Why do we cover our body ?
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Peace be upon you SA,
if that is so...than our strugle is to become spiritual again where these shame factors shouldnt an issue right ?
I would "ASSUME" so, yes. I think that is why the God mentions that the BEST dress is righteousness.
than should we empasise more on covering ourselves because of these shames(which is making us fall) or should we try to get rid of our shame and try to understand it better so that it doesnt dominate our thoughts ?
I would say that we should try to understand it better rather that covering up more like those involved with Taliban, or those at the Germantown masjid here in my city.
Cause the more we hide and become too much aware of these covering for shame the more we are falling into the trap and failing to understand the spiritual fact. isnt it ?
If my current understanding of the topic is correct, then yes, you are right, but we should remember that MOST of mankind will be rejectors so to walk around naked around them would not be logical.
Should we late the shame(physical aspect) dominate us or the spiritualism ?
The spiritualism, but we never forget our share of this world, we have to keep the balance, just change the CONTROL back over to the spiritual side.
in which direction should be our journey on earth ?
Within! D Where peace resides in the garden. D
I want to end this with the statement that this is my CURRENT thougts. I am not as secure with this topic as I feel I am with others, but just wanted to share my thoughts out loud. I hope others will join in to his discussion.
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peace to all,
just now a question poped in my head about dress thing. I was thinking, what is the main purpose of wearing dress or covering our body ? Is it to protect our body parts from getting hurt or like protecting our skin or certain parts which needs extra care to be healthy, like not getting infection or scars ?
OR is it about shame ?
If shame than why did God gave us something that we should feel ashamed of ? Of why should we be ashamed of God's creation ?
peace
According to some free-minders you dont have to cover your body. You can dress half-naked.
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peace to all,
just now a question poped in my head about dress thing. I was thinking, what is the main purpose of wearing dress or covering our body ? Is it to protect our body parts from getting hurt or like protecting our skin or certain parts which needs extra care to be healthy, like not getting infection or scars ?
OR is it about shame ?
If shame than why did God gave us something that we should feel ashamed of ? Of why should we be ashamed of God's creation ?
peace
According to some free-minders you dont have to cover your body. You can dress half-naked.
What do you think is the problem with that ? Do you think that makes God angry ? Are you ashamed of your body parts ?
peace
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I would "ASSUME" so, yes. I think that is why the God mentions that the BEST dress is righteousness.
Do you think that God can refer this as a state of mind. Which dresses up our mind in a proper way with proper knowledge ?
just a thought
peace
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Peace be upon you SA,
Do you think that God can refer this as a state of mind. Which dresses up our mind in a proper way with proper knowledge ?
just a thought
D Yes, I do think that. The only way righteousness can be a 'dress" is for it to be worn on the mind(nafs). But the God also instructs us for the physical side as well, due to the nature of the rejectors who cannot handle people walking around naked.
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But the God also instructs us for the physical side as well, due to the nature of the rejectors who cannot handle people walking around naked.
hahha...thats a good one..
I always wondered, if it was such a sinful thingto be naked than why are we born naked ?
Anyway...to me, dress is not a big issue. Its something we use to comfort ourselves and sometime to feel better>>>fashion...d but its all good as long as ppl dont use it with bad intension.
intension the the main fact as thats the nature of real person inside. So we should alwasy try to fix our inner person rather than how we appear(the outer look).
peace
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Peace be upon you SA,
I always wondered, if it was such a sinful thingto be naked than why are we born naked ?
Good observation! D
Anyway...to me, dress is not a big issue. Its something we use to comfort ourselves and sometime to feel better>>>fashion...d but its all good as long as ppl dont use it with bad intension.
intension the the main fact as thats the nature of real person inside. So we should alwasy try to fix our inner person rather than how we appear(the outer look).
I have nothing to add, you have stated my understainding exactly.
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Peace be upon you Burhan,
I think part of the answer is in the conditioning of the human mind.
Absolutely, the MIND(nafs) is what it is ALL about D
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Salaam Burhan,
The human, being a sexual creature, is apt to get aroused wether they are conditioned to appreciate nudism or not. Babies, children, young adults, and adults alike get aroused. In society women can be a source of arousal even if they are clothed, even if they wear hijab. Same as men. Different aspects of a woman turn a man on, her eyes, the way she looks at you, her lips, her butt, her breats, her hips, legs, the way she moves, etc. Likewise women are turned on by a man with a nice chest, smile, eyes, butt, etc.
In some religions, Christianity and Earth-based followings, clothing is there because it protects against the enviroment, not the shame of one's body which God created perfect or which is completely natural. They will worship before God/the gods naked to come to their superiors open. It is also a rejection of the traditions of the world which teach that the body is a bad thing, that must be covered because it is shameful.
However, we see that whether the body is covered or not people will feel shame or aversion towards it. Babies can be conditioned early on and social interactions (positive or negative events) can lead to a healthy upbringing or a bad upbringing. The child who is told that playing with him or herself is evil and has their hand slapped away from them in the living room with other family a # of times and in different contexts will grow up fearful of touching themselves and when they do see it as evil.
Take care.
Joe
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Salaam TheNabi,
Babies, children, young adults, and adults alike get aroused.
Babies get aroused, sexually! Wow, You should get that published in a medical journal.
In society women can be a source of arousal even if they are clothed, even if they wear hijab.
Thats what I meant by everyone is conditioned differently - but wearing clothes is the safe option, also God imposes self-conditioning ie lowering the gaze.
also a rejection of the traditions of the world which teach that the body is a bad thing, that must be covered because it is shameful.
shameful doesn't mean evil - it can also be understood in terms of embarrasment.
Humans become aware of their private parts around age 1 and then slowly develop a sense of shame and feel embarrassed if they are naked. This comes naturally like all other emotions. This is what Adam felt in the garden. Some people overcome that feeling have no problems being naked infront of others - and some don't. But whatever the person covering your privates in public is better than not doing so as a sign of respect for people who are not conditioned in the same way as you.
Take care.
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Peace be upon you Burhan,
Humans become aware of their private parts around age 1 and then slowly develop a sense of shame and feel embarrassed if they are naked. This comes naturally like all other emotions. This is what Adam felt in the garden.
Fantastic!
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Salaam Burhan,
Babies get aroused, sexually! Wow, You should get that published in a medical journal.
Well, the problem here is that even sexologists are not aware of whether this should be considered masturbation since babies playing with their genitals lacks the associated sexual connotations older individuals have in regards to genital pleasuring. Babies play with their genitals because it feels good and such sexual associations are later learned. It is erotic however and sensual. I never claimed that it was sexual. Yes, babies, like adults get aroused because the skin is a pleasure center. Associations to different events come later as I've said before. I'm sure you can understand this.
Thats what I meant by everyone is conditioned differently - but wearing clothes is the safe option, also God imposes self-conditioning ie lowering the gaze.
Why is wearing clothes a safe option? Safe for what, the weather? Yes, when we are called to lower the gaze we are called to not commit to fornication and adultery in the heart. Otherwise we will be looking down almost all of our lives, not really knowing who is who unless like the blind we become finely attuned to our sense of hearing.
shameful doesn't mean evil - it can also be understood in terms of embarrasment.
Agreed.
Humans become aware of their private parts around age 1 and then slowly develop a sense of shame and feel embarrassed if they are naked. This comes naturally like all other emotions.
Agreed.
This is what Adam felt in the garden. Some people overcome that feeling have no problems being naked infront of others - and some don't. But whatever the person covering your privates in public is better than not doing so as a sign of respect for people who are not conditioned in the same way as you.
I agree, it should be a sign of respect to cover in front of others who feel covering is modest and vice versa. I'm sure you do not take respect to the others in that account, but you should, or maybe you simply failed to mention it?
I'm not sure what adam felt in the garden was akin to nudity, but it certainly was to one of embarrasment. You see, in my opinion, adam had become aware that they were naked before God, i.e. all of their thoughts and deeds were clearly apparent to God. God had no problem with adam being naked from the fore, nor did God command adam to cover. When adam had done a wrong against itself, it tried to cover this deed, it did not want to be naked before God, but God could see adam's fault. God then said that the best garment was that of righteousness. Thus adam should cover itself with the goodness that God has called for. This was best.
Take care.
Joe
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Peace be upon you,
Excellent discussion Joe and Burhan, I think we all are on the "same page".
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peace Joe,
I'm not sure what adam felt in the garden was akin to nudity, but it certainly was to one of embarrasment. You see, in my opinion, adam had become aware that they were naked before God, i.e. all of their thoughts and deeds were clearly apparent to God. God had no problem with adam being naked from the fore, nor did God command adam to cover. When adam had done a wrong against itself, it tried to cover this deed, it did not want to be naked before God, but God could see adam's fault. God then said that the best garment was that of righteousness. Thus adam should cover itself with the goodness that God has called for. This was best.
Nice.
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Peace be upon you SA,
I think the "shame" is that the human is falling from the God. What I mean is this, we were meant to be spiritual servants of the God having a physical experience, but man has become twisted and thinks he is a physical being having a spiritual experience. Therefore everything man thinks about is "physical" and the God is sending us a message to take us away from that physical "life of this world" mentality.
Adam and his wife had all they needed, but they became greedy for more, so they fell from the "garden" and started to cover thier private parts, which they were not aware of before.
So while on the physical earth, we must cover our shame because MOST of mankind is are physically-based and the solution to that is to cover our private parts.
That is my current understanding unless I can hear a better argument.
What do you mean by covering their private parts?
What does covering of the private parts have to do with that situation?
May our Lord increase our Knowledge and Faith.
Peace.
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Do you think that God can refer this as a state of mind. Which dresses up our mind in a proper way with proper knowledge ?
just a thought
peace
Afcourse, nice pondering.
Since our minds can be dressed, it is best to dress them with Righteousness.
May our Lord increase our Knowledge and Faith.
Peace.
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The Qur'an says 7.26
O CHILDREN of Adam! Indeed, We have bestowed upon you from on high garments to cover your nakedness, and as a thing of beauty but the garment of God-consciousness is the best of all. Herein lies a message from God, so that man? might take it to heart.
If we bear in mind questions of climate, around the world and around the year, nakedness should be more concern fromthe point of view of health and coomfort than fromthe point of view of shame as it is taken for grnted without proper foundation.
Also comfort is much greater in many occasions with clothing than without it. Sun may be scorching, wind may hit and even bring sand or dust with it, cold is cold... Who would feel more comfortable going around naked than dressed. In some occasions I do not doubt that being naked is comfortable, when we choose the plce and the time. But for most occasions we feel mor ecomfortable dressed.
Also the other part, feeling beautiful or nicer... That is obviusly true and there is nothing wrong with it We all want to have the best presence, appearance, although without too much trouble too. If we must send hours i front of the mirror, the thing becomes burden. But clothes and aparel ar things that we legitimately use because we want to look good, and God considers that proper for us.
The shame as to the sexual parts I am not at all sure that the Qur'an means that rgarding the tree adam should not come near to.
Again we seem to be speaking about the bible, not about the Qur'an.
I think that the thing abut the garden and the tree has a completely diffrent meaning, but what is the use of it? We are too much conditionned by the Adam and Eve legend.
Salaam
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If one likes to fight the temptation of Satan it is courteous of others to cover themselves for your sake or for you to cover yourself in return for them. Otherwise it might be that you have to stare down in the floor or look another way, unless you have reached so far that Satan no longer has that sort of influence on you.
If someone finds you naked it is courteous to apologize for forcing them to control their emotions. Many Satan abstainers might not even like to see a naked person of their own gender, especially if they have abstained sex for a long time.
It is for that reason you cover your body, i.e. to avoid Satan from giving you impulses. If you think of sex when you see the opposite sex you go against the adultery commandment in the Torah as they are there to prevent you from succumbing to Satan.
Note I did not translate Satan, but Satan refers to the autonomous system in your Body which will entice you to certain behavior and deeds, i.e. the instinctive drive. It is which is your contradiction in life and main problem. If people were more concerned about Satan than arguing which religious "mumbo-jumbo" is true then they may had been better off. Quran teaches "Contemplate its application and not its strictness" when referring to the commandments.
Be safe
Amenuel
