RIBA
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Salaam alaykoum,
Recently some fatawa were given to allow muslims buying a property to live in by means of a loan and to pay interest on the lent money.
A lot of brothers and sisters didn't agree at all with this stance of the ulama ( mostly Muslimbrotherhood minded, Al Qaradawi and Co)
Nevertheless it seems to me that there is at least some maslaha in their fatwa.Not that we should accept riba. By no means!
But looking at alternatives, what could be the solution? To rent a house?Let's have a look at the ahadith! (I know that the answer should be in al-Qu'ran but I don't see it for now)
From Sahih Muslim, The Book of Transactions (Kitab Al-Buyu`)
Book 010, Number 3799
Jabir b. 'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade the hiring of a Camel to cover a she-Camel and from selling water and land to be tilled. So from all this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade.
A camel cannot be rented out to perform an act and the owner being paid for its work.
Chapter 40 HE (THE HOLY PROPHET) CURSED THE ONE WHO ACCEPTS INTEREST AND THE ONE WHO PAYS IT.
Book 010, Number 3880
'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) (Allah be pleased with him) said that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) cursed the one who accepted interest and the one who paid it I asked about the one who recorded it, and two witnesses to it. He (the narrator) said We narrate what we have heard.From this hadith it becomes clear that both, the creditor and the borrower of money or other goods, are held responsable for their deeds.
Chapter 17 LEASING OUT LAND
Book 010, Number 3715
Jabir b. Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having forbidden the renting of land.The Messenger has forbidden the renting of land.
Book 010, Number 3717
Jabir b. Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported some of the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had surplus of land. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said He, who has surplus land (in his possession) should cultivate it, or he should lend it to his brother for benefit, but if he refuses to accept it, he should retain it.Land should be given to members of the family to exploit these lands for their own benifice. But they can refuse it.
Book 010, Number 3718
Jabir b. Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having forbidden taking of rent or share of land.Asking a financial compensation for giving land at someones disposal is prohibited.
Book 010, Number 3719
Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying He who has land should cultivate it, but if he does not find it possible to cultivate it, or finds himself helpless to do so, he should lend it to his Muslim brother, but he should not accept rent from him.If someone sees no way to cultivate his land himself and his familymembers don't either then the land should be given to an other muslimbrother without being financially rewarded for it.
At the time of the Prophet pbuh probably everyone had a house to live in or had it made available by others or built it themselves.
It's not so hard to reason by analogy and say that anyone who has a house which he doesn't use for himself, should lend it to others who are in need of it and without asking for rent.
According to the islamic way of live it should be very clear that everyone has the duty that his surplus of property (as a gift of Allah swt)
to giving this surplus away or putting it at the disposal of the needing.
The benefice will become visible on the Last Day. InshaAllah.A non-muslim cannot be obliged to rent his property out for free but the muslim can be prohibited from paying a rent. It is riba.
Either muslims make available their houses for their brothers and sisters and start to build new ones for the needing, or the needing should be allowed to borrow money from banks without that these banks can make any supplementary conditions to safeguard their own interests.
This could be seen as mashala, common interest, the way of the least harm in times of need.There is also analogy in car-insurances. Insurances are riba. Its gambling over Qadr Allah.
The insuring company will gain substantially if there are no accidents while the car-owners lose the same amount of money at the same time.
If a lot of accidents should happen the insuring company loses money (makes less benifice) while the car-owners gain a lot more than the paid for their insurance against accidents.
Insurance companies calculate of coarse their risk, and gamble over Qadr Allah to eliminate their risk almost completely and so the eat and prosper on the money of the car-owners.
This is a clear proof for riba.Fire insurances for buidings also gamble over Qadr Allah and they also commit riba.
I wonder what's my brothers opinion on this subject.
And Allah knows best.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
I neither recognize extra-Quranic hadith nor any so-called fatw. AQ is complete and fully detailed.
My understanding is that riba/usury is charging beyond what can be afforded. If a person can afford interest, it is not usury.
It is a FACT that the future value of money is less than the present value.
1735 And give full measure when you deal, and weigh with a balance that is straight. That is good and better in the end.
$100 today and $100 in 100 years are not equivalent! It is not full measure to recieve less than what one started with.
26181 "Give full measure and do not be of those who cause losses."
In many places, such as the United States, vehicle insurance is mandatory. Not all insurance companies are profit driven--some redistribute any excesses back to the members, and it is the members who own the company.
It is debatable whether currency as it exists today is even money, even though it is used as money. A dollar bill is only paper; a coin is only metal. Credit is electronic signals and nothing tangible need be involved.
Those who buy into hadith deserve the hardships attendant to their beliefs. There is no compulsion in the Deen.
Lastly, consider this
6145 Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me to be unlawful for any eater to eat except that it be already dead, or running blood, or the meat of pig - for it is foul - or what is a wickedness, dedicated to other than GOD." But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
My belief is that the highlighted portion applies to all things.
To each their own.
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Peace,
I agree with what Abdul-Hadi has stated. He used good examples from the Qur'an to prove his point. A couple of days ago I had watched a lecture by Abdur Raheem Green and he basically stated the same thing regarding car insurance, and that's coming from a salafi.
As far as the house is concerned, while I agree with the principles that Abdul-Hadi laid out, I am unsure if it can be applied to for most people. Are the companies charging usury? If so, by us paying into it, that makes us just as guilty, no? Also, a house is not required or essential for everyday life and there is options with rent. However, in America, most people seek that American dream.
You also brought up a good point about housing insurance. Abdur Raheem Green points out that it shows a lack of trust in the Qadr of Allah. Then again, he's a Salafi.
Peace
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Peace,
...Are the companies charging usury? If so, by us paying into it, that makes us just as guilty, no?...
PeaceI agree with you. If usury is involved, both parties are equally guilty. It is convenient to lay the guilt at the feet of the of the person/institution making a loan, but it takes "two to tango". A person should not seek to purchase what is beyond their means except for extreme circumstances (lifesaving surgery, etc). I feel that if and only if a person can afford a loan, it is not usury.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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I don't believe hadith to be the inspired words of Allah or the Prophet himself, nor is belief in them necessary for the Deen, but I see no reason to reject them completely. There is wisdom to be found in some of them just like there is some wisdom to be found in the Bible though it's not the inspired words of Allah or the prophets.
All forms of interest is riba, I fully agree with that. It's making money from doing nothing. The way the US Federal Reserve system works (using simple numbers) is the US government borrows 1 million dollars from the central bank by giving them 1 million in US bonds. The central bank in return give the government 1 million federal reserve notes (dollars) to be put in circulation and charges interest on the 1 million borrowed. In the end, the US government has to pay back 1.5 millions dollars, but could never do so because only 1 million is in circulation! The interest creates unpayable debt, it is full riba. Granted that's on a large scale, but even when you borrow money at a bank you have to pay back more than you borrowed. The bank did nothing to earn that extra money.
Rent is riba because if you have property in surplus to rent out (meaning you are not personally using it) you should give it to the ones in need because that is the Islamic way. Charging rent for something you would otherwise not be using is still earning money for doing nothing. It is a form of interest, riba.
Insurance is more like gambling than usury, but it still is also haraam. The stock market is also a form of gambling and would be deemed haraam.
Points I really liked were these
Book 010, Number 3719
Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying He who has land should cultivate it, but if he does not find it possible to cultivate it, or finds himself helpless to do so, he should lend it to his Muslim brother, but he should not accept rent from him.If someone sees no way to cultivate his land himself and his familymembers don't either then the land should be given to an other muslimbrother without being financially rewarded for it.
At the time of the Prophet pbuh probably everyone had a house to live in or had it made available by others or built it themselves.
It's not so hard to reason by analogy and say that anyone who has a house which he doesn't use for himself, should lend it to others who are in need of it and without asking for rent.
According to the islamic way of live it should be very clear that everyone has the duty that his surplus of property (as a gift of Allah swt)
to giving this surplus away or putting it at the disposal of the needing.
The benefice will become visible on the Last Day. InshaAllah.A non-muslim cannot be obliged to rent his property out for free but the muslim can be prohibited from paying a rent. It is riba.
Either muslims make available their houses for their brothers and sisters and start to build new ones for the needing, or the needing should be allowed to borrow money from banks without that these banks can make any supplementary conditions to safeguard their own interests.
This could be seen as mashala, common interest, the way of the least harm in times of need. -
I agree that all forms of interest is haram, but I don't follow hadiths nor do I agree on the the point that a person who is charged interest is liable.
A person who runs a bank and charges interest on loans is guilty of riba. A person who borrows it however I believe is not and rather is the victim of riba. Sure one can try to say it takes two to cause riba to happen, but the Quran did not not mention anything of that in terms of riba. That is liking saying one who buys into giving up their stuff to a thief is just as guilty as the thief. A person who uses a credit card to buy a simple burger or something I don't see how he would be guilty nor a person who gets a loan to open up his own business.
Therefore I don't see a problem is regards to getting charged interest as long as you aren't the one charging others the interest.
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I agree that all forms of interest is haram, but I don't follow hadiths nor do I agree on the the point that a person who is charged interest is liable.
A person who runs a bank and charges interest on loans is guilty of riba. A person who borrows it however I believe is not and rather is the victim of riba. Sure one can try to say it takes two to cause riba to happen, but the Quran did not not mention anything of that in terms of riba. Therefore I don't see a problem is regards to getting charged interest as long as you aren't the one charging others the interest.
I agree. The one who is borrowing the money is a victim of riba and not guilty of riba itself. In essence, many of us are victims of riba already by default (tax).
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Peace
I agree that all forms of interest is haram, but I don't follow hadiths nor do I agree on the the point that a person who is charged interest is liable.
A person who runs a bank and charges interest on loans is guilty of riba. A person who borrows it however I believe is not and rather is the victim of riba. Sure one can try to say it takes two to cause riba to happen, but the Quran did not not mention anything of that in terms of riba. Therefore I don't see a problem is regards to getting charged interest as long as you aren't the one charging others the interest.
That's like how some Muslims say that it is ok for them to sell pork to others so long they don't eat it.
Also, interest is not the problem. Riba is usury, meaning excess interest that the other party is not able to pay, a hardship.
Peace
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Peace
That's like how some Muslims say that it is ok for them to sell pork to others so long they don't eat it.
Also, interest is not the problem. Riba is usury, meaning excess interest that the other party is not able to pay, a hardship.
Peace
That is not at all the case and that is not a good comparison either. So what if one is on the end of getting charged riba? there is NO Quranic verse that backs up the claim of being guilty of being on that end. One can come up with certain things but its not there simple as that.
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I agree. The one who is borrowing the money is a victim of riba and not guilty of riba itself. In essence, many of us are victims of riba already by default (tax).
Exactly the case and considering the Quran is suppose to be universal and easy, I wouldn't think God would make our lives hard to the point where it's impossible live outside the Middle East where riba doesn't exist.
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That is not at all the case and that is not a good comparison either. So what if one is on the end of getting charged riba? there is NO Quranic verse that backs up the claim of being guilty of being on that end. One can come up with certain things but its not there simple as that.
Peace
That's like how some Muslims say that it is ok for them to sell pork to others so long they don't eat it.
Also, interest is not the problem. Riba is usury, meaning excess interest that the other party is not able to pay, a hardship.
Peace
Any form of interest is usury because you have to pay back more than you borrowed, which is a hardship. If you had to borrow 10,000 dollars for college to begin with, it is a great hardship to have to pay back 17,500 dollars or more.
And that really isn't a good comparison. A Muslim selling pork to a fellow Muslim is creating fitna, so it would be haraam. A Muslim that has no choice but to borrow money or pay rent and is charged interest is a victim and does not share guilt with the one charging interest. If that were the case majority of the world would be guilty.
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Peace
That is not at all the case and that is not a good comparison either. So what if one is on the end of getting charged riba? there is NO Quranic verse that backs up the claim of being guilty of being on that end. One can come up with certain things but its not there simple as that.
How is that not a good comparison. You are not allowed to eat pork. If you sell pork, you are helping another person do something that is Haram. You are not allowed to consume riba. If you pay someone the interest, it helps them do something that is Haram. We are supposed to be brothers/sisters of one another, not help them doom their person. Not only is it aiding them with your money but you are further encouraging them to continue the practice. Do you think they will stop their practice if you continue to fund them? You (the person that pays them) are just as guilty of their crime.
Any form of interest is usury because you have to pay back more than you borrowed, which is a hardship. If you had to borrow 10,000 dollars for college to begin with, it is a great hardship to have to pay back 17,500 dollars or more.
And that really isn't a good comparison. A Muslim selling pork to a fellow Muslim is creating fitna, so it would be haraam. A Muslim that has no choice but to borrow money or pay rent and is charged interest is a victim and does not share guilt with the one charging interest. If that were the case majority of the world would be guilty.
If you both read my previous comments, you would see that it falls in line with your statements. Abdul-Hadi provided the quote from the Qur'an that if you cannot avoid it, then God is the forgiver. We just discussed the car insurance a couple posts up.
Now, if you WANT to buy a house and you cant afford it and therefore resort to riba, then again thats a problem. No one NEEDS a house. Quite the opposite from the car insurance.
Peace
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Now, if you WANT to buy a house and you cant afford it and therefore resort to riba, then again thats a problem. No one NEEDS a house. Quite the opposite from the car insurance.
Peace
I see the point you are trying to make with this but applying this to a realistic scenario where we live in a system where we can't just walk out into the woods and start chopping dow trees and build a house, most have no choice but to take a mortgage in which they would be charged interest to have a place to live. I do not think Allah intends anyone to remain homeless due to the oppressors in charge forcing riba on the population. That is causing hardship which Islam does not do.
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Peace
I see the point you are trying to make with this but applying this to a realistic scenario where we live in a system where we can't just walk out into the woods and start chopping dow trees and build a house, most have no choice but to take a mortgage in which they would be charged interest to have a place to live. I do not think Allah intends anyone to remain homeless due to the oppressors in charge forcing riba on the population. That is causing hardship which Islam does not do.
As I just mentioned, if you read my first posts, I agree with your consensus so long it is required and there are no other means.
Peace
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Peace
How is that not a good comparison. You are not allowed to eat pork. If you sell pork, you are helping another person do something that is Haram. You are not allowed to consume riba. If you pay someone the interest, it helps them do something that is Haram. We are supposed to be brothers/sisters of one another, not help them doom their person. Not only is it aiding them with your money but you are further encouraging them to continue the practice. Do you think they will stop their practice if you continue to fund them? You (the person that pays them) are just as guilty of their crime.
If you both read my previous comments, you would see that it falls in line with your statements. Abdul-Hadi provided the quote from the Qur'an that if you cannot avoid it, then God is the forgiver. We just discussed the car insurance a couple posts up.
Now, if you WANT to buy a house and you cant afford it and therefore resort to riba, then again thats a problem. No one NEEDS a house. Quite the opposite from the car insurance.
Peace
So by your logic, a person who walks the dangerous streets at night and a thief is tempted to come and steal from them, that person who walked the night is ALSO guilty just because of how he led the thief to steal cause he was a walking figure with some money?
Yeah real logic there rotfl If they are charging Riba and you accept, that doesn't make a difference cause it is THEIR fault for charging it and if you didn't accept, they would go on to the next person such as a thief would go to the next available victim on the streets if you aren't walking them.
Pork is completely differently. The person who sells pork is like the person who sells riba. The person who buys pork is doing a haram because the Quran specifically says you can't eat it. The person borrowing a college loan (which has riba) isn't doing haram cause the Quran DOESN'T state that that you are doing haram. That is just like a hadith by trying to come up with reasons behind a book that is suppose to be clear. If it was an issue, God would have told us. You think God would want our lives to be that hard and thus make it IMPOSSIBLE to go to college? or let alone live in the west? That clearly isn't the case with such a merciful God.
I see the point you are trying to make with this but applying this to a realistic scenario where we live in a system where we can't just walk out into the woods and start chopping dow trees and build a house, most have no choice but to take a mortgage in which they would be charged interest to have a place to live. I do not think Allah intends anyone to remain homeless due to the oppressors in charge forcing riba on the population. That is causing hardship which Islam does not do.
And in regards to that, this is also a reason why we being on the side that riba is pulled from us by those money grubbers is why I don't see how we can be guilty.
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Peace,
So by your logic, a person who walks the dangerous streets at night and a thief is tempted to come and steal from them, that person who walked the night is ALSO guilty just because of how he led the thief to steal cause he was a walking figure with some money?
Yeah real logic there rotfl If they are charging Riba and you accept, that doesn't make a difference cause it is THEIR fault for charging it and if you didn't accept, they would go on to the next person such as a thief would go to the next available victim on the streets if you aren't walking them.
Now your comparison makes no sense. If you are walking at night, you aren't engaging the person to commit the theft. You are minding your own business and haven't engaged the other person. You want to be left alone. With usury, you willingly engage in the act. No one forced you to do it. If you really believe that you aren't guilty, then that is your belief. In the end, we will all be judged by God.
Pork is completely differently. The person who sells pork is like the person who sells riba. The person who buys pork is doing a haram because the Quran specifically says you can't eat it. The person borrowing a college loan (which has riba) isn't doing haram cause the Quran DOESN'T state that that you are doing haram. That is just like a hadith by trying to come up with reasons behind a book that is suppose to be clear. If it was an issue, God would have told us. You think God would want our lives to be that hard and thus make it IMPOSSIBLE to go to college? or let alone live in the west? That clearly isn't the case with such a merciful God.
And in regards to that, this is also a reason why we being on the side that riba is pulled from us by those money grubbers is why I don't see how we can be guilty.
Who said that you needed to go to college? For education? You can gain education without college. For a job? If you work hard and are determined, you can get a good job. Many times you do not even need to pay for college. I'll take myself as a prime example. I did horrible in high school. No school would take me. Went to community college and was determined. I did volunteer service (still do) and that also enhanced my resume. When I went to university, much of my tuition was paid for. There are a lot of opportunities here in the US (not sure if you live here). I also worked while going to college, something that many students refuse to do because they rather have a good time.
Now my story is just a way to circumvent taking out interests. There are alternatives, but people are either too lazy or are just plain ignorant.
I don't believe college is bad, but I think that in today's world it is made out to be more than it really is. That's why, if it is for education, you can go to the library, use the internet, etc. and gain the knowledge. If you're doing it to make a lot of money, you can be a diligent worker and work your way up. I know many people that have started literally from the bottom (janitors) and became managers making a great living.
Also if it is a money issue, then remember Allah. Money is not everything. So long you live with a roof over your head, with food for your mouths, that is sufficient. The more money you have, the more responsibilities you have as well. For many people, money should be the last thing that they want. They complain that its hard to get by but when their money increases, so too does their wasteful spending.
As I mentioned, I am not an opponent of higher learning but people really need to think it through before drawing out their future plans. If interest needs to be taken out, then I think you should do as much as possible to eliminate the need, such as working, getting good grades, volunteering, etc. If all else fails and you need loans, then God is forgiver. However, if you just resort to taking out loans without exhausting all other options then theres a problem. I have some friends that are like that and its despicable. The problem is that people take loans after loans out and use it as a crutch.
Peace
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Peace,
Now your comparison makes no sense. If you are walking at night, you aren't engaging the person to commit the theft. You are minding your own business and haven't engaged the other person. You want to be left alone. With usury, you willingly engage in the act. No one forced you to do it. If you really believe that you aren't guilty, then that is your belief. In the end, we will all be judged by God.
Who said that you needed to go to college? For education? You can gain education without college. For a job? If you work hard and are determined, you can get a good job. Many times you do not even need to pay for college. I'll take myself as a prime example. I did horrible in high school. No school would take me. Went to community college and was determined. I did volunteer service (still do) and that also enhanced my resume. When I went to university, much of my tuition was paid for. There are a lot of opportunities here in the US (not sure if you live here). I also worked while going to college, something that many students refuse to do because they rather have a good time.
Now my story is just a way to circumvent taking out interests. There are alternatives, but people are either too lazy or are just plain ignorant.
I don't believe college is bad, but I think that in today's world it is made out to be more than it really is. That's why, if it is for education, you can go to the library, use the internet, etc. and gain the knowledge. If you're doing it to make a lot of money, you can be a diligent worker and work your way up. I know many people that have started literally from the bottom (janitors) and became managers making a great living.
Also if it is a money issue, then remember Allah. Money is not everything. So long you live with a roof over your head, with food for your mouths, that is sufficient. The more money you have, the more responsibilities you have as well. For many people, money should be the last thing that they want. They complain that its hard to get by but when their money increases, so too does their wasteful spending.
As I mentioned, I am not an opponent of higher learning but people really need to think it through before drawing out their future plans. If interest needs to be taken out, then I think you should do as much as possible to eliminate the need, such as working, getting good grades, volunteering, etc. If all else fails and you need loans, then God is forgiver. However, if you just resort to taking out loans without exhausting all other options then theres a problem. I have some friends that are like that and its despicable. The problem is that people take loans after loans out and use it as a crutch.
Peace
As a quranist realize that the book which we always quote about how it contains everything and is complete would tell us of such a case if it indeed was a sin. It doesn't so and all examples are always directed at those who charge it. But it is your belief in the end and clearly neither of us can convince each other in the end, so it's your belief and therefore i'm done here.
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Peace,
There is no hard feelings at all. We do not know everything and the whole point of the forums is for us to grow and learn from each other. I could be wrong on the issue but I am only using common sense and the summation of the entire message of the Qur'an, not a nitpick for verses. I've been proven wrong many times and when it happens I change my course and try for the better. Hopefully others will do the same when they see the error in their ways instead of being arrogant. Whether you or I am right, we will all answer to God for our actions. Our selfishness will not save us in the least.
Peace
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Peace,
There is no hard feelings at all. We do not know everything and the whole point of the forums is for us to grow and learn from each other. I could be wrong on the issue but I am only using common sense and the summation of the entire message of the Qur'an, not a nitpick for verses. I've been proven wrong many times and when it happens I change my course and try for the better. Hopefully others will do the same when they see the error in their ways instead of being arrogant. Whether you or I am right, we will all answer to God for our actions. Our selfishness will not save us in the least.
Peace
I hear you, though when you say selfishness you aren't referring to me are you? because realize that I clearly wouldn't want them to charge riba but being in the west that is what any type of loan is based on. Credit Card, insurance, student loan and more, therefore I feel that if they wanna be selfish enough to charge, it is their own fault. I just want a loan that I can pay back later when I have enough to do so. Plus they are doing riba no matter what, so even if not with me, it would be with someone else. Sure if it was your friend who wanted to charge you Riba and therefore if you rejected it would be best as you and prevented him from doing haram and I would assume would be a reward for you, but even then I wouldn't think it be a sin as the God wouldn't judge you for something that isn't mentioned.
Anyways that is my view and I respect yours too. You're belief and my belief. NOW i'm out...
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Peace
I hear you, though when you say selfishness you aren't referring to me are you? because realize that I clearly wouldn't want them to charge riba but being in the west that is what any type of loan is based on. Credit Card, insurance, student loan and more, therefore I feel that if they wanna be selfish enough to charge, it is their own fault. I just want a loan that I can pay back later when I have enough to do so. Plus they are doing riba no matter what, so even if not with me, it would be with someone else. Sure if it was your friend who wanted to charge you Riba and therefore if you rejected it would be best as you and prevented him from doing haram and I would assume would be a reward for you, but even then I wouldn't think it be a sin as the God wouldn't judge you for something that isn't mentioned.
Anyways that is my view and I respect yours too. You're belief and my belief. NOW i'm out...
I am not referring to you, but to all of us (me too). Sometimes our selfishness (ego, etc.) can get in the way of our thinking and judgement. Just saying to all (myself as well) to keep an open mind to other peoples view points and that we can learn from each other. Looking at where a lot of us started, whether it be as Sunni, Shia, etc. we at one point held our beliefs at the time to be true. Now, we here at the forum have progressed from that way of thinking and now have divergent view points. The problem on these forums is that people easily get into stupid squabbles and start name calling each other or form a schism just because they have different opinions on issues. It's a sad but true reality.
God judges us on our intentions and our piety. If we continue to go on a path and we have been corrected (and we know that we are wrong) but continue to go on it due to our arrogance, then we are truely with the losers. Again, not directed at you, but just something for all of us to keep in mind (me included). Take care!
Now back to contributing to this thread, when thinking of riba, think about the socioeconomical reasons as to why this is heavily frowned upon. The things that are mentioned in the Qur'an relate to the Prophet and the times that he lived in. Riba is not necessarily just related to interest, but any profit or gain that requires no labor. Why is riba wrong? It disrupts the society in that people make a profit without putting in the labor. In other words, it takes away the balance of labor and wealth. That's my humble observation.
Peace