Forgiveness for Shirk?
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So this has been a topic i've been looking into for a while.
Can someone who believed and then turned to shirk and then returned be forgiven of shirk?
Here we have these two verse
"God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin." -448
God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.
This would make one think that Shirk cannot be forgiven yet there are then these two verse
"And those who do not call on any other god with God; nor do they take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice; nor do they commit adultery. And whoever does will receive the punishment.The retribution will be doubled for him on the Day of Judgment and he will abide in it in disgrace. Except for the one who repents and believes and does good works, for those God will replace their sins with good, and God is Forgiving, Merciful." -2568-70
SayO My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of the mercy of God. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful." - 3953
The two later ones indicate that God forgives Shirk along with illigal sex and murder if one repents and does rightous deeds and that he forgives all sins in general.
So this is where I get stuck. I hear the first two are actually a reference to if one DIES without repenting from Shirk that God won't forgive them, while other sins might still be forgivable if they didn't repent while alive. Though I haven't seen too much evidence for this and would love it if it can be backed up.
Please provide some help here. Thank you ^_^
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Greetings and Peace, all group
In 448 and 4116, the word "be" is of significance. If the word was "been" it would mean that the partners are no longer associated. In other words, the association is active when forgiveness is not offered.
In 3953, one wonders whether shirk is a sin against self or a sin against ALLAH. hmm Granted, ALLAH acts but is not acted upon.
2568-70 leaves no doubt. It is interesting that the sin is replaced with good instead of continuing to exist and then being forgiven. One who has committed shirk can be forgiven if they have repented, if the repenter believes in ALLAH, if the repenter does good works, and if ALLAH wills.
There is a caveat 4137 Those who believed, then rejected, then believed, then rejected, then they increased in rejection; GOD was not to forgive them nor to guide them to the path.
Repeat shirk is inadvisable!
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
In 448 and 4116, the word "be" is of significance. If the word was "been" it would mean that the partners are no longer associated. In other words, the association is active when forgiveness is not offered.
In 3953, one wonders whether shirk is a sin against self or a sin against ALLAH. hmm Granted, ALLAH acts but is not acted upon.
2568-70 leaves no doubt. It is interesting that the sin is replaced with good instead of continuing to exist and then being forgiven. One who has committed shirk can be forgiven if they have repented, if the repenter believes in ALLAH, if the repenter does good works, and if ALLAH wills.
There is a caveat 4137 Those who believed, then rejected, then believed, then rejected, then they increased in rejection; GOD was not to forgive them nor to guide them to the path.
Repeat shirk is inadvisable!
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
AAHHH group I honestly would hug you out of how you clarified that up so nicely ^_^
Hmm but its quite interesting for one who is a polytheist to ask for forgiveness for doing it... then again God has mentioned how a lot do it without realizing it like the Christians.
and yeah it makes sense why it turns to good considering all the good one might have done during that time that would have went to waste, otherwise an old man has little chance vs all the previous sin that he has done P
Regardless thank you so much ^_^
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As-Salaam Alaikum
I once heard a sheik say that when it comes to being forgiven for sins, think of the most forgiving person you know whether it be your mom, an associate, or yourself. If there is a transgression that you know someone like your mom would forgive you for or you would forgive if the transgression is against you, than Allah will surely forgive if you repent simply because His attribute is Most Merciful. Therefore, no one is more forgiving than Allah.
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How do define shirk?
Al-Hujweri said worship is shirk because worship demands duality which is (polytheism) because it establishes multiplicity of being."
"Worship demands duality and duality is separation. It is when duality vanishes, that oneness with the Divine Beloved is achieved" Hadhrat Rabbani in "The Kashful Mahjub"
Ahmed Hulusi-Thoughts on the matter.
"MOST SURELY POLYTHEISM IS A GRIEVOUS OPPRESSION (SIN)!" (3113)
Why is it a "SIN," an "OPPRESSION" (zulm)? Who is
"OPPRESSED?"It is "oppression on your self," a sin "against your own true self !"
Having been quite veiled of your own truth, your own essence, your original being, you worship a DIETY off in the heights somewhere, out there beyond yourself, and as such you fall into a polytheism against "ALLAH" by ascribing a partner to HU. Eventually, that polytheism leaves you deprived of countless qualities all available within the reality of your own self! Here, this is the greatest oppression you ever bring on your self, on your own self!
In point of fact, the ever ultimate oppression on yourself is to remain deprived of the reality of your own SELF".
The rule that "he who does not know himself cannot know his Lord (Rabb)" results from the statement that "He who knows himself knows his Lord."
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How do define shirk?
Al-Hujweri said worship is shirk because worship demands duality which is (polytheism) because it establishes multiplicity of being."
"Worship demands duality and duality is separation. It is when duality vanishes, that oneness with the Divine Beloved is achieved" Hadhrat Rabbani in "The Kashful Mahjub"
Ahmed Hulusi-Thoughts on the matter.
"MOST SURELY POLYTHEISM IS A GRIEVOUS OPPRESSION (SIN)!" (3113)
Why is it a "SIN," an "OPPRESSION" (zulm)? Who is
"OPPRESSED?"It is "oppression on your self," a sin "against your own true self !"
Having been quite veiled of your own truth, your own essence, your original being, you worship a DIETY off in the heights somewhere, out there beyond yourself, and as such you fall into a polytheism against "ALLAH" by ascribing a partner to HU. Eventually, that polytheism leaves you deprived of countless qualities all available within the reality of your own self! Here, this is the greatest oppression you ever bring on your self, on your own self!
In point of fact, the ever ultimate oppression on yourself is to remain deprived of the reality of your own SELF".
The rule that "he who does not know himself cannot know his Lord (Rabb)" results from the statement that "He who knows himself knows his Lord."
As-Salaam Alaikum
That was beautifully spoken.
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So to wrap up a few things.
@Abdul Hadi
In the the end the idea of partners BEEN set up with him vs partners BE set up with him are different from each other. With "BE set up" with him being in present tense would be unforgivable but once it goes into past tense "been set up with him" it becomes forgivable.
Also does the arabic agree with this past tense-present tense grammar here?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
So to wrap up a few things.
@Abdul Hadi
In the the end the idea of partners BEEN set up with him vs partners BE set up with him are different from each other. With "BE set up" with him being in present tense would be unforgivable but once it goes into past tense "been set up with him" it becomes forgivable.
Also does the arabic agree with this past tense-present tense grammar here?
To my knowledge this is the case. I'm not a native Arabic speaker--but I do use resources such as Corpus Quran, (http//corpus.quran.com/) to cross reference by using AQ to verify itself/clarify meaning. In this matter I have no doubt, but a native Arabic speaker can verify--no harm.
448 GOD does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with GOD has indeed invented a great sin.
18110 Say "I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him do good works, and not serve anyone besides his Lord."
364 Say "O people of the Book, let us come to a common understanding between us and between you; that we serve none except GOD, and that we do not set up anything with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons besides GOD." If they turn away, then say "Bear witness that we have submitted."
6107 And if GOD had willed, they would not have set up partners . And We did not place you over them as a guardian, nor are you over them as a sponsor.
3151 We will cast terror in the hearts of those who have rejected, because of what they have set up besides GOD while He never sent down any authority to do so, and their destiny is the Fire. Miserable is the abode of the wicked.
Do you see how it is imperfect tense in 448 and 364, but perfect tense in 6107 and 3151?
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
To my knowledge this is the case. I'm not a native Arabic speaker--but I do use resources such as Corpus Quran, (http//corpus.quran.com/) to cross reference by using AQ to verify itself/clarify meaning. In this matter I have no doubt, but a native Arabic speaker can verify--no harm.
448 GOD does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with GOD has indeed invented a great sin.
18110 Say "I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him do good works, and not serve anyone besides his Lord."
364 Say "O people of the Book, let us come to a common understanding between us and between you; that we serve none except GOD, and that we do not set up anything with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons besides GOD." If they turn away, then say "Bear witness that we have submitted."
6107 And if GOD had willed, they would not have set up partners . And We did not place you over them as a guardian, nor are you over them as a sponsor.
3151 We will cast terror in the hearts of those who have rejected, because of what they have set up besides GOD while He never sent down any authority to do so, and their destiny is the Fire. Miserable is the abode of the wicked.
Do you see how it is imperfect tense in 448 and 364, but perfect tense in 6107 and 3151?
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
ooh you use that site eh sun
but yeah seems to now make perfect sense. Thus no wonder why we always hear one mention how only if you die on it will you not be forgiven as it only talks about the current condition and thus makes it clear that once you die in that condition as with all sins, that is the condition you will stay in and can't repent for them past death either. While God might forgive any other sin past death, he has stated he won't for this as this is the condition that they died in.
Well i'm now pretty satisfied and thank you so much ^_^
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To support Abdul-Hadi
This is a good contextual basis/self-reference for 448
{30}
And whatever affliction befalls you, it is on account of what your hands have wrought, and (yet) He pardons most (of your faults).A lot of the time we are not even aware of the severity of our actions. Some things might seem good to us but hateful in reality to God. As we do bad deeds, many/most of them are forgiven and we are punished for some too in this life. Idolatry is always punished - as opposed to being forgiven when God pleases like the other evils.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
@Aryan Warrior My pleasure! sun
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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How do define shirk?
Al-Hujweri said worship is shirk because worship demands duality which is (polytheism) because it establishes multiplicity of being."
"Worship demands duality and duality is separation. It is when duality vanishes, that oneness with the Divine Beloved is achieved" Hadhrat Rabbani in "The Kashful Mahjub"
Ahmed Hulusi-Thoughts on the matter.
"MOST SURELY POLYTHEISM IS A GRIEVOUS OPPRESSION (SIN)!" (3113)
Why is it a "SIN," an "OPPRESSION" (zulm)? Who is
"OPPRESSED?"It is "oppression on your self," a sin "against your own true self !"
Having been quite veiled of your own truth, your own essence, your original being, you worship a DIETY off in the heights somewhere, out there beyond yourself, and as such you fall into a polytheism against "ALLAH" by ascribing a partner to HU. Eventually, that polytheism leaves you deprived of countless qualities all available within the reality of your own self! Here, this is the greatest oppression you ever bring on your self, on your own self!
In point of fact, the ever ultimate oppression on yourself is to remain deprived of the reality of your own SELF".
The rule that "he who does not know himself cannot know his Lord (Rabb)" results from the statement that "He who knows himself knows his Lord."
Then how does one take only God as ones lord then?