Pre-Pubescent Marriage
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Sunnah-Hero says that according to 654, Muslims are allowed to marry babies
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603540.msg293354#msg293354
In that same post he asked what breaks wudu. Uncleanness breaks wudu (56). You are supposed to do wudu immediately before prayer.
So here is a discussion on his claim about 654
?And test the orphans until they attain the (age of) marriage; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property, and do not consume it extravagantly and hastily, lest they attain to full age; and whoever is rich, let him abstain altogether, and whoever is poor, let him eat reasonably; then when you make over to them their property, call witnesses in their presence; and Allah is enough as a Reckoner.? (46)
The age of marriage is after puberty ends and when the person is of sound judgement. The word ?ashuddah? is derived from ?shaheed? conveying ?full strength?, and it is used in 6152, 1734, 225, 4067 and 4615 to describe a child who has developed to full strength (adulthood). Property must be given to the orphan when they are fully mature (e.g. 1734), and this is equated to marriage in 46. Thus the age of marriage is average 16.
The average completion of puberty for a girl is apparently 17, but one would not consider marrying earlier than say 16. The person should technically reach their adult height first, and people can tell when one is mentally ?mature? enough (they are past the emotional seesaw!). 46 obviously refers to attaining a specified age since the Arabic word ?attain? is used elsewhere to mean ?passing a certain amount of time?. Moreover, if the verse simply meant ?marriage?, we would have to ask why someone without maturity of intellect was married.
Certain people claim that 654 allows pre-pubescent marriage
?And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.? (654)
This actually refers to the period that should pass between when a couple divorce and when they officially confirm it. The waiting-period is there in case the woman is pregnant. Now, the woman who no longer menstruates should still wait three months. The woman who menstruates but has not done so in this particular period must wait for three months (menstruation is a monthly occurrence), anyway.
Menstruation occurs only if the woman is not pregnant.
According to 2226, a couple should not have sex for four months before divorce. The subsequent three month waiting period ensures they have not. 2228 instructs normally-menstruating women to wait three cycles, whilst 654 instructs those who believe they have reached menopause but for whom there is a reason to doubt (either that they cannot get pregnant or that they are not pregnant) and those who have ?not menstruated? to wait three months. Obviously, immediately after divorce any women will have not menstruated, and thus they will wait three months (equivalent to three cycles whether they begin to menstruate or not). 654 is a clarification that 2228 is not to be taken as ?three cycles?, but ultimately as ?three months?. Otherwise a woman who menstruated the first month but not the next (due to a non-pregnancy reason) would have to wait potentially longer than three months. 2228, in describing the default position for women, confirms that all married women are those who have courses (i.e. menstruate). This establishes that pre-pubescent marriage did not occur and that it was never available as an Islamic option. 3349 echoes what 2228 actually says (i.e. that the purpose of waiting is to see if one is pregnant). 654 is clarification for women who have departed from the default position of all newly-married women (i.e. they have ceased menstruating either due to pregnancy or illness). Such women can wait months instead of cycles/periods.
A critic may claim that 43 mandates marriage with underage orphans, but it (that interpretation) would refer only to those specific circumstances (just as polygamy is only legal in those specific circumstances).
The more obvious response is that these disadvantaged orphans (having reached the age of full-strength such that they can receive their property (1734)) are actually old enough to be married (hence 46). Orphans were not defined by age. This point is solidified in 4127 where the female orphans (or again the orphans ?of the women one wishes to marry?) are distinguished from the weaker children. The female orphans of marriageable age must receive their property, and the children must have their property spent only out of necessity (in a good way (1734)).
A desperate critic will then say that 46 only applies to males, in which case only male children need to be good to their parents (4615). It also means that only female orphans receive their property in 42, and this is logically unacceptable. The same word for ?orphans? is used in the verses 42, 43 and 46 such that there is no reason to differentiate the male from the female.
It is unclear whether the Qur?an permitted existing pre-pubescent marriages to continue, and this may be included in 654. Either way, they have been cancelled.
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Sunnah Hero is a troll, you wasted your time
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He's basically insulting the Quran to justify the use of hadiths. Disgusting!
I've never seen a response to verses like 6114/115 yet according to people like Sunnah Hero (slayer more like) seem to admit, indirectly, God lied when he revealed these verses and the Quran is not complete?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Sunnah Hero is a troll, you wasted your time
Maybe, but I doubt it. Trolls don't have the patience to type his posts and repeatedly return.
Another reason why I don't feel that the posts are wasted is that the posts are there for anybody to read at any time--and invite them to embrace monotheism.
Is anyone past redemption if ALLAH wills? hmm Isn't it a good act to invite others to monotheism?
It also strengthens those persons who participate earnestly in such discussions.
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Trolls or provokers are very much in the forums, are persistent and change nics and come back with the same errands again and again. Yes.
Another thing is that trying to do harm, they in fact may help others to think harder and deeper.
But taking trolls as real specimens may give the wrong impression of what honestly wrong people may do or think. The frist know what they do, the second do not.
Of course there are also trolls outside forums, like some fatwa givers, who are not better than trolls with a self or not self-conferred "religious" authority, but at any rate, the difference between trolls and honest wrong thinkers is the mission they undertake. True trolls no matter how many times you prove them wrong, will come back as fresh as if nothing had ever happened and they were not there before.
Salaam
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So in your opinion, is this article a waste of time?
Cancer needs treatment, doesn't it?
Yeah I guess for other people who might be wondering ( they shouldn't ) this is a good article.
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I will like to add something on this topic of the satanic godless Pedophilia lie against the Divine Revelation of Allah/God (SWTAY)
Check this reddit thread i made (I'm The_Sardar)
https//www.reddit.com/r/Quraniyoon/comments/8rosr8/the_satanic_lie_of_pedophilia_against_the_quran/
Let me know what you think!
Salam/Peace
