Can Quran teach you atheism?
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Peace. I recently came across some atheists who claim to follow the quran-alone!
I try to make a search on freeminds in order to know if some of them are in this forum as well. I didnt really found some, but came across a member who argued that quranic belief could lead to atheism
All 'idols' are all man made representations of entities that are claimed to have certain powers (but which in reality they dont possess.) ,such as zeus controlling say the wind,jesus being the creator of everything or osiris controlling the sun...Then we know that the quran prohibits idol-worship and construes it as the highest sin....
Further the quran names allah as the source of all power,life and will....
So far i think all will agree,and i have kept in line with quranic concepts...
The quran states that allah is one and with no partner repeatedly,all one has to do is show that this word allah is referring to 'nature' ,or all life as one interdependant whole, or as energy/power being a unified entity to show that the quran is calling to serve/be mindful/follow the rules of this entity,which is everything....Seeing as the quran continually asks one to observe the signs in reality/nature it is essentialy asking one to verify ones view of the real power of the universe which is not allah as just another single idol entity that man has invented,but in fact allah is another word for nature which is too vast to encompass totally,or understand fully,but can be verified in part and proved by the mere existance of life and observable laws,which are a part of nature......In this way the quran is calling to reject all concepts of unprovable single or multiple gods (atheism.),and instead embrace metaphysical naturalism as the single interdependent governing force of the universe,but not as a 'god' but as an interdependent unified set of forces,of which no one force can claim to control all of the others ..As claiming one force of the 'unity' is all-powerful amounts to creating an idol....Now I think this is intresting. Quran seems to be very much against all the gods people have and put peoples god in a negative perspective as atheists usually also do. Quran argues, that the real God is totally different from what people worship and that they cannot talk to her/him/it directly.
Can one actually be an atheist and in the same time believe in the Quran as well?
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Peace. I recently came across some atheists who claim to follow the quran-alone!
I try to make a search on freeminds in order to know if some of them are in this forum as well. I didnt really found some, but came across a member who argued that quranic belief could lead to atheism
All 'idols' are all man made representations of entities that are claimed to have certain powers (but which in reality they dont possess.) ,such as zeus controlling say the wind,jesus being the creator of everything or osiris controlling the sun...Then we know that the quran prohibits idol-worship and construes it as the highest sin....
Further the quran names allah as the source of all power,life and will....
So far i think all will agree,and i have kept in line with quranic concepts...
The quran states that allah is one and with no partner repeatedly,all one has to do is show that this word allah is referring to 'nature' ,or all life as one interdependant whole, or as energy/power being a unified entity to show that the quran is calling to serve/be mindful/follow the rules of this entity,which is everything....Seeing as the quran continually asks one to observe the signs in reality/nature it is essentialy asking one to verify ones view of the real power of the universe which is not allah as just another single idol entity that man has invented,but in fact allah is another word for nature which is too vast to encompass totally,or understand fully,but can be verified in part and proved by the mere existance of life and observable laws,which are a part of nature......In this way the quran is calling to reject all concepts of unprovable single or multiple gods (atheism.),and instead embrace metaphysical naturalism as the single interdependent governing force of the universe,but not as a 'god' but as an interdependent unified set of forces,of which no one force can claim to control all of the others ..As claiming one force of the 'unity' is all-powerful amounts to creating an idol....Now I think this is intresting. Quran seems to be very much against all the gods people have and put peoples god in a negative perspective as atheists usually also do. Quran argues, that the real God is totally different from what people worship and that they cannot talk to her/him/it directly.
Can one actually be an atheist and in the same time believe in the Quran as well?
A person who used to frequent this forum made the following comment about his experience here. I will quote his post
What do you get when you take out all faith from Islam and replace it with a cold rational materialism? You get a new brand of "Muslim" who calls himself a "Quran Aloner".... Granted not all of them are the same, and many are not as extreme as others, but one thing is certain these are the people who will totally change the Islamic landscape within a century. This much is clear to me.
This might sound like dialectics (its not) but a counterpart to the rightist Taliban has arisen in the extreme secular left. These are the people who will take over the Muslim world (FOX News was wrong, it won't be Osama bin Laden). These "Quran Aloners" are a very small and fragmented minority today, mostly in the middle to upper classes. But they contain all the characteristics that a future mainstream movement needs to have and become the dominant Muslim denomination of the future. And all the work that the radical conservative Muslims are doing is directly contributing to their rise.
Their principles are diverse, but they have a few common beliefs. Almost all of them reject the "5 prayers" scheme. Some only accept 3, some reject the prayer totally, saying it was never meant to be an actual ritual. They also reject the significance of Mecca, and refuse to face it. Some of them believe that everything that takes place in Mecca is pagan idolatry.
These beliefs may sound very far fetched and crazy to the mainstream Muslims today, but it is very clear to me that that these beliefs will become the mainstream views within the Muslim ummah. It happened with Rome, with Christianity, it happened again with the Reformation. And the same will happen in the Muslim world... It is the same pattern with every new religion. If it attracts the middle-to-upper classes at first, you can bet it will keep expanding until it is the dominant force. There are no statistics, but I bet they are adding at least 40% new members per decade, just as the LDS Church. Such a growth, while it seems small at first, is exponential.
I don't really have much in common with mainstream Muslim sects either.. most of the time I am disagreeing with their beliefs... but this group of "Quran Aloners".... this is something completely different. Some of these people can hardly be considered Muslims at all, as some of them don't even believe in the finality of revelation, and feel that the Quran is "incomplete"... In my book, these people are much more dangerous then the Taliban, because their beliefs are much more attractive for the majority. Theirs will be a silent revolution, without weapons, without beheadings... And all the conservative Wahabi Taliban types are only making it easier for them, because it is -Islam- which is being put on the chopping block because of their actions.
... This is inevitable. There is no way to stop this... Many Muslims will convert to their side in the coming decades. Anyone in fact who values a self-negating "rationality" above faith will join their ranks. Maybe another war, or two, is all that is needed for a major shift in ideology to take place.. and when the time comes, these people will be waiting to step up and offer their "solution" a complete reformation of Islam, stripped of all faith... Setting the stage for a slow evaporation and drift towards a total materialistic atheism in the Muslim world....
I say this is inevitable, because this time, unlike the time of the Mutazillites, there are no core battallions left in the Muslim world to hold back this tide of skepticism... Too much faith has eroded over the centuries... There are not going to be any more al-Thalabis or al-Ghazalis, this time... they will win.
http//www.interfaith.org/forum/this-is-how-islam-will-11195.html
I think the issue here from a Koranic point of view is not just about the nature of God but the day of resurrection and the concept of reward and punishment for our deeds.
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lol bigmo you gave a great laugh with that crazy persons comment. But its not unusual, I heard way more crazy things from the sectarians about quran-alone muslims.
I think the issue here from a Koranic point of view is not just about the nature of God but the day of resurrection and the concept of reward and punishment for our deeds.
Yes indeed. And the variety of believes among quranist are just amazing. Some claim to be atheist, some fundamentalist, some are more relaxed while others are pretty much likes sunnies and shiites. But the best part is, that there is no mullah to declare anyone KAFIR.
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Have you read this by any chance? servantofthelight.com
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The issue is that we just cannot comprehend what Allah is.... we can only understand some of it through it's qualities.
Sometimes when people cannot grasp Allah, and do not see Allah as a personified god or similar, they may resort to reduce Allah to 'nature' or a 'collective force in the universe'.
However, I think it would be hard to reduce away Allah to just nature, by reading the quran, since you have to also believe that this 'nature force' then wrote/authored the quran.... a multidimensional text. I'm not sure how nature writes texts... seems odd.... but that's just me....peace
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The issue is that we just cannot comprehend what Allah is.... we can only understand some of it through it's qualities.
Sometimes when people cannot grasp Allah, and do not see Allah as a personified god or similar, they may resort to reduce Allah to 'nature' or a 'collective force in the universe'.
However, I think it would be hard to reduce away Allah to just nature, by reading the quran, since you have to also believe that this 'nature force' then wrote/authored the quran.... a multidimensional text. I'm not sure how nature writes texts... seems odd.... but that's just me....peace
Good point. I am wondering why there is no verses of the Koran used to back what he is saying. It does not matter what interpretation a person comes up with as long as he can back that up with Koranic verses that we can look at and deduce if its supporting what a person is saying and whether we can use counter arguments from the Koran. Just stating ideas without Koranic support is a waste of time.
Also as Koranist we are to understand God the way the Koran wants us to understand Him and not how we perceive Him to be. You are right, we are never going to understand God since we are humans, but its the Koran we look at to understand how He wants us to understand Him.
It is clear from the Koran that God wants us to see Him as an entity with a consistent character.
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the koran teaches what you want to. if you are looking for contradictions, you will find it in the koran. if you want to kill non-muslims, you will find koran teaches that. if you are controlling and abusive to your wife, you will find verses in the koran that teaches you that. if you are atheist, the koran will teach you that.
there are those who read the koran and become believers. and then there are those who read the koran and become unbelievers.
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The issue is that we just cannot comprehend what Allah is.... we can only understand some of it through it's qualities.
Sometimes when people cannot grasp Allah, and do not see Allah as a personified god or similar, they may resort to reduce Allah to 'nature' or a 'collective force in the universe'.
However, I think it would be hard to reduce away Allah to just nature, by reading the quran, since you have to also believe that this 'nature force' then wrote/authored the quran.... a multidimensional text. I'm not sure how nature writes texts... seems odd.... but that's just mte....peace
The author of the website I posted above regards Allah ( who is not god ) as the single consciousness that manifests all creation instant by instant, and doesn't associate Allah with nature, so it's not always how you think.
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The author of the website I posted above regards Allah ( who is not god ) as the single consciousness that manifests all creation instant by instant, and doesn't associate Allah with nature, so it's not always how you think.
I guess one can also argue what 'god' means... and there will be lots and lots of interpretations.
I think there are many schools of thought who have "caught a glimpse" of Allah through their theories and understanding. Some people say our sub-conscious minds are "small" holographic fragments of the big universal consciousness. From this comes all creation. So one can see this as a way in which we are connected to Allah...There is a chance that one may increase in understanding and get a more and more accurate picture of reality...
peace!