What do they recognize? Concept of God, Qur'an or the Messenger??
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618 Say "What could most weightily bear witness to the truth?" Say "God is witness between me and you; and this Qur?an has been revealed unto me so that on the strength thereof I might warn you and all whom it may reach." Could you in truth bear witness that there are other deities side by side with God? Say "I bear no witness!" Say "He is the One God; and, behold, far be it from me to ascribe divinity, as, you do, to aught beside Him!"
619
They unto whom we have vouchsafed revelation aforetime know this as they know their own children; yet those who have squandered their own selves -it is they who refuse to believe.
Shakir
Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they recognize their sons; (as for) those who have lost their souls, they will not believe.
Shabbir
Those who have been given the Scripture, recognize this fact as they recognize their sons (the fact of God's Transcendental Uniqueness and Oneness). Yet those who have squandered their own "Self" fail to accept such undeniable Truth.
Those who were recipients of Our Word -Jews and Christians- to whom We gave the Book -AL-Tawrah and AL-Injil (Torah and Bible) do recognize this Book -the Quran- as well as the Messenger to whom it is sent. They assert the existence of this reality as much as they are able to assert the identity of their sons, but those who are cheaply vicious to the perdition of their own souls refuse to recognize the truth.
Question What the Qur?an mean by ?They recognize as they recognize their sons??. Is (tying it to the previous verse) it the fact that Alalh is One and he has no partners? Or does it mean that the People of the Book recognize Muhammad (S) as a true Messenger? If the latter is meant than the question would arise as to why would they not accept him even though they recognize him as they would their sons?
The issue is the way Qur?an is translated. Although each translator tries to the best he/she can, sometimes the way they go about it, does not satisfy a curious mind.
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Salaam,
It is not really hard to understand a simple aayat. Most of the translators overlooked it, I don't know why, what was their intentions, Allah knows best.
620
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.It is as simple as
A news paper boy threw one in my neighbor's house.
What do you understand by this? Did the boy threw a chicken in neighbor's house? nope Of course he threw the news paper.
If you look at the aayat, it says to whom we gave the Book, they know it as they know their children. D
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam,
It is not really hard to understand a simple aayat. Most of the translators overlooked it, I don't know why, what was their intentions, Allah knows best.
620
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.It is as simple as
A news paper boy threw one in my neighbor's house.
What do you understand by this? Did the boy threw a chicken in neighbor's house? nope Of course he threw the news paper.
If you look at the aayat, it says to whom we gave the Book, they know it as they know their children. D
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanThose whom We had earlier given the Book, they recognize him in the manner as they conveniently recognize their sons .
Did somebody say that he recognizes news paper as he recoginizes his son?
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Those whom We had earlier given the Book, they recognize him in the manner as they conveniently recognize their sons .
Did somebody say that he recognizes news paper as he recoginizes his son?
Salaam,
It is not really hard to understand a simple aayat. Most of the translators overlooked it, I don't know why, what was their intentions, Allah knows best.
620
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.It is as simple as
A news paper boy threw one in my neighbor's house.
What do you understand by this? Did the boy threw a chicken in neighbor's house? nope Of course he threw the news paper.
If you look at the aayat, it says to whom we gave the Book, they know it as they know their children.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanNeed to discuss it. What does it state there ?
- They know
- They know it
- They know him
- They know her
The key difference between the approaches of mmkhan and Mazhar is "know it" vs "know him".
Without confusing me further, can both of you clarify your positions ? Why you chose it/him ?
The way I have always seen it is "know it", which ofcourse refers to the Book. Alternatively, you can look at the preceding ayaat and get another meaning. For example
619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur'an that I may warn you with it and whoever it reaches, that you are bearing witness that with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you have set up!"
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.
So, another alternative approach would be to redirect "know it" to the facts stated in verse 19, the ones I highlighted in Red. The ones whom God gave the Book know this fact very well.
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
is the for the Relative Pronoun preceding it, whichs is the subject of Nominal sentence. Its role in the sentence ends.
is the Predicate and object of the verb has nothing to do with which is the second object of verb .Even otherwise, recognizing a book has no relevance and equation with recognizing sons.
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is the for the Relative Pronoun preceding it, whichs is the subject of Nominal sentence. Its role in the sentence ends.
is the Predicate and object of the verb has nothing to do with which is the second object of verb .Even otherwise, recognizing a book has no relevance and equation with recognizing sons.
Shalom,
It will take me some time to get my head around the grammar bit.
However, the last part of your post is not necessarily true.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah
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It will take me some time to get my head around the grammar bit.
I have mentioned in the article "Bisme";
The prerequisite to accurately and comprehensively perceive the perception and thought conveyed in Arabic text is to know and determine the relation of each and every word with its preceding and subsequent word while determining its own position and role played in the sentence/text. One cannot comprehensively perceive the thought/idea conveyed therein merely by knowing the vocabulary of language. Some say about Arabic that we learn Arabic to read Arabic.
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Peace Friends
Seems as if From Dr Shabbir's (and some other) translations the issue here is the concept of Allah (and that there are no dieties besides Him) a fact which the People of the Book recognise/know as they do their sons.
However, although believing in One God, they (the Jews) take their priests as if they were gods and the Christians (although professing to believe in One God) mess their concept up with the theory of Trinity.
If (as some believe) the meaning should be that the People of the Book recognise/know the Qur'an and/or Muhammad (S) as they do their own sons, then the question that can be raised is why, then they did not accept him?
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If (as some believe) the meaning should be that the People of the Book recognise/know the Qur'an and/or Muhammad (S) as they do their own sons, then the question that can be raised is why, then they did not accept him?
Ask from the Qur'aan it will give you the answer.
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Does this also not help to understand the Object Pronoun under debate?
Salaam Mazhar
The word "rasool" is mainly "the message".
It gave its name to its carrier.
Knowing the man does not imply anything...The quraan tells us that the prophet will complain of his own people for ignoring the quraan.
Also, the people who knew the prophet since his childhood were those who disbelieved him most.From Lisaan-ul-Arab
(the "rasool" is the message and what/ who is sent).
Also
. (rasool is so called because he has a rasool, i.e a risala )
In the quraan we haveAnd go, both of you, unto Pharaoh and say, ?Behold, we "bear a message (rasool)" from the Sustainer of all the worlds (2616)
Back to the main verses 620 and 2 146.
If we carefully read the context of the preceding verses, we find that the "people of the book" are arguing with what the messenger was telling them or doing, not about who the messenger was.
Knowing something as you know your sons is a comparison, parable, of recognitions and does not necessarily apply to people in this context.
I completely agree with the rendition of Shabbir, Maududi, Yousuf Ali and Asad. -
Salaam Mazhar
The word "rasool" is mainly "the message".
It gave its name to its carrier.
Knowing the man does not imply anything...The quraan tells us that the prophet will complain of his own people for ignoring the quraan.
Also, the people who knew the prophet since his childhood were those who disbelieved him most.From Lisaan-ul-Arab
(the "rasool" is the message and what/ who is sent).
Also
. (rasool is so called because he has a rasool, i.e a risala )
In the quraan we haveAnd go, both of you, unto Pharaoh and say, ?Behold, we "bear a message (rasool)" from the Sustainer of all the worlds (2616)
Back to the main verses 620 and 2 146.
If we carefully read the context of the preceding verses, we find that the "people of the book" are arguing with what the messenger was telling them or doing, not about who the messenger was.
Knowing something as you know your sons is a comparison, parable, of recognitions and does not necessarily apply to people in this context.
I completely agree with the rendition of Shabbir, Maududi, Yousuf Ali and Asad.Salam Sister,
The words are not interchangeable. Rasul does not mean message. Both are distinct.
(6 (69)
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If we carefully read the context of the preceding verses, we find that the "people of the book" are arguing with what the messenger was telling them or doing, not about who the messenger was.
Knowing something as you know your sons is a comparison, parable, of recognitions and does not necessarily apply to people in this context.
I completely agree with the rendition of Shabbir, Maududi, Yousuf Ali and Asad.
+1. Better fits with context in those translations. -
Does this also not help to understand the Object Pronoun under debate?
Thank you for quoting this aayat, here it is.
2369
2369 Or did they not know their messenger? For they are in denial of him.You can look at the pattern, when the aayat talks about Rasool then the HU is referring to Rasool.
1258
1258 And the brothers of Yousuf came and entered upon him, and he recognized them, but they did not recognize him.You see how HU is referring to Yousuf as it is mentioned earlier in the same aayat?
727
727 O Children of Adam, do not let the Shaitaan afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe.Even in a long aayat HU is referring to the context of the aayat.
Following aayaats shows that HU is referring to non-humans.
7146
7146 I will turn away from My revelations those who are arrogant on the earth without right, and if they see every sign they do not believe in it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of mischief, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our revelations and were heedless of them.Again HU is referring to the context mentioned in the same aayat.
1614
1614 And He is the One who has commissioned the ocean, that you may eat from it a tender meat, and that you may extract from it pearls that you wear. And you see the ships flowing through it, so that you may seek from His bounty, and that you may be thankful.Is it possible to drag Muhammed in and try to fit in place of HU in all the aayaats above? If not, then what is the problem in understanding 620? Where did Muhammed came in between in 620 when it clearly talks about AlKitaab?
620
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.BTW, what is the use of knowing Muhammed as we know our sons? If we know AlKitaab as we know our sons, that will be really help to save us on each and every step we take in our life.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
620
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.BTW, what is the use of knowing Muhammed as we know our sons? If we know AlKitaab as we know our sons, that will be really help to save us on each and every step we take in our life.
Since too many Ayah are there it might be time consuming to give grammatical analysis. Let us attend only this Ayah.
Which they know like their own children? And simultaneously what is that in which they do not believe?
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618 Say "What could most weightily bear witness to the truth?" Say "God is witness between me and you; and this Qur?an has been revealed unto me so that on the strength thereof I might warn you and all whom it may reach." Could you in truth bear witness that there are other deities side by side with God? Say "I bear no witness!" Say "He is the One God; and, behold, far be it from me to ascribe divinity, as, you do, to aught beside Him!"
619
They unto whom we have vouchsafed revelation aforetime know this as they know their own children; yet those who have squandered their own selves -it is they who refuse to believe.
Shakir
Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they recognize their sons; (as for) those who have lost their souls, they will not believe.
Shabbir
Those who have been given the Scripture, recognize this fact as they recognize their sons (the fact of God's Transcendental Uniqueness and Oneness). Yet those who have squandered their own "Self" fail to accept such undeniable Truth.
Those who were recipients of Our Word -Jews and Christians- to whom We gave the Book -AL-Tawrah and AL-Injil (Torah and Bible) do recognize this Book -the Quran- as well as the Messenger to whom it is sent. They assert the existence of this reality as much as they are able to assert the identity of their sons, but those who are cheaply vicious to the perdition of their own souls refuse to recognize the truth.
Question What the Qur?an mean by ?They recognize as they recognize their sons??. Is (tying it to the previous verse) it the fact that Alalh is One and he has no partners? Or does it mean that the People of the Book recognize Muhammad (S) as a true Messenger? If the latter is meant than the question would arise as to why would they not accept him even though they recognize him as they would their sons?
The issue is the way Qur?an is translated. Although each translator tries to the best he/she can, sometimes the way they go about it, does not satisfy a curious mind.
SLM,
Very interesting, for me, to know and understand, what is, in your "post"..
Pleaz, could you help, me !
Are they;
"assad",
"shakir",
"shabbir",
"al Muntakhib","traducters", "translater" of th? "Quran" !?
If so, "at what Time" in th? "history" ?
Thank you, i am waiting for your "words".
Peace&Truth for All
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Need to discuss it. What does it state there ?
- They know
- They know it
- They know him
- They know her
The key difference between the approaches of mmkhan and Mazhar is "know it" vs "know him".
Without confusing me further, can both of you clarify your positions ? Why you chose it/him ?
The way I have always seen it is "know it", which ofcourse refers to the Book. Alternatively, you can look at the preceding ayaat and get another meaning. For example
619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur'an that I may warn you with it and whoever it reaches, that you are bearing witness that with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you have set up!"
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.
So, another alternative approach would be to redirect "know it" to the facts stated in verse 19, the ones I highlighted in Red. The ones whom God gave the Book know this fact very well.
Peace
----------- Student of AllahSLM,
"Dear" "student".CouldWould you, "help" me !
I am lost ...
Who are those "translaters" ?
From which p?riods of "Times" ?
And why, is it, so difficult to "Translate" ? message "given" in ? "clear" "language' ?I cant "understand", all those "differen?es" !
What's about 619 ...
Is it, from th? "Quran" ?
I dont understand .. Why, its writen ... This "Quran" !Why, this and not the !?
And why in this "verse" or maybe in all th? "quran" (cause i am ? "beginner...)
Its writen; "say" ... ??Who said, "say" ???
And Why ????
Peace&Truth for All
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I have mentioned in the article "Bisme";
The prerequisite to accurately and comprehensively perceive the perception and thought conveyed in Arabic text is to know and determine the relation of each and every word with its preceding and subsequent word while determining its own position and role played in the sentence/text. One cannot comprehensively perceive the thought/idea conveyed therein merely by knowing the vocabulary of language. Some say about Arabic that we learn Arabic to read Arabic.
SLM,
You "sounds" like an "expert",
So i try m'y chance, with you, Dear MZHR !I try to know since, some Times, what does mean, in "arabic", " MU " ?
Could you help me !
Thank you, for your Time & Knowledge.
Peace&Truth for All
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Thank you for quoting this aayat, here it is.
2369
2369 Or did they not know their messenger? For they are in denial of him.You can look at the pattern, when the aayat talks about Rasool then the HU is referring to Rasool.
1258
1258 And the brothers of Yousuf came and entered upon him, and he recognized them, but they did not recognize him.You see how HU is referring to Yousuf as it is mentioned earlier in the same aayat?
727
727 O Children of Adam, do not let the Shaitaan afflict you as he evicted your parents from the paradise; he removes from them their garments to show them their bodies. He and his tribe see you from where you do not see them. We have made the devils as allies for those who do not believe.Even in a long aayat HU is referring to the context of the aayat.
Following aayaats shows that HU is referring to non-humans.
7146
7146 I will turn away from My revelations those who are arrogant on the earth without right, and if they see every sign they do not believe in it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of mischief, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our revelations and were heedless of them.Again HU is referring to the context mentioned in the same aayat.
1614
1614 And He is the One who has commissioned the ocean, that you may eat from it a tender meat, and that you may extract from it pearls that you wear. And you see the ships flowing through it, so that you may seek from His bounty, and that you may be thankful.Is it possible to drag Muhammed in and try to fit in place of HU in all the aayaats above? If not, then what is the problem in understanding 620? Where did Muhammed came in between in 620 when it clearly talks about AlKitaab?
620
620 Those to whom We have given the Book know it as they know their children. Those who lost their souls, they do not believe.BTW, what is the use of knowing Muhammed as we know our sons? If we know AlKitaab as we know our sons, that will be really help to save us on each and every step we take in our life.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanSLM,
& Thank you, Very much for your message.I dont know, if its possible for you, to add, th? "phonetic",
For those, like me, who doesnot "know" !It Would be gr??t, from you, in your "quest" of "goods",
But surely, i know, Thats not an easy "way" to do, and i Will comprehend, that is not possible for you, to do.And from, m'y "Eyes"... Yes, we should "know", ours "children", WELL.
Thank you, for your Time & "d?votion".
Peace&Truth for All
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Since too many Ayah are there it might be time consuming to give grammatical analysis. Let us attend only this Ayah.
Which they know like their own children? And simultaneously what is that in which they do not believe?
Which AlKitaab brother? hmm How many AlKitaabs do you know? There is only ONE and SINGLE AlKitaab as per AlQuraan.
689
689 Those are the ones to whom We gave AlKitaab and Hukma and the Nubuwwa. But if the disbelievers deny it, then We have entrusted it to a people who are not therein disbelievers.Blue part refers back to 18+ people mentioned in 683-87. They all were given SAME AlKitaab.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan