Caliphate system and Slavery
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just my words. The christians were the worst with the slaves while muslims were good with their slaves. Thats a fact.
I think that Europeans were more honest about their slavery than Muslims were. Most Muslims are not even aware of that history. Slavery occurred invisible to most Muslims because the religious authority would not preach these things in mosques and most Islamic empires were not transparent about it.
The lastest Turkish smash soap opera (Suleiman the Magnificent) that talks about the harems of the sultan opened up a lot of eyes in the Arab world.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCwGCIKD0Q
I watched the whole first season and so did my mom. She was shocked at what was going on. People now know for the first time that harems were not belly dancers but actual slaves that the Sultan owned and had sex with whenever he wanted. Most of these females were kidnapped and sold to slavery to the Ottomans. Often their families would not know what happened to them and never saw them again. Slavery is one of the most evil practices in humankind. It is kidnapping, rape, exploitation and destruction of families. To legalize this barbaric practice the Muslim authorities had to find hadiths to support it.
Ottoman slavery in Eastern EuropeIn the devirme (that has a meaning of "blood tax" or "child collection", young Christian boys from the Balkans and Anatolia were taken away from their homes and families, converted to Islam and enlisted into special soldier classes of the Ottoman army. These soldier classes were named Janissaries and were the most famous branch of the Kapkulu. The Janissaries eventually became a decisive factor in the Ottoman invasions of Europe. Most of the military commanders of the Ottoman forces, imperial administrators and de facto rulers of the Ottoman Empire, such as Pargal brahim Pasha and Sokollu Mehmet Paa, were recruited in this way. By 1609 the Sultan's Kapkulu forces increased to about 100,000.
Rural slavery was largely a Caucasian phenomenon, carried to Anatolia and Rumelia after the Circassian migration in 1864. Conflicts emerged within the immigrant community and the Ottoman Establishment, at times, intervened on the side of the slaves.
For a long time, until the early 18th century Crimean Khanate maintained massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. In a process called "harvesting of the steppe" Crimean Tatars enslaved many Slavic peasants. The Crimean Khanate was undoubtedly one of the strongest powers in Eastern Europe; the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Russia suffered a series of Tatar invasions, the goal of which was to loot, pillage and capture slaves into jasyr. The borderland area to the south-east was in a state of semi-permanent warfare until the 18th century. It is estimated that up to 75% of the Crimean population consisted of slaves or freed slaves.
Barbary slave raidsSee also Barbary corsairs
Hundreds of thousands of Europeans were captured by Barbary pirates and sold as slaves in North Africa and the Ottoman Empire between the 16th and 19th centuries. These slave raids were perpetrated mostly by Arabs and Berbers rather than Ottoman Turks, but during much of the height of the Barbary slave trade in the 16th and 17th centuries the Barbary states were subject to Ottoman jurisdiction and ruled by Ottoman pashas; furthermore, many slaves captured by the Barbary corsairs were sold eastward into Ottoman territories before, during, and after Barbary's period of Ottoman rule.Slaves in the Imperial HaremThe concubines of the Ottoman Sultan consisted chiefly of purchased slaves. Because Islamic law forbade Muslims to enslave fellow Muslims, the Sultan's concubines were generally of Christian origin. The mother of a Sultan, though technically a slave, received the extremely powerful title of Valide Sultan, and at times became effective ruler of the Empire (see Sultanate of women). One notable example was K?sem Sultan, daughter of a Greek Christian priest, who dominated the Ottoman Empire during the early decades of the 17th century. Another notable example was Roxelana, the favourite wife of Suleiman the Magnificent.
The concubines were guarded by enslaved eunuchs, often of African origin. The eunuchs presented another problem, because Islamic law forbade the emasculation of a man. Ethiopian Christians, however, had no such compunctions; and thus they enslaved and emasculated members of neighboring nations, and sold the resulting eunuchs to the Ottoman Porte.
The Coptic Orthodox Church participated extensively in the slave trade of black Nubian or Abyssinian eunuchs. Coptic priests sliced the penis and testicles off underage boys around the age of 8 who were children in a castration operation, the eunuch boys were then sold in the Ottoman Empire. The majority of Ottoman eunuchs endured castration at the hands of the Copts at Abou Gerbe monastery on Mount Ghebel Eter. The black boys were captured from Abyssinia and other areas in Sudan like Darfur and Kordofan then brought into Sudan and Egypt. During the operation, the Coptic clergyman chained the boys to tables and after slicing their sexual organs off, stuck a bamboo catheter into the genital area, then submerged them in neck high sand to burn in sun for a few days. The recovery rate was ten percent. The resulting eunuchs fetched large profits in contrast to eunuchs from other areas.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
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Rajah and Sunnah Hero,
The mere fact that Europeans practiced barbaric slavery does not disprove the fact that it is incompatible with the Christian lifestyle. No wonder the Roman Catholic Church first declared slavery a herecy in the 1400s and the major figures in the abolition movement were Christians like William Wilberforce who argued that slavery was unchristian. Once the Western nations abolished slavery, the intercepted Arab/Muslim slave ships, evenptually using their power to pressure the Muslim world to abolish slavery.
Your statement makes me wonder if you have any empathy at all. Sociopaths have no problem with kidnapping people, selling them, raping them, etc. God teaches throughout the bible that you should have mercy and do to others as you would have them do unto you. Your first statement about mercy and your second statement referring to sex-slaves as cellphones (de-humanising them) are total contradictions. Your version of God sounds really mixed up about what he wants.....
I don't dehumanize anyone but you forget that the sexslave is owned by a master. If the master doesn't have sex with the slavegirls the slavegirls would seek prostitution is that what you want?... BTW i dont think people who have places like guantanamo are in a position to criticise the islamic solution for prisoners of war which is much superior. In islam a prisoner of war gets food clothes, a house to live in and sex. Do prisoners in guantanamo get that?
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What is there to wonder about sunna-hero He calls himself like troll, he acts like a troll, performs like a troll...
He must be laughing himself to death,people taking him seriously.
And We consider quraniyoon as trolls within the islamic society since they call themselves muslims when they are not. Quranists are looked down upon in the same way christians look at Jehovah's witnesses.
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And We consider quraniyoon as trolls within the islamic society since they call themselves muslims when they are not. Quranists are looked down upon in the same way christians look at Jehovah's witnesses.
So why would anyone take you seriously? You can't actually answer anything.
Who cares about the opinions of humans who rely on other humans to call them "Muslims"?
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I don't dehumanize anyone but you forget that the sexslave is owned by a master. If the master doesn't have sex with the slavegirls the slavegirls would seek prostitution is that what you want?... BTW i dont think people who have places like guantanamo are in a position to criticise the islamic solution for prisoners of war which is much superior. In islam a prisoner of war gets food clothes, a house to live in and sex. Do prisoners in guantanamo get that?
You did. You referred to a sex-slave as a cell phone. And who says I am a Westerner? Guantanamo has nothing to do with me.
It is not true that they would seek prostitution. There are many single women who do not seek prostitution. Most prostitutes are in it for the money.
In islam a prisoner of war gets food clothes, a house to live in and sex.
Then, why did the Muslim slave traders discourage marriage and catrate black slaves? Why were women taken as prisoners of war since in most cases they did not fight; the men did.
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You did. You referred to a sex-slave as a cell phone. And who says I am a Westerner? Guantanamo has nothing to do with me.
It is not true that they would seek prostitution. There are many single women who do not seek prostitution. Most prostitutes are in it for the money.
Then, why did the Muslim slave traders discourage marriage and catrate black slaves? Why were women taken as prisoners of war since in most cases they did not fight; the men did.
You are right. Prisoners of war here does not mean actual fighters. These were raids made on communities. You are right. Its kind of sad that we have Muslims try to defend what the clerics themselves know that it can not be defended. Thats why they avoid this topic.
Soon we will get into the child marriage and our Sunni friend will be defended that also. All because he can not question what his sect teaches.
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You did. You referred to a sex-slave as a cell phone. And who says I am a Westerner? Guantanamo has nothing to do with me.
Slaves are property. But remember that in islam the slaves also have rights over their master e.g. to be feed and clothed properly... And there ARE NO CHAINS...
It is not true that they would seek prostitution. There are many single women who do not seek prostitution. Most prostitutes are in it for the money.
Women have sexual needs and no woman can stay virgin all her life... maybe 1 out of 1000000 women can do that.. so if the master doesn't have sex with his slavegirls the slavegirls would seek sex in a haram way..
Then, why did the Muslim slave traders discourage marriage and catrate black slaves?
BLACK SLAVES...huh ? Your intention is to make islam look like a racist religion it is not like that. White male slaves were also castrated. The reason was to ensure that muslim female owners didn't had sex with their male slaves.... a woman has to be faithful to her husband.... imagine what would happen if a husband gets to know that his wife has a male sexslave? he would most likely not control his anger and maybe kill her and if doesn't kill her he would DIVORCE her which would mean that she as a divorcee wont be able to survive except if she becomes a prostitute in order to feed herself and prostitution is not allowed in islam. So the male slaves were castrated in order to protect the modesty of muslim women and in order to avoid the break down of the family as we see in the evil westeren society where there are no control on womens sexuality
Why were women taken as prisoners of war since in most cases they did not fight; the men did
You are right. Women didnt participate in wars so the female slaves were not prisoners of wars as we understand it. But you have to remember in times of war the conquering Muslim army took over land where there were obviously widows whose husbands had been killed in action. Islam permits that the women are war booty for us. We have a duty to provide their basic needs however, its not just a matter of sex. Sex is permitted with them but remember that the SLAVES ALSO HAVE RIGHTS OVER THEIR MASTER. A slave can take his master to court for being treated unjustly.
Can you provide a better solution for the widows of the defeated enemy? If muslims dont take care of them they would starve to death of become prostitutes in order to survive.
I hope that you know see that the reason for why islam allows female sexslaves is in order to protect the modesty of women not to degrade her. -
You are right. Prisoners of war here does not mean actual fighters. These were raids made on communities. You are right. Its kind of sad that we have Muslims try to defend what the clerics themselves know that it can not be defended. Thats why they avoid this topic.
Soon we will get into the child marriage and our Sunni friend will be defended that also. All because he can not question what his sect teaches.
Please see my reply to that christian woman You are right. Women didnt participate in wars so the female slaves were not prisoners of wars as we understand it. But you have to remember in times of war the conquering Muslim army took over land where there were obviously widows whose husbands had been killed in action. Islam permits that the women are war booty for us. We have a duty to provide their basic needs however, its not just a matter of sex. Sex is permitted with them but remember that the SLAVES ALSO HAVE RIGHTS OVER THEIR MASTER. A slave can take his master to court for being treated unjustly.
Can you provide a better solution for the widows of the defeated enemy? If muslims dont take care of them they would starve to death of become prostitutes in order to survive.
I hope that you know see that the reason for why islam allows female sexslaves is in order to protect the modesty of women not to degrade her.Having said that I actually didn't know that sex outside marriage is allowed for us. It was actually quraniyoon who told me this.. i remember some years ago I came across a female quraniyah from Iraq who told me that she lost her faith in sunnism when she knew about the sexslavery issue .... I didn't believed her but asked my sheikh and he told me that the quraniyah is right but that the reason for why it is allowed is in order to protect widows of the defeated enemy which is a merciful act.
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Most Muslims are not even aware of that history. Slavery occurred invisible to most Muslims because the religious authority would not preach these things in mosques and most Islamic empires were not transparent about it.
And you think you can convert us by teaching us our history? ........... if I have to give some credit to the quraniyoon then it would definately be that they know more about 'us' then we know about 'them'.
I watched the whole first season and so did my mom. She was shocked at what was going on. People now know for the first time that harems were not belly dancers but actual slaves that the Sultan owned and had sex with whenever he wanted
Women are your fields go, then, into your fields whence you please. (Qur'an 2223)
Your intention of connection sexslavery to rape is ridiculous. Sexslavery isn't rape. A Muslim soldier must treat his female prisoner like he himself would like to be treated by others.... a hadeeth of the Prophet(saaws) also states that a Muslim should treat the people well under his authority, which includes slave girls... There is also a hadith in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad which states that one should call his slave girl his "daughter"
"..Not one of you should say ?This is my slave? , ?This is my concubine?. He should call them ?my daughter? or ?my son? or ?my brother?...." (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 2 ,4 ) . .
The logic behind the last hadith off course is that one should see his slavegirl symbolic as part of his family and not as an inferior human being. In other words one should treat his slaves (slave girls) like family, and no sane man would harm or rape people of his own family... -
Women have sexual needs and no woman can stay virgin all her life... maybe 1 out of 1000000 women can do that.. so if the master doesn't have sex with his slavegirls the slavegirls would seek sex in a haram way..
You are a misgynist. As I stated before, most women get into prostitution for money.
I hope that you know see that the reason for why islam allows female sexslaves is in order to protect the modesty of women not to degrade her.
It's not degrading to have sex with a man you don't want? Is it not degrading to have sex with a man when you are married to someone else?
Can you provide a better solution for the widows of the defeated enemy? If muslims dont take care of them they would starve to death of become prostitutes in order to survive.
Reparations, but obviously that would be unlikely since it is viewed in Sunni Islam that disbelievers can be fought if they refuse Islam and Jizyah. It would have been better to leave them alone in the first place.
BLACK SLAVES...huh ? Your intention is to make islam look like a racist religion it is not like that. White male slaves were also castrated. The reason was to ensure that muslim female owners didn't had sex with their male slaves.... a woman has to be faithful to her husband.... imagine what would happen if a husband gets to know that his wife has a male sexslave? he would most likely not control his anger and maybe kill her and if doesn't kill her he would DIVORCE her which would mean that she as a divorcee wont be able to survive except if she becomes a prostitute in order to feed herself and prostitution is not allowed in islam. So the male slaves were castrated in order to protect the modesty of muslim women and in order to avoid the break down of the family as we see in the evil westeren society where there are no control on womens sexuality
Muslim slave traders preferred black slaves and that's a fact. I can't believe you are justifying the catration of other humans.
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Islam may not espouse Racism, but the Arab traders were racist.
Sex-slavery is rape if the slave cannot say no or cannot quit.
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Slaves are property. But remember that in islam the slaves also have rights over their master e.g. to be feed and clothed properly... And there ARE NO CHAINS...
Women have sexual needs and no woman can stay virgin all her life... maybe 1 out of 1000000 women can do that.. so if the master doesn't have sex with his slavegirls the slavegirls would seek sex in a haram way..
BLACK SLAVES...huh ? Your intention is to make islam look like a racist religion it is not like that. White male slaves were also castrated. The reason was to ensure that muslim female owners didn't had sex with their male slaves.... a woman has to be faithful to her husband.... imagine what would happen if a husband gets to know that his wife has a male sexslave? he would most likely not control his anger and maybe kill her and if doesn't kill her he would DIVORCE her which would mean that she as a divorcee wont be able to survive except if she becomes a prostitute in order to feed herself and prostitution is not allowed in islam. So the male slaves were castrated in order to protect the modesty of muslim women and in order to avoid the break down of the family as we see in the evil westeren society where there are no control on womens sexuality
You are right. Women didnt participate in wars so the female slaves were not prisoners of wars as we understand it. But you have to remember in times of war the conquering Muslim army took over land where there were obviously widows whose husbands had been killed in action. Islam permits that the women are war booty for us. We have a duty to provide their basic needs however, its not just a matter of sex. Sex is permitted with them but remember that the SLAVES ALSO HAVE RIGHTS OVER THEIR MASTER. A slave can take his master to court for being treated unjustly.
Can you provide a better solution for the widows of the defeated enemy? If muslims dont take care of them they would starve to death of become prostitutes in order to survive.
I hope that you know see that the reason for why islam allows female sexslaves is in order to protect the modesty of women not to degrade her.This has to be the most ridiculous and desperate defense I have yet seen for the Sunnah. rotfl
The thing about Sunnis is they say that Muhamamd was the best of humans. The Koran tells us
2.177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah.fearing.
So why didn't the best of humans fulfill that criteria the Quran laid out for righteousness and freed all the slaves he had?
They did the opposite of what the verse said, the elevated the Qibla and kept the slaves. rotfl
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You are a misgynist. As I stated before, most women get into prostitution for money
yes thats why a woman needs a husband... so he can feed her and clothe her.. otherwise she would opt for prostitution.... that is why god allowed us to have 4 wives in order to ensure that no woman would opt for prostitution in order to survive
It's not degrading to have sex with a man you don't want? Is it not degrading to have sex with a man when you are married to someone else?
please you sound so westerner. when allah has given us the permission to have female sex slaves then allah and his rasool has spoken and we are not allowed to question it. secondly when women become war booty their marriage is automatically cancelled
Reparations, but obviously that would be unlikely since it is viewed in Sunni Islam that disbelievers can be fought if they refuse Islam and Jizyah. It would have been better to leave them alone in the first place.
But then 1,5 billion people wont be muslims today.......
Muslim slave traders preferred black slaves and that's a fact. I can't believe you are justifying the catration of other humans.
as I told you the preferation of black slaves were due to keeping the modesty of muslim women and not due to racism... a muslim woman owning a black catred slave would not think about to have sex with him... but if you gave a muslim woman BRAD PITT as a slave sure she would fornicate with him all day and night long... do you want our women to act like slutes or what? In Islam adultery and fornication is a serious crime.
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This has to be the most ridiculous and desperate defense I have yet seen for the Sunnah. rotfl
The thing about Sunnis is they say that Muhamamd was the best of humans. The Koran tells us
2.177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah.fearing.
So why didn't the best of humans fulfill that criteria the Quran laid out for righteousness and freed all the slaves he had?
They did the opposite of what the verse said, the elevated the Qibla and kept the slaves. rotfl
thats only a suggest... if it was fard the prophet wont have slaves... but the prophet freed many slaves as well.. in islam you can own slaves but to free them is also good.
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thats only a suggest... if it was fard the prophet wont have slaves... but the prophet freed many slaves as well.. in islam you can own slaves but to free them is also good.
But why did he not the want to be among the righteous and free all the salves he had? Isn't that what the most righteous person will do? If freeing slaves is an act of righteousness then you would expect the prophet to be the last not to do so. Notice verse 2.177 never said free your own slaves but free slaves. Nowhere in the Koran it even implied that believers had slaves of their own.
90.11. But he hath made no haste on the path that is steep.
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And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-
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(It is) freeing the bondman;
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Or the giving of food in a day of privation
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To the orphan with claims of relationship,
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Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.
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Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.
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Such are the Companions of the Right Hand.
Why did they not want to be among those who get saved from the drastic steep on judgment day if Muhammad and his companions were the best of mankind? Why did they not want to be among the best of the companions of the right? I know I would have surely freed the slaves I had since that is what i definently would want happen to me if i was a slave. Nobody wants to be a slave and lose his freedom. Nobody.
The reality to legailize slavery they had to make it a sunnah and by claiming that Muhammad and his companions (the best among mankind as they say) also owned slaves but treated them kind, this way its almost impossible for any authority to abolish slavery and claim its unislamic.
Hadith - Abu Dawood, Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab
When the prohibition of wine (was yet to be) declared, Umar said O Allah, give us a satisfactory explanation about wine. So the following verse of Surat al-Baqarah revealed; "They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say In them is great sin...." Umar was then called and it was recited to him. He said O Allah, give us a satisfactory explanation about wine. Then the following verse of Surat an-Nisa' was revealed "O ye who believe! approach not prayers with a mind befogged...." Thereafter the herald of the Apostle of Allah would call when the (congregational) prayer was performed Beware, one who is drunk should not come to prayer. Umar was again called and it was recited to him. He said O Allah, give us a satisfactory explanation about wine. This verse was revealed "Will ye not then abstain?" Umar said We abstained.
Narrated Anas (raa) While I was waiting on my uncles and serving them with (wine prepared from) dates, and I was the youngest of them, it was said, "Alcoholic drinks have been prohibited." So they said (to me), "Throw it away." So I threw it away.
Drinks ? Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 489
Muslims will tell you that when the verse about alcohol being a tool for the devil all the companions who used to drink suddenly threw away their bottles of wine.
So why when verse 2.177 came they did not free all their slaves out of the desire to be among the righteous ones?
They threw away their bottles of wine but kept the slaves. rotfl
Can you all imagine Muhammad preaching these verses of the Koran about freeing slaves to the pagans while the pagans are seeing him having slaves? rotfl
They will tell him why don't you free your slaves than came and tell us about freeing slaves. rotfl
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But why did he not the want to be among the righteous and free all the salves he had? Isn't that what the most righteous person will do? If freeing slaves is an act of righteousness then you would expect the prophet to be the last not to do so. Notice verse 2.177 never said free your own slaves but free slaves. Nowhere in the Koran it even implied that believers had slaves of their own.
90.11. But he hath made no haste on the path that is steep.
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And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-
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(It is) freeing the bondman;
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Or the giving of food in a day of privation
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To the orphan with claims of relationship,
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Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.
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Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.
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Such are the Companions of the Right Hand.
Why did they not want to be among those who get saved from the drastic steep on judgment day if Muhammad and his companions were the best of mankind? Why did they not want to be among the best of the companions of the right? I know I would have surely freed the slaves I had since that is what i definently would want happen to me if i was a slave. Nobody wants to be a slave and lose his freedom. Nobody.
The reality to legailize slavery they had to make it a sunnah and by claiming that Muhammad and his companions (the best among mankind as they say) also owned slaves but treated them kind, this way its almost impossible for any authority to abolish slavery and claim its unislamic.
Hadith - Abu Dawood, Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab
When the prohibition of wine (was yet to be) declared, Umar said O Allah, give us a satisfactory explanation about wine. So the following verse of Surat al-Baqarah revealed; "They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say In them is great sin...." Umar was then called and it was recited to him. He said O Allah, give us a satisfactory explanation about wine. Then the following verse of Surat an-Nisa' was revealed "O ye who believe! approach not prayers with a mind befogged...." Thereafter the herald of the Apostle of Allah would call when the (congregational) prayer was performed Beware, one who is drunk should not come to prayer. Umar was again called and it was recited to him. He said O Allah, give us a satisfactory explanation about wine. This verse was revealed "Will ye not then abstain?" Umar said We abstained.
Narrated Anas (raa) While I was waiting on my uncles and serving them with (wine prepared from) dates, and I was the youngest of them, it was said, "Alcoholic drinks have been prohibited." So they said (to me), "Throw it away." So I threw it away.
Drinks ? Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, Number 489
Muslims will tell you that when the verse about alcohol being a tool for the devil all the companions who used to drink suddenly threw away their bottles of wine.
So why when verse 2.177 came they did not free all their slaves out of the desire to be among the righteous ones?
They threw away their bottles of wine but kept the slaves. rotfl
Can you all imagine Muhammad preaching these verses of the Koran about freeing slaves to the pagans while the pagans are seeing him having slaves? rotfl
They will tell him why don't you free your slaves than came and tell us about freeing slaves. rotfl
You have a point dude... I was also thinking about the same thing... that if freeing slaves were an act of righteous deeds our prophet sws would be the last person to own slaves.... but u see dude, the problem is that sunnah tells us that the prophet did actually own slaves although he freed some of them... and the prophet sws could never go against the quran coz the prophet sws was a living quran... so the reason perhaps could be that the prophet wanted to abolish slavery but was not able to do it because it was so rooted in the society? For instance alcohol wasn't prohibited all at once but was prohibited in stages.. first the sahaba karam could not pray while being drunk, second they were told that alcohol has more harm then benefit and finally the ban came when alcohol was declared the handwork of satan.. our prophet sws said Alcohol is the mother of all diseases.
So perhaps prophet sws was not able to abolish slavery but could only encourage his followers to treat their slaves well. -
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You have a point dude... I was also thinking about the same thing... that if freeing slaves were an act of righteous deeds our prophet sws would be the last person to own slaves.... but u see dude, the problem is that sunnah tells us that the prophet did actually own slaves although he freed some of them... and the prophet sws could never go against the quran coz the prophet sws was a living quran... so the reason perhaps could be that the prophet wanted to abolish slavery but was not able to do it because it was so rooted in the society? For instance alcohol wasn't prohibited all at once but was prohibited in stages.. first the sahaba karam could not pray while being drunk, second they were told that alcohol has more harm then benefit and finally the ban came when alcohol was declared the handwork of satan.. our prophet sws said Alcohol is the mother of all diseases.
So perhaps prophet sws was not able to abolish slavery but could only encourage his followers to treat their slaves well.Alcohol is also rooted in society even more than slavery so how was he able to abolish it? Even though slavery is no longer here, at least not like it used to be, alcohol is everywhere. Even if he was not able to abolish slavery he still could have freed the slaves he had. Who would stop him?
As far as prohibiting alcohol in koran, there is no indication that the Koran dealt with it in stages.
Koranist who believe alcohol is prohibited would probably believe it was prohibited from any of the verses that mentioned it equally.
- do not approach prayer while intoxicated could be seen as prohibition of alcohol since it can get you intoxicated and mess up yourprayer.
- alcohol has benefits but also harm and its benefits outweight its harm could be a reason why some Koranist believe it therefore should be prohibited for believers
- alcohol is the impurities from the devil because it can create hostilities between people and make them abandon their prayers can be seen as a prohibition from the danegrs that alcohol can produce.
But,
at the same time those Koranist who do not see alcohol as a prohibition can tell you all of the above can be avoided if people consume alcohol moderately and responsibly. After all not everyone reacts the same with alcohol. if eating disorder and obesity is your problem that eating fatty foods with high colesterol is prohibited for you. Money can create hostilities and make people forget their religious duties also. Should we abolish that also? So it can work both ways.
But to tell me upon hearing the verse about alcohol the sahabas would throw their bottles of wine away and yet ignore slavery is ridiculous. Plus aboloshing is not the point here but how you deal with your own slaves. There is no reason for anyone to continue owning a slave. Nobody will persecute anyone who wants to free his own slaves. These hadith made aboloshing slavery impossible and in fact encouraged slavery as now it was seen as a sunnah of the prophet and his companions.
Throughout Islamic history the Islamic empires never once discouraged slavery. Most muslims are not really aware of this as these things are never preached in Juma'a prayers.
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Alcohol is also rooted in society even more than slavery so how was he able to abolish it? Even though slavery is no longer here, at least not like it used to be, alcohol is everywhere. Even if he was not able to abolish slavery he still could have freed the slaves he had. Who would stop him?
As far as prohibiting alcohol in koran, there is no indication that the Koran dealt with it in stages.
Koranist who believe alcohol is prohibited would probably believe it was prohibited from any of the verses that mentioned it equally.
- do not approach prayer while intoxicated could be seen as prohibition of alcohol since it can get you intoxicated and mess up yourprayer.
- alcohol has benefits but also harm and its benefits outweight its harm could be a reason why some Koranist believe it therefore should be prohibited for believers
- alcohol is the impurities from the devil because it can create hostilities between people and make them abandon their prayers can be seen as a prohibition from the danegrs that alcohol can produce.
But,
at the same time those Koranist who do not see alcohol as a prohibition can tell you all of the above can be avoided if people consume alcohol moderately and responsibly. After all not everyone reacts the same with alcohol. if eating disorder and obesity is your problem that eating fatty foods with high colesterol is prohibited for you. Money can create hostilities and make people forget their religious duties also. Should we abolish that also? So it can work both ways.
But to tell me upon hearing the verse about alcohol the sahabas would throw their bottles of wine away and yet ignore slavery is ridiculous. Plus aboloshing is not the point here but how you deal with your own slaves. There is no reason for anyone to continue owning a slave. Nobody will persecute anyone who wants to free his own slaves. These hadith made aboloshing slavery impossible and in fact encouraged slavery as now it was seen as a sunnah of the prophet and his companions.
Throughout Islamic history the Islamic empires never once discouraged slavery. Most muslims are not really aware of this as these things are never preached in Juma'a prayers.
your point is valid. its a mystery for me whether slavery is a punishment of unbelief or a mercy for the captives.......... I mean, I really never understood why they didnt made the captives to employed workers instead of slaves...
but why do then some quranist support slavery? Even if I for the sake of argument if I forget the sunnah, would u please explain the following quranic verses to me
''and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 2433)"
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I could be wrong but I heard it means to take of them. Food, shelter, clothing. This way they don't go out to "sell" themselves for the basic rights and necessities, all human beings should have. If she wants to be chaste this means, don't rape her or force her into sex. I know you are young, so try to imagine being held down against your will crying and being scared, not to mention the pain that goes along with forced intercourse. Do you think our beloved Prophet did this?
Even the Quran states to the married man when he approaches his wife, "Your women are like your fertile fleids, so cultivate them as you wish, but ALWAYS do something BEAUTIFUL beforehand (to make them feel loved). Be aware (of your duty to God), knowing that you'll have to stand in His presence one day, so convey good news to the faithful. (2-223- Quran translation, Yayha Emerick)