couple questions
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Salaam
I recently try to introduce my view of quran only islam position to my family. So basically i had several heated discussions on the traditions and their place along side the quran. now the problem is me not bieng very knowledgable i keep coming to a stumbling block when i try to put the point across. They use the argument of obey the messenger etc. which i show verses that say that his duty was only to convey. I also used the argument of the quran bieng complete, fully detailed and explained. i have gained progress with part of my family but some are very much unconvinced, they basically keep saying how to do salat, how to do zakat etc. the argument keeps becoming circular when i say the details are there just need to be willing to see them. dont approuch the quran with pre concieved notions. the one thing they do agre is that the hadiths are partly say bad things.
Now the problem comes when they say why would the prophet say anything bad to do (this is about the resonable hadith) and whats wrong with following them if its backed by quran, this does not sit well with me thats because something sounds is right doesnt nessacerally mean it is and for me comes it down to the quran not having enough details etc. i wanted to ask is there anything in quran about using other non contradicting hadith to supplement the quran or is it against it entirely part of me wants to use them but something kees telling me it could be bidah. am i right in thinking this?
they always say not everyone can understand the quran and only people of knowledge should discuss these things also come to stumbling block of not knowing arabic and they use this as a reason im misinterpreting stuff and am confused. how do i get past these arguments?
also my discussion seem to now have got to the point that part of my family think i am mislead, not open to ideas etc. which is abit irratating. its got to the point where they have involved the dawat e islami sect to try and bring me back to the sunnah. i recently went to the talk and the speaker said the something interesting he quoted the following verse
"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves".
and said this shows that the significance of the prophets sunnah.
he also mentioned a verse refering to the prophet being the reason for creation of the sky/heavens and the earth. but i cant remebr which aya that is has anyone come across a ayat mentioning such a thing that the reason we are on earth is because of/ or sake of the prophet.i seem to have missed it in the quran?
he also went on to mention another verse( cant remember which) and stated that the rank of mohammad(saw) was highest among the prophets and that he is most beloved by allah out of all of them. which for some reason didnt sit well with me. is this valid in the quran i seem to have missed it?
they also mentioned how the prophet can hear us, intercession by him on day of judgement and how if one does not love the prophet he is not a believer are these statements backed by the quran becuase i cant seem to remember verses he used but justified it with a few?
this was a talk by dawat e islami on milad( celebration of prophets birthday), they take sunnah very seriously and i now seem to be on the agenda as the misguided one. im expecting them to highlight the argguments about wisdom, obey the messenger etc. would there be anything else to look out for those who have had debates with this group? id likee to brush up on hadith history and would like to know how important is the reasons for the revalations of the ayats by allah? im not really a big debater and this group are very popular and will keep highlighting my "lack of knowledge" or they wont see my point becuase they may get emotional. i dont really like arguing but i got a feeling they wont leave me alone until i drop my opinion or i make them question there own belief. are there any good questions i could ask them about hadith history, compilation and the islamic jurispudence, fiqh which would maybe hope to let them see the truth?
with my own family they keep saying that i have lost love for the prophet and must love him most in this world is there any justification for this in the quran because i seem to have missed it. i respect the prophet highly and judge his action by the quran but how do i make others see this. i feel the involvement of the dawat e islami will force my family against me. oh well allah guides whom he wills.
sorry about the randomness of the questions
help would be appreaciated.thanks peace
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Salaam
I recently try to introduce my view of quran only islam position to my family. So basically i had several heated discussions on the traditions and their place along side the quran. now the problem is me not bieng very knowledgable i keep coming to a stumbling block when i try to put the point across. They use the argument of obey the messenger etc. which i show verses that say that his duty was only to convey. I also used the argument of the quran bieng complete, fully detailed and explained. i have gained progress with part of my family but some are very much unconvinced, they basically keep saying how to do salat, how to do zakat etc. the argument keeps becoming circular when i say the details are there just need to be willing to see them. dont approuch the quran with pre concieved notions. the one thing they do agre is that the hadiths are partly say bad things.
Now the problem comes when they say why would the prophet say anything bad to do (this is about the resonable hadith) and whats wrong with following them if its backed by quran, this does not sit well with me thats because something sounds is right doesnt nessacerally mean it is and for me comes it down to the quran not having enough details etc. i wanted to ask is there anything in quran about using other non contradicting hadith to supplement the quran or is it against it entirely part of me wants to use them but something kees telling me it could be bidah. am i right in thinking this?
they always say not everyone can understand the quran and only people of knowledge should discuss these things also come to stumbling block of not knowing arabic and they use this as a reason im misinterpreting stuff and am confused. how do i get past these arguments?
also my discussion seem to now have got to the point that part of my family think i am mislead, not open to ideas etc. which is abit irratating. its got to the point where they have involved the dawat e islami sect to try and bring me back to the sunnah. i recently went to the talk and the speaker said the something interesting he quoted the following verse
"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves".
and said this shows that the significance of the prophets sunnah.
he also mentioned a verse refering to the prophet being the reason for creation of the sky/heavens and the earth. but i cant remebr which aya that is has anyone come across a ayat mentioning such a thing that the reason we are on earth is because of/ or sake of the prophet.i seem to have missed it in the quran?
he also went on to mention another verse( cant remember which) and stated that the rank of mohammad(saw) was highest among the prophets and that he is most beloved by allah out of all of them. which for some reason didnt sit well with me. is this valid in the quran i seem to have missed it?
they also mentioned how the prophet can hear us, intercession by him on day of judgement and how if one does not love the prophet he is not a believer are these statements backed by the quran becuase i cant seem to remember verses he used but justified it with a few?
this was a talk by dawat e islami on milad( celebration of prophets birthday), they take sunnah very seriously and i now seem to be on the agenda as the misguided one. im expecting them to highlight the argguments about wisdom, obey the messenger etc. would there be anything else to look out for those who have had debates with this group? id likee to brush up on hadith history and would like to know how important is the reasons for the revalations of the ayats by allah? im not really a big debater and this group are very popular and will keep highlighting my "lack of knowledge" or they wont see my point becuase they may get emotional. i dont really like arguing but i got a feeling they wont leave me alone until i drop my opinion or i make them question there own belief. are there any good questions i could ask them about hadith history, compilation and the islamic jurispudence, fiqh which would maybe hope to let them see the truth?
with my own family they keep saying that i have lost love for the prophet and must love him most in this world is there any justification for this in the quran because i seem to have missed it. i respect the prophet highly and judge his action by the quran but how do i make others see this. i feel the involvement of the dawat e islami will force my family against me. oh well allah guides whom he wills.
sorry about the randomness of the questions
help would be appreaciated.thanks peace
AQ states that it is complete for the Deen, so extra-Quranic hadith are not necessary for matters of the Deen. Can extra-Quranic hadith supplement a person's life? Yes, they can. Should any supplement the Deen? Not just no, but no hell no!!! A cookbook can be hadith. It is useful for cooking--not so useful for the Deen.
AQ states that it is clear. So much for needing "people of knowledge" to interpret/discuss it! Not only is it clear, but it has every example needed!
3669 And We did not teach him poetry, nor does he need it. This is a reminder and a clear Qur'an.
151 ALR, these are the signs of the Book, and a clear Qur'an.
271 T'S, these are the signs of the Qur'an and a clear Book.
1789 And We have dispatched to the people in this Qur'an from every example, but most of the people refuse to be anything but rejecters!
1854 And We have dispatched in this Qur'an for the people from every example; but man has always been most argumentative.
2533 And for every example they come to you with, We bring you the truth and the best explanation.
3058 And We have put forth for the people in this Qur'an of every example. And if you come to them with a sign, those who rejected will say "You are bringing falsehood!"
3927 And We have put forth for the people in this Qur'an from every example, that they may take heed.
There is not a single argument that you need to make. If you can invite others to the Deen, do so. You need not justify yourself to any except ALLAH. Do not worry about the opinions of others. It is a test, and one that you must pass. Do the right thing, not the popular thing.
3186 We will test you in your wealth and in yourselves, and you will hear from those who have been given the Book from before you and from the polytheists much annoyance. And if you are patient and righteous, then that is from a strength of conviction.
2856 You cannot guide whom you love. But it is GOD who guides whom He wills; and He is fully aware of those who receive the guidance.
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of GOD; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
Regardless of what rank any Prophet (peace upon them all) has with ALLAH, we are commanded to make no distinctions between any of them.
2136 Say "We believe in GOD and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make a distinction between any of them and to Him we submit."
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in GOD, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."
384 Say "We believe in GOD and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit."
4152 And those who believe in GOD and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them, We will give them their recompense. And GOD is Forgiving, Merciful.
Intercession on J-day? nope Not unless ALLAH allows. In 604, we are instructed that Abraham (peace upon all Prophets) should not have even asked for forgiveness for his father. In 5326, we see that sometimes angels are allowed intercession...ISA.
248 And beware of a Day when no soul can avail another soul, nor will any intercession be accepted from it, nor will any ransom be taken, nor will they have supporters.
2123 And beware of a Day when no soul can avail another soul, nor will any amendment be accepted from it, nor will any intercession help it; they will not be supported.
2254 O you who believe, spend from what We have provided for you before a Day comes when there is no trade, nor friendship, nor intercession; and the rejecters are the wicked.
651 And warn with it those who realize that they will be gathered to their Lord; they do not have besides Him any ally nor intercessor; perhaps they will be righteous.
670 Leave alone those who have taken their system for play and distraction, and this worldly life has tempted them. And remind with it that a soul will suffer for what it has earned, it will not have besides GOD any supporter nor intercessor; and even if it brings all justice, none will be accepted from it. These are the ones who have suffered with what they have earned; for them will be a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.
694 "And you have come to Us individually, just as We had created you the first time; and you have left behind you all that We have provided for you; and We do not see your intercessors with you that you used to claim were with you in partnership; all is severed between you, and what you have claimed has abandoned you."
753 Are they waiting for what it says to come true? On the day it comes true, those who previously forgot it will say "The messengers of our Lord have come with the truth! Are there any intercessors to intercede for us? Or can we be sent back and we will work differently than what we did?" They have lost their souls and what they have invented has abandoned them.
103 Your Lord is GOD who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He settled upon the Throne; He manages all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His permission. Such is GOD your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember?
1018 And they serve besides GOD what does not harm them or benefit them, and they say "These are our intercessors with GOD." Say "Are you informing GOD of what He does not know in the heavens or the earth?" Be He glorified and exalted above what they set up.
1987 None will possess intercession, except for he who has taken a pledge with the Almighty.
20109 On that Day, no intercession will be of help, except for he whom the Almighty allows and accepts what he has to say.
3013 And they did not have any intercessors from the partners they set up, and they will reject such partners.
324 GOD is the One who has created the heavens and the earth, and what is between them in six days, then He settled upon the Throne. You do not have besides Him any Lord, nor intercessor. Will you not then remember?
3423 "Nor will intercession be of any help with Him, except for whom He has already given leave." Until when the fear has subsided from their hearts, they ask "What did your Lord say?" They will say "The truth!" And He is the Most High, the Great.
3623 "Shall I take gods besides Him? If the Almighty intends any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me in the least, nor can they save me."
3943 Or have they taken intercessors besides GOD? Say "What if they possessed nothing, nor comprehended?"
3944 Say "To GOD belongs all intercession." To Him belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, then to Him you will be returned.
4386 And those whom they call on besides Him do not possess any intercession; except those who bear witness to the truth, and they fully know.
5326 And there are many an angel in the heavens, whose intercession does not benefit in the least, unless GOD gives permission for whom He wishes and is pleased with him.
7448 So no intercession of intercessors could help them.
It is a hard thing to accept that one can't invite everyone to the Deen. Put and keep yourself solidly in monotheism. After doing this, attempt to help any others--as ALLAH allows opportunities. Be a good example to others, discuss without arguing, and from time to time ask questions that make others think. Ask ALLAH for help and have complete trust and patience in ALLAH, who has Guided you thus far. ALLAH may use you as a tool to bring others to monotheism--even those that you thought were lost. We can submit, but only ALLAH can accept our submissions.
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Shalom Aleikhom,
You are not a guide, or a guardian, so do not expect miracles simply because you showed them the Qur'an. It is up to them to accept or reject. Good to know that you shared as much as its possible for you .
Now the problem comes when they say why would the prophet say anything bad to do (this is about the resonable hadith) and whats wrong with following them if its backed by quran, this does not sit well with me thats because something sounds is right doesnt nessacerally mean it is and for me comes it down to the quran not having enough details etc. i wanted to ask is there anything in quran about using other non contradicting hadith to supplement the quran or is it against it entirely part of me wants to use them but something kees telling me it could be bidah. am i right in thinking this?
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The first sentence is based on the assumption that the prophet really said what Bukhari says he said. So, simply ask them to submit evidence if they are truthful.
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If they are backed by the Qur'an, why do you need them at all ? Then you simply follow the Qur'an. If my opinion and your opinion are the same, why do I have to go and listen to both ? Only one should do the job. And in the case of Islam, is there a muslim who would say that given the choice between Qur'an and Bukhari's work , he/she would chose Bukhari ?
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You listening to my advice because it does not contradict the spirit of the message has nothing to do with "innovating in deen". It becomes "innovation" when you force or suggest others to take my advice due to its divinity. For example Bukhari's public survey (known as Sahih-Bukhari).
they always say not everyone can understand the quran and only people of knowledge should discuss these things also come to stumbling block of not knowing arabic and they use this as a reason im misinterpreting stuff and am confused. how do i get past these arguments?
I agree with them, not all can understand the Qur'an. However, for the believers its not a problem.
"This is an honourable Quran. In a protected record. None can grasp it except those pure. A revelation from the Lord of the worlds."
Your purity matters, if your family says that only "their favorite" scholars are pure, nicely ask them for evidence and a signed certificate of purity from Allah.
Most people think that Qur'an is too complex and cant be understood by general people. So, share with them
1745 And when you read the Qur'an, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion."And if We had made it a non-Arabic Quran, they would have said 'If only its verses were made clear!' Non-Arabic and Arabic, Say 'For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. AS FOR THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE, There is a Deafness in their EARS, And they are BLIND to it. These will be called from a place far away.'"
Then, nicely ask them if you need to apologize that Allah made it easy for you ? Or should you join the group that God spoke about in the ayaats that are deaf dumb and blind to the Qur'an ? (Remember to put the question in a nice tone)
also my discussion seem to now have got to the point that part of my family think i am mislead, not open to ideas etc. which is abit irratating. its got to the point where they have involved the dawat e islami sect to try and bring me back to the sunnah. i recently went to the talk and the speaker said the something interesting he quoted the following verse
"The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves".
and said this shows that the significance of the prophets sunnah.
You already respect and revere the messenger. In Islamic history, the guy is a celebrity and known to be a nice person whom God chose to deliver his message. However, ask them what your perception of the relationship between you and the prophet has got to do with public survey about him ? Tell them that at any cost, you would not allow public surveys to make him into a pedophile murderer lunatic women oppressing child of Iblis. That is how you show your respect, not by attributing to him criminal charges based on hearsay.
he also mentioned a verse refering to the prophet being the reason for creation of the sky/heavens and the earth. but i cant remebr which aya that is has anyone come across a ayat mentioning such a thing that the reason we are on earth is because of/ or sake of the prophet.i seem to have missed it in the quran?
I think you misunderstood him, its based on hearsay public survey and conjecture. Not Qur'an. Its not your fault that you misunderstood him, because these people quote the quran and inject whole paragraphs into it. People who do not read the Qur'an in general would walk home believing that it was in the Qur'an.
he also went on to mention another verse( cant remember which) and stated that the rank of mohammad(saw) was highest among the prophets and that he is most beloved by allah out of all of them. which for some reason didnt sit well with me. is this valid in the quran i seem to have missed it?
4152 And those who believe in God and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them, We will give them their recompense. And God is Forgiving, Merciful.
384 Say "We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit."
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."
2136 Say "We believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make a distinction between any of them and to Him we submit."
So, just like the example given in Qur'an, WE DO NOT MAKE DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN ANY OF THEM. Just exactly who do you think you are when you start judging them and giving medal to one as the best the other as the last position ? Who employed you ? Or do you know whats in their hearts or are you aware of the secrets of the heaven and the earth ? Deaf dumb and blind.
they also mentioned how the prophet can hear us, intercession by him on day of judgement and how if one does not love the prophet he is not a believer are these statements backed by the quran becuase i cant seem to remember verses he used but justified it with a few?
248 And beware of a Day when no soul can avail another soul, nor will any intercession be accepted from it, nor will any ransom be taken, nor will they have supporters.
2123 And beware of a Day when no soul can avail another soul, nor will any amendment be accepted from it, nor will any intercession help it; they will not be supported.
670 Leave alone those who have taken their system for play and distraction, and this worldly life has tempted them. And remind with it that a soul will suffer for what it has earned, it will not have besides God any supporter nor intercessor; and even if it brings all justice, none will be accepted from it. These are the ones who have suffered with what they have earned; for them will be a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.
The general philosophy of intercession as it makes sense to me is that say, I help you out of trouble. Allah knows that, on The Day, this may serve for a reason why he should be more merciful towards me. But if you are a criminal in general, someone intercessory for you makes no sense. If you are not criminal , intercessor for you makes no sense either. On a philosophical level, if you accept their "muhammad's intercession" theory, what you are accepting with it is that towards believers, Muhammad is more merciful than Allah. Not to mention that you are accepting the fact that Justice no longer belongs to God, it depends on the will of Muhammad.
1018 And they serve besides God what does not harm them or benefit them, and they say "These are our intercessors with God." Say "Are you informing God of what He does not know in the heavens or the earth?" Be He glorified and exalted above what they set up
Do we worship a God that needs lesson and advice on which one of us deserve more/less mercy ? Or is he self sufficient ?
this was a talk by dawat e islami on milad( celebration of prophets birthday), they take sunnah very seriously and i now seem to be on the agenda as the misguided one. im expecting them to highlight the argguments about wisdom, obey the messenger etc. would there be anything else to look out for those who have had debates with this group? id likee to brush up on hadith history and would like to know how important is the reasons for the revalations of the ayats by allah? im not really a big debater and this group are very popular and will keep highlighting my "lack of knowledge" or they wont see my point becuase they may get emotional. i dont really like arguing but i got a feeling they wont leave me alone until i drop my opinion or i make them question there own belief. are there any good questions i could ask them about hadith history, compilation and the islamic jurispudence, fiqh which would maybe hope to let them see the truth?
What works for one person may not work for the other. Generally, I try to be well versed in the Qur'an. And pre-evaluate their questions. If you know their tricks of misquoting/blending Bukhari with Gods words/ lies /etc, you are equiped from before to reason with them. For example, if you know about the "Take what the messenger gives you, and abstain from what he forbids" line in Qur'an, you will notice how misleadingly they misquote. Its quoted similarly as the "kill the infidels" line. But if you dont know it from before, this can slow down your reasoning with them and people who hear your debates can temporarily think that "Ofcourse, the mullah quoted something from Qur'an..he must be right"....thats your chance to expose the mullahs infront of THOSE WHO believe. They will not tolerate such extreme misquoting. Ultimately, you cant guide anyone, the person herself has to be sincere.
There are lots of materials available for study. It helps more if you study the Qur'an more.
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
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Salam abdul hadi and student of allah
I really appreaciate your opinions my own thoughts are along the same lines as yourselves. You are right that we cant guide who we love.
I still manage to get resistance when i mention the quran alone as guidance. the major thing i noticed is the emotional attachment alot of muslim still have with traditions. when questioned on the tradition they always end up appealing to emotions by stating how could so many people be wrong and we should thefore ollow the majority. I often been told that we shouldn't question matters of faith. which at the end of the day is faulty reasoning because the quran encourages us to learn understand and ponder.
i think the newest accuse i was given that i was listening to the wrong scholars and my sources are corrupt hich is all very convenient. which naturally leads to the question what makes certain scholars better than others, which criteria is used because it sure isn't the quran. I guess for me to have a valid opinion in thier eyes i'll probably have to have years of schooling at al azhar or any other islamic institution. those who discuss my apparent misguidance often are surprised when im aware of different scholar and general opinions amongst them. i was given a brain ill make my own decision and choices which ammusingly they do exactly the same thing when it thier own choice to follow the traditions and ulema blindly, as the quran say truth is easily distinguished from falsehood.
I just dont how they can be so close minded. their lives could be so much simpler yet they over complicate. i was bought up in a strict sunni household following ahle sunnah, i use to attend plenty of lectures and always heard conflicting accounts, so when i started actually studying the quran i asked allah for understanding of the deen, it all clicked and ive never looked back since. I guess i do see this opposition as the test of my resove and how much faith i actually put in allah.
inahallah i will come through this stronger and with more understanding.
Thanks peace