Fasting in polar regions
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Salaam
While the ramadaan is approaching people start asking me questions about fasting. One of these questions is ?what about the people living in the North or South Pole?
May such people estimate their period of fasting in harmony with the temperate area to which the revelation was sent, like Makkah or Medina or can it be done in relation to the timing of the moderate area nearest to these people?
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Salam Mucahit,
Salaam
While the ramadaan is approaching people start asking me questions about fasting. One of these questions is ?what about the people living in the North or South Pole?
May such people estimate their period of fasting in harmony with the temperate area to which the revelation was sent, like Makkah or Medina or can it be done in relation to the timing of the moderate area nearest to these people?
The same question was asked by brother Idris in this thread
An Indepth RESEARCH on SALAATpeace,
lets take a look at Yankee's question and apply it to Ramadan
Taking the northern hemisphere as an example ;during summer at latitudes beyond 66 degrees North the sun does not set at all so how do you abide to the dawn and dusk salat??
this question can also be applied to Ramadan fasting/abstaining from dawn to dusk, how can fasting in Ramadan be upheld at the same time all over the world (or at two seperate times, one for the northern hemisphere and one for the southern, but there are also no times in the year when the sun sets/rises for a whole hemisphere i think) when there are basically no times in the whole year when the sun sets/rises all over the earth for any amount of days, lets say Ramadan is in summer how can people in latitudes beyond 66 degrees north abide by it? this is only part of the problem, in verses 2184, 2196, 482, 589, 595, 584, and so forth we are told to abstain/fast in different occasions for different reasons, so lets say somebody that lives in latitudes beyond 66 degrees North during the summer and breaks a pledge, how would he abstain/fast according to 2196? to my view these verses aren't telling us to fast from dust to dawn when we fail at doing these certain things but to abstain from doing a particular thing when we do so (hence the meaning of saum-abstain) for these reasons I believe we have to change our views of dawn/dusk when it comes to Ramadan too, I'm not sure if Abstinence was also decreed for the prophet and his people as well too? whats your view Marie?
peace
This is my understanding, uou can read it in this thread
Several Questions On RamadanPeace all,
Peace SwedenMajidah, all,
How do muslims who live in Northern Europe, say Norway and Sweden, organise the fast? In summer there is no night, in winter there is no day, more in the extreme North, but it also happens in the south part, I experienced it.- O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you perhaps you may be righteous.
In 2187, Allah explains us how to fast, I think it is valid for all people whatever our geographical situation.
If we cannot apply it for certain areas of our sphere during seasons of winter and summer, perhaps this is the proof that the month of ramadan is neither in winter nor in summer but in other season.
- It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous.
We know the timing of ?alhajj? is in the months (restricted months) which have been appointed (2197).
If the four restricted months correspond to the season of autumn in order to preserve wildlife in the northern hemisphere, we read in chapter 106 that Quraysh accomplish their journey in winter and summer; they don?t travel during the season of autumn which could correspond to the period of the ramadan and alhajj (the four restricted months) and where they receive "alhujjaj / Pilgrims" (919).
Any comments appreciated
Let me know what do you think?
Thanks
Peace
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Peace Wakas,
peace Mucahit,
Please see the following thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2449
I think its clear that it is only for those who are able to witness the month.
Wakas
How do you understand 2183?
- O you who believe, fasting is decreed for YOU as it was decreed for those before YOU perhaps you may be righteous.
Does Allah specify that Abstinence is decreed fo only for those who are able to witness the month?
In the same way Does Allah specify that the salat at dawn and at dusk is decreed only for those who can observe the two end of the day and "dulook of the sun"?
If Ramadan means a season, we can obseve it whatever our geographic position.
Looking for your comment
Thanks
Peace
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dear brothers,
what is fasting and what is fasting time ?
Fasting means abastaining from food, and water during the period when you earn for your livelyhood and for provisions ignoring the glad tidings of Allah that He shall send you your provisions from HIM. He says If you are mumins,
51 22 In the heaven is your providence and that which ye are promised;
Normally we save these earnings for the the future thinking that the money will protect our future, thus associating the money with Allah when it comes to providence and life safety. It is a grave shirk, committed .
So atleast when you witness this truth from Allah - fast on such days and abstain from living with the shirk ( with the money ) that you have earned fear Allah and restrain from using it even for your sustenance ie., restrain using the money that you have earned during the day time even for your food and water.
Now comes the real meaning of the fasting time! Stay off from eating or drinking during the day time, the period of time when you earn money which you associate with Allah, for your protection and livelyhood.
So the fasting time is the " day time " when you begin and end your seeking of this worldly livelyhood. So also keep spending abundantly all the 'shirk'y money, during the time of fasting or during the time of earning so that you earn good will from your Lord and that He may Pardon you and reward you abundantly from HIM, only to make you self sufficient.
dr fazlur rahman.
..
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Peace be upon you,
Aw man, that is fantastic!!!
I need some time to ponder this. I really think you have brought it correctly.
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Peace be upon you Dr Fazl,
At this time I only have one disagreement which i will post in the thread you started so as not to disrupt the intention for this thread.
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peace sister Marie,
Does Allah specify that Abstinence is decreed fo only for those who are able to witness the month?
Yes, that is what 2185 implies. I see no other reason for The God to say "so who witnessed from you the month".
It is like if my manager says at a staff meeting to his workers "To those of you working/present on the 14th October, we will be closing early that day as its a holiday." This statement only affects those witnessing the 14th of October workday. For example, if someone has that day off, this statement is not applicable to them.In the same way Does Allah specify that the salat at dawn and at dusk is decreed only for those who can observe the two end of the day and "dulook of the sun"?
I haven't studied this specific aspect thoroughly. My current view is similar to yours, which I believe is that the regular/timed slw was only for the messenger. This makes sense when one considers how a messenger would deliver a revelation. Out of curiosity, is there any evidence suggesting this understanding is not correct?
Wakas
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Peace brother Wakas,
Thanks for your answer.
peace sister Marie,
Does Allah specify that Abstinence is decreed fo only for those who are able to witness the month?
Yes, that is what 2185 implies. I see no other reason for The God to say "so who witnessed from you the month".
It is like if my manager says at a staff meeting to his workers "To those of you working/present on the 14th October, we will be closing early that day as its a holiday." This statement only affects those witnessing the 14th of October workday. For example, if someone has that day off, this statement is not applicable to them.That seems to me illogical that siyam is not decreed all of us, 2183 is clear and I do believe we are concerned by this verse whatever our geographical position.
I understand 2185 differently, "so who witnessed from you the month" means that we can observe it at different time.
Allah knows best
Marie
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peace sister Marie,
I understand 2185 differently, "so who witnessed from you the month" means that we can observe it at different time.
I would say that is also one possibility, although perhaps not what leaps out when one reads the verse initially. I have not studied this topic thoroughly though.
You didn't answer my other question on slw
Out of curiosity, is there any evidence suggesting this understanding is not correct?
Wakas
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Peace brother wakas,
peace sister Marie,
I understand 2185 differently, "so who witnessed from you the month" means that we can observe it at different time.
I would say that is also one possibility, although perhaps not what leaps out when one reads the verse initially. I have not studied this topic thoroughly though.
This just my own understanding and surely not the alone possibility
You didn't answer my other question on slw
Out of curiosity, is there any evidence suggesting this understanding is not correct?
Wakas
Sorry, I don't unswer your question because I think you guessed it.
My current view is similar to yours, which I believe is that the regular/timed slw was only for the messenger. This makes sense when one considers how a messenger would deliver a revelation.
I always agree )
Allah asked us to study the quran and establish the salat (7320). We can do it day and night, all our life and not specially at dawn and dusk.
Marie
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Peace be upon you,
We have the SAME system(deen) as Noah, Ibraheem, and everyne else.
The God says "abstaining" is decreed on you as it was on those before you, so why would it not apply to us here?
Lastly, I cannot find a complete list of verse for "sawm", does anyone have that ?
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Peace be upon you Marie and all,
A frined of mine came over with a documentary from channel 12, as he knows i enjoy knew information. It was about the creation of the earth.
What I found out is that the north pole is not stationary although we are made to believe so. So I had to look this up on the net and here is an article I found.
http//ku-prism.org/polarscientist/hollowworld/Aug81897ChiHerald.htm
