What exactly is the goal of free-minds?
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Is free-minds to encourage Muslims to investigate into the Koran and the meaning behind what it says? Is it to promote a Koran-only view of Islam? Is it to promote interfaith dialogue between Muslims, or between Muslims and non-Muslims?
I'm especially wondering about the investigating into the Koran part. Like is part of free-minds questioning Koran-literalism, interpretation of Koran verses or anything like that?
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Is free-minds to encourage Muslims to investigate into the Koran and the meaning behind what it says? Is it to promote a Koran-only view of Islam? Is it to promote interfaith dialogue between Muslims, or between Muslims and non-Muslims?
I'm especially wondering about the investigating into the Koran part. Like is part of free-minds questioning Koran-literalism, interpretation of Koran verses or anything like that?
The first two reasons seems to me what happens here. The third one about dialogue etc is not what I think most here look for although occasionally we do have Sunni or Christians come here. I see this place as an excellent place to learn the Koran from a Koran only view. There are also many information here besides the Koran. I must say I have learned and grown here a lot. I personally believe its probably the best English Koranist forum.
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Well I consider myself a Jewish Christian at the present time, which I'm glad to see you don't mind. I guess I am curious what this free-minds thing is all about. It's nice to see fresh outlooks on Islam. Because the media sometimes portrays Islam in a bad light, and seeing some of the stuff some Muslims and Islamic Clerics advocate for doesn't help.
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Well I consider myself a Jewish Christian at the present time, which I'm glad to see you don't mind. I guess I am curious what this free-minds thing is all about. It's nice to see fresh outlooks on Islam. Because the media sometimes portrays Islam in a bad light, and seeing some of the stuff some Muslims and Islamic Clerics advocate for doesn't help.
Its not a fresh outlook. Its not something new. This Islam has been around before the Sunni or Shias came to the seen. Koranist Muslims are very similar to some degree with Kariate Jews while Sunnis and Shias tend to be similar to Pharisaic (Rabbinic) Judaism. Christianity is its own domain since Christianity never accepted an oral traditions like Judaism or Islam did. Koranist Muslims are very similar to Unitarian Christians.
I personally read and study (maybe not as much as I should since I am lazy sometimes) the Old and New Testament. I tend to prefer that to Sunni or Shia sources. Koranist come from a diverse backgrounds and its not that odd to find a Koranist going to Church. I know Koranist who do go to Church but they do not accept the Trinity.
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I don't accept the Trinity myself, as I think it's obvious Jesus didn't teach it in the gospels, and he was continuing with the theme of Monotheism as known to Israel, that our God is one Lord. But it's interesting you mention some Koranists going to church. Does this mean some Koranists believe that when the Koran speaks of righteous Jews and Christians, and Islam being submission to God, it could mean that Judaism and Christianity were stages of revelation in the faith of Islam?
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I would say the best use of sites like this is for mutual consultation, an exchange of ideas and opinions and a place to ask questions and learn.
Ultimately, God is the only Guide and Teacher of the Quran and every individual will have to choose what they believe and what they do based upon the knowledge and guidance given to them.
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I don't accept the Trinity myself, as I think it's obvious Jesus didn't teach it in the gospels, and he was continuing with the theme of Monotheism as known to Israel, that our God is one Lord. But it's interesting you mention some Koranists going to church. Does this mean some Koranists believe that when the Koran speaks of righteous Jews and Christians, and Islam being submission to God, it could mean that Judaism and Christianity were stages of revelation in the faith of Islam?
The criteria the Koran uses for faith is faith in God and hereafter. The Koran is non sectraian. Sunnis and Shias have the 5 pillars of Islam which not only renders Christians and Jews as non believers but also many of us here if not all.
The Koran says that there are believing Jews and Christians.
If you heard a lecture by Gary Miller, a Christian convert to Islam who used to be a Christian clergy, he said that he used to ask his teachers at the clergy what does it mean God has a son and what kind of son is that and yet he was never able to get an answer. It was unexplainable. Gary Miller used to conduct lectures with Ahmed Deedat.
But the Koran does talk about Jews and Christians as monotheist. And these religions claim monotheism. I think that Jesus was a test because of his unique nature. His birth was unique and he left the Earth uniquely. Just like the Koran is ahistorical so we were left with the Sunni and Shia fitna. The Koran does not talk about places and names and biographies and so the later generation had to manufacture them. I think its a fitna to see what people will do later on.
But in the end faith is an individual issue. And the Koran did talk about Jews and Christians as monotheist. But not all have faith. Therefore just like we do against Sunni and Shias, we must attcak their doctrine and not their faith as we do not know what really goes insiode the mind of a Christian since the Trinity is actually impossible.
2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve
Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Book stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin good and forbid wrong; and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are God fearing. 3113-115
And there are, certainly, among the people of the Book, those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. 3199
So here the Koran recognizes that there are Jewish believers and Christian believers. We must focus on attacking the Trinity doctrine or the teachings of the Talmud and Sunnah and not faith since we never will know who hasfaith in God and who does not. What a Christian may say about Jesus is one thing and what he actually believes is another. We can never really know because the Trinity is unexplainable.
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While this is all true, lets not forget that any of those mentioned who ascribe partners with God as in, Jesus, Mary, Angels, Popes, Saints etc. and Trinitarians will all have their works nullified.
Also, they can't reject and disbelieve in the Quran after it comes to them or their works will be nullified as well.
See; 320-24, 7147, 3965, 4216 etc.
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Well I consider myself a Jewish Christian at the present time, which I'm glad to see you don't mind. I guess I am curious what this free-minds thing is all about. It's nice to see fresh outlooks on Islam. Because the media sometimes portrays Islam in a bad light, and seeing some of the stuff some Muslims and Islamic Clerics advocate for doesn't help.
One of the objective (at least that's one of my objective) of this forum is to 'break down' the wall of dogmatic sectarianism which caused senseless and pointless hatred and enmity which has been put up and maintained by sectarians for many centuries, and to promote critical thinking..
As thus, this forum contained many varieties of people... with different beliefs and mindset..
Every individual has different faith/belief..And we believe in the rights of everyone to belief in any nonsense that they want..
As it's written in the Koran
"There are no compulsory in opinion/attitude/faith/belief, as truth stands out clear from error"..
2256The other objective is to raise the awareness of 'true meanings of islam'..
islam is not a religion or sect, the attitude of islam has existed even before Quran or Muhammad.
That's why, in the Quran, Moses, Noah, Jesus, Abraham, John, Jesus's disciples are being mentioned as muslim..
Gospels, Torah and many other books / teachings basically teaches islam...
And as thus you can 'teach islam' by using those books too...To every nation We appointed commandment/acts/rites/tasks (Mansakh) which they perform, therefore do not dispute with them about the matter and invite them to your Maintainer/Cherisher (ArabicRabb) (note and not invite them to your religion or sect); most surely you are on a right way.
(2267)Quran is not a mandatory requirement in order to be muslim, as evidenced within the Quran itself.. given within the lifetime of Noah, Abraham, Moses or Jesus there are no Quran in existence..
Which explains the "islam based on GOD ALONE" and not "Quran Alone"...
Salam / Peace
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I don't accept the Trinity myself, as I think it's obvious Jesus didn't teach it in the gospels, and he was continuing with the theme of Monotheism as known to Israel, that our God is one Lord. But it's interesting you mention some Koranists going to church. Does this mean some Koranists believe that when the Koran speaks of righteous Jews and Christians, and Islam being submission to God, it could mean that Judaism and Christianity were stages of revelation in the faith of Islam?
I would find Free-minds a nice place for discussions/debated/sharing info etc
There are other sites, as i cited in your other post.About not accepting the trinity doctrine, have you looked into Jehovah's witnesses?
They don't accept the trinity doctrine nor Marry being the "Mother of God", nor jesus as God himself.
I personally liked some of their explanations,
Jesus being ressurected and was sitting at the right hand of God (e.g he wasn't ressurected to be God himself)
Marry was bearing Jesus, and not God himself.
Trinity doctrine was invented a couple of centuries later after Jesus.
etc.
Read into their theology if you haven't already.and personally, yes i would currently believe in a "multiple paths to salvation".
Yes there is a verse which could mean that anyone who accepts any other religion besides "ISLAM", they will be losers (385),
however, islam in this verse might not necessarily mean "the religion of islam", because in the previous verses we see that, EVERYONE IN THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH SUBMITED TO GOD (are "muslims" = submitters) , WILLINGLY OR UNWILLINGLY (383)Also, in other verses we see that God Almighty PURPOSELY DIFFERENTIATED US
"And We have revealed to you, the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what God has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had God willed, He would have made you one nation , but to test you in what He has given you; so race towards righteousness . To God is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ/dispute. (54
Who will enter Heaven?
"and they claim, "None shall ever enter Heaven unless they are Jewish or Christian". Such are their wishful beliefs! Say "Produce an evidence for what you are claiming, if what you say is true!" (2111)
Yea, indeed everyone who surrenders/submits his whole being unto God, and is 2) a doer of good deeds, they shall have their reward with his Sustainer; and all such need have no fear, and neither shall they grieve. (2112)Which religion to follow?
Say "God has spoken the truth follow then the creed of Abraham--Monotheism, He was not one of the idolaters.." (395)
And who could be of better Religion than he who 1) surrenders/submitts his whole being unto God and 2)is a doer of good deeds, and follows the creed of Abraham--Monotheism, God Himself has taken Abraham for a close friend (4125)