How to worship, scriptures for Qur'an only
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So your entire point is that Allah is the name of God and not YHWH... Even though God has hundreds of names you are singling out YHWH as a name that in your eyes, God cannot be called by. Okay I thought your point was something more complex than that originally but it is simply that YHWH is not God's proper name so in attributing that NAME to God you are associating others with Allah? There's no logic in that. I am pondering where you're coming from which is why I produced those verses supporting your viewpoint but your argument is more elementary and basic than I thought it was. All you have to say is that YHWH is not His proper name... But Allah literally has hundreds or thousands of names in many different tongues so your point in my opinion is entirely moot. In fact he has 100 names in Arabic alone. That's like saying Jesus is not really Isa because his Hebrew name was Yashua and so the name Jesus does not describe the Prophet Isa correctly.
If your argument was based on scripture I kind of understood that but if all you have to say is "YHWH is not his name Allah is!" then I have nothing further to say.
Wow, I spoke very clear english and went through all that trouble explaining myself and all you got out of that was that you think I'm just dealing with a name?
I have nothing more to say to you lol if you can't grasp simple concept that the Jews god YHWH is different than Allah you'll never grasp the point being addressed here. Of course Allah has multiple names. Is Baal one of them? No, because we know that was a pagan god. So if a person says they worship Baal, they are not worshipping Allah. It's the same with YHWH, if they say they are worshipping YHWH, then they are not worshipping Allah, because YHWH is not the same being as Allah, though the Jews have credited the works of Allah to YHWH in the scriptures that they written with their own hands.
I don't know how to be much clearer. It's really not that difficult to comprehend.
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Wow, I spoke very clear english and went through all that trouble explaining myself and all you got out of that was that you think I'm just dealing with a name?
I have nothing more to say to you lol if you can't grasp simple concept that the Jews god YHWH is different than Allah you'll never grasp the point being addressed here. Of course Allah has multiple names. Is Baal one of them? No, because we know that was a pagan god. So if a person says they worship Baal, they are not worshipping Allah. It's the same with YHWH, if they say they are worshipping YHWH, then they are not worshipping Allah, because YHWH is not the same being as Allah, though the Jews have credited the works of Allah to YHWH in the scriptures that they written with their own hands.
I don't know how to be much clearer. It's really not that difficult to comprehend.
Except the problem is though the Bible claims these works in the name of YHWH (and also other names like Jehovah and Elohim can you address that?) the Qur'an CONFIRMS these same works in the name of Allah and makes it CLEAR that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the same God revealing Himself to Muhammad.
Are you telling me that when the Qur'an mentions Ar-Rahman that that's a different God than Allah? I mean they do have different names!
When the Qur'an mentions Maliki-Yaumi-Deen it must be a different God! As well as Ar-Rahim, Al-Adl', Al-Malik, Al-Hakam, Al-Haqq, Al-Awwal, Al-Akhir, Al-Batin, and Az-Zahir.
By your logic the Qur'an must be talking about almost a hundred different gods!
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Except the problem is though the Bible claims these works in the name of YHWH (and also other names like Jehovah and Elohim can you address that?) the Qur'an CONFIRMS these same works in the name of Allah and makes it CLEAR that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the same God revealing Himself to Muhammad.
Are you telling me that when the Qur'an mentions Ar-Rahman that that's a different God than Allah? I mean they do have different names!
When the Qur'an mentions Maliki-Yaumi-Deen it must be a different God! As well as Ar-Rahim, Al-Adl', Al-Malik, Al-Hakam, Al-Haqq, Al-Awwal, Al-Akhir, Al-Batin, and Az-Zahir.
By your logic the Qur'an must be talking about almost a hundred different gods!
<b></b>I have nothing more to say to you about the matter. I explained my self clear and you go and twist everything I said due to you not being able to comprehend something so simple. You're even naive enough to think that the Bible, a book written clearly by man, is the same previous scriptures that Qur'an confirms. I don't know what part of the Jews wrote their own scriptures aka the Old Testament you don't understand. Since they are it's authors, the Old Testament obviously cannot be the true previous scriptures the Qur'an is talking about, for the true Torah (which no longer exist) was a revelation from Allah, not a book written by man like the Old Testament. You don't even have the knwoledge to realize that Jehovah and YHWH is the same name. I explained Elohim being a cognate of Allah in a previous post if only you would read and ponder on what I said instead of trying to be critical and objective. Remain in your ignorance and thoughts.
I seek refuge in Allah from the ignorant.
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Salaam,
Let me apologize for that previous post. I was a bit aggravated at the time I posted it and for some reason it won't let me edit the post.
I know the information I am presenting could be hard to fully understand because its different than anything presented before, but I guarantee you I only present it after having a strong conviction of its truth with evidence to support it. Right now I am at work but insha'Allah I will post a new topic on the subject with in depth details and evidence when I get back home. I'm sorry for straying away from the original topic of this post.
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Peace & Welcome peace group
Part 1 Allah(ه and YHWH (ה
*Allah(ه and YHWH (ה are the same god, just different names. Allah is probably made up of the arabic AL-ILAH (ه, "The god". YHWH, as a name might mean "the one who exists", as it's similar to Hebrew Expression, which is said by God Almighty himself in the Torah, when Moses asked him about HIS name, as "Ehyah ashr Ehyah" (I am who I am/will be) (Hebrew ה(Transliterated as AhYH ASR AhYH) Notice how the ending of AhYH () is similar to the begining of of YHWH (ה.
(ה means to "be/exist, and thus it can be concluded that the name YHWH(ה, can mean "I am who Exist/will be"
http//ha-shem.followersofyah.com/B-Earl-Allen/chapter_08.htm
Moreover, there is a shortened/poetic form of the name YHWH(ה, which is simply YH(ה, pronounced YAH,(Psalm 684) as in Hallelu-Yah (praise God).
This shorted form has been included in MANY names of the bible, and also cited in some names of the Quran. (Note Names have meanings) (Zakar-YAH ) = YAH (God Remembered). Eliyas(س equivalent to Hebrew Eliyahu (ו = My God is YAH).
Thus it can be said that the name is indeed correct, and not fabricated, because it has been cited in all scriptures (The NT Mentions it in the Aramaic Version)
As a note, this is just one of God's Glorious Names, there are also other names in the Bible for God, as El Shaddai (God Almighty, Elyon (God Most High), etc*Consider the fact that 11 states that "With/In the Name of Allah". This can mean that Allah is actually a title, like the Hebrew "Eloah "(God). There is also Allahom(م, which is the cognate of the Hebrew Plural-of-respect of Eloah(god), Eloahim(ם.
English God -----------------------------------
Aramaic Alaha ------------------------
Hebrew Eloah ---------------------------
Arabic allah --------------------------------[A-L-L-HSources
http//ha-shem.followersofyah.com/B-Earl-Allen/index.htm
http//www.jews-for-allah.org/
http//www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/YHWH.htmlPart 2 SALAT
Salat Positions
In Some matters (as salat and homosexuality), God Almighty does not come out and state explicitly of the commandment, but he does give us example of how people did them. There is no commandment that stipulates that man should not llie down with man in the Quran, just like the Torah stipulates. Nevertheless, we do have an example of Lot's people, who, by their doing (homosexuality), were transgressing. And so, if anyone today is still committing homosexuality, They would logically also be trangressing as per (781)
Similarly, There is no prescribed Step-by-step way of doing the salat in the Quran. nevertheless, we do have example of how people did them.
Now there can actually be 3 positions of SalatZakarYAH Standing doing his salat (339)
Believers do their salat while bowing/kneeling (555)
Muhammed Ending his Salat by Prostrating (4102)Moreover, the sole purpose of Doing the salat is to remember God Almighty (2014), and not the quantity of bowing/kneeling.
Thus, one can conclude that most of the duration of the salat is spend during standing position, and the bowing/kneeling position, and that there has to be 1 prostration, because that is the end of our salat as per 4102.***For the Bowing/Kneeling position, some translate Rk3 ( ), as bowing, and some translate it as kneeling.
We can get a glimps of this position as David "fell down" and did his rkoo3" in 3824, and also, solomon, "fell down", as the animal ate his staff when he was dead 3414.
***Thus Rk3 (ع has to be come about from a position of high potential (e.g standing), into a position of low potential (e.g bowing/kneeling)The Manners of Salat
*We should try to Remember God Almighty as much as possible during Salat, as it is its Sole purpose (2014)
*We should do our salat in a state of Reverance/Devoutness (223
*Good news is anounced to those who do their salat in a humble manner (232),
*We should not do our salat Heedlessly (1054-5), or in a state of intoxication, where we're heedless of what we're saying (443)How Many daily salats(prayers) are there?
The Quran is not missing anything (63. We find that there are only 3 names of Salats in the Quran, (i.e Fajr, Esha, Wusta (2458 & 223). This means that there has to be only 3 Salats. This is because the Quran states that it is not missing anything (63, and so, if there is 3 NAMES of Salats mentioned, then logically, there has to be only 3 Salats.
The Daily Prayers were always done 3 times a day (Salat = Aramaic 'sloota' (Prayer) and Hebrew Tfillah/Amidah (standing prayer)
Which is basically the 3 daily prayers evening, morning, and noon (see psalm 5517, Daniel 610)
New Testament's 3 times for prayer 3rth, 6th, and 9th hours,
The Quran's 3 names of Salat (Fajr, Esha, Wusta in 2458 and 223Three Salat (Prayers) Authorised in the Quran
http//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/number_of_salat_(P1200).html
Support for a middle salat (i.e 3rd salat)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603015.0As a scriptural background
Salat is equivilant of the Aramaic 'sloota' (Prayer) and the Hebrew Tfillah (prayer) or Amidah (standing prayer) Which is basically the 3 daily prayers evening, morning, and noon (see psalm 5517, Daniel 610, and the New Testament's times for prayer 3rth, 6th, and 9th hours, all of which shadow the Quran's 3 names of prayer (Dawn, evening, and middle prayer Quran 2458 and 223
Some Jews and Samaritans today still pray 3 daily prayers
Watch even the "Jewish salat", and you can find the descriptions of the prayer from the Talmud & the laws concerning prayer
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aHWASyMjwgRecommended Articles
God's System of Righteousness (The Reward system for those who are nice/do Good)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602900
~ God's Unconnditional servants ~
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603053
7 "Hells", 2 Heavens, and a "Purgatory"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603259
Why language is irrelevant!
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603266 -
Salaam,
Let me apologize for that previous post. I was a bit aggravated at the time I posted it and for some reason it won't let me edit the post.
I know the information I am presenting could be hard to fully understand because its different than anything presented before, but I guarantee you I only present it after having a strong conviction of its truth with evidence to support it. Right now I am at work but insha'Allah I will post a new topic on the subject with in depth details and evidence when I get back home. I'm sorry for straying away from the original topic of this post.
I await your next topic with anticipation. I just don't understand why people say that the the scriptures of the Bible we have today are not the scriptures that the Qur'an mentions. Even if they are corrupted you surely aren't saying that the stories we have in today's Bible and the stories related in the Qur'an are completely separate and that today's Bible contains zero word from God whether inspired or revealed and contains zero truth? Who is qualified to say whether the true Torah still exists or not? I'm just waiting on some sort of evidence to be brought forth that
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The original Torah and Gospels referred to in the Qur'an were direct revelation to Moses and Jesus respectively just like the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad, and these revelations were recorded.
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The Torah and the Gospels of today have NOTHING to do with the originals, are not attributed to the One God, and do not contain a hint of Truth.
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When the Bible talks about God, it is not talking about God but associating others with God or when the Bible talks about God it is really talking about the devil.
Answer these questions and I will be satisfied. Because I don't disagree that the Bible we have today is not the direct word of God. It is most likely written by the scholars of the times to record their tradition. Sure maybe they didn't get everything correct. Sure they probably exaggerated parts and filled parts in with their own fallible thoughts/motives. But it's still written by people who worshipped the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and it's still written ABOUT the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Some call Him Allah, some call Him YHWH, some Elohim, and some call Him the Father. Still the same God for all intents and purposes regardless of whether they have attributed the correct properties to Him. Just because they don't have the perfect Islamic version of God means little. It's like you know your mother one way but her co-workers know her in a different way. She is a different person to each of you but she is still one person. Same concept man.
Maybe the Bible was divinely inspired maybe it wasn't. In a way you can say all actions are divinely inspired but that's another subject for another time. But that doesn't mean they worship a different God or that the Bible is suddenly devil worship I find that claim utterly ridiculous and I'd like to see what "proof" you can offer to support it.
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Do any here use Jewish or Christian ways of prayer or scriptures in their prayer or for religious guidance?
The traditional sunnis & shiites ways of praying IS the jewish and (the eastern sect) christians ways of praying..
Having said that.. Every sect tend to invent their own ways of praying to establish the 'differentiation' of themselves with others.. (sectarian arrogance), catholics praying are different with orthodox praying, orthodox praying are different with sunnis praying, sunnis praying are different with shiites praying and so on...
However, the truth is There are no 'standardized' manner / details for praying..
Albeit every sect/religion will always claim that their 'ways/method of praying' is the ONLY method of praying acceptable by God.
Some people within this forum have tried to came up with (yet another) 'standardized technical details for praying according to Quran Alone' which I believe is a mistake, as they make the same mistakes as the sectarians did who think that God only accept 'one form / format of praying'.Last but not least, we should put all this rites in the right context..
Rites are for men and not men for rites..
And there are millions of rites as there are billions of men..As saith in the Quran Do not debate on rites, yet invite them to your God..
If praying in 'christian manner' (whatever that is) is more convenient for you... if you like to recite the "Lord's prayer" as your daily prayer.. then by all means... keep on doing it!..
Salam / Peace
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Brother Jafar, awsome reply, will use it to reply to a salafi at FB
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I await your next topic with anticipation. I just don't understand why people say that the the scriptures of the Bible we have today are not the scriptures that the Qur'an mentions. Even if they are corrupted you surely aren't saying that the stories we have in today's Bible and the stories related in the Qur'an are completely separate and that today's Bible contains zero word from God whether inspired or revealed and contains zero truth? Who is qualified to say whether the true Torah still exists or not? I'm just waiting on some sort of evidence to be brought forth that
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The original Torah and Gospels referred to in the Qur'an were direct revelation to Moses and Jesus respectively just like the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad, and these revelations were recorded.
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The Torah and the Gospels of today have NOTHING to do with the originals, are not attributed to the One God, and do not contain a hint of Truth.
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When the Bible talks about God, it is not talking about God but associating others with God or when the Bible talks about God it is really talking about the devil.
Answer these questions and I will be satisfied. Because I don't disagree that the Bible we have today is not the direct word of God. It is most likely written by the scholars of the times to record their tradition. Sure maybe they didn't get everything correct. Sure they probably exaggerated parts and filled parts in with their own fallible thoughts/motives. But it's still written by people who worshipped the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and it's still written ABOUT the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Some call Him Allah, some call Him YHWH, some Elohim, and some call Him the Father. Still the same God for all intents and purposes regardless of whether they have attributed the correct properties to Him. Just because they don't have the perfect Islamic version of God means little. It's like you know your mother one way but her co-workers know her in a different way. She is a different person to each of you but she is still one person. Same concept man.
Maybe the Bible was divinely inspired maybe it wasn't. In a way you can say all actions are divinely inspired but that's another subject for another time. But that doesn't mean they worship a different God or that the Bible is suddenly devil worship I find that claim utterly ridiculous and I'd like to see what "proof" you can offer to support it.
Bible is like hadith, it is hadith. That is, a bunch of heteregeneous content. You cannot buy it all in a basket without looking. There are sublime inpirations and there are revolting things. And there is no gurantee except the reader's feel for truth. One has to judge through content and not take anything for granted.
Salaam
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People worship based on interpretations, same as Christians or any other person of faith.
Due to consensus of people the large majority of muslims follow hadith and their acts are seen as unified or inconfluence (hence similar manner of prayer)
As i said people worship based on interpretations, some as they were taught others by their new learnt knowledge. Inevitably the purpose and the intention of the act matter.
I personally don?t use Jewish or Christian ways of prayer however that being said some co-link. E.g. anyone can call on God in any way they do.
Sincerity is one aspect, but ignorance can cause people do to wrong whilst having sincere intentions of doing good. people can be harmful while not intending to. sincerity, intentions and actual deeds all interrelate.
peace.
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Bible is like hadith, it is hadith. That is, a bunch of heteregeneous content. You cannot buy it all in a basket without looking. There are sublime inpirations and there are revolting things. And there is no gurantee except the reader's feel for truth. One has to judge through content and not take anything for granted.
Salaam
Did you even read my post? No one is denying that Bible is hadith. I'm denying that the Bible does not speak of Allah. That's like saying the Sunnah of the Prophet doesn't speak about Allah because the hadith are not directly from God and hence it is attributing it's words to the devil and not God.
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Yes I read yur post, and I did not found it clear as to what you expected. I answered what I thought might be closer to what you were asking for.
If you are denying the the Bible does not speak of God, then so far so good, I would have thought that was obvious. It didn't occur to me it wasn't or that that was what you were inquiring about. It speaks of God and it also speaks of other things.
Salaam