Transalation of proper names of AQ?
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In addition to the exegesis that Hoppean has wisely requested, I'd also like to see some scholarly etymology of "Injil" and "Tautar" and "Jahannam" and "Sabi'un" (and don't tell me it means Sabean. They worshipped the host of heaven). Since they are, as stated, "pure" Arabic.
At this point, all I'm getting from some of you is a lot of empty and insulting rhetoric, and not anything solid, scholarly, or rational.
Salaam MaverickMonotheist,
if I am one of them, then i am sorry, it was not my intention to insult you. I only tried to give my thoughts about the subject, but maybe you are right and had to choose better words, i am sorry for that.
Salaam,
bender -
What you have put yourself regarding the Qur'an is a lot of empty rhetoric, lacking anything solid, lacking knowledge of Arabic, not anything scholarly or rational, just preconceived stuff on what th Qur'an should be on not on what it is.
Salaam
really? because proponents of your false ideology wrongfully asserted that all the pagan deities of Noah found in this verse are bastardizations of loan words and not the actual names of his Gods since you believe they are from Iraq.
7121 And Noah said ?Lord, my people disobey me and follow those whose wealth and offspring will only hasten their perdition. They have devised an outrageous plot, and said to each other ?Do not renounce your gods. Do not forsake Wad or Sowa or Yaghuth or Ya?uq or Nasr.? ? They have led numerous men astray. You surely drive the wrongdoers to further error.?
All these Gods exist in Yemen by name to the letter, among its peoples tribes. find me any of these deities in Iraq since you believe you need the bible to understand the Quran. you reason no differen then a hadither. Salam
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Peace all.
Interesting point AlboDibran...
All these Gods exist in Yemen by name to the letter, among its peoples tribes. find me any of these deities in Iraq since you believe you need the bible to understand the Quran. you reason no differen then a hadithe
And yes, could we have this?
In addition to the exegesis that Hoppean has wisely requested, I'd also like to see some scholarly etymology of "Injil" and "Tautar" and "Jahannam" and "Sabi'un" (and don't tell me it means Sabean. They worshipped the host of heaven). Since they are, as stated, "pure" Arabic.
yes
Peace
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Peace all.
Interesting point AlboDibran...
And yes, could we have this?
yesPeace
Sure brother, here you are
- "And they have said (to each other), 'Abandon not your gods Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa', neither Yaguth nor Ya'uq, nor Nasr
I thought let me check the names of these pagan deities of Noahs people and see what I cant find.
"Wadd was a moon god worshipped in the Minaean kingdom (located in and around modern-day Yemen) of Southern Arabia from the fifth to first centuries BCE. His name meant ?Love? and/or ?Friendship,? and his sacred animal was the snake. "
(http//www.bythegods.net/post/556227042)
Yaguth
yaguth was a idol who was an object of contention among the tribes of Yemen and the name abd yaguth occurs in various parts of arabia, even in the tribe of Taghilib on the north eastern frontier, "had the shape of a lion"
Ya'uq and Suwa pagan deities of Yemen, inscriptions are still bound in temples and amulets in and around this region. Ya'uq was represented by a horse and Suwa was considered to be of antidilluvian times.
why do all these Gods of Noahs people occur in Yemen?
http//www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/The-Pagan-Arab-pantheon-2.aspx
Yes Wadd( not a bastardized word ), was the name of a pagan deity during the Minaen kingdom in and around modern day ----->Yemen<------- Not Iraq as so many Muslims will spew due to their false belief of historical geography by accepting bible stories. If we truthfully believe Quran is complete With nothing left out, then we must take anything not mentioned from any other text with a grain of salt until we can verify it. people like maverick believe the Quranic arabic borrows words from other languages, Allah says "its in a pure arabic tongue" and had it been "foreign" they would complain.
so since muslims believe as christians do that Noah was in Iraq it led them to assert(to justify their false beliefs) that the names of Noahs peoples deities are just "arabic bastardizations" of Iraqi deities. When this is not the case as is noted above.
Not one shred of evidence that these Gods of Noahs people were from Iraq, and better yet to ponder on is why would Allah name them all in order? perhaps as a sign to show his word stands clear of falsehood, and just like for year semetic languages origins have been from the south so to have these deities.
Allah tells us the messengers preached in the towns around the mother of towns, and that ad and thamud and people of Lut and Nuh were all nations succeeding EACH OTHER. but Muslims accept christian history and propagate the lies they are fed by saying they were seaparated by nations. which has left many holes logically and reasonably. In the end Allah knows best. but at the very LEAST anyone who claims the bible is needed to understand the Quran is just a blatant liar no different then one who takes hadith as guidance.
People can take it harsh, I am not trying to sound that way, just telling it straight, but to each their own. I will not ascribe to Allah other things.
Salam
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why do all these Gods of Noahs people occur in Yemen?
http//www.esamskriti.com/essay-chapters/The-Pagan-Arab-pantheon-2.aspx
Peace Albo -- says who that site; have you looked into this further?
7123 and they say not abandon your deities and not abandon wda/friendliest and not swaAa and not ygwth and yAwq and nsra/eagle
Forgotten Assyrian eagle god revived to name sports drink
http//www.theonion.com/articles/forgotten-assyrian-god-revived-to-name-sports-drin,2910/http//o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/2910/Forgotten-Assyrian-Jump-R_jpg_250x1000_q85.jpg
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really? because proponents of your false ideology wrongfully asserted that all the pagan deities of Noah found in this verse are bastardizations of loan words and not the actual names of his Gods since you believe they are from Iraq.
7121 And Noah said ?Lord, my people disobey me and follow those whose wealth and offspring will only hasten their perdition. They have devised an outrageous plot, and said to each other ?Do not renounce your gods. Do not forsake Wad or Sowa or Yaghuth or Ya?uq or Nasr.? ? They have led numerous men astray. You surely drive the wrongdoers to further error.?
All these Gods exist in Yemen by name to the letter, among its peoples tribes. find me any of these deities in Iraq since you believe you need the bible to understand the Quran. you reason no differen then a hadither. Salam
My message was not to you, but to Monotheist.Maverick in fact using his own words, partially, so he could see.
So you have got it all wrong. I guess it wasmy fault since I didnt quote the message I was answering.I hope this makes understandable what I was trying to say, and it is that you have toknow the Qur'an and the language it uses, Arabic, so that one does not go ahead and assume that any word you happen to think you know is not necessarily a loan word in Arabic, since there are, in the cases know Arabic roots which make senseful its inclusion in the Qur'an, that is, they make sense in the context by themselves, without having to look for any estraneous meaning through loan words.
Salaam
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Salaam MaverickMonotheist,
if I am one of them, then i am sorry, it was not my intention to insult you. I only tried to give my thoughts about the subject, but maybe you are right and had to choose better words, i am sorry for that.
Salaam,
benderPeace Bender,
I have no issues with anything you've said. )
huruf, Albo Dibran, whoever else,
I never said anything about Noah. At this point, there is Hoppean's request of exegesis of 541-49, and my request of etymology from Arabic of the terms injeel, taurat, jahannam, and sabi'un. Accusing me of not having any knowledge of Arabic, or saying the Quran was delivered in pure Arabic without dealing with these two points does not answer the question. It is a given that I don't know Arabic. For those of you that do, my question should be a simple one to answer.
And given that I've been called an evangelist, and told that I've exchanged one devil for another, the proof of my incorrect interpretation of the Quran should be easy to prove WITH EVIDENCE AND REASON and not opinion.
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Salaam
Everything is mentioned in the Qur'an Surah 10 ayah 61
Qur'an is the only book that exists from the very first day Torah means law, ZABOOR means PIECES and INJEEL means good news. These are all attributes of the Qur'an not the names of other books, like FURQAN, BURHAN, NOOR, HADAYAH, HIKMAA and many others.
The word Torah is mentioned 18 times in Qur'an but not mentioned with Hadhrat Moosa (pbuh).
Hadhrat Adam did not exist as a single man but Adam is the brand or mark or as a symbol (like Toyota is a car or Honda). They say the person with kalamat of Allah is ADAM. They say that Hawwaa never existed because the word Hawwaa or the word eve comes from the Bible. Also a tree which Adam eats as mentioned in Surah 2 ayat 30 to 39 is they say is mentioned in Surah IBHRAHIM AYAH 24 AND 25.
So acording to this Towrat (laws) are inside AQ (only after Musa)
Ingeel(good news) are inside the AQ
AQ the reading.Ill make a reuninion of Suras and ayas where these are correlateted and ill bring to you later on inshAllah
Well Maybe you just wrong in this blogsite, maybe is not free-minds.org, but instead,
www.freeminds.org O0 Jehova Witness
(just kiding brother) is nice to have different opinions so we cabn grow together learning and debating different points of view, we can all be different by tought, but is the common things that connect all of us to search and dig for truth, discussions sometimes get more "hot", but ayway we are MSLMS. each one with his /her own molecular and atomic explositions, propotions and balance.
Salaam/Peace/PAz sun
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My message was not to you, but to Monotheist.Maverick in fact using his own words, partially, so he could see.
So you have got it all wrong. I guess it wasmy fault since I didnt quote the message I was answering.I hope this makes understandable what I was trying to say, and it is that you have toknow the Qur'an and the language it uses, Arabic, so that one does not go ahead and assume that any word you happen to think you know is not necessarily a loan word in Arabic, since there are, in the cases know Arabic roots which make senseful its inclusion in the Qur'an, that is, they make sense in the context by themselves, without having to look for any estraneous meaning through loan words.
Salaam
Salam Huruf. No no I wasnt directing this towards you. my apologies for any misunderstanding.
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Peace NOMAD,
Qur'an is the only book that exists from the very first day Torah means law, ZABOOR means PIECES and INJEEL means good news. These are all attributes of the Qur'an not the names of other books, like FURQAN, BURHAN, NOOR, HADAYAH, HIKMAA and many others.
So these are meanings from the Arabic, right? You can point me to the roots for these words?
The word Torah is mentioned 18 times in Qur'an but not mentioned with Hadhrat Moosa (pbuh).
Honestly, that doesn't bother me too much. Jesus, in the Gospel of John (722), said that circumcision, although attributed to Moses, really came from "the fathers". There are things attributed to Moses in the Torah that are not from Moses. Ultimately, the question is whether or not the Torah is inspired from God and affirmed to be inspired by the Quran.
So acording to this Towrat (laws) are inside AQ (only after Musa)
Ingeel(good news) are inside the AQ
AQ the reading.It is an interesting idea, and I am willing to consider it, but what about the places where Torah and Gospel are referred to as something separate from the Quran? For instance, 4829 refers to the example of the righteous in the gospel, and parallels Mark 426-29. There is also the recurring phrase about the revelation of the Quran as something that "authenticates what is in his hands." (See 33 referring to the Quran confirming Torah and Gospel, 350 referring to the Gospel confirming what was in the hands of Jesus in the Torah, 546-48 referring to the gospel confirming the torah and the Quran confirming both of them, 616 as a repeat of Jesus stating that the revelation given to him is a confirmation of Torah, etc).
In other words, these verses seem to point to the Quran being something outside and separate from what was already in their hands.
Ill make a reuninion of Suras and ayas where these are correlateted and ill bring to you later on ) inshAllah
Looking forward to it. )
Well Maybe you just wrong in this blogsite, maybe is not free-minds.org, but instead,
www.freeminds.org O0 Jehova Witness
(just kiding brother) is nice to have different opinions so we cabn grow together learning and debating different points of view, we can all be different by tought, but is the common things that connect all of us to search and dig for truth, discussions sometimes get more "hot", but ayway we are MSLMS. each one with his /her own molecular and atomic explositions, propotions and balance.
Salaam/Peace/PAz sun
Lol, nooooo, I am certainly no JW. Even when the discussions have been heated, I've enjoyed it and I enjoy learning from you and others here. )
Peace,
Joel -
Salam everybody,
I think the discussion about names and places if they are the same or not is not relevant. This is history, even in the Quran we get names, we dont get exact places or time. All we get are people doing things, and they have names. What is relevant is to learn from what they did, why they did so and what was the respond from God. Simply to learn from their stories.
I think the names in Arabic are important in translations for the reason Nomad mentioned in the beginning, to be able to study the roots of names and maybe get more clues about these people. Because they mean something, every name means something in Arabic and its not a coincidence that God wanted us to know what those people were called, maybe it has to do with some qualities they had. Ex. Yahya derives from the root YHY and according to Project Root List means
Ha-Ya-Ya = (a doubly imperfect verb) To live, be alive, be ashamed, spend (the night) awake, fertilize the earth, keep anyone alive; spare any one, let anyone alive, remove prudency, modesty and shamefulness, make immodest, To be in good condition, have the means of subsistence, to be apparent or distinct, have prolonged or preserved life, free from evil or harm, have dominion, be honored, receive benefit, to salute, to enliven/revive/give life to, to nourish, vivify/re-vivify/revive/resuscitate, endue/quicken with life, (said of land) to be tilled and made productive, to remain awake, to shrink from a thing, to forbear, to feel or have a sense of or be moved or affected with shame/shyness/bashfulness, be ashamed/shy of doing a thing, disdain or scorn a thing, abstain from a thing/refuse to do it.
Dont we have to think about the meanings of a word in the Quran even if its a name? God chose to share the name with us.
I agree that a total translation or even a reform (Isa=Jesus) of a name is a bit misguiding. Regardless if they were the same person or not I think translators shall use the original names and then in brackets who they think those people were. Like in the translation posted earlier.There is so much we dont know about how Bible and Torah transformed gradually to a bunch of hadeeth, history is written by the winners so think about everything which is not mentioned in the history books about what happened to the God descended Injil and Tawrat and be humble about what you know and claim to be truth.
Peace!