or do you believe in hadith??" because if you said yes to any of those.. Sorry.. I can't pray for you... tough luck mate...

As such.. I would stick to YES.. we can pray for any of our friends.. regardless of their belief.. (christians, muhammedans whatever) And it doesn't matter anyway.. since it's up to God to decide whether to grant our prayer or not...

I am not arguing with anything you are saying. Qur'an also talks about people that take money as a god. I am simply commenting on polytheist Christians because the Qur'an addresses them. I am conveying the message that God gave us, not my own. Why should we start making exceptions and try and change God's Word (not you, but anyone that tries to do so)?

Trinity get its root from 'three faces' of God found within Hinduism and also Ancient Egyptians..

It was a hellenistic Jews named Philo from Alexandria who came up with this 'three in one' hypothesis.. looks like he tried to combine Ancient Egyptians triune main deities (Osiris, Isis and Horus) with Jewish monotheism..

And it was in Egypt the 'messianic Jews' got their first stronghold and flourish... as thus the Egyptian influence are being carried forward throughout generations..

Having said that.. not all christians belief in 'trinity' and even for those who do.. the exact details of 'trinity' are widely varied.

Salam / Peace

I shouldve been more clear when talking about Trinitarians, thank you brother. When I refer to Trinitarian Christians, I am talking of those that claim Jesus is God, equal with the Father. Jehovahs Witness are a good example that believe in a similar Trinity but do not associate Jesus as God.

In conclusion, there really is no argument with this issue. It isn't my opinion, it is what God tells us. If people wish to take some parts of the Quran and reject others because they don't like what God says, that's their prerogative and will be judged accordingly, as well I. If I were to put my own emotions into the issue, I would have said a similar statement as Maha. I use my evidence from Qur'an, not my subjective emotions. Then again, God knows us better than we know ourselves.

Peace

hamzamutlu

Ask Muslims if Muhammad is God. They say no. Ask Christians if Jesus is God. They say yes.

Equally important Ask Muslims if Jesus is prophet. They say yes. Ask Christians if Muhammad is prophet. They say no.

In Islam, kufr (disbelief) is almost as great as a sin as shirk. Therefore monoteist christians will also go to hell. Believing in Allah is only possible by believing in ALL his prophets, books ... etc. Plz read the ayats below

291 When they are told, "You shall believe in these revelations of GOD," they say, "We believe only in what was sent down to us." Thus, they disbelieve in subsequent revelations, even if it is the truth from their Lord, and even though it confirms what they have! Say, "Why then did you kill GOD's prophets, if you were believers?"

568 Say, "O people of the scripture, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.

As for sunnis, their taking hadith as a source of religion is based on their interpretition of Quran. They believe that obeying messenger is obeying his words (hadith). But they carefully eliminate fake hadith by checking its contradiction with Quran. Although I don't agree with them, still what they are doing is not shirk. Mentioning Mohammad's name in mosques isn't shirk either, since mentioning his name is not worshipping to him.

peace

Bigmo

Equally important Ask Muslims if Jesus is prophet. They say yes. Ask Christians if Muhammad is prophet. They say no.

In Islam, kufr (disbelief) is almost as great as a sin as shirk. Therefore monoteist christians will also go to hell. Believing in Allah is only possible by believing in ALL his prophets, books ... etc. Plz read the ayats below

291 When they are told, "You shall believe in these revelations of GOD," they say, "We believe only in what was sent down to us." Thus, they disbelieve in subsequent revelations, even if it is the truth from their Lord, and even though it confirms what they have! Say, "Why then did you kill GOD's prophets, if you were believers?"

568 Say, "O people of the scripture, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.

As for sunnis, their taking hadith as a source of religion is based on their interpretition of Quran. They believe that obeying messenger is obeying his words (hadith). But they carefully eliminate fake hadith by checking its contradiction with Quran. Although I don't agree with them, still what they are doing is not shirk. Mentioning Mohammad's name in mosques isn't shirk either, since mentioning his name is not worshipping to him.

peace

That is not completely true as Muslims believe Muhammad has divine authority. The Sunnah gave Muhammad divine authority. Authority that in the Koran is reserved to God only. This authority can then be transfered to the Musim ruler. That is one of the reasons why the Sunnah came. The Koran gave Muhamad limited authority and gave absolute authority to God only.

Plus most Christians will tell you Jesus is the son of God but would not exactly know how to explain that.

Finally Sunnis and Shias do not use the Koran to check out fake hadith. One of the goals of the Sunnah is to do away with the Koran. That is the whole point.

10.15. But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them, those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, Say "Bring us a reading other than this, or change this," Say "It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it I follow naught but what is revealed unto me if I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear the penalty of a Great Day (to come)."

Here the pagans asked Muhamamd to alter the Koran or to come with another Koran and Muhammad told them that he does not have such authority. So the sunnah came to finish the job that Muhamad refused to do.

Authority of the Sunnah

Definition of the Sunnah, and the History of the Sunnah, and the Efforts of the Scholars in verifying the Sunnah.

For the above issues, please see the following article The Sunnah.

One thing that must be mentioned here is that many Muslims get confused between the general term of Sunnah, which includes all the sayings and actions of the Prophet, and between the term Sunnah when used in fiqh issues where it means "recommended". For example, since the Prophet used to pray 2 rak'at before fajr prayer, we say that it is Sunnah for us to pray these 2 rak'at, which means that it is recommended to pray these 2 rak'at and not obligatory.

In this article we are discussing the Sunnah in the general sense, and not in the fiqh sense. We are talking about the Sunnah as a source of Islamic legislation. Therefore, when we say it is obligatory to follow the Sunnah, we are talking about the Prophets commands for us in the Sunnah and not about the recommended actions such as the 2 rak'at before fajr for example. Please make sure that you understand the difference here.

What does the Authority of the Sunnah mean?

In Arabic, the wording is Hojjiyat As-Sunnah. This basically means that the Sunnah can be used as evidence in Shariah, and that Allah (swt) has ordered us to follow the Sunnah and avoid anything it has prohibited for us. In other words, this means that it is obligatory on every Muslim to believe in what the Sunnah tells us, and to act according to the Sunnah in all aspects of our life and ensure that we do not commit any actions that contradict the Sunnah.

The Sunnah and it's place in relation to the Holy Qur'an

The Sunnah can be divided into three parts

Confirming Sunnah. This is the part of the Sunnah that confirms what is in the Qur'an, and reinforces it.

Explanatory Sunnah. This part of the Sunnah explains the holy Qur'an and the various Shariah injunctions that come in the holy Qur'an. It includes four parts expanding on what is mentioned only briefly in the holy Qur'an, explaining difficult verses or issues, putting limits on general statements in the Qur'an and finally specifying generalities in the Qur'an.

Sunnah that brings new legislation. This part of the Sunnah is the one that brings new legislation, and new Shariah that is not in the holy Qur'an.

http//www.al-islami.com/islam/authority_of_sunnah.php

Of course there is another criteria that they don't mention is the Sunnah can abrogate the Koranic verses. Apostasy law (Ridda) is a very good example of that.