Transalation of proper names of AQ?

NOMAD

Salaam brothers and sisters sun

I dont know if someone asked for this already, but i wish to know what is your opinion in keeping the original names of all places and people of the AQ, EX Maryam (not Mary) Isa (not Jesus) Fir?won (not pharao) Misr (not Egypt) etc..

Its just an opinion to accurate translations..at least gives space to each one to interpret and search respective words and roots.. sun

Salaam hope i made explain my point of view... Allah knows best

Confused

But why? To make it more authentic?

I've always found it weird that Western Muslims and Muslims in general refer to God as Allah when speaking in English, to the extent that many Western non-Muslims now think that Muslims worship a God called Allah, when Allah just happens to be the Arabic word for God and nothing more. I've heard both Arab Muslims and Christians use it. But some people think that Allah is a God that Muslims believe in the same was as Jesus is a God that Christians believe in.

The funny thing is that in Egypt we rarely ever use the word Allah when talking. It's considered too formal. Usually in conversation we just refer to him as "rabena" which is another Arabic word for God.

Sorry I hijacked your thread -[

NOMAD

Salaam sun

Well i can give this exemple According to the Quran, Zakariah (P) was the man who took care of Maryam (P), after her father (Amran) had died. She lived with him in some kind of sanctuary. The Quran also tells us that Zakariah's wife gave birth, at an advanced age, to Yahia.
So Yahia was the son of Zakariah, and he has nothing whatosever to do with "John" or "Johann" the Baptist, who lived during the age of Jesus the carpenter`s sun

Amran, Moses, Aaron, Maryam, Isa (Maryam's son), Zakariah, and Yahia all lived and died in Arabia, in or around the city of Najran (the craddle of the Nasara) over 1000 years before Jesus appeared in Palestine.

History of Firwon of Misr vs fake pharaoa of Egypt have same characteristics.

If we keep the original names of Locations and People will satrt to become sense and at least we can research for ourselfs the origns and roots in them. )

Well other foundament is that when you have some book and nowadays movies or else, Proper names of persons and places keep the same, unleast its what ive been tought in translation classes ive had in School...

So my name is Duarte how will you translate to Arabyk?

My city is called Today Lisboa ( Lisbon in portuguese) but it means nothing in portuguese... its adopetd from old Phonicians that Called by it Allis Ubbo ( means secure port; House), than Romans adopt (olissipo) then Arab/berber entrance they called ( (al-Lixb?n?) or (al-Ushbuna) i just dont know if means the same as in Phonecian but i bet is the best acurate name after the original one ) and the Vandal Kings came and translate to Lisboa but means nothing in our language..so the OBJECTIVE ORIGIN of this city name is LOST.

Hope these are good motives and opinions to keep names of People, Places,Lands, in their original. sun

SALAAM

huruf

May be Allah is obvious, but on the whole I find Nomad's proposal very wise in that that way the Quran is not compromised but attributions that have nothing to do with it. We will alawys know that the people or places we are talking about are those of the Qur'an and in the extent that the
Qur'am deals with them, and will not be conditioned by what other traditions or books have done with them.

I agree with Nomad.

Salaam

Confused

Salaam sun

Well i can give this exemple According to the Quran, Zakariah (P) was the man who took care of Maryam (P), after her father (Amran) had died. She lived with him in some kind of sanctuary. The Quran also tells us that Zakariah's wife gave birth, at an advanced age, to Yahia.
So Yahia was the son of Zakariah, and he has nothing whatosever to do with "John" or "Johann" the Baptist, who lived during the age of Jesus the carpenter`s sun

Amran, Moses, Aaron, Maryam, Isa (Maryam's son), Zakariah, and Yahia all lived and died in Arabia, in or around the city of Najran (the craddle of the Nasara) over 1000 years before Jesus appeared in Palestine.

History of Firwon of Misr vs fake pharaoa of Egypt have same characteristics.

If we keep the original names of Locations and People will satrt to become sense and at least we can research for ourselfs the origns and roots in them.

Well other foundament is that when you have some book and nowadays movies or else, Proper names of persons and places keep the same, unleast its what ive been tought in translation classes ive had in School...

So my name is Duarte how will you translate to Arabyk?

My city is called Today Lisboa ( Lisbon in portuguese) but it means nothing in portuguese... its adopetd from old Phonicians that Called by it Allis Ubbo ( means secure port; House), than Romans adopt (olissipo) then Arab/berber entrance they called ( (al-Lixb?n?) or (al-Ushbuna) i just dont know if means the same as in Phonecian but i bet is the best acurate name after the original one ) and the Vandal Kings came and translate to Lisboa but means nothing in our language..so the OBJECTIVE ORIGIN of this city name is LOST.

Hope these are good motives and opinions to keep names of People, Places,Lands, in their original. sun

SALAAM

Yes I see what you mean now and I agree. If we do this we could eliminate a lot of confusion.

GODsubmitter

agreed group

sun
)

NOMAD

Salaam

Thanks for this supoort to keeo proper names of Places and people, unleast is a way that we not fall in same old EURO-arabi folks,
well i wish brother Layth see this post and helps us in this taskD

FOr a translation of AQ free of romangreek misconceptions sun

Salaam

Layth

Peace Nomad,

As brother Confused initially pointed out, leaving a word or name in Arabic, when you are speaking English, is completely to disregard the point of a "translation" - which is, when possible, to convey the words of the Quran in a language that the recepient can relate to and understand (so Allah becomes God, etc.).

From your thread, I see you are raising this because of the new trend of Najraan and Misr being in Arabia.

I have already pointed out when these ideas were originally being formulated that the entire premise of Misr being other than Egypt was a false foundation - upon which an entire false retelling of the Quran has now taken place - which has meant that certain characters need to be shifted in time and place!

mmkhan

As brother Confused initially pointed out, leaving a word or name in Arabic, when you are speaking English, is completely to disregard the point of a "translation" - which is, when possible, to convey the words of the Quran in a language that the recepient can relate to and understand (so Allah becomes God, etc.).

Salaam,

Names are names that cannot be translated in any language. What will you call me in other language? I always use original names in my posts as mentioned in AlQuraan .

AlQuraan will be translated as Bible in near future? ??? Allah is not a name, so it can be translated as God.

Sorry, I disagree with translating the names.

May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan

NOMAD

Salaam to all

Thanks M.Khan i really apreciate your opinion, is the same as mine, of course some people still not/dont want to see this basci p+oint of vie...

@LAYTH by your order of translation you forgot to translate Zul.qarnain as 2 horned hmm
I think transltaions are just to fit Agendas somehow...im not trying to have a rude attitude with you, dont think that, but i was wonder how you trnslate some names and other no... nope

But surly your knowledge of Islam is above my Gentile intelect.. ;D

Salaam

Layth

Dear Nomad,

No need for the sarcasm simply because we are not in agreement.

How many names are in the Quran and how many have not been translated to their English counterparts in the FM translation (15%?).

If you asked me 'why' those names in partcular were not translated - rather than jumping to conclusions - I would have explained that, at this point, there is some doubt to the proper Arabic meaning associated - which is why they have been left as is.

Zul Qarnain in the current version of the FM translation is translated as "Two Horned". However, the word "Qarn" also denotes a timeframe in Arabic, an "Era," so he could be "Two Eras" - which might explain the reason for the delay in translation.

Every name has a meaning....Even "Khan" who said there is no meaning to his name is wrong, as the word "Khan" means "King/Leader".

Now, I go back and ask why you started this thread with a request to keep the names - associated with the new Asir theory as indicated in your second thread - as they are rather than convey their English meanings. Who is trying to fit agendas here?

Regards,

MaverickMonotheist

Salaam brothers and sisters sun

I dont know if someone asked for this already, but i wish to know what is your opinion in keeping the original names of all places and people of the AQ, EX Maryam (not Mary) Isa (not Jesus) Fir?won (not pharao) Misr (not Egypt) etc..

Its just an opinion to accurate translations..at least gives space to each one to interpret and search respective words and roots.. sun

Salaam hope i made explain my point of view... Allah knows best

I think it is unscholarly to do so. It does not take into account how names are transliterated across different languages over time. They are similar enough by both pronunciation and contextual stories to do so. It also helps non-muslim readers from Jewish or Christian backgrounds see that the Quran is not a book from outside their own experience with God.

Hebrew Miriam
Greek Mariam
Latin Mary

Hebrew Mitzraim (tribulation/suffering - notice similarity to Quran word Misr), Nahar (large river), among others
Greek Aigyptou (transliteration of an Egyptian word referring to the god Ptah), Potomos (large river), among others
Latin Egypt

Hebrew Yoshua (YHWH will save), Y'shua (salvation)
Greek Iesou(s) (transliteration of Y'shua, case ending changed depending on function in Greek grammar)
Latin Iesou(s) (later Latin speakers changed the "I" sound into a "J&quot

"Pharoah" is a title used around the time of Thutmose, and is Egyptian for "Great House". The Quran transliterated it - as the Quran does for most of the proper names from other languages.

All of this seems aimed at disconnecting the Quran from its roots in the same religion and covenant as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Jesus. If so, this is not a good thing.

NOMAD

Salaam

Not meaning to be rudo but here?s the answer Somehow an araby speaker Translation professor still have some copetency http//support-gaza.com/download/Translated_Quran.pdf

It was only this i Asked, Somehow im not asking nothing new as you see..no direct translation of names, DR.Mahmud Gali Puts () for his conclusion, and not take it as general point of view.. He is a Translator, i think he knows what he is doing.. sun

122Transliteration
Inna anzalnahu qur-ananAAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloon
122Translation
Surely We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, that possibly you would consider.

1317Transliteration
Wakathalika anzalnahu hukmanAAarabiyyan wala-ini ittabaAAta ahwaahum baAAda majaaka mina alAAilmi ma laka mina Allahi minwaliyyin wala waq
1317Translation
And thus We have sent it down as Arabic judgment. And indeed in case you ever follow their prejudices after what has come to you of knowledge, in no way will you have from Allah a patron, nor a protector.

16103Transliteration
Walaqad naAAlamu annahum yaqooloona innamayuAAallimuhu basharun lisanu allathee yulhidoonailayhi aAAjamiyyun wahatha lisanun AAarabiyyunmubeen
16103Translitation
And indeed We already know that they say, "Surely only a mortal is teaching him." The tongue of him about whom they blaspheme is foreign, and this is an evident Arabic tongue.

20113Transliteration
Wakathalika anzalnahu qur-ananAAarabiyyan wasarrafna feehi mina alwaAAeedilaAAallahum yattaqoona aw yuhdithu lahum thikra
20113Translation
And thus We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, and We have propounded in it of threats, that possibly they would be pious or it would effect in them remembrance.

26195Transliteration
Bilisanin AAarabiyyin mubeen
26195Translation
In an evident, Arabic tongue.

39-28Transliteration
Qur-anan AAarabiyyan ghayra theeAAiwajin laAAallahum yattaqoon
39-28Translation
An Arabic Qu?ran, without comprising any crookedness, that possibly they would be pious.

413Transliteration
Kitabun fussilat ayatuhuqur-anan AAarabiyyan liqawmin yaAAlamoon414 TransliterationBasheeran wanatheeran faaAAradaaktharuhum fahum la yasmaAAoon
413Translation
A Book whose ayat (Verses, sigs) have been expounded, an Arabic Qur'an for a people who know,414 Transliteration
Bearing) good tidings and a warning; yet most of them veered away, so they do not hear.

42-7Transliteration
Wakathalika awhaynailayka qur-anan AAarabiyyan litunthira omma alqurawaman hawlaha watunthira yawma aljamAAi larayba feehi fareequn fee aljannati wafareequn fee assaAAeer
42-7Translation
And thus We have revealed to you an Arabic Qur'an, that you may warn the Mother of the Towns and whomever are around it, and to warn of the Day of Gathering, wherein there is no suspicion a group in the Garden, and a group in the Blaze.

433Transliteration
Inna jaAAalnahu qur-ananAAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona
433Translation
Surely We have made it an Arabic Qur'an that possibly you would consider;

4612Transliteration
Wamin qablihi kitabu moosa imamanwarahmatan wahatha kitabun musaddiqunlisanan AAarabiyyan liyunthira allatheena thalamoowabushra lilmuhsineen
4612Translation
And before it was the Book of Musa, a leader and a mercy; and this is a Book sincerely, in the Arabic tongue, to warn the ones who do injustice, and good tidings to the fair-doers.

I spoke with no arrogance or srcasm when i put Quran and enough evidences for this issue. But I have my Deen you ve yours, in the end Allah(The Creator) will be the judge between what we differ, Altought tolerance kindness & respect above all group

Salaam to all and may Allah(The Creator) give us the enlighment that we can ponder,meditate, and think wisly,

MaverickMonotheist

From Gali's introduction

"... hoping that the time will soon come when more and more Muslims will be motivated to master the Divine language and
the message of the Glorious Qur'an. Failure o understand the teachings of the Qur'an will inevitably lead all humanity, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, into instability, turmoil, tribulation and universal tragedy."

The problem lies in what I put in bold. It is a serious error to assume that Arabic is a divine language. The Torah was revealed in Hebrew, but it is not a divine language. Aramaic is not a divine language, Arabic is not a divine language, English is not a divine language. No language is divine!

GODsubmitter

Thank you NOMAD for the link of yet another translation of AQ in English! sun

Always useful to compare...

NOMAD

Salaam

Hebrew Yoshua (YHWH will save), Y'shua (salvation)
Greek Iesou(s) (transliteration of Y'shua, case ending changed depending on function in Greek grammar)
Latin Iesou(s) (later Latin speakers changed the "I" sound into a "J&quot

Arabyk Yeshoo not ISA

Anyway To say Jesus from 2012 years ago is Same as ISA Ibna Maryam sister of Harun and Musa is Incoerent and you will finish yourself telling that AQ is wrong, you will say Muhamed made a mistake or Even Say Allah made it just to fullfil the Yeshoo(Jesus in arab) from Palestine wich has nothing to do with Isa the Prophet "word of God" ibna Maryam.

Will just become equal to these brothers who say AQ is mistaken yeah

""The Virgin Mary

In many places, the Qur'an mentions Mary as the sister of Moses and Aaron and the daughter of Imran. The Qur'an has confused Jesus' mother with Aaron's sister because both of them carry the same name, though there are several centuries between them. The Qur'an indicates that Mary (Christ's mother) had a brother whose name was Aaron (chapter 192 and a father whose name is Imran (chapter 6612). Their mother was called "the wife of Imran" (chapter 335) which eliminates any doubt that it confuses Mary, mother of Jesus, with Mary, sister of Aaron.

Muslim scholars acknowledge what happened and they are confused and fail in their desperate attempts to justify this grave error. Their contradictory interpretations fail to help them to find a solution to this dilemma. Let us examine these interpretations to see these conflicting views.

In the context of his comment on the Qur'anic statement that Mary is Aaron's sister (which is recorded in chapter 192, al-Baydawi (p. 405) said,

"Oh, sister of Aaron (the prophet). And she was an offspring of some of those who were with him who belonged to the same class of brotherhood. It was also said that she was one of Aaron's descendants though there were a thousand years between them. It was said too, that he (Aaron) was a righteous or a wicked man who lived during their time (time of Mary). They likened her to him to ridicule her or to insult her."

Yet Baydawi's statement is repealed by the Qur'an because the Qur'an did not refer to a moral relationship but stressed the literal meaning. If the Qur'an had meant to elevate Mary to the same level of Aaron, the prophet, or to the status of a daughter of Imran, why then did it mention that her mother was the wife of Imran as it is recorded in chapter 335? It is very obvious that the matter was either confused in the mind of Muhammad or of Gabriel, the angel! It is not acceptable that the Qur'an intended to say that Mary enjoys the same status as a sister of Aaron and a daughter of Imran. Therefore it is impossible to treat Mary (the mother of Jesus) as if she were the sister of Aaron and Moses.

The contemporary scholar who translated the Qur'an which was authorized by the Saudi authorities said (in the introduction of page 47 of chapter of the Family of Imran),

"Al Imran takes its title from v. 32, where the family of Imran' (the father of Moses) occurs as a generic name for all the Hebrew prophets from Moses to John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. This with the mention of the mother of Mary as the wife of Imran' (v. 34) and the words sister of Aaron' addressed to Mary (XIX.2 have given rise to a charge of anachronism. Some say that the prophet confused Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Mary, the sister of Moses. Most Muslims believe (on the authority of the Qur'an) that the grandfather of Jesus Christ was named Imran' which may also have been the name of the father of Moses. In Surah XIX 28 where Mary is addressed as `sister of Aaron', they hold the ancestral sense to be the more probable, while denying that there is any reason to suppose that the virgin Mary had not a brother named Aaron."

Thus, they fail to explain to us why the Qur'an said that the mother of Mary was the wife of Imran, especially if the Qur'an intended (as they say) to show the moral relationship only. It is an obvious historical mistake, my dear reader, because Mary had no brother named Aaron."

http//www.danielpipes.org/comments/110030

Exacly because of this, Muslims that say Isa is same as Jesus from Palestine just give space and reason for The cristian and Jew to say AQ is wrong, and unacurate and Prophet Muhamed with alucination..whatever.. i wont respond by my words next post-
I will only qute from Alcoran

Salaam handshake

MaverickMonotheist

Salaam

Anyway To say Jesus from 2012 years ago is Same as ISA Ibna Maryam sister of Harun and Musa is Incoerent and you will finish yourself telling that AQ is wrong, you will say Muhamed made a mistake or Even Say Allah made it just to fullfil the Yeshoo(Jesus in arab) from Palestine wich has nothing to do with Isa the Prophet "word of God" ibna Maryam.

Peace,

No, I would say that the phrase is a Hebraism used in many places in the Jewish prophets. The genealogies in the Jewish scriptures do this all the time. It means that she was descended from the family of Aaron and Moses. Zachariah (Zakariya) was a Levite, which was the tribe of Aaron and Moses. The gospels called Jesus a son of Adam, which meant, as the Quran says, that he was made in the image and likeness of Adam. This, and many other Hebraisms that are seen in the Torah and Gospels, show a continuous message in the Quran that is found in the Torah and Gospels. It is important for anyone reading the Quran to understand prior scripture, or else the reader will make many mistakes in interpretation.

-Joel

NOMAD

Salaam

Peace, somehow even in hebrew is easy to search

IN HEBREW OT

STRONG`s CONCORDANCE
Miryam a sister of Aaron,
Original Word
Transliteration Miryam
Phonetic Spelling (meer-yawm&#039
Short Definition Miriam

NAS EXAUSTIV CONCORDANCE
Word Origin
from the same as Merayah
Definition
a sister of Aaron,
NASB Word Usage
Miriam (15).

15 Occurrences

l?mir?ym ? 1 Occ.
mir?ym ? 11 Occ.
?mir?ym ? 3 Occ.

Exodus 1520
BIB
NAS Miriam the prophetess, Aaron's
KJV And Miriam the prophetess, the sister
INT took Miriam the prophetess sister

Exodus 1521
BIB
NAS Miriam answered them, Sing
KJV And Miriam answered them, Sing
INT answered Miriam Sing to the LORD

Numbers 121
BIB
NAS Then Miriam and Aaron spoke
KJV And Miriam and Aaron spake
INT spoke Miriam and Aaron Moses

Numbers 124
BIB
NAS and Aaron and to Miriam, You three
KJV and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out
INT Aaron and to Miriam come three

Numbers 125
BIB
NAS Aaron and Miriam. When they had both
KJV Aaron and Miriam and they both
INT called Aaron and Miriam come had both

Numbers 1210
BIB
NAS behold, Miriam leprous,
KJV from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam leprous,
INT the tent behold Miriam leprous snow

Numbers 1210
BIB
NAS toward Miriam, behold,
KJV looked upon Miriam, and, behold, leprous.
INT Aaron toward Miriam behold she leprous

Numbers 1215
BIB
NAS So Miriam was shut up outside
KJV And Miriam was shut out
INT was shut Miriam out the camp

Numbers 1215
BIB
NAS on until Miriam was received
KJV journeyed not till Miriam was brought
INT until was received Miriam

Numbers 201
BIB
NAS at Kadesh. Now Miriam died
KJV in Kadesh; and Miriam died
INT died there now Miriam was buried there

Numbers 2659
BIB
NAS and Moses and their sister Miriam.
KJV and Moses, and Miriam their sister.
INT Aaron and Moses Miriam and their sister

Deuteronomy 249
BIB
NAS did to Miriam on the way
KJV did unto Miriam by the way,
INT God your God to Miriam the way came

1 Chronicles 417
BIB
NAS and she conceived Miriam, Shammai
KJV and she bare Miriam, and Shammai,
INT and Jalon bare Miriam Shammai and Ishbah

1 Chronicles 63
BIB
NAS Moses and Miriam. And the sons
KJV and Moses, and Miriam. The sons
INT Aaron Moses and Miriam and the sons of Aaron

Micah 64
BIB
NAS you Moses, Aaron and Miriam.
KJV thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.
INT Moses Aaron and Miriam

Why they just dont translate Marya? oopss O0

I keep saying even in Portuguese or whatever all this are different names MIRI?(?=M), MARIA, MARISA, MARIANA, MARI, MIRNA, MARILDA,MARIETA, MariSTela, Majorie, whatever...
Each person have its own name, no translations.(point)
sun

Sallam and may Allah(The Creator) guide us into Enlightment peace pr

MaverickMonotheist

Peace NOMAD,

Lol, a Strong's Concordance is divided into sections for Hebrew words (Jewish Scriptures) and Greek words (Christian Scriptures). If you don't actually know the language, a Strong's search won't do you any good.

I'm not really sure what your point is with all of the proof-texting, so here's all I'm going to say. If you want to transliterate the names as they are, go ahead. BUT if you aere doing i to say that they are not the same as the people in the Torah and Gospel, then you are trying to rewrite history. Make whatever argument you want about the names themselves, the context connects them to the stories found in prior scripture.

Peace,
Joel

Salaam )