Qur'an is the number 1 authority ?

_Ala_

Salam,
I think that was a very good example you gave about killing a murtad. I think you should put this post in a sunni forum, maybe some of them will think about it before rejecting.
Peace!

Student_of_Allah

Salam,
I think that was a very good example you gave about killing a murtad. I think you should put this post in a sunni forum, maybe some of them will think about it before rejecting.
Peace!

Shalom Aleikhom,

Please refer to this thread Fitna of Shalom

I almost got banned for saying Shalom Aleikhom, since most of them think that speaking Hebrew is being a Jew and being a Jew is worse than listening to Justin Beiber !! ok.. made up that Justin Beiber thing.. anyways.. they threatened me with ban for saying Shalom.

16125 Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.

Now you tell me..... will it be wise to get banned there and the topic removed at the same time ? Moreover, I don't like the atmosphere there. Many open liars. How can a person say that there is no difference between the Fiqhs (school of thoughts) and get away with it ?? Ofcourse the rest of the crowd applauds and says "Zazakh Allah Khair ..or whatever". The only reason I still visit such places is because I can not judge whom God will grant guidance and whom He will not. Based on that, I may rearrange the write up and post there. But seriously, visit the thread I referred above.

By the way, welcome to FM.

Peace
----------- Student of Allah

Bigmo

Shalom Aleikhom,

Anyone who heard a traditional islamic lecture or spoke to a traditional muslim regarding scriptures concerning the principles of Islam probably heard about this hierarchy system

Al-Qur'an
Hadith attributed to messenger
Understanding of 2. by companions
Understanding of 3. by scholars
Obey what you hear from 4. (for a general muslim)

I am not after the 5th part. I want to know just what makes Al-Qur'an number one.

Let us consider a simple case. To kill a murtad or not to kill ? (murtad =apostate)

Al-Qur'an (2256 , 1682, 6107, 479-80, 1128, 2267, 3941 ,10906) --> NO
Sunnah (example Sahih Bukhari volume 9 Book 84 Hadith 57) --> Ofcourse Yes

Since the case is that Bukhari's public survey is give authority over the Qur'an, please tell me exactly how then Qur'an is number 1 in case of authority.

I know that most people out here can flood the thread with such examples. But thats not my point.

Recently, when I was showing a few guys how their favourite Mullah's lie about God and His messenger, they gave me a piece of information , a very valuable one. They "assumed" that a scholar of such high reputation will not contradict the Qur'an atleast so much directly. Usually the traditionalist friends tell me to go debate with Zakir Naik..lol, but these guys asked me a rhetoric question "How can these scholars ignore such plain statements ?" !!!

So, not everyone is blind/deaf/dumb, these sheikhs/scholars/mullahs use their evil tactics to conceal what was revealed. Indeed, there are people whom if the words of God are presented, their hearts soften and they obey what they hear of God. So, when you walk up to a traditionalist and tell her that her Islam is wrong Islam, keep it in your mind that she is interpreting it as Qur'an is wrong and you are claiming to be right !!

A good news A hard core Zakir Naik fan , after discussing the apostasy issue in the light of Qur'an and "Zakir Naik and his sunnah", agreed with Qur'an that you cant give the apostate death penalty. However, the paradox is witnessed when we speak on other issues where his only problem is that Zakir Naik says otherwise and he is knowledgeable...lol rotfl

Anyways, feel free to comment and share your experience on this "Al Qur'an -the number one authority" thing.

Peace
-------------- Student of Allah

What does the Authority of the Sunnah mean?

In Arabic, the wording is Hojjiyat As-Sunnah. This basically means that the Sunnah can be used as evidence in Shariah, and that Allah (swt) has ordered us to follow the Sunnah and avoid anything it has prohibited for us. In other words, this means that it is obligatory on every Muslim to believe in what the Sunnah tells us, and to act according to the Sunnah in all aspects of our life and ensure that we do not commit any actions that contradict the Sunnah.

The Sunnah and it's place in relation to the Holy Qur'an

The Sunnah can be divided into three parts

Confirming Sunnah. This is the part of the Sunnah that confirms what is in the Qur'an, and reinforces it.

Explanatory Sunnah. This part of the Sunnah explains the holy Qur'an and the various Shariah injunctions that come in the holy Qur'an. It includes four parts expanding on what is mentioned only briefly in the holy Qur'an, explaining difficult verses or issues, putting limits on general statements in the Qur'an and finally specifying generalities in the Qur'an.

Sunnah that brings new legislation. This part of the Sunnah is the one that brings new legislation, and new Shariah that is not in the holy Qur'an.

http//www.al-islami.com/islam/authority_of_sunnah.php

Abrogation is applicable to both sources of Islamic law the Qur'n and the Prophetic Sunna. A Qur'nic verse may abrogate another Qur'nic verse, and a Prophetic Sunna may likewise abrogate another Prophetic Sunna. The possibility of abrogation between these two sources, though, was a more contentious issue precipitated by the absence within a source of the appropriate abrogating (nsikh) or abrogated (manskh) material necessary to bring concordance between it and the Fiqh.

In Shfi''s source theory the possibility of abrogation between the Sunna and the Qur'n was vehemently denied

Arguing determinedly that any verbal discrepancies between the Qur'n and the reported sayings or reports of the practices of Muhammed- the Sunna of the Prophet- were merely illusory and could always be removed on the basis of a satisfactory understanding of the mechanism of revelation and the function of the prophet-figure, Shfi' set his face decidedly against any acceptance of the idea then current that in all such cases the Qur'n had abrogated the Sunna, or the Sunna the Qur'n.

This stance was a reaction to larger developments within Islamic jurisprudence, particularly the reformulation of the Fiqh away from early foreign or regional influences and toward more eminently Islamic bases such as the Qur'n. This assertion of Qur'nic primacy was accompanied by calls for an abandonment of the Sunna. Shfi''s insistence upon the impossibility of contradiction between Sunna and Qur'n can thus be seen as one component in this larger effort of rescuing the Sunna

He campaigned tirelessly to justify use of the Sunna as the second primary source alongside the Kur'n against those who would accord the hadth no role in the derivation of the shar'a on the argument that the degree of conflict in the hadth, the inadequacies of the guarantee against corruption, fraud or error afforded by the isnds rendered the hadth unfit for the sacred role of declaring the divine intent underlying the Kur'n's declarations.

Asked point-blank whether the Sunna could ever be abrogated by the Qur'n, Shfi' had bluntly replied that that could never happen. Were the Sunna to be abrogated by the Qur'n, the Prophet would immediately introduce a second sunna to indicate that his first sunna had been abrogated by his second sunna- in order to demonstrate that a thing can be abrogated only by its like (mithlihi) .

Later scholars, writing when the juridicial legitimacy of the Sunna could be taken for granted (thanks largely to Shfi''s efforts!), were less inclined to adopt his inflexible stance. To their minds the reality of this sort of inter-source abrogation was proven by several "indisputable" instances the changing of the qibla towards Mecca and away from Jerusalem, and the introduction of the penalty of stoning for adultery. The following passage from Qurtub (al-Jmi' li ahkm al-Qur'n) is representative in this regard

...the Qur'n may be naskhed by the Qur'n and the Sunna by the Sunna. The Qur'n may, in addition, be naskhed by the Sunna, as has occurred in the case of Q.2180, which was replaced by the Sunna ruling no wasiya in favor of an heir. Mlik admitted this principle, but Shfi' denied it, although the fuqah all admit, in the instance of the penalty for adultery, that the flogging element of Q.242 has been allowed to lapse in the case of those offenders who are condemned to death by stoning. There is no explanation for the abandonment of the flogging element other than that the penalty all now acknowledge is based on the Sunna, i.e. the practice of the Prophet.

In the instance of the change of qibla, a Sunna ruling was set aside in favor of a Qur'n ruling- there is no reference in the Qur'n to the Jerusalem direction of prayer.

Al-Ghazl employs the same three examples in his Mustasf.

One outcome of these disputations was the proposal of a mode of naskh known as naskh al-tilwa dna al-hukm ("abrogation of the wording but not ruling&quot in order to provide a Qur'nic nsikh, or abrogator, for Q.242 (see below).

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)

So you can do the math. The Quran does not play any role in Sunni or even Shia Islam.

_Ala_

Salam,
And thanks to you too Bigmo for the explanatory comment. May I use your (Bigmo and Servent of Allah) posts at other places? I want my sunni relatives to read them, I only was able to give them ayat from the Quran but they think I dont understand what Quran says, and their sunni scholars know better. I dont know any hadith, I became "Quranist" before I started to think about hadeeth so these posts can be usefull)
I will definitely check that forum Servent of Allah. By the way I think its called shalom aleykhim in Hebrew not shalom aleykhom) I dont have anything about you using that, but I cant help wondering why? is that for a particuler reason or just becouse you like it more so?
Peace!

Kaiokenred

Allah is the ONLY authority. Quran is Allah's word, so in a way yes.

Student_of_Allah

What does the Authority of the Sunnah mean?