Is Jerusalem the Qibla?
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Salaam,
This is a genuine question, not sarcastic how do we know Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, lived near Sodom and Gomorrah and didn't just happen to be camped in that region during the revelation of sura 37?
Thanks
SLM,
So interesting "topic", i am so "glad" to hav? find it by azar !
You "sounds" full of "knowledge", could you help me, i am ? "beginer"..
Where in th? "quran" could we found th? name (of) "muhammad" and How it is "exact l'y" writed
Down !?
I Would like to "know", what feets better... "prophet" or "messenger" !??
Is it th? same ???
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Dear Raging,
I understand that some preconceptions are more difficult to let go than others...Even when the Qibla was shifted as a test for the Muslims, many found it very difficult to let go of the association they had made with a specific location and therefore failed the test.
God encompasses everything, therefore no matter if we turn to the east or the west, we will find the face of God.
However, if God tells us to unite on a specific site, then we can only "hear & obey".
As Muslims our Qibla has been designated to the "Masjid AlHaram/Restricted Temple" and the location of our pilgrimage is to "Bakka".
Tell me you are not sure where these locations are and I can accept that premise...Tell me that "Mecca" is your Qibla and pilgrimage, and I will say you are following what God has never authorized.
Regards,
SLM,
"clear" & "simple" to "comprehend" !
Thank you.
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Brother raginggaijin I sympathize with you and I admire your enthusiasm since you and I both came from Christian backgrounds. However I implore you to reconsider your position. The Mosque mentioned in Sura 171 as being the most distant temple is NOT Jerusalem ( your videos have inaccuracies ) . The Quran did NOT SAY SO. Read the Arabic yourself. Till you can show me and others where it says that the Mosque in Jerusalem is ?almasjidi al-aqsa? then you are only following conjecture.
Also the place of pilgrimage is at Bakka as the Quran says. Not Mecca!
396-97 The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.You can?t say that Mecca is Bakka there are both two different places! The city of Mecca is mentioned only once in the Quran and it was a place that was blocking there donations to the Sacred Masjid. NO WHERE IN THE QURAN DOES IT SAY THAT THE MASJID RESIDED IN MECCA!
You are only following sectarian beliefs which you assume to be correct. Am I not right in saying that you are a bit na?ve . Do you really think that ?the way? was going to be just paved out for you without any sort of studying or verification? Didn?t God say in the Quran not to accept any information unless you verify it for yourself ?(Sura 1736) Have you yourself verified that Mecca is the correct place and not Jerusalem or did you just run with the crowd? Have you studied the history yourself or did you blindly accept what other people said?
Please verify the evidence yourself and you will see that all roads lead to Jerusalem and not Mecca.
Peace,
Kevin D.Cooper peace
SLM,
could you be "blessed" for your "Time" sharing here
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Peace Raging
According to the Quran the pilgrimage is to the house ( and not to the Masjidul Haram). The house was existing during Abrahams time. Abraham was raising the foundation and purifying the house, therefore your point of the non existence of a structure contradicts the Quran. Then Abraham invites mankind for the pilgrimage. So the pilgrimage would have happened from that point.
The bibilical temple Solomon built was after the Exodus. But the actual existence of Solomons temple is debated. Jerusalem is the most excavated place on earth for archeological research and IMHO there has not been one single evidence of such a temple. Maybe evidence of Herods temple but not Solomons temple. But I would like to see any information on this.
SLM,
do you mean " ibrahim " !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Brother raginggaijin your argument that bakka is in Lebanon is foolish and holds no water.
Bakka (Baca) is a Hebrew name that was used by the Jews to describe a valley in Palestine (For those of you who know your history Israel was part of Palestine before the region was divided). The name bakka in Lebanon was properly coined after ?Islamic conquests?
Read this article http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah
?Baca is a Hebrew name that dates to before 1000 BC of a valley in Palestine, and is also a Hebrew term for balsam or mulberry trees that "weep" or bleed sap when they are cut. Bakkah is a more modern language 7th century AD Quraysh Arabic dialect name that some suggest refers to Mecca.?
Bekka is not Mecca. If that was the case then God would have said so in the Quran. However he didn?t . Also no where in the Quran does God say the almasjidi alaqsa ( the most distant temple) is Jerusalem. You are making assumptions with no proof. You are saying things that God never said in the Quran. Also nowhere in the Quran does it say that the Sacred Masjid resided in Mecca.
Sura 6116 If you obey the majority of those on earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
SLM,
Could you let me know, when "Palestine" came on "writing" !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Peace all,
This can be solved if you study the Torah and Injeel along with the Quran. My believe is that God protected the books He asked us to believe in. And if there are any distortions, then it will be within the translation but not within the original language. As we all know, the Quran has 1000s of translations with different meanings, as with the Torah and Injeel, but one true Arabic version that no one can play with or deny its authentication and purity.Torah, Injeel and Quran point to Jerusalem as the place where Maqum Abraham exist today.
PeaceSLM,
What is th? "original language" ???
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Salam Warner,
Qibla = to face / head towards.
As for the translation not making sence, you need to read the entire context again - carefully.
Moses and his people are on the run from Phraoh...They have left their homes behind them in Egypt and are on the move towards the Red Sea heading for the Holy Land...God tells them through Moses to make their homes as their "Qibla" which means facing backwards towards the area of danger that Pharoah and his army are comming, rather than the Holy Land and giving their backs to Pharoah and his army.
SLM,
do you mean, that qibla, came from h?breu !
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Proof of this claim that Bakka in Lebanon was coined after 'Islamic conquests'?
You ignore the fact the Hebrew is still with us today, which disproves your 'Baca' comment. If you refuse to believe me, check the Hebrew yourself.
Hebrew (emeq habakka) Psalm 841-12
"Behold, the first Temple ever set up for mankind was indeed the one at Bakkah, rich in blessing, and a guidance unto all the worlds," Surah 396
Arabic (B-k-h)
Hebrew (B-k-h)Those who say there is no relation between Hebrew and Arabic refuse to acknowledge the Semitic origins of both languages. I suggest you look up 'Semitic Languages' on Wikipedia or other venues of knowledge, and then turn to the Hebrew Books to see your knowledge of Arabic will assist you in understanding their ancient Hebrew writ in their Masoretic texts.
If you want to uphold Wikipedia and other hadiths of man over the Books Allah revealed, you are more than welcome to do so. As shown, I bring proofs from the Quran and what is verified in previous Books to show why I believe what I believe.
However, before you lump me in with the 'majority', realize that I am the only person here saying our qiblah is Masjid Al-Haram, in Mecca.
The Islamists say our qiblah is the Kaaba, the House inside Masjid Al-Haram.
The Free-Minds followers say our qiblah is Jerusalem.So in actuality, I am not the majority, but part of a very small minority.
Even if it's an Ummah of one, uphold the Truth.All power is due to Allah, Lord of all beings.
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.Peace.
SLM,
Who said, there is n? "relation" between "arabic" & "h?brew" !
"who" ?
... Its easy to "see" ... (some want to Translate th? "quran" from "aramean" & "other" ... They s?re l'y are "islamophob".
But you, are you Japanese "gaijin" with "rage" !??
Hope & wish you to be "humble" .. And that we could "face" th? "Truth" be fore too late.
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
In regards to "the Bible", it is incomplete, edited and (re)added to in order to suit the agendas of the people who first tried to subdue Christianity in the first place.
I regard any document with suspicion.
Especially those written by "religious scholars".If you wipe the lines on the map, it's one chunk of land amidst one sea.
Al Lah didn't draw those lines. People did.SLM,
First Time i "see" writen " al lah ",
That make "sens" .. Meaning th? only one god.
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Salam Layth
Agreed, " twisting the meaning" above is bit harsh. I withdraw that remark.
Here is your (F/M) translation of 2144 .
Ni"...........We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it."..................................."
You have translated the qibla as "focal point" here and not as "face/head towards". I think you have mixed up these words unintentionally.
Let me try to explain the difference between qa ba la ( in front/ opposite) and face/head towards. Lets assume in a street HSBC is exactly in front of / opposite City Bank. If you stand at the front entrance of City Bank and assume HSBC is your focal point the qibla is HSBC. While you are doing the facing or if you cross the road and walk towards the HSBC the actions "face/head towards" does not become the qibla or your qibla. As I said qibla is always in front/opposite to where you face . So by default your focal point should be in front/ opposite to where you are.
SLM,
OK, Everyone, could be Happy, now
Even if some Where facing ? Town at that Time, th?ir Black Were facing another one !
That s it ?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Isn?t Bakka unknown (completely foreign) to Islamic scholars? Ask today's average Imam and they don?t even know where Bakka is. The majority of them ASSUME that it is an old name for the city of Mecca. The fact is there is absolutely NO concrete evidence to prove that Bakka is an old name for the city of Mecca. If you know someone who is an Imam go to them and ask them yourself. For those of you who have a copy of Yusef Ali?s translation of the Quran read the commentary of 396
http//www.quran4u.com/Tafsiraya/003%20Imran.htm
Sura 396 The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka
C422. Bakka same as Makkah, perhaps an older name. The foundation of the Ka'bah goes back to Abraham, but there are place associations in the sacred territories with the names of Adam and Eve. (R).
( Why isn?t he sure that Bakka is Mecca?)
Question for warner The above is a commentary of one the most respected Islamic scholars. Does Yusef Ali (who I assume you have heard about) seem to you like he knows where Bakka is? Isn?t he making an assumption? Doesn?t this prove that Bakka is foreign name or completely unknown to those you lived in Arabia?
Also the fact that Bakka is written in Arabic doesn?t mean that is (well was) originally an Arabic word.
For example if I wanted to write that I live in Toronto, Canada in Japanese I would write its Japanese equivalent. However if I wanted to SAY that I live in Toronto , Canada I would say Japanese for " I live in? ??. Toronto, Canada (in English)
The questions that you should be asking warner is who had first claim on the word Baaka (or better yet the sound of the word) Also why is this word a mystery to Islamic scholars and not to those of the previous scripture?
http//www.wrestedscriptures.com/a08islam/psalm84v6.html
? In 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles the valley of Baka is a valley full of balsam bushes near the valley of Rephaim. This is to the southwest of Jerusalem and forms an approach route to the city. ?
God doesn?t make mistakes.
Note Bakka is not a foreign name or word to the people of the previous scriptures.
Question for Patanahi Does the Quran say in Arabic that the most distant mosque is in Jerusalem or did you assume that it is in Jerusalem? Sura 17 1
Peace
Kevin peace
SLM,
So, "who" first, "claimed" it ?
Is B or M in "arabic" ( or "hebrew" are close !?
Ka'bah ... In "BahKa" .. Sorry
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
You are making an error in understanding the collection of Books called the Bible, however. This may be due to being new to the deen of Al-Islam and your past as a Christian.
The previous Books do not verify the Quran. The Quran verifies the previous Books.Allah warns you about upholding the previous Books over what He revealed
"And We have sent down to thee the Book with the truth, confirming the Book that was before it, and assuring it. So judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, to forsake the truth that has come to thee. To every one of you We have appointed a right way and an open road. If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance.
And judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, and beware of them lest they tempt thee away from any of what God has sent down to thee. But if they turn their backs, know that God desires only to smite them for some sin they have committed; surely, many men are ungodly.
Is it the judgment of pagandom then that they are seeking? Yet who is fairer in judgment than God, for a people having sure faith?" Surah 548-50The previous Books have been altered and tampered with.
Altering the word Surah 275, 279, 378, 446, 514-15, 7162"Are you then so eager that they should believe you, seeing there is a party of them that heard God's word, and then tampered with it, and that after they had comprehended it, wittingly?" Surah 275
"So woe to those who write the Book with their hands, then say, 'This is from God,' that they may sell it for a little price; so woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for their earnings." Surah 279
"And there is a sect of them twist their tongues with the Book, that you may suppose it part of the Book, yet it is not part of the Book; and they say, 'It is from God,' yet it is not from God, and they speak falsehood against God, and that wittingly." Surah 378The Quran gives description of the location of Masjid Al-Haram, and that location is Mecca. Proof is given throughout this thread from the Quran.
I follow only what Allah revealed, the word of an honored Messenger The Quran.
The link is in the ayats that follow Surah 171. They give the description of the Temple of the Bani Israel that was destroyed twice for their disobedience.
?And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Book 'You shall do corruption in the earth twice, and you shall ascend exceeding high.'
So, when the promise of the first of these came to pass, We sent against you servants of Ours, men of great might, and they went through the habitations, and it was a promise performed.
Then We gave back to you the turn to prevail over them, and We succoured you with wealth and children, and We made you a greater host.
'If you do good, it is your own souls you do good to, and if you do evil it is to them likewise.' Then, when the promise of the second came to pass, We sent against you Our servants to discountenance you, and to enter the Temple (almasjida), as they entered it the first time, and to destroy utterly that which they ascended to.? Surah 174-7Which Temple was destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Israel?
The Temple in Jerusalem, the precincts Allah has blessed as shown in Surah 171.Muhammad (pbuh) did not know the Book nor faith until Allah revealed to him.
"Even so We have revealed to thee a Spirit of Our bidding. Thou knewest not what the Book was, nor belief; but We made it a light, whereby We guide whom We will of Our servants. And thou, surely thou shalt guide unto a straight path --" Surah 4252
I have created videos using the skills Allah has taught me that contain information on these topics. Insha'Allah, they are study references for those who study the Quran.
Don't take my word for it though. Double-check everything I say, confirm it, and follow only what Allah revealed. If you have a question in translation, return to the Arabic revelation for confirmation.
Classical Arabic is not a dead language like ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, or Koine Greek. There are many resources to help you; ask Allah to guide you and explain to you. )Proof Qiblah
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhq1BDBG3ZsProof Hajj
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=i21uxpnjyXgSyncretism Rituals of Hajj
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jY_6d7KBewMay Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace and blessings.
SLM,
Dont you " think ",
That " Mu'Hamad " "heard" or knew about all th? "books" around ...!?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
The Qur?an was written in Arabic, and Muhammad was an Arabian (4144). ?His people? were therefore Arabs.
He was an Arab and was turned to a qiblah (direction of salaat) that he would like (2144). The Jews and Christians would NEVER agree with this qiblah (2145).
We know the Arab Muslims settled near the Sacred Mosque (92. If the Sacred Mosque were in Jerusalem, there would be so many ?idolaters? around that they could not be kept away from it (since it was their place!).
Also, the place where the Muslims settled was the place that they were expelled from (913). Their flight is in 9100. Therefore the qiblah should be in Mecca.
The Kaaba is referred to as the ?sacred House? in 52 and other places. The Quraish (an Arabian tribe) were to serve the Lord of THIS House (1063).
SLM,
Very interesting,
"who" d?fine "arabia" and when... In what "year" arabia, was born & existed !?
What is ? "mosque", and Where could i read it, for th? first Time ??
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Peace Raging
The city of Petra seem to be a very good candidate for the city from which the Messenger got expelled from. Layth shares the same view as well.
But why do you think it is to Mecca and not Medina(mentioned as Yathrib in the Quran) to which the Messenger emigrated ?
SLM,
Why yathrib if its m?dina !?
Do th? "quran" real y "talk" about "m?dian" !!?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Peace KDC 501
While credit should go to Yusuf Ali for translating the Quran into English, at a time when, many such translations were not available. But I don't treat him as one of the most respected Islamic scholars. He is possibly a great sunni scholar.
Please see what he says about Bakka,
C422. Bakka same as Makkah, perhaps an older name. The foundation of the Ka'bah goes back to Abraham, but there are place associations in the sacred territories with the names of Adam and Eve. (R).
Check the bold print. He is 100% certain that Bakka is Mecca. IOW he has no doubt that the place Mecca is as same as Bakka. His "perhaps" seems to be only about whether its a new name , old name or an contemporary ?
In the same way any sunni ulema will tell you bakka is same as mecca.
You must check the original Hebrew or Aramaic bibles to check whether it is Baka , bakka or Bica ? We will be on a wild goose chase with the English translation.
SLM,
from Where does C?me th? word "ul?ma" !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
'Peace' followed by Insult. Nifty.
There are numerous translations that disagree with you. However, substitute what you will, and it still fits.
The Temple environs comprise Masjid Al-Aqsa, not the small building.
The Temple surroundings comprise Masjid Al-Aqsa, not the small building.And when we view Masjid Al-Aqsa from above, what do we see?
The whole area of the Temple, the boundary defined by the limiting structures that were once walls, comprises Masjid Al-Aqsa.
http//farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/3316055277_b7ba307d6c_o.jpg
To you are your deeds, to me are mine. On the Day of Judgment we will know who is rightly guided, and who was led astray.
Pray for guidance. Turn to Allah.Peace.
SLM,
What "Mu'Hamad" h?ve to "see" with jeru-Salem !
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Salam Patanahi,
Who is to say they are hilltops? The words "Safa" means "Stone/rock" (see the use of "Safwan" in the Quran).
The temple of Jerusalem has a "stone'rock" at its center (hence the name the "dome of the Rock"
SFM,
Whats about " marwa " !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Correction Bekka is in Jerusalem. And the temple resides in Jerusalem (where the Dome of the Rock is situated) (Mt. Moriah , Marwah in Arabic) where Abraham attempted to sacrifice his son.
This other issue in regards to Hajj , as far as I'm aware of , Pilgrimage has been in the existence since the time of Jews.
If Pilgrimage wasn't necessary why would God place verses in the Quran dealing with the religious rites of Pilgrimage?2196 Complete the Pilgrimage and the visit for God. But, if you are prevented, then make what is affordable of donation, and do not shave your heads until the donation reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by fasting or giving a charity or a sacrifice. But if you are able, then whoever continues the visit until the Pilgrimage, then he shall provide what is affordable of donation. If one cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not present at the Restricted Temple. Be conscientious of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
2197 The Pilgrimage is in the four known months. So, whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor quarreling in the Pilgrimage. Any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is awareness; and be conscientious of Me O you who possesses intelligence.Peace,
KevinSLM,
Moriah = marwa ... Its becoming "clear" as "quartz" !
Thank you... Is Moriah, new ?
Is it sill "existing" ?
Could it "be" hebrew&arab !?
Or, is "it", th? same ???
Is this WHY, all wants to "walk" to "uru salimu" !??
Those "vers?s" above are they from "quran" or "biblo" ???
"who" should shave "head" ... ?
"Hindu" !?!
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"