artificial insemination
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Brother Abdul,
So basically you are saying that sexually intercourse outside of marriage is forbidden but to have AI through a man who is not your husband is? Are they not the same? The main function of Sexual intercourse is to have OFFSPRING. Why do you think God invented sex in the first place? Your interpretation is too narrow. Who does the sperm belong to? Didn't it come from A MAN? So doesn't that mean that the child that is born HAS A FATHER? And isn't it written in the Quran that a woman cannot hide that which is in her womb? Also doesn't the father also have legal rights to the child? What mother would deny the right of child to be with his father? ALL these questions you have missed in your response.
You are also failing to review a simple question which I asked. Was this woman married to this man? If this is legal then what is the difference between AI and premarital sex? Sex is used as tool to generate offspring. That is the MAIN FUNCTION OF SEX. So if a woman has AI procedure it is as if SHE DID HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE since sexual reproduction occurs with an egg and a sperm. Whoever says otherwise must be reading from some other biology textbook that I am not aware of.
AI cannot be allowed since a woman cannot have children WITHOUT BEING MARRIED FIRST. Anything else would be considered a lewd act from my understanding.
Regarding your question about what if the donor was dead. The answer to that is simple. If the donor was woman's husband and he died then she is not married to him. The dead cannot marry the living. When your spouse dies you are legally single and free to marry whoever you wish. And besides, what would be the point of a married couple to go through AI in the first place? Can't they just have sex?
Peace,
Kevin
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Lets think of two women who had children by AI from the same donor. The children do not know who their father is but they are sisters and brothers. Since they don't know the truth they may marry. Marriage between sisters and brothers is forbidden in Qur'an.
This is what I was talking about. This is why people should study the Quran more carefully so that when questions like these come up there would better derive a proper answer after looking at ALL THE ASPECTS. Some people like Abdul, think that sex is just pounding flesh. Isn't sex a practice that was invented to produce OFFSPRING? Isn't AI a tool to get OFFSPRING? So isn't sex and AI somewhat similar since both have the SAME RESULT? Also isn't AI a lewd act when a woman isn't married to the donor?
Peace,
Kevin
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Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
Brother Abdul,
So basically you are saying that sexually intercourse outside of marriage is forbidden but to have AI through a man who is not your husband is?
Yes.
Are they not the same?
No.
The main function of Sexual intercourse is to have OFFSPRING. Why do you think God invented sex in the first place? Your interpretation is too narrow. Who does the sperm belong to?
It belongs to the woman, once she buys/procures it. Before she bought it (if she bought it), it belonged to a sperm bank that also paid for it. It is the same case with blood and blood transfusions.
Didn't it come from A MAN?
Um, yes. Likewise, cow milk comes from a cow. When we buy the milk, ownership of the milk is now ours.
So doesn't that mean that the child that is born HAS A FATHER? And isn't it written in the Quran that a woman cannot hide that which is in her womb?
Context of hiding what is in her womb is a married couple. The child (in case of AI) legally speaking does not have a father--but may have a guardian (or no guardian--in any case, the donor has NOTHING to do with the child). If the sperm donor is deceased, there is definitely not a father in any sense of the word.
Also doesn't the father also have legal rights to the child? What mother would deny the right of child to be with his father? ALL these questions you have missed in your response.
The "father" is a donor and may be known or unknown, and may be living or dead. No legal right exists, and neither does the woman have any basis for child support. Many women DO deny visitation, especially after a nasty divorce--or if the father is a low life who doesn't support the child. Sometimes a parent is dangerous, other times a parent is deceased. Not all children have two living parents. I can't address questions until they are asked! )
You are also failing to review a simple question which I asked. Was this woman married to this man?
No.
If this is legal then what is the difference between AI and premarital sex?
AI is legal and not restricted in AQ. AI is a medical procedure, like a flu shot is a medical procedure. Premarital sex is coitus/sexual activity between a man and a woman, and is forbidden in AQ. Lust/sexual attraction is involved in premarital sex--not so in the medical procedure. Also, there is no "accidental" pregnancy in AI--pregnancy is the hoped-for outcome.
Sex is used as tool to generate offspring. That is the MAIN FUNCTION OF SEX. So if a woman has AI procedure it is as if SHE DID HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE since sexual reproduction occurs with an egg and a sperm. Whoever says otherwise must be reading from some other biology textbook that I am not aware of.
It was already a given that AI falls under the biological definition of sex--no dispute. It is a whole 'nother story to claim that it is sexual intercourse. AI is in no way sexual intercourse--even if the end result is the same. Both a camel and a bicycle can transport a person, but they are totally different.
AI cannot be allowed since a woman cannot have children WITHOUT BEING MARRIED FIRST. Anything else would be considered a lewd act from my understanding.
Thank you for sharing. Understandings and opinions vary--as do yours and mine on the matter of AI being a lewd act. AI is a personal and private decision for a woman to make, based on HER understanding.
Regarding your question about what if the donor was dead. The answer to that is simple. If the donor was woman's husband and he died then she is not married to him. The dead cannot marry the living. When your spouse dies you are legally single and free to marry whoever you wish. And besides, what would be the point of a married couple to go through AI in the first place? Can't they just have sex?
I was presenting a case where the deceased donor of the sperm was not the woman's husband. It was a rhetorical point. Sometimes married couples need AI or IVF to have children (low sperm counts etc).
Peace,
Kevin
When the donor is known, there is no possibility of offspring marrying. If the donor is unknown, a DNA test can confirm that a prospective couple are not related.
A woman who utilizes AI is not unchaste. She should disclose the AI to a prospective partner, if she does get pregnant.
I would take the position that a married woman who gets AI with sperm other than her husband's without the knowledge and consent of her husband is approaching lewdness--but that is just my opinion.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Peace Kevin
I agree with you for all the points you?ve made in your posts?.having children without being first married is not what God teaches us?.Some people are looking for a straightforward verse to say what?s permitted what?s not while they ignore the light of the Quran which can be seen only through studying the verses and system of God which is unchangeable.
Here in below verse we can clearly read what God teaches us, first marriage then children.
And GOD made for you spouses from among yourselves, and produced for you from your spouses children and grandchildren, and provided you with good provisions. Should they believe in falsehood, and turn unappreciative of GOD's blessings?
Since one should get married and then have children the act of AI is a sin and sin is Haram.
Say, "My Lord prohibits only evil deeds, be they obvious or hidden, and sins, and unjustifiable aggression, and to set up beside GOD powerless idols, and to say about GOD what you do not know."
Question is that now who really wish to go to hell just because wants to have a child like that when on the Judgment Day is ready to give her/his own child/children as ransom?
When they see them, the guilty will wish he could give his own children as ransom, to spare him the retribution of that day.
May God guide us to His True Light
Asana
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Greetings and Peace, all group
1672 And GOD has made for you mates from among yourselves, and He has made from your mates sons and grandchildren, and He has provided you from the good provisions. Is it the falsehood that they believe in, while the favor of GOD they reject?
One hoped-for outcome of being married for most people is children. Where does AQ 1672 state that children are only possible or allowable from marriage? If this is not stated, it is an artificial boundary. If it is an artificial boundary, don't expect others to pay heed to it.
Indeed, taken literally--where do daughters come from? hmm 1672 is not saying that ONLY boys can come from a marriage and neither is it saying that children can ONLY come from marriage. Rain means wet streets, but wet streets do not mean rain.
699 And He is the One who sent down water from the heaven, and We brought out with it plants of every kind. We brought out from it the green, from which We bring out multiple seeds; and what is from the palm trees, from its sheaths hanging low and near; and gardens of grapes and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Look at its fruit when it blossoms and its ripeness. In this are signs for a people who believe.
Are gardens limited to grapes/olives/pomegranates? Neither are children limited to spouses. Sexual intercourse is reserved for the married (per 2433, etc). AI is not sexual intercourse. AQ is specific where it needs to be.
Anything that has existed, does exist or will exist is by leave of ALLAH. AI is one such thing created. I find no compelling evidence that AI is prohibited. If AI is not prohibited it is allowed.
Also, unless there is a reason why 2223 does not apply, this proves that AI is positively acceptable and not "only" acceptable because it is not disallowed.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Peace Kevin
I agree with you for all the points you?ve made in your posts?.having children without being first married is not what God teaches us?.Some people are looking for a straightforward verse to say what?s permitted what?s not while they ignore the light of the Quran which can be seen only through studying the verses and system of God which is unchangeable.
Here in below verse we can clearly read what God teaches us, first marriage then children.
And GOD made for you spouses from among yourselves, and produced for you from your spouses children and grandchildren, and provided you with good provisions. Should they believe in falsehood, and turn unappreciative of GOD's blessings?
Since one should get married and then have children the act of AI is a sin and sin is Haram.
Say, "My Lord prohibits only evil deeds, be they obvious or hidden, and sins, and unjustifiable aggression, and to set up beside GOD powerless idols, and to say about GOD what you do not know."
Question is that now who really wish to go to hell just because wants to have a child like that when on the Judgment Day is ready to give her/his own child/children as ransom?
When they see them, the guilty will wish he could give his own children as ransom, to spare him the retribution of that day.
May God guide us to His True Light
Asana
i agree with Asana. The Quran has shown us that MARRIAGE is the only LEGAL way to have children. When people don't study the Quran carefully they become easily swayed to following teachings that are unethical and not legal in any form or fashion.
Look at this other verse for example
7029 Those who conceal their private parts.
7030 Except around their spouses or those committed to by oath, there is no blame.
7031 Then, whoever seeks anything beyond this, they are the transgressorsHow can AI be allowed if this law is broken? Isn't AI a breach of this law when a women's wombs (which is a PRIVATE PART) becomes exposed to another man's semen OTHER THAN HER SPOUSES.
God says quite clearly Then, whoever seeks anything beyond this, they are the transgressors
Artificial insemination IS TOTALLY FORBIDDEN. You need to have a spouse to have children. This is what the Quran teaches us.
Why is it that some people cannot see that AI is a clear violation of what is taught in the Quran. Marriage between a MAN AND WOMAN what is taught. Believers can only have children WITH THERE SPOUSES! If anyone says or does otherwise willfully they are violating the teachings of the Quran.
Peace,
Kevin
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Salaam,
welcome sister borooje,
I agree with Kevin, Asana and Tlepsh.
A quick question for brother Abdul Hadi.
Question If a man divorced his wife and after an year she wanted a child from the same ex-husband, can she get A.I. from the divorced husband?
May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
i agree with Asana. The Quran has shown us that MARRIAGE is the only LEGAL way to have children.
When people don't study the Quran carefully they become easily swayed to following teachings that are unethical and not legal in any form or fashion.
Look at this other verse for example
7029 Those who conceal their private parts.
7030 Except around their spouses or those committed to by oath, there is no blame.
7031 Then, whoever seeks anything beyond this, they are the transgressorsHow can AI be allowed if this law is broken?
AQ 7029 is talking about modesty . A woman utilizing AI is not being immodest; neither is she "revealing" her private parts. It states nothing about children. Even if it did apply to producing children, 7030 talks about "or those committed by oath." Two points about this.
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Those persons committed by oath are not a spouse. This deflates the argument that "only a spouse can..."
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It is also interpreted as "what is rightfully possessed". Every person rightfully possesses their own body.
Isn't AI a breach of this law when a women's wombs (which is a PRIVATE PART) becomes exposed to another man's semen OTHER THAN HER SPOUSES.
Not in this case. There is no intercourse. There is no sexual contact between the man and the woman. An internal organ can't even be revealed/exposed to view. Even if internal organs could be exposed to view, professional interaction with medical personnel is hardly a forbidden action! Also, the semen is no longer the man's once purchased. It belongs to the purchaser.
God says quite clearly Then, whoever seeks anything beyond this, they are the transgressors
AQ does clearly state this. No dispute. The emphasis was superfluous.
Artificial insemination IS TOTALLY FORBIDDEN. You need to have a spouse to have children. This is what the Quran teaches us.
This is still not proven. AQ definitely teaches not to forbid what is not forbidden--and also not to say that something that is forbidden is allowed.
Why is it that some people cannot see that AI is a clear violation of what is taught in the Quran.
Perhaps because some people don't beg the question. If it isn't forbidden, it can't be forbidden even if everybody else on earth attempts to forbid it.
Marriage between a MAN AND WOMAN what is taught. Believers can only have children WITH THERE SPOUSES! If anyone says or does otherwise willfully they are violating the teachings of the Quran.
Marriage between a man and woman IS taught, and perhaps marriage is best--but this does not mean that it is the only way to have children lawfully.
Peace,
Kevin
May ALLAH see fit to increase us all in useful knowledge.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Salaam,
welcome sister borooje,
I agree with Kevin, Asana and Tlepsh.
A quick question for brother Abdul Hadi.
Question If a man divorced his wife and after an year she wanted a child from the same ex-husband, can she get A.I. from the divorced husband?
May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhanSorry about the delay in posting.
Sure, I don't see why not. It probably wouldn't be the best course of action, but it isn't forbidden.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Sure, I don't see why not. It probably wouldn't be the best course of action, but it isn't forbidden.
Salaam brother,
2230
2230 So if he divorces her, then she will not be lawful for him until after she has married a different husband; if he divorces her; then there is no sin that they come back together if they think they will uphold the boundaries of God. These are the boundaries of God, He clarifies them for a people who know.Even after she is not lawful for him? hmm
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Salaam brother,
2230
2230 So if he divorces her, then she will not be lawful for him until after she has married a different husband; if he divorces her; then there is no sin that they come back together if they think they will uphold the boundaries of God. These are the boundaries of God, He clarifies them for a people who know.Even after she is not lawful for him? hmm
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhanI see and understand your point. But they are hardly "together" and the donation would not make them sexual partners. If she needed a kidney and he donated one, it wouldn't be forbidden. If she wanted a cup of sugar/flour/whatever and he was willing, it wouldn't be forbidden. Why would this case be any different?
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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AOA all
Just to add my two bits worth
If the only function of sex is to reproduce does that mean it is haram/illegal etc between the infertile couple.
Recently a women concieved using her dead husbands sperm, which had been stored earlier, by means of AI. So was she being lewd or what ever the word is.
regards -
I see and understand your point. But they are hardly "together" and the donation would not make them sexual partners. If she needed a kidney and he donated one, it wouldn't be forbidden. If she wanted a cup of sugar/flour/whatever and he was willing, it wouldn't be forbidden. Why would this case be any different?
Salaam,
Marriage has nothing to do with kidney and a cup of sugar... you already know that. Even without marriage you can share or donate these things, but sex is something that has to be lawful which is done by marriage. Anything in its relation as AI is also not lawful until they get married.
And who will be the dad and mom of the baby, the unlawful father? I don't think so. Hope you understand my point.
Women are only lawful for men after getting married, what this mean to you?
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Salaam,
Marriage has nothing to do with kidney and a cup of sugar... you already know that. Even without marriage you can share or donate these things, but sex is something that has to be lawful which is done by marriage. Anything in its relation as AI is also not lawful until they get married.
And who will be the dad and mom of the baby, the unlawful father? I don't think so. Hope you understand my point.
Women are only lawful for men after getting married, what this mean to you?
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhanAI has nothing to do with marriage either...that was the point! Is there something inherently "dirty" about organs or bodily fluids? hmm What is the REAL difference between a kidney, a pint of blood, or a few cc's of sperm? Why can one donate a kidney or blood, but not sperm? Donating sperm is not sex any more than donating blood is sex!
You do know that cloning can be done from all types of cells now, right? The cells can be made to undifferentiate from even skin cells--no longer are fetal cells required. The point is that an entire creature can be made from just a few cells--the entire process is asexual. Is someone now going to try to tell me that cloning is only possible in marriage--or that the clear and complete Qur'an says that cloning is forbidden? rotfl
The mom of the baby will be pretty obvious...momma's babies, daddies maybes! Calling the father unlawful is loaded language--in multiple ways. Although the male was the source of the sperm, he is hardly a "father"...and the "unlawful" is per your understanding. To you your understanding; to me mine.
About 16% of all children only live with one parent. VERY few of these cases involve AI. If children only having one parent is a concern, I suggest concentrating here first.
Sourcehttp//economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/single-parents-around-the-world/
Since AI is not sex, it would mean that "only lawful in marriage" doesn't apply--this is what it means to me.
We all go by our best understanding. If you don't agree with AI, don't donate sperm! > I have a strategic advantage if I donate and you don't--the "fruit of my loins" will populate the earth! <just kidding> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and consequences--but nobody is entitled to (en)force opinion.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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The mom of the baby will be pretty obvious...momma's babies, daddies maybes! Calling the father unlawful is loaded language--in multiple ways. Although the male was the source of the sperm, he is hardly a "father"...and the "unlawful" is per your understanding. To you your understanding; to me mine.
Salaam brother,
You did not answer my question.
Women are only lawful for men after getting married, what this mean to you?
Another simple question .
Q. Is sex outside marriage allowed?
Please feel free if you like to answer, if you are not comfortable with my question please ignore them. And I agree with you on the above highlighted part from your post.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
Salaam brother,
You did not answer my question.
Women are only lawful for men after getting married, what this mean to you?
Beg pardon. When I wrote "Since AI is not sex, it would mean that "only lawful in marriage" doesn't apply--this is what it means to me.", this was intended to address the question. In other words, this passage is not relevant to AI.
Another simple question .
Q. Is sex outside marriage allowed?
No.
Please feel free if you like to answer, if you are not comfortable with my question please ignore them. And I agree with you on the above highlighted part from your post.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhanALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Shalom Aleikhom,
Interesting indeed.
-Is the soul purpose of marriage is to legalize sex ?
-Am I wrong to assume that marriage comes with responsibilities that involve family, financial matters/etc and ensures a better upbringing of the child ?
-If that is correct, are you willfully making a child an orphan by AI when you are not his mother's husband ?Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Shalom Aleikhom,
Interesting indeed.
-Is the soul purpose of marriage is to legalize sex ?
-Am I wrong to assume that marriage comes with responsibilities that involve family, financial matters/etc and ensures a better upbringing of the child ?
-If that is correct, are you willfully making a child an orphan by AI when you are not his mother's husband ?Peace
------------- Student of AllahA woman considering AI may be married. Some people lump AI in the same category as sexual intercourse and thus say that it is the same as adultery. I disagree, based on my understanding. No matter how emotional a person may get, AI is not and can not be sexual intercourse.
Is marriage/adoption/fostering/mentoring better? In most all cases, a resounding YES! Does this mean that other ways are prohibited just because other ways are "better" or more traditional? Not hardly! A woman wants to pass on her genetics the same as a man does. This is only possible if she bears a child. Also, most people want to adopt very young babies if they adopt. For this reason, there is a very limited supply of very young babies. If a woman wants to raise a young baby without being married (and without being unchaste) she will either need to be wealthy or utilize AI. Should only the wealthy be able to adopt the very young? hmm
Who is to say that the mother is not financially able/responsible? The mother likely has friends/relatives--or even a husband. One would hope that a woman considering AI would be able to shoulder the attendant responsibility--there is a certain element of deliberation involved! The child would be planned for, and definitely wanted.
AQ tells us not to kill children for fear of poverty. There has to be a child in the first place! Marriage brings many benefits, but it isn't the "kiss of doom" for a child to be raised by a single parent--especially when the child is anticipated and planned and cherished. Marriage doesn't always last. Life of a parent does not always outlast the childhood of a child, either.
There are millions of children that are currently in single family households--many of these children will grow up to be good adults. Then again, some people have two parents and still turn out bad; having two parents is no guarantee of a good outcome. Divorce is more likely to result in a child having a single parent--and divorce also tends to eat resources that could be otherwise used (to raise a family) as well.
Moreover, a child would have to have no living parents to be an orphan. So long as one parent is alive, the child is not an orphan.
6151 Say "Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is evident of it and what is subtle; and do not take the life which GOD has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
For those truly interested in the welfare of children--more matter and less art. Do something positive! There are many children with NO family. Adopt/mentor/foster.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
My comments in red.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Salaam brother Hadi,
Thanks for your reply. I am sorry to disagree with you, my understanding is different than yours.
May Allah increase us in knowledge, correct our mistakes and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
May God ALmighty Resolve this Dispute )
One must consider 7031, anyone seeking beyond using their private parts with theier spouces is transgressing (this can be extended to your own self)Marriage makes Sexual relationships Legal. With Sexual Relationships, Preganancy is a conditional case. If Marriage was not law-fying sexual relationships, then why don't all people just use AI and maybe get over with the hasel of finding a husband and going through marriage? If people don't do that, then it can be reasoned that you cannot simply take/lend somebody your semen. Moreover, Will the Husband or the person lending the semen ever take responsibility of the child? Is he going to include the child in His Will like God Almighty instructs us to do so? Is he going to provide the mother? etc
I personally would think that adopting is a better way. You spare a kid form growing up in centers, with maybe no close family or bond. You reward yourself because you'd be doing something nice, and would be doing something unselfish, yes some people want their OWN kids, how better it is to adopt a kid and pray for that child to become a better person? DO you not see the blessing? would God not reward you more than if you had your own kid?
Plus that way, i would think you would have a better stance, you did something good, and provided someone else's child, and took care of an orphan.