I want to marry
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let me explain myself about why i don't agree about alcohol and righteous. if you drink a glass of wine for medical reasons, does it mean that you are not being righteous? if you are under a lot of emotional pain from divorce, job loss or whatever and you just want to numb your pain by getting drunk, does that mean you are not righteous anymore? i know people who take a sip or two of alcohol once a year on new years or at a wedding, does that mean they are not righteous?
the act of drinking or not drinking alcohol in of itself doesn't make you a righteous person. i like to hear if you disagree and why?
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let me explain myself about why i don't agree about alcohol and righteous. if you drink a glass of wine for medical reasons, does it mean that you are not being righteous? if you are under a lot of emotional pain from divorce, job loss or whatever and you just want to numb your pain by getting drunk, does that mean you are not righteous anymore? i know people who take a sip or two of alcohol once a year on new years or at a wedding, does that mean they are not righteous?
the act of drinking or not drinking alcohol in of itself doesn't make you a righteous person. i like to hear if you disagree and why?
Shalom,
I agree with you , but only on the basis of "medicinal use" to prevent a greater loss. I never liked the taste of alcoholic beverages (i hate beer in particular ). The only times I drank were alone in the night to numb myself, after few shots of vodka, I felt emotionally alot better. I could finally close my eyes and go to sleep. I would be haunted by emotion and memories, at night I used alcohol to get over it. However, I should have consulted a medical expert for any alternative that has less side effects. Doctors do intoxicate patients just to prevent greater loss when they suffer from depression, dont they ? By the way, the story that I told is from the time when I did not have a clear understanding of any deen on earth.
I didnt say all that to vote for "Say yes to Alcohol". I am only speaking for medicinal purpose. Unfortunately, rarely do they sell or consume for medicinal purpose.
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
I refused another offer of alcohol yesterday, aren't I a perfect girl? police
Salaam C,
Great! MashaAllah!! that you refused the offer of alcohol.
Yes! Indeed, you are a perfect girl in this matter . And not only perfect, you are brave girl muscle
Just seek Allah's help on each and every matter, either big or small, and keep hold tight "the Book" of Allah which was given to us for guidance. By closing the Book and trying to make out ways will not give you any success for sure. Just try to give it more and more time to study it carefully.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
confused,
when i was a teen (am 40 now), i asked why would God create me a sexual being and deny me the pleasures of the flesh? why is sex outside marriage a major sin? people in college were having orgies, multiple sexual partners, making out at parties. i wanted answers to my questions before i chose to join the crowd. by the time i finished med school, i got my questions answered. none of the men and women who were diagnosed with herpes, HPV, tric, HIV (especially) were really too happy. also, there is emotional aspects. we are human beings with emotions, feelings and memories. how can having multiple sexual partners or making out with guys add to my emotional, spiritual and mental well being? i sure appreciate God's commands on fornication/adultery. i am not suffering from not having boyfriends, from not having STD's, from not getting pregnant, from not having memories of kissing guys or being physically intimate.
I don't see the rule on premarital sex as suffocating but rather protective. confused, don't you think that God knows best what is good for us and for our spiritual, mental, emotional and physical wellbeing? All these people who you see and are confused by..... look at them and ask if that is how you want to live? you can choose not to take God's guidance and see for yourself. me - i sure am not the suffering kind. i learned from others and chose to stick with God in this regard. i'd rather listen to God than people.
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I'm 31 I am not keeping my righteousness by refusing the drink but rather I am confused, just like my name says. I don't know if I want to be Muslim, Christian or an atheist. When I was 26 my best friend converted to Christianity and married a pastor, that confused me even more I think I am lost, trapped between two worlds. I am not Eastern and I am not Western. I am not sure yet what kind of Muslim I am or if I am Muslim at all. I do pray though, I don't drink or have premarital sex. But then again these are rituals and not true tests of faith.
Egypt is a very religious country. But I'm also a journalist and here in Egypt, for some reason, most of the journalists and writers are secular and atheists. That means that 98% of my friends are secular and atheist. Yesterday I was at a New Year dinner and most of the people there were drinking like hell. They were also having full on makeout sessions right there in front of everyone to see. Even when I lived in Australia - a secular country- people didn't kiss like that publicly. But hey this is Egypt and when we are religious we are "really" religious and when we are secular we are "really" secular. I guess that makes me even more confused.
As I said I am not rejecting the drinks because I want to be right, I am just torn. Part of me wants to let go of all these suffocating rules and then another part of me, which gets smaller by the way, feels that these rules are important because they come from a divine source. This is basically my storyDear Sister
I am 38 so we are almost the same age. I understand you because although my background is completely different I struggle with the same question sometimes, but my doubt comes from my upbringing. It is difficult to let go of indoctrinated emotions. I grew up in a family and country who generally despise religion and they have strived for many years to be as secular as possible. I understand them because the church has for many centuries raped and pillaged this country..........Anyways, you have taken a step "backwards" (according to your society) when you question the existense of God, I have taken a step backwards according to my society because I think God exists.....
With regards to alcohol it is an integrated part of our heritage just like many other European countries. Strangely, when you travel to countries where alcoholic tradition is very strong (such as Germany, Italy and Spain) you seldom see drunk people. Believe it or not, the majority of people drink alcohol because they enjoy the taste, not for the effect of alcohol. That is why it is very difficult, almost impossible, for the non-muslim European to understand what on earth intoxication has to do with righteousness. Hard to believe when you go to a bar, but it is true.......The majority of alcohol problems come from one group, the youngsters. They are the ones who cannot handle it because they got no experience.... .........The rest of the population see intoxication as stupidity and adolesence, nothing else.......
I have no problem going to a party because I do not have to mingle with drunk people behaving like animals. If someone would do what you described your New Year eve party like it would be considered highly offensive and just plain disgusting. At least at a grown-up party (since you are 31 I assume you did not go to a teenage party). I actually enjoy talking to slightly intoxicated people because just like the saying "in vino veritas" (in wine lies the truth) people tend to let go of their tongues and ask questions they are normally too scared to ask, especially about islam. Don't get me wrong, there are of course a lot of problems with alcohol and I wish people would stop drinking so much. But I do believe all the problems that come from alcohol are made by man. It is his inability to handle a substance that is potentially lethal. But just like you do not let a child who cannot swim out of sight by the swimming pool you must learn to trust the child once he knows how to swim.
I laughed when you wrote the Egyptians really really get into something because it is true, not only for Egyptians but for many countries with "hot" blood. I guess it sometimes becomes difficult for someone like you to find a balance living in surroundings like that. Either you are pious and go to the mosque everyday or you drink til you get drunk and make out with strangers.....You make this observation about your countrymen but I do believe you are more like "them" than you realize because you give yourself only extreme choices, muslim, christian or atheist.....Why are they the only choices you have?I think you should ask yourself if you believe in God. The question is not if you believe what man says about God but if you believe in God (I stole that from a Dan Brown book). If the answer is yes it is up to you to find your path, how you want get closer to Him and how you want to connect with Him. You may end up believing what many other people believe that Allah knows more, therefore He stops you from certain things like sex outside the marriage and drinking alcohol. Maybe you will believe what not so many people believe that Allah shows you the weakness of man and calls upon you to grow stronger not from repuntance but from understanding your own weakness. There is nothing right or wrong in searching for your belief, right? To me the Quran is what gave me in. I was an atheist with a very slight tendency of agnostic before I read the Quran. After I read it, I believed in God.
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The issue here is not alcohol. I doubt that I will be much of a drinker even if I leave Islam. I lived in Australia for five years and trust me any non-drinker who lives in this country will be put off of alcohol forever. It's nothing like you describe in your country Emil. In Australia alcohol makes the world go around. People go out with the sole intention of getting drunk. I am talking now about people in their 30s or 40s not experimenting teenagers or inexperienced youngsters in their 20s.
The point I was trying to make is not about alcohol. What I meant was that I am confused and not sure what direction I should go. Muslims always complain that their religion is under threat and that their is a Western conspiracy against it. I don't agree. I think the threat comes from within the Muslims themselves and the way they have been behaving the past few decades. Here in Egypt the Salafists have personally turned me off religion. The attacks on churches, calling Christians Kafirs, threatening to destroy our ancient monuments etc. It's disgusting and I don't want to share a religion with this filth. And don't tell me that these are just crazy extremists. I have not seen the so called moderate Muslims (if they exist in the first place) stand up to any of that Salafist rubbish.
When I tell these things to my mother, she says well it's fine if you are angry with the Muslims, but you are not worshipping Muslims, you are worshipping God. She told me not to blame Islam for what the Muslims too. That's true. But let me ask you this? If every time you meet a horrible person you find out that they graduated from the same school. Would you not start doubting the school? And questioning it? And thinking that maybe it's not the students, but the school itself that posts the problem? In my opinion, at the moment, Islam is this school. -
Salam Sister
I am sorry if I wrote in a way which could have come across as condensending. You are a smart person, I can see that from what you write, I didn't want you to think I am only adressing alcohol per-se. I wanted to share with you that there are places in the world where people have actually managed to find balance, and alcohol is described in the Quran as good as well as evil so it is a good example to use. On a side note I want to make clear that my country is not a good example of having a healthy attitude towards alchohol, I was referring more to our neigbour Germany. No, my country is more of a sad example of a government putting strict rules on the people without realizing they in practice take away people's ability to find a healthy attitude. The rules on under-age drinking is very strict here, the result is that when people turn 20 they try to make up for all those years "missed". IMO I think it is crazy to make people wait until they have a driver's license, no parental influence and probably a job enabling them to financially support their alcohol consumption. Recipe for disaster....But still we are blessed in the way that we actually grow out of adolesence and become a bit more responsible, not something you can say for the english speaking countries of this world elektro
I guess I'm saying the same thing that your mom did. Believe in God, not what man says about God. I come from the other side of your coin, I too had to tell my school and all that went to it to go screw themselves, not because they were religious but for being too non-religious...... Like I said before they have a good reason to throw out religion, nobody expects the victim to love the oppressor. The church was not nice to the people and finally the people rebelled.
I totally get where you are coming from. You need to break free from the schackles and repunt islam as practiced in order to find God. That is the direction I think you should go before the wounds inflicted by the salafis and other crazies become too deep for you to recover from. But that does not mean you must switch sides, you do not need to become an atheist. You just need to reboot your conception of God and start all over without any reflection of other people's conception.By the way, I know where the moderate muslims are. They are here.
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@Emil.
Are our views and beliefs based on the Koran with respect to drinking alcohol. Actually, I have consumed alcohol in the form of medicine (cough syrups). Does that make me less righteous?
There are muslims who won't cook or eat anything with alcohol in it (although most alcoholic content has been evaporated in the cooking process), anything marinated in alcohol or fried in beer batter (the fried food doesn't have alcohol in it), won't take any medications with alcohol in it.... I think it behooves us to question these views/beliefs.
I guess the question to be asked first is how do you define righteous? what characteristic, behavior or action is righteous?
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the answers to your questions hopefully will lead you to conclude there is Islam per God and then there is Islam per men. the 'school' you are questioning and confused by is the Islam per men. vast majority belong to this school of Islam according to men. the answers are in the Koran. you are in the right path with questioning and hope in time, you will go from being 'confused' to 'notconfused.'
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@Emil.
Are our views and beliefs based on the Koran with respect to drinking alcohol. Actually, I have consumed alcohol in the form of medicine (cough syrups). Does that make me less righteous?
There are muslims who won't cook or eat anything with alcohol in it (although most alcoholic content has been evaporated in the cooking process), anything marinated in alcohol or fried in beer batter (the fried food doesn't have alcohol in it), won't take any medications with alcohol in it.... I think it behooves us to question these views/beliefs.
I guess the question to be asked first is how do you define righteous? what characteristic, behavior or action is righteous?
Salam
Of course it doesn't make you less righteous. I believe alcohol and righteoussnes are two completely different subjects. Allah has clearly put a warning label on alcohol and also said He does not want to listen to a drunken prayer, and that's it. Being righteous is described elsewhere
Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous. -
Peace Confused. I am sure there are good Arabs same as with any other type in the world. Don't tell you self stuff like I don't want an Arab. There has to he god arabs out there like with any other nation in the world. Also, try and listen to sufis intetpretation of the Quran and you will see its ok to Mary anyone, even if they are not a Muslim. And if you ever want to talk about anything privately you can pm me if you wish.
Thanks
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Salam Sister
I am sorry if I wrote in a way which could have come across as condensending. You are a smart person, I can see that from what you write, I didn't want you to think I am only adressing alcohol per-se. I wanted to share with you that there are places in the world where people have actually managed to find balance, and alcohol is described in the Quran as good as well as evil so it is a good example to use. On a side note I want to make clear that my country is not a good example of having a healthy attitude towards alchohol, I was referring more to our neigbour Germany. No, my country is more of a sad example of a government putting strict rules on the people without realizing they in practice take away people's ability to find a healthy attitude. The rules on under-age drinking is very strict here, the result is that when people turn 20 they try to make up for all those years "missed". IMO I think it is crazy to make people wait until they have a driver's license, no parental influence and probably a job enabling them to financially support their alcohol consumption. Recipe for disaster....But still we are blessed in the way that we actually grow out of adolesence and become a bit more responsible, not something you can say for the english speaking countries of this world elektro
I guess I'm saying the same thing that your mom did. Believe in God, not what man says about God. I come from the other side of your coin, I too had to tell my school and all that went to it to go screw themselves, not because they were religious but for being too non-religious...... Like I said before they have a good reason to throw out religion, nobody expects the victim to love the oppressor. The church was not nice to the people and finally the people rebelled.
I totally get where you are coming from. You need to break free from the schackles and repunt islam as practiced in order to find God. That is the direction I think you should go before the wounds inflicted by the salafis and other crazies become too deep for you to recover from. But that does not mean you must switch sides, you do not need to become an atheist. You just need to reboot your conception of God and start all over without any reflection of other people's conception.By the way, I know where the moderate muslims are. They are here.
Yeah but how many people are in this forum? And let's not forget that the Quranists are reviled by the rest of the Muslim community.
But yes I agree with you. I need to fix this fast before the damage becomes irreversible. I decided today to make a concentrated effort to find answers. I reckon it's better than the confused state I am living in right now. However, I also decided not to think of myself as a Muslim (at least temporarily) until I feel better about my faith. This meant that I stopped praying today, which is really hard since I've been pretty good about my prayers since I turned 15. It also meant that I cannot read Ayet El Kursi 30 or 40 times a day, as I usually do which is killing me by the way. I tend to read Ayet El Kursi whenever I am stressed or worried or want things to go my way. Since I am an anxious person that usually adds up to 30 or 40 times a day Today, my work wasn't going very well and I was just about to read Ayet El Kursi to ask God to make it more smooth. Then I had to remind myself that I can't do that anymore. It's difficult to live without God after you've had him in your life for 31 years.
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It's difficult to live without God after you've had him in your life for 31 years.
Tell me about it. For me it is difficult to live with God after you've had him not in your life for almost the same amount of years
You were asking where all the moderate muslims are. Sorry sister I wasn't referring to this forum. I was talking about my neighbours. My apologies for not being clear.I think you are doing the right thing. Start over, reboot and meet God as a stronger person.
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ok - now, i am confused. why do you need to recite ayet el kursi when stressed? can't you just tell God, i am distressed and please help me? why can't you just talk to God?
and not saying salat means you are not a muslim? since when? says who? am i misunderstanding something here?
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why do you need to recite ayet el kursi when stressed? can't you just tell God, i am distressed and please help me? why can't you just talk to God?
Salaam,
Very well said bravo
May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
ok - now, i am confused. why do you need to recite ayet el kursi when stressed? can't you just tell God, i am distressed and please help me? why can't you just talk to God?
and not saying salat means you are not a muslim? since when? says who? am i misunderstanding something here?
For me prayer is one of the most fundamental aspects of Islam, so stopping it is a big deal for me.
As for Ayet El Kursi, no, it is not mandatory to read it when you are stressed. But the words in the Aya really soothe me so I used to read it a lot during the day.
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I don't agree that prayer (by this I am assuming you mean 'salat' is the fundamental aspect of Islam. Says who? People or God?
Fundamental aspect of Islam is (I believe) and I quote Sura 2ayat 62 "surely the believers and the Jews, Nazareans and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day, and whosoever does right shall have his reward with his Lord and will neither have fear nor regret."
Per Sura 29ayat 45....'surely prayer keeps you away from the obscene and detestable, but the remembrance of God is greater far..."
Piety/righteousness is the fundamental aspect of Islam.
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Are your views/beleifs/understanding based on teachings of the Koran or based on culture, tradition, what we have been told is Islam and practiced by people?
The moment you think about God, you establish connection. Sura 2186 - the moment you call upon God, He is near. You can make a connection with God anytime, anywhere.
Yes, salat is a way to make that connection with God but it has been turned into ritual, basically a tradition, or a habit obsessing over numbers and form than the intended purpose.
Salat is prescribed as it has been before for reasons as explained by God. How many people you know who pray 5 times and then in between making their connection, fornicate, lie, hurt, backbite, disrespect, oppress, unkind, uncaring, untrustworthy, etc..The fundamental of Islam is belief in God and in the life hereafter and attaining piety. A good muslim or practicing muslim is someone who does good works, is a good person. If you don't do salat that doesn't mean you are not a muslim or a practicing muslim.
There is Islam per God and then there is Islam according to men.