For those who thought psychedelics was a good thing.
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Salam,
You cant make excuses for disobeying God by saying it was "pre-ordained". Read 20117-123 Adam was warned by God not to follow the Devil but they disobeyed Him and were evicted because of it. God told them as long as they obeyed Him they could stay in Paradise forever. To say Adam and God had some sort of plan for Adam to disobey to prove a point would make God a liar and would be implying Gd advocates sin and disobeying Him.
I could care less what any hadith says on the matter. The story and lesson is clear in the Quran. See also 235-37 and 727
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Salam,
You cant make excuses for disobeying God by saying it was "pre-ordained". Read 20117-123 Adam was warned by God not to follow the Devil but they disobeyed Him and were evicted because of it. God told them as long as they obeyed Him they could stay in Paradise forever. To say Adam and God had some sort of plan for Adam to disobey to prove a point would make God a liar and would be implying Gd advocates sin and disobeying Him.
I could care less what any hadith says on the matter. The story and lesson is clear in the Quran. See also 235-37 and 727
You don't have a correct understanding of the Qur'an. All is preordained and Allah never said Adam will dwell in paradise forever. Allah specifically said he was placing man on Earth before he created Adam. I provided proof in the form of verses and you reject it so with that "to you your belief and to myself mine". giveup
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Another note on psychedelics. A lot of their users have pantheistic mindsets, aka "The perciever is the same as the percieved", "Everything is in the mind". Etc, it could be that this originates with the popularisation of hinduism with LSD in the 60`s. Now there are typical "dualist" statements in hinduism aswell, but still a lot of people have favoured these pantheistic statements.
Abrahamic religion is about the "dualist" mindset. And that is that two things exist, God and his creation.
And this clearly seen in statements where God is invisible, transcendent, and the creator of everything else.
Pantheistic thought have also influenced the Quran. However wherever one finds pantheistic statements in translation, one can find a more fitting "dualist" translation. -
http//www.gnomereserve.co.uk/card%20players.jpg
More interesting facts Gnomes are usually associated with psychedelic mushrooms. Gnomes are similar to "santa claus". Gnome means "earthdweller". Gnomes are said to be miniature people, living "underground". The red prominent cheeks are probably related to satanic aspects. In the quran it is stated "do not swell your cheeks in pride".
From what I have seen of psychedelic art, it seems that a reduction of percieved size is part of the experience. That is probably related to the egoloss. The egoloss is probably the heavenly/nirvanic aspect. And satans role in it, I am not sure. But it seems to be there too.
Egoloss may very well be a regression to states beyond birth. If one does this cleanly by meditation, one meditates out spirits, and comes very close to Ruh..
And that might be related to "lower heaven".
(While egoaware state might be related to "God", the adult mind, and higher heaven).The psychedelic variant, combines this with other aspects of the drug, and this is probably why satan still is present, and spirits are present. Maybe simply because it IS a drug. So it seems a bit paradoxical.
https//www.dmt-nexus.me/Files/Images/lrsSPEC11-152JonesKatherine-Harlequin.jpg
From DMT art I can also see certain typical features related to egodeath. Because of it`s features I would say it is a satanic spirit that kills itself, symbolized by a clown, without eyes. He thinks of himself as a clown, for doing this, but it is also angelic.
In the quran the drug is given by shaytan. Doing the drug then is the spirit of shaytan. But shaytan "kills" himself, and what is left is angelic. Looking at DMT art though, and movies like Yellow Submarine, there is a lot of oddities. So it is very much like spirit-nonsense (waswas). However with closeness to the divine, the spirits are conquered to a greal deal.
Alot of users also seem to have a similar opinon, even those who have popularised the use of psyhcedelics.
Ambivalent statements can be seen from them
John Lennon "I destroyed my ego".
Terence McKenna also made an ambivalent statement about his drug use causing his braincancer.So satan must be present, because it`s not a pure and problem-free state. There is regret involved. And as you can see, even by prominent users.
Peace!
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Do you realise
a.) You have zero experience to draw from
b.) All you are doing is theorisingThis is like talking about the engineering of cars. Except that you live in the desert and have ridden camels all your life. But somehow you're an expert on the intricacies of engine mechanics based on your camel riding experience...
Psychedelics are not a direct avenue to satan. They are a medium for transmission just like TV, music, etc. People make satanic films and songs all the time. That does not mean these things are prohibited for the believers. Likewise your theory that psychedelics are the tree of knowledge has very little basis in reality although many too have hypothesised the same thing.
Of course the intoxicants debate rages. And to add to that, many of these things may or may not intoxicate. Some even sharpen the faculties.
But the quranic commandments are clear. If you wish to forbid good, that's up to you. But those who forbid good are the fuel of hellfire.A simple question I have, do you believe in the last day? How can you pronounce takfir on others if you yourself have no certitude about THE judgement?
peace
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You are babbling on as usual IAMOP. I will ignore you.
An interesting statement from a psychedelics user
"Imagine you are a rat. You live in the sewer and your only business in life is to find some trash to eat. Then one day you eat a magic piece of trash and suddenly you are in the human world, you see all the things on our human scale, our life on the surface, our knowledge, our art, our everything. But then the next day, you are back to being a rat, but you have this memory, and now you know, I am a rat, all I do is rat around, eat trash, and spread disease".
Maybe that is why he feels like a clown too, because he knows the truth of himself. Satan is a creep.
But ofcourse he is a disbeliever, so he doesn`t change his ways, and become of religious morality.
Instead ofcourse satan is in the statement of IAMOP turning religion upside down, claiming that psycehdelics are for believers, and that I am bound for hellfire for forbidding something that God has not. Creepy. (as usual, from satan). -
Simple facts
a.) You're afraid to answer really simple questions Do you believe in the last day or not?
b.) You're ignoring 443 and projecting an entire reality about which you have no idea babbling indeed
c.) No quranic support in any of these posts, pure projection
d.) Defying the command of ALLAH and declaring takfir on someone you don't even knowThankfully the truth is self-evident and plain for all to see. No I am not saying you are bound for hellfire but I am saying
{24}
Do cast into hell every ungrateful, rebellious one,
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Forbidder of good, exceeder of limits, doubterDo you like to place yourself in this category? That is your perogative. ALLAH has clearly defined limits on the usage of his bounties. Being centred in the surest of truths, there is no need to ignore anyone. Clearly you are on shaky ground.
Peace
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I`ve met many kinds of fundamentalists in my life. Ofcourse the hadithists. But also science-fundamentalists (Richard Dawkins-style). And now ofcourse IAMOP, the psychedelics-fundamentalist.
They are all creepy, and their logic mad.
I am NOT ungrateful. I am very happy to be a muslim. But we live in different worlds IAMOP, and YOU have NO idea who I AM.
You claim that these drugs have given you a lot of knowledge, but to me you seem completely clueless.
You argue as exceeding limits, are forbidding drugs, when it is indeed doing drugs.I am so happy that I live in a democracy, where such fundamentalist-thinking is not the superordinate factor.
Peace.
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Psychedelics-sects do exist.
From http//www.maps.org/news-letters/v12n1/12117stu.html
engine, but the long URL does not work if used directly. An unofficial site is http//www.csp.org/nicholas/A58.html. This Manhattan group asserts that anybody who is not a member of their church is doomed to be endlessly reincarnated in horrific hell realms. The members believe that their leader Alan Birnbaum is Jesus, and that they are the reincarnation of His disciples. Birnbaum formerly ran a Native American Church branch in New York, and had legal problems due to peyote. The public is invited to the Temple to participate in guided communion with DPT. The session occurs in a dirty room, sometimes with the gurgling sound of the toilet perpetually flushing in the background. The communicant must listen to a tape recording of excerpts from religious texts with a background soundtrack of sentimental music. Temple members advocate healthy lifestyles, and abstain from meat for moral and health reasons. The church gives guidance on nutritional healing of addictions, depression, and disease. Communion schedule and further information are found on the church web site. They published The Testimony to the Psychedelic (1981, now out-of-print).
Some interesting reading from a session here http//csp.org/nicholas/A58.html
I get the impression that it is very much like the messy enviroments of hippies, and a couch where they sit stoned. And ofcourse a lot of babble with associations to religion.
I wonder if IAMOPs place of communication is this? (humorous exaggaration).
http//img126.imageshack.us/img126/526/houstonmessapartmentslogy3.jpg
http//img234.imageshack.us/img234/240/houstonmessapartmentsloig3.jpgI knew this hippie once. His computer looked a bit like this lol. He would forget his childrens birthdays, or barely make it, arriving stoned or on pills. The same thing with the national day, funerals, everything. It`s like cheech and chong. He did understand once, on LSD, that the fly in his house was himself. So he treated this fly with great respect ever since. So if you visited him, you would have to live with that the fly would buzz around, and was prohibited to kill.
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I actually was interested in LSD at one point, when I was 17, because of all the religious connotations.
So a computer friend of mine, knew a guy.
I mostly had computer-friends at that time, and part of a "hacker"-group, called Cinefex.We made silly stuff like this http//kestra.exotica.org.uk/demo.php?id=4182
Anyway this guy, didn
t know if he could arrange LSD. But maybe if we waited, or something like that. So we did. And I got to know him a little. He also had a computer interest, so that was mostly what we talked about. Anyway I got to know him, and also because I used alcohol at that time, and was under the impression that intoxicant-culture was ok, I also used cannabis with him. Like many mystics I saw it as a way of being without-ego, or something like that. He also at one point said he believed in God, but we never really discussed it much. I also refused discussing it, because I didnt like trinity, and religious people discussing their beliefs in depth, usually led to absurdities, I believed. But it is strange, you can still be religious and do those things, in ones youth.But when I converted to Islam, I stopped entirely with intoxicants, because of the ban from God.
And a world of pain was off my shoulders. It was really great.
Years later, I read some sufism, and rumi who said that "bring the alcohol, bring the hash" or something.
And argued that "alcohol was in heaven", and "hash so strong it gives egodeath".
I decided to go out "on the city", and drank a bit of alcohol again. It was senseless though. I could see other muslims, looking strangely at me. They could recognize that I was a muslim, drinking, probably.
Me being completely brainwashed by sufism, thinking no-no-no, I am in heaven and do what I wish.
I am God, lol.
And some weeks later, I also tried hasish again. It was dark. Confusing. The first few minutes reminded me of my youth, and I could understand why I did it in the first place. But I had forgot how dumbing it is. The rest of the night was mostly as a vegetable, looking at TV.I made up my mind that these things weren`t particulary good. And later also left sufism. People who do things that are in conflict with the Quran, loving spirits, using intoxicants, making lovepoety to eachother, worshipping single individuals as God, etcetc.
Sufism was a setback, but also a part of a very difficult journey towards true monotheism. And as a part of that journey I also gained esoteric knowledge on LSD, through meditation. And rejected that aswell.
I believe that being godconscious is the best state of mind. And intoxicants reduce ones godconsciousness.
And when one reaches a state of perfection, one prefers that state, clear and aware, over any dumbing intoxicant.
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God hand was in that ended up not doing LSD, and later wholeheartedly rejected it. So much association with deep fundamental religious concepts. They do NOT get to know religious truth by this drug, and so they need already existing religion to explain it. Usually distorted religion. Also often with psychedelic statements of their own. And therefore believing in something untrue. Like pantheism, or other associations.
Maybe the beatles song "yellow submarine" in itself is a good example of what a psychedelics user, can sing about.
"We all live in a yellow submarine". It is again, submerged, underwater. The gnomes are underground, small. Alice in wonderland, falls through a whole in the ground, and meets entites similar to mushroom-users.Ofcourse since there is an angelic aspect to it, Beatles CAN sing about yellow submarine, without anyone noticably reacting. It is true that God does whatever he wishes. But spirits are not a part of the normal monotheistic mindset.
Peace.
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I just realized that I fell in love with a hippie girl in my teens, from an american TV-show, and that was the whole reason I was on that detour. Lol. So hippies and sufis have been the biggest trials of my life. Followeth them not.
Peace.
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I just realized that I fell in love with a hippie girl in my teens, from an american TV-show, and that was the whole reason I was on that detour. Lol. So hippies and sufis have been the biggest trials of my life. Followeth them not.
Peace.
Shalom,
I recommend some lectures from Eric Cartman for that. If you dont know who he is, then forget it.
PEACE
---------------- Student of Allah -
To be honest I can't relate to those experiences. I understand they are rife in the psychedelic community but clearly you are confusing the actions of disbelievers/confused ones abusing great tools with reality. What experiences
Worshipping an individual as god
Associating spirits with God as partners
SufismOn the other hand, I tended overall not to use any of these substances recreationally. Near enough every dose of any psychotropic was for one of two reasons a) to become god conscious and b) to reverse cultural/illuminati brainwashing. And likewise in 95% of all my experiences, all I had was a profound sense of appreciation for the universe, love for God alone. No spirits, no demonic entities, no elves, none of that. There is a rule that pervades existence be grateful and god will give you more (147). And that is exactly what I found hints of the greater reality of paradise to come.
For instance you'd look at each other's faces, and they were gleaming with perfection and symmetry, you would empathise with each other directly on a heart level almost as if to connect telepathically, we would play music and our minds were so relaxed that a second would feel like an hour you could hear every individual note for what it truly was a masterpiece of God. Likewise it helped me to get over many of my childhood traumas and anxieties. The worldly life absolutely pales in comparison and there is so much incentive based on these experiences to be constantly guarding against evil and striving to get into paradise. Nowadays I don't have any use for these substances my work is finished with them, one can enter samadhi relatively freely.
Likewise these substances are presently being researched for a variety of medical purposes such as treatment of PTSD, cluster headaches, chronic fatigue and a whole host of other things (research via MAPS). This is what I mean by forbidding good I presume by what you are saying here that you have not experienced the types of horrific suffering that psychedelics can relieve. As a person who has, let me tell you to please refrain from projecting. It is like telling a cancer patient to cheer up. Well intentioned but totally missing the point.
Peace
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Psychedelics-users tend to romantizite it alot. People who kill themselves on a trip, (and newsstories about this are everywhere, and occurs every now and then)
are said to be "predisposed" etc. They were crazy to begin with. But the guy who had a negative experience, actually killed himself on drugs. From what I can see from these news-stories there is nothing "predisposed" here. I am really tired of people always presenting these things as if they are the greatest thing ever. I see people writing about Beach Boys, and that LSD positively affected their music. And where is Brian Wilson now? He has schizo-affective disorder.
I can almost hear you say "predisposed". But you know the friend I talked about earlier, he is psychotic too.
If you read between the lines on a lot of drugreports, the guy who did the most drugs, are most likely the one with the mental issues.
There are several reports about people going completely out of their minds, and ending up in hospital.No.. it`s a drug. Satan is promiscuous, and the hippies were promiscuous, and talk about LSD as "spiritual".
"Been a naughty girl and let her nickers down" - "I am the walrus"- Beatles, LSD fueled text.And that MAPS thing is a joke. Psychedelics for Treatment of PTSD. Lol. Cluster headaches.. They are just using holes in the law. LSD for cluster headaches, how stupid can you get. Chronic fatigue, if something is true, the longtime user of drug, usually is quite tired.
The most known about MAPS is that they use drugs to help fear associated with death. But hey, religion does that, WITHOUT drugs.And that play on emotions in the last of you post, THAT is truly horrific. Now go and sell your LSD to cancer patients. PS My dad died of this.
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This entire thread is stupid, unneccessary, and lacks any real scholarship. It is all theories and conjecture and the starter of this thread has no experience with the things he is talking about so everything he says on the topic should be void.
I don't promote drug use, but as for specifically marijuana it is NOT a drug or evil thing to use, nor is it an intoxicant. Neither is poyote and mushrooms. They all grow from the Earth naturally and saying this nonsense about their use is like saying Allah made a mistake in Their creation.
DMT is a natural occuring chemical in all living things, including us. How then could it possibly be bad or an intoxicant? Are you saying when you dream you are actually becoming intoxicated? Because it is DMT that causes you to dream.
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It`s good to see you here, so that our readers can get a clear idea of that the word gnosis, may be used by COMPLETELY different people. Ofcourse when I am talking about gnosis, it has nothing to do with your nick. You associate it with "demiurge", "gnostics" (as in the religion associated with the demiurge) etc. I am talking about real experience of God. It is you who is stupid, unneccessary, and lacks any real scholarship. Lol anyone who thinks demiurge has got something so with anything real, is ofcourse void in all he says.
I
m going to ignore the potheads. And LSD users arent just killing themselves. They are killing others.I think the whole morality of my research is summed up in Terence McKennas ambivalence to his own drug use, when he found out he was to die. He would rather have lived a real life.
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Consider that we all get "real experience of God" 24/7. Every day is a "real experience of God". There is not a single moment when you are not experiencing "The light of the heavens and earth" (2435).
The advantage of substances is that they allow rapid access to slow-wave brain states just as say sugar allows rapid access to body energy release.
All you have to go by are the examples of various personalities. Ironically you deride them as failures in some way or other but let's remember these were all highly successful people in their respective fields. The Beach Boys, the Beatles? World class. Even Terence Mckenna is a well-known & established character. And for every great character there will always be many haters. But do the haters ever remotely come close to the standard of achievement of those they deride? I think not!
My question is very simple. If you do not believe in the last day by your own admission, how can you pronounce takfir on anyone? And why are you so afraid to answer this very simple question!
Peace
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Yes, explain away that. Lol, you are creeps. There is a LOT of creeps in this forum, incessantly babbling away, drowning true signal in noise.
If free-minds had a mind, you would be banned. But instead I guess, I will remove myself from this abusive intoxicant sect.
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It`s good to see you here, so that our readers can get a clear idea of that the word gnosis, may be used by COMPLETELY different people. Ofcourse when I am talking about gnosis, it has nothing to do with your nick. You associate it with "demiurge", "gnostics" (as in the religion associated with the demiurge) etc. I am talking about real experience of God. It is you who is stupid, unneccessary, and lacks any real scholarship. Lol anyone who thinks demiurge has got something so with anything real, is ofcourse void in all he says.
I
m going to ignore the potheads. And LSD users arent just killing themselves. They are killing others.I think the whole morality of my research is summed up in Terence McKennas ambivalence to his own drug use, when he found out he was to die. He would rather have lived a real life.
I shouldn't even be entertaining this because your ignorance and arrogance is so thick that you shouldn't even be given any attention for a second, but maybe I can use you to teach a lesson to others here.
First off, I don't really know you and you don't know me, I'm new here yet you seem to pretend to know me and my philosophy well. But based on what I've seen so far from you here is your some dude who likes to pretend he's some wise guy while putting everyone else down. You come up with these strange bizzare theories that hold no weight whatsoever and are based on really nothing. It is complete conjecture, and it seems you like to call this foolishness "gnosis".
Let me school you a little bit on gnosis and gnosticism, since you seem to be confused based on your last post. Gnosticism and gnosis have nothing to do with being a religion. Such a thought is foolish considering gnosticism deals self-knowledge and completely rejects institutionalized religion. It is an outlook on life as a whole, understanding the esoteric mysteries of creation, the divine unity of all, Wahdat al-Wajud.
And as for the demiurge, that has nothing to do with referring to an actual being. The demiurge is a concept, an extremely relevant and true concept during these times today. So again, refering to Gnosticism being some religion centered around a demiurge is errornous, ignorant, and just not scholarly, like the majority of the trash you post here.
Anyone from any walk of life can be a gnostic, since it is an outlook on life. That's why there existed jewish gnostics, christian gnostics, even "pagan" gnostics.
Not only are you extremely ignorant and arrogant (two traits that also make you incredibly blind by default), but you stand proud in your ignorance and you even resort to insults. Is that how a Muslim who is having "real experiences of God" behaves?
May Allah have mercy on you and give you guidance.