if you die before 40 you will go to heaven.
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Peace All,
I an interested to know what others think. Rashad Khalifa wrote that verses 46;15 and 16 meant that individuals who die before they repent at 40, automatically are forgiven and therefore go to heaven regardless.
When I read and ponder, I can see it is implied, otherwise, why would God bother mention the age of maturity at 40. What do others think?
Dawn.
This does not answer the question of what kinds of deeds are we talking about. You can almost always tell a person long before he is forty. I think this is talking about maturity in faith. Understanding God's plan or being able to be patient and wise.
Maybe the verse is talking about those who abandoned God when young due to problems in life and then repented as they became more mature. But personality and charachter is usually known long before he or she is forty. Depending on what kind of heart you have since God is the one who guides He can either make you turn towards Him or increase the sickness in your heart as you mature. So one becomes more mature in his faith while the other more mature in his disbelief.
The Koran tells us that when God sees a sickness in one's heart he increases that sickness if the person does not repent. But repentance is usually determined by your heart and God's guidance. Something the Koran repeatedly says is that it is God who guidesz or leads astray depending on what He sees in people's hearts.
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Salam peace
This does not answer the question of what kinds of deeds are we talking about. You can almost always tell a person long before he is forty. I think this is talking about maturity in faith. Understanding God's plan or being able to be patient and wise.
That makes sense. Maybe a human reaches the top of the curve of his/her life at 40 when it comes to everything and therefore its important for us to remember God when we are there, be thankfull and ask forforgivness.
Just wondering from a philosophical approach, what is righteous about obeying rules that are not applicable for you ?
And how is God just if He judges a righteous person and a rejector under 40 by putting them both in Janna only because of their age?
Can all the people under 30 do as they wish untill 40? and if they die before thats even better ) -
Peace,
is anyone able to comment on the grammatical link between 46;15 and 46;16?
We know that God doesn't waste any words (or numbers). Therefore, He needn't have mentioned a specific number for the age of maturity, but He chose to. If it is referring to spiritual maturity, then the implication is there that before 40, something is different, ie, we have not reached the age of maturity, therefore we cannot be held completely responsible for all that we do if we are not yet mature!!
Dawn.
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.....so when we reach maturity ie 40, then we have to do the things that a mature person would do as described in 46;16. Some of us may already be doing them before 40 but the demarcation line as far as God is concerned, is 40?
Dawn.
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Peace,
We know that God doesn't waste any words (or numbers). Therefore, He needn't have mentioned a specific number for the age of maturity, but He chose to. If it is referring to spiritual maturity, then the implication is there that before 40, something is different, ie, we have not reached the age of maturity, therefore we cannot be held completely responsible for all that we do if we are not yet mature!!Dawn.
note that it is not as saying that dying before 40 leads to heaven automatically, wich is a deduction very far from the subject of the verse and not the direct meaning of verse.
my problem with this interpretation is that before 40 everybody can make, with total impunity, all the sin he want and succomb to all tentations.
it is why i consider RK's interpretation as very very dangerous.
There would be more than half of population not responsible of their acts. Unconceavable for me.the context of the verse is clearly talking about family. 40 is an age where a man generally have to begin to take care of his parents. His statute, inside his family, generally change at that age. It is also an age where childs begin to live their own life.
40 is a turning point in a life in many fields. "when he attaineth full strength and reacheth forty years" is, for me, a good traduction of the term "balagha ashuddahu" of the verse
it is a personal opinion and sorry for my english
peace -
.....so when we reach maturity ie 40, then we have to do the things that a mature person would do as described in 46;16. Some of us may already be doing them before 40 but the demarcation line as far as God is concerned, is 40?
Dawn.
There is no indication from the Koran about this. You are reading too much into the verse. The Koran has over 6000 verses so it is difficult to make judgments based on a couple of verses. We know that Abraham was a youth when thrown in fire and we know Joseph was a youth when thrown in the well. There is no indication that God saw them as too young to judge them.
However beyond maturity i fail to see the relevance of that verse since the Koran said ashudahu which basically means the strongest a person is maturity wise or emotionally wise. Faith usually does not change with a person but usually your judgement and patience does.
Trying to figure out how God judges us is beyond human abilities anyways. The Koran talked about repentance and guidance and retribution in many many verses but never ever said that it only apllies to forty years old and over. Interpretations like this must be done with explicit verses and not by implicit reasoning. The Koran warned us against making theological decisions based on implicit verses but we must look at the core message of the Koran and look at the explicit verses.
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. 3.7
This is what seperates us from the Sects. The sects usually run after implicit verses creating major theological decisions like the Book and wisdom means Book and Sunnah etc or the Shias claiming the verse that says who has knowledge of the scripture as referring to Ali or the Sunnis claiming the verse of the opening chapter(the fatiha chapter) talking about those whom you are angry with and those whom are led astray as refering to Jews and Christians etc. Many of their rulings are based on these kind of verses. Jizya meaning tax to be paid by non Muslims to the Sultan and other dictators is another. The sects are filled with such decisions.
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Peace,
If a person dies before 40, he/she may end up in Hell if he/she is a rejector/polytheist.
Verse 4615-16 states that a person who reaches 40, is mature, and states the phrase that God has given - will be forgiven all their previous sins.
4615 And We enjoined man to do good to his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says 'My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good work that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted.'
4616 It is from these that We accept the best of their deeds, and We shall overlook their sins, among the dwellers of the Paradise. This is the promise of truth that they had been promised.
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.....so when we reach maturity ie 40, then we have to do the things that a mature person would do as described in 46;16. Some of us may already be doing them before 40 but the demarcation line as far as God is concerned, is 40?
Dawn.
The verse reminds me of the difference between me and one of my brothers. It fits the verses perfectly. My parents do not approve of him because some of his character flaws. I have known this for a time and I know he does not really have faith. My parents it seems have lost hope in him. My mother refused to acknowledge his flaws and even once accused me of being jeolous cause his life was more successful than mine at least financially and he did not have the same challenges as I did. She now flipped 100 degrees on him and complains repeatedly about him. Not something easy to do for parents. He is stingy and selfish and never cares about religion. .I think the verse is talking about it from a parents point of view. Notice the previous verses and how it talks about it.
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We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents In pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did she give him birth. The carrying of the (child) to his weaning is (a period of) thirty months. At length, when he reaches the age of full strength and attains forty years, he says, "O my Lord! Grant me that I may be grateful for Thy favour which Thou has bestowed upon me, and upon both my parents, and that I may work righteousness such as Thou mayest approve; and be gracious to me in my issue. Truly have I turned to Thee and truly do I bow (to Thee) in Islam."
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Such are they from whom We shall accept the best of their deeds and pass by their ill deeds (They shall be) among the Companions of the Garden a promise! of truth, which was made to them (in this life).
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But (there is one) who says to his parents, "Fie on you! Do ye hold out the promise to me that I shall be raised up, even though generations have passed before me (without rising again)?" And they two seek Allah.s aid, (and rebuke the son) "Woe to thee! Have faith! for the promise of Allah is true." But he says, "This is nothing but tales of the ancients!"
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Such are they against whom is proved the sentence among the previous generations of Jinns and men, that have passed away; for they will be (utterly) lost.
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And to all are (assigned) degrees according to the deeds which they (have done), and in order that ((Allah)) may recompense their deeds, and no injustice be done to them.
Just shows to understand some verses of the Koran you need personal experiences to understand the meaning. But eitehr way you can usual tell a person but parents may be in denial till it becomes clear the child they had is going astray.
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