So does reason come into how one views the Koran or not?
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The Quran repeatedly says that it is for people who think and possess intelligence. It is a trait of the righteous that they examine all words and follow the best, that they seek knowledge and wisdom, they verify information, that they think, ponder, reflect, study and make their choices about what they believe and how they apply those beliefs in their life based upon reason, sound knowledge and guidance from God.
In contrast, the rejectors tend to parrot things without understanding, follow leaders blindly, have limited knowledge and understanding or are ignorant of Gods message, do not think, have a herd mentality, and do not reason and engage in wishful thinking by making up their own religious laws, rules and beliefs.
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But do you think that reasoning could help in your submitting more to the Koran? Like can things in the Koran be beyond just the plain text, or beyond just the black and white literal meaning?
I'm just saying that you can't intellectually reach a truth you aren't ready for because of arrogance, and trying to do so might lead astray. If you're humble enough, use whatever facilities of reason God has blessed you with!
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I know that more traditional Muslims tend to say no, that the Koran tells you everything, and there's no space for our personal reasoning in it. Is this how all Muslims would view it?
Translations and meanings are extremely corrupted and twisted.
Without reasoning, with these kind of translations you'll never understand even 10% of the Quran as you should. -
Translations and meanings are extremely corrupted and twisted.
Without reasoning, with these kind of translations you'll never understand even 10% of the Quran as you should.Stop repeating that all the time, and tell us which Quran or translation to read???
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Post deleted.
huh?
???
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The Quran repeatedly says that it is for people who think and possess intelligence. It is a trait of the righteous that they examine all words and follow the best, that they seek knowledge and wisdom, they verify information, that they think, ponder, reflect, study and make their choices about what they believe and how they apply those beliefs in their life based upon reason, sound knowledge and guidance from God.
In contrast, the rejectors tend to parrot things without understanding, follow leaders blindly, have limited knowledge and understanding or are ignorant of Gods message, do not think, have a herd mentality, and do not reason and engage in wishful thinking by making up their own religious laws, rules and beliefs.
Good point. There are issue like eating pork where it may be difficult for us to understand the reasoning behind it. Some Koranist will accept the verses as they are others will try to investigate the reasoning behind it and make a decision. But in the end if they Koran wants to be explicit it can be so, if it choses to be implicit or vague it can do so. Generally speaking vague and implicit verses mean that the issue is not critical and Koranist can differ in their interpretation. Verses that are very explicit and is repeated often are things that Koranist agree upon. What the Koran sees as important is different than how Muslims might see them. Qibla is a very good example. The Koran chose to be vague about it, for most Muslims the Qibla is a crucial matter. However in verse 2.177 the Koran expicitly tells us that where you face when you pray or otherwise is not important. It tells us that God looks at other things about a person and not where he faces. There are such verses in the Koran that reveals to us whats important and whats not. The Sabbath is another issue the Koran tells us was ordered on the Israelites but for a reason specific to the time. Most Muslims will tell you that believing in eating pork or not having a Qibla is kufr. And Most Rabbis will tell you that not believing in the Sabbath is kufr. But how the Koran understands these issues is very different.
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Stop repeating that all the time, and tell us which Quran or translation to read???
Use your reasoning to know!
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The Quran repeatedly says that it is for people who think and possess intelligence. It is a trait of the righteous that they examine all words and follow the best, that they seek knowledge and wisdom, they verify information, that they think, ponder, reflect, study and make their choices about what they believe and how they apply those beliefs in their life based upon reason, sound knowledge and guidance from God.
In contrast, the rejectors tend to parrot things without understanding, follow leaders blindly, have limited knowledge and understanding or are ignorant of Gods message, do not think, have a herd mentality, and do not reason and engage in wishful thinking by making up their own religious laws, rules and beliefs.
Yeah, and there's people who blindly accept every translation no matter how ridiculous it is, without investigating anything at all and just accepting whatever they're told from whoever they're told, and are so close minded they don't even try to examine other beliefs and translations that even give evidence that their own belief or translations of the Quran are true.
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And how many translations have you read and studied? How well do you really know the Quran? How many years have you been learning about God? How much experience in the trials of life have you had to learn about God and the world?
My advice to you would be to not rush into understanding the Quran and do not be so hasty to attach yourself to an ideology you don't even fully understand. You should also not be close minded to other views, opinions and understandings nor should you be promoting what you only currently think is right and correct with arrogance, insult and disdain for others.
You are very young and you have so much more to learn about yourself, about God and the world to be making such claims and proclamations as you do. Your views and understandings will change and develop over the course of your life. Take your time and learn things slowly.
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And how many translations have you read and studied? How well do you really know the Quran? How many years have you been learning about God? How much experience in the trials of life have you had to learn about God and the world?
My advice to you would be to not rush into understanding the Quran and do not be so hasty to attach yourself to an ideology you don't even fully understand. You should also not be close minded to other views, opinions and understandings nor should you be promoting what you only currently think is right and correct with arrogance, insult and disdain for others.
You are very young and you have so much more to learn about yourself, about God and the world to be making such claims and proclamations as you do. Your views and understandings will change and develop over the course of your life. Take your time and learn things slowly.
Do you choose whether I fully understand an ideology or not?
Just as you know, it took me 1 year to agree with the views presented in SOL after reading more of it's articles -
And how many translations have you read and studied? How well do you really know the Quran? How many years have you been learning about God? How much experience in the trials of life have you had to learn about God and the world?
My advice to you would be to not rush into understanding the Quran and do not be so hasty to attach yourself to an ideology you don't even fully understand. You should also not be close minded to other views, opinions and understandings nor should you be promoting what you only currently think is right and correct with arrogance, insult and disdain for others.
You are very young and you have so much more to learn about yourself, about God and the world to be making such claims and proclamations as you do. Your views and understandings will change and develop over the course of your life. Take your time and learn things slowly.
That is whats beautiful about being a Koranist is that you are in a never ending journey as the Koran is filled with mysteries and challenges. I myself had changed my views about many subjects and still find myself changing my views. The Koranist persuasion is still in its infancy, there is still a long road ahead. But unlike when I was a Sunni, there is no stagnation.
Learning about God is another matter. Every one has his own experience. The Koran is made for mankind, but faith is an individual affair.
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That is whats beautiful about being a Koranist is that you are in a never ending journey as the Koran is filled with mysteries and challenges. I myself had changed my views about many subjects and still find myself changing my views. The Koranist persuasion is still in its infancy, there is still a long road ahead. But unlike when I was a Sunni, there is no stagnation.
Learning about God is another matter. Every one has his own experience. The Koran is made for mankind, but faith is an individual affair.
Faith is definitely stupid in many levels. It's believing something blindly, without reason, logic and examining the evidence.
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When you Trust in the unseen, when you Trust in God for things you cannot see or cannot control, when you Trust in Him when things are not going so well for you or when you are fearful, that is Faith. And it is a trait of the Righteous.
As I said, you still have much to learn.
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When you Trust in the unseen, when you Trust in God for things you cannot see or cannot control, when you Trust in Him when things are not going so well for you or when you are fearful, that is Faith. And it is a trait of the Righteous.
As I said, you still have much to learn.
Yep, and that's why Faith is stupid.
God does not exist,
You shouldn't trust something that is not proven to exist
You shouldn't trust something that it's assumed existence goes against logical reason and scienceI have nothing more to learn.
SOL's ideology makes perfect sense, unlike your blind faith, Abdun Nur and his friends actually give not only high logical reason, but also linguistic, historical and scientific evidence to support their firm beliefs.Faith is a ridiculous thing, it's simply putting your trust in someone or something just because.
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Yep, and that's why Faith is stupid.
God does not exist,
You shouldn't trust something that is not proven to exist
You shouldn't trust something that it's assumed existence goes against logical reason and scienceI have nothing more to learn.
SOL's ideology makes perfect sense, unlike your blind faith, Abdun Nur and his friends actually give not only high logical reason, but also linguistic, historical and scientific evidence to support their firm beliefs.Faith is a ridiculous thing, it's simply putting your trust in someone or something just because.
I actually agree with this!
In His Torah, God invites us to KNOW Him many times but ONLY 2 times He uses the word emuna, which is usually translated as "faith", but it actually means -the trust-, to trust in Him (like "iman" in Islam). ("know that I am your God who brought you out... etc etc).
Blind faith is OUT!And the Qur'an is a mixture of many apocryphal and Midrshic texts, and, without the numerical miracle of 19, one would be very doubtful that it comes from God!...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LJMLO4I_g&feature=plcp
interesting to watch almost every video on that channel
http//www.youtube.com/user/IslamicMiracles?feature=watch
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Anybody wishing to explore a major role reason plays in the Qur'an is requested to watch Jeffery Lang explain it effectively here
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifllgTA2pmY