How can we understand chapter 105 without reference to any historical sources?
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I dislike the interpretation about the 60000 troops is because it depends on hearsay. Actual archaeological proofs and quranic verses together makes more sense I think.
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Peace
I dislike the interpretation about the 60000 troops is because it depends on hearsay. Actual archaeological proofs and quranic verses together makes more sense I think.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Elephant
Personally the historical aspect of it is not of importance for me. I personally get the idea of strategy as the main message of this sura.
Peace
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Shalom Aleikhom,
I do not know much about the "HISTORICAL" part of this. But everytime I read it... this is how my brain interprets it
Chapter 105
In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
1051 Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the "Mighty Tanks"?
1052 Did He not cause their plans to go astray?
1053 And He sent upon them formations of "Strategic Bombers" in flight.
1054 Striking them with fiery "Air to surface weapons".
1055 Until He turned them like devoured hay.This isnt necessarily what this Chapter stands for. I do realize that, but I cant help..lol. Take a look at these short videos to understand the devastation that AIR POWER can do in Bombing to MIGHTY ground troops. I do know that anti aircraft guns are available, but trust me, an aicraft can escape anti aircraft guns alot more effectively than a ground target can escape these bombings
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYnWTd8v8M
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYXdk-qTl5U&feature=related
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HH0uNLFuco&feature=related
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sks6D2l8erA&feature=related
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhS2YCpnIEY&feature=related
Just bare in mind that I am talking about AIR POWER on Mighty enemy ground forces, not on civilians. Since the time man learnt to use airpower, control over air became the decisive factor in combat. If you look at those videos you can imagine why. Similarly, if you can gather an airforce of as much birds as you can get and make them fly to their maximum altitude and drop tiny stones from that height, the stones will have enough kinetic energy to obliterate the ground force (elephants/horses/etc). The funny part of the lesson here is that God was being shown to be using superior technology, whereas these days the muslims are depending on poor technology. They have not learnt the lesson of using superior technology and better strategy. The lesson I get from THE BOOK is that "I" have to strive and excell, if "I" dont do it, I shouldnt expect any help. But in the muslim world, people are busy dressing up like the thief of Baghdad , wearing a cap and beard, eating dates and reciting durud on prophets family and expecting MIRACLE on the battlefield !! This is how Israel defeated 4 arab nations alone in 6 DAYS !! The mindset !!
Peace
-------------- Student of Allah -
That is an interesting understanding, cool! I however, find the style of the verses seem to be indicative of an event related to past people as it tells have you seen how we dealt with a certain people of the elephant. Which is why I agree with max q's translation in idea, but I am not sure if he stretched the arabic too far to get his translation and therefore if anyone knows arabic can they verify max q's translation?
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Salam,
My reading Sura 105 is historic, but it is speaking about the people of Lot.
The key phrase is "fiery rocks" which we see in another sura referring to the town of Lot.
The "elephant" would have been a symbol of these people.
An alternative way to look at it is as "Student" said...Using "out of the box" thinking and say that the town of Lot had mechanized vehicles "elephants" and that the destruction that God brought upon them was to be destroyed by bombers "jets"- thus Lot was told not to glance back as the blinding flash from the explosion would have destroyed his retina.
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Chapter 105
In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
1051 Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the "Mighty Tanks"?
1052 Did He not cause their plans to go astray?
1053 And He sent upon them formations of "Strategic Bombers" in flight.
1054 Striking them with fiery "Air to surface weapons".
1055 Until He turned them like devoured hay.Salaam,
Very interesting MashaAllah!
May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Peace Layth, why do you think it refers to people of Lut? Is there any evidence that elephants were associated with the people of Lut? Also, how come this understanding is not reflected in the monotheist translation of the quran?
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Salam,
Chapter 105
In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
1051 Have you not seen what your Lord did to the people of the elephant?
1052 Did He not cause their plans to go astray?
1053 And He sent upon them formations of birds in flight.
1054 Striking them with fiery projectiles.
1055 Until He turned them like devoured hay.I am wondering how can we understand this chapter without any reference to history and using the quran alone. Anyone has any ideas? Who are the people of the elephant described?
I think it sounds like the destruction of the people of Noah and Lot and others.
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Salam Matin,
Peace Layth, why do you think it refers to people of Lut? Is there any evidence that elephants were associated with the people of Lut? Also, how come this understanding is not reflected in the monotheist translation of the quran?
I have not looked at this from an archeological point - so I can't answer. However, I can say from this aspect that I believe the remains of the town of Lot to be the ancient town of "Qumran" located near the dead sea shore at the end of the Kidron valley (where the dead sea scrolls were found).
As for the Monotheist Translation, not sure what you mean by it not being reflected - the translation tries to be as literal as possible, so without the use of footnotes, people would have to make the link between the words used in 1054 and the same words used for Lot's town in 1182 and 1574.
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Perhaps it does not refer to one event, but a kind of recurring theme. Several armies in history tried to make use of the elephant, including the Sassanid Persians. I would imagine that an elephant decked out in armor would be an intimidating sight on the battlefield, a way of showing off one's tremendous military power to one's opponents. But elephants were never very effective in war. Perhaps it is an allegory for those who rely on impressive displays of power and might. In the end, God's power and might is greater. An elephant is as tall as a tower to a foot soldier, but what could be taller than God-sent birds in formation with fiery rock bombs?
-Joel
