Three or Five Daily Prayers?
-
Well, from what I have been reading here on the forums, it appears that two daily prayers would make sense. But, somehow I feel obligated to do all five non-the-less. But I will keep a stronger focus on the two.
Anyone else like to state their opinions on this matter?
Peace
-
-
it appears that two daily prayers would make sense.
If obligatory prayers are 2 (dawn,evening), then which of these 2 is the Friday (Congregational) prayer in Ch.62 ?
629 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
it cant be dawn prayer since there's no business activity before dawn.
6210 Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek GOD's bounties, and continue to remember GOD frequently, that you may succeed.
and it cant be evening prayer since seeking GOD's bounties in darkness is not convenient
peace
-
If obligatory prayers are 2 (dawn,evening), then which of these 2 is the Friday (Congregational) prayer in Ch.62 ?
629 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
it cant be dawn prayer since there's no business activity before dawn.
6210 Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek GOD's bounties, and continue to remember GOD frequently, that you may succeed.
and it cant be evening prayer since seeking GOD's bounties in darkness is not convenient
peace
Peace kestrel,
Where is "Friday" in the Arabic? What is "the day of congregation"?
These are important questions when considering those verses.
May peace be with you.
-
Salam Layth,
Salam Realitykid,
I am for 3 Salat times (dawn, middle, evening).
The evidence for 3 is quite evident in the Quran and even looking at remains of earlier scriptures from God.
The evidence for 2 is based on linguistic arguments which are quite subjective.
I am closely following arguments re this subject put forward by you, Wakas, and others delving deeply into the issue.
But I may have missed something from your arguments.
Could you please restate/ provide links to "how it is evident from the quran and even looking at remains of earlier scriptures from God" ?
Will appreciate very much.ma' salam.
Nuruddin
-
If obligatory prayers are 2 (dawn,evening), then which of these 2 is the Friday (Congregational) prayer in Ch.62 ?
629 O you who believe, when the Congregational Prayer (Salat Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of GOD, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
it cant be dawn prayer since there's no business activity before dawn.
6210 Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek GOD's bounties, and continue to remember GOD frequently, that you may succeed.
and it cant be evening prayer since seeking GOD's bounties in darkness is not convenient
peace
So you subscribe to the idea of three? Which makes sense with the verses you provided. However, Friday prayer is not optional for all of us. I cannot make it to a mosque on Fridays because there isn't one local and I do not have my license yet, although I am working on it. Even if I did, I wouldn't attend a mosque that teach anything other than the Qur'an, for obvious reasons.
Peace be to you Kestrel.
And peace to you too Layth.
-
Salam Realitykid,
I am for 3 Salat times (dawn, middle, evening).
The evidence for 3 is quite evident in the Quran and even looking at remains of earlier scriptures from God.
The evidence for 2 is based on linguistic arguments which are quite subjective.
Agreed with brother Layth. bravo
Peace!
-
May peace and guidance from God be given to all of us.
I appreciate, and thank you, all for participating and giving me some ideas to work with. Although, everyone's theories sound very convincing, I am still having trouble understanding it all. So, I have respectfully decided to continue observing the contact prayers five times every day just to be on the safe side. The extra prayers never hurt. And I now understand that if I am in a position in which prostrating and what not is difficult for me, say at the mall or with friends who are not Muslim (outside of my house that is), or in a public area in a place in which Muslims are looked upon in a negative light (my mom told me that if I openly admit to being Muslim, I'm liable to be shot in the front yard), I can pray while walking or sitting down. So now I have no excuses for missing them.
Thanks everyone for lending a hand in attempts to help me understand better. I now have a broader view of my fellow brothers and sisters.
Peace be unto you all!
-
Salaam
This is my first post, so please forgive me if i do not speak as eloquently as most of you Do. I am new to this Quran only aproach aswell.
I was reading somewhere on the internet a few weeks ago, (maybe on this site actually!) that there is Quranic proof that there are 5 daily prayers. The person talked about how, in the arabic language, words can take on a singular, dual or plural forms. If i remember correctly, the person showed, from an ayat of the Quran, that the quran tells us to observe the 3 standard prayers and take particular attention "the two other prayers" or something like that.I have found a website which says a similar thing as to what i read a few weeks ago. It too is a Quran only website.
http//www.islamrevolution.org/salaatsummary.htm
It says17.2 Salaat has been prescribed at specific times
(4103) ?Observe the ritual prayers; indeed the ritual prayer has been decreed upon believers at specific times.
17.2.1 The Dawn prayer
(11114) And observe (O Muhammad) the ritual prayer at both extremities of the daylight (dual plural = two entities, referring to the Dawn and Sunset Quranic time frames)?
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before sunrise (lit. ?the rising of the sun?)?
17.2.2 Noon Prayer
(177 Observe (O Muhammad) the ritual prayer from the decline of the sun (?Duluk al shams? at Noon when the sun starts declining from its zenith) until the darkness of the night ?
(301 All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the earth In the evening as well as when you reach midday (when the sun starts declining from its zenith).
Remark ?Duluk al Shams? (?the decline of the sun? at noon in 177 cannot possibly mean ?the rubbing of the sun? (at Sunset against the line of the horizon), as some people have claimed, because the Sunset prayer has to be observed when the sun has completely disappeared behind the horizon (as it is made clear in 20130, the exact limit between the Afternoon and Sunset time frames is "the disappearance of the sun", and it frequently takes over one minute for the sun to ?rub against the line of the horizon? at sea level and disappear completely. Salaat times are perfectly precise, not an approximation.
17.2.3 Afternoon prayer
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun (Dawn Quranic time frame) and before its disappearance (primarily the ?Afternoon? Quranic time frame)?
? The Quranic time frame directly located ?before ?the disappearance of the sun? is ?Asr (the afternoon, 1031). You cannot observe the Noon prayer in the ?Afternoon?, so the afternoon prayer is by definition included in the time period referred to as ?before the disappearance of the sun?.
? Exact same meaning in the following verse
(5039) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before sunset (primarily Afternoon, but also Noon prayer).
? The Afternoon prayer is mentioned by name
(223 Preserve strictly the ritual prayers (salawat), as well as the middle prayer (Salaat al wusta), and stand up before God with humility.
? The ?Middle? prayer is the Afternoon prayer, when the course of sun reaches the ?middle? between Noon and Sunset. The ?Middle? prayer is also the middle prayer of all Five daily prayers in Islam (Dawn, Noon, Afternoon, Sunset, Night). The Quranic time frame of the Afternoon is defined as ?Al ?Asr? (G.V. 391) in 1031. There are 391 verses from 2238 to 4142 (both verses included) which refers to the Middle (Afternoon) prayer
(4142) Indeed the hypocrites seek to deceive God, but He is the one who deceives them. And when they get up (or stand up) for the ritual prayer (after the Midday nap, see 245, they get up (or stand up) lazily (indicating they were sleeping),?
17.2.4 Sunset prayer
(11114) And observe (O Muhammad) the ritual prayer at both extremities of the daylight (dual plural = two entities. Referring to Dawn and Sunset Quranic time frames)?
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun (= Dawn prayer) and before its disappearance (Afternoon, and Noon prayers), as well as from the (first) hours of the night (= Sunset/Night prayers), and celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities (regular plural = three or more extremities) of the daylight, that you may be content.
? The limit between the Afternoon and Sunset prayers is ?the (complete) disappearance of the sun?. Once the sun has completely disappeared visually in the sky at sea level, it is time for the Sunset prayer.
17.2.5 Night prayer
? The ?Night prayer? is mentioned by name in 2458.
? 20130 above says that we shall praise God ?from the (first) hours of the night (= Sunset/Night prayers), and celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities of the daylight (regular plural = three or more extremities), that you may be content.?
? The Arabic expression which stands for ?from the (first) hours of the night? (Aanaa? llayl) is plural and describes an extended period of time that is much too short for the Sunset time frame alone described in 921 (barely an hour). Therefore ?from the (first) hours of the night? englobes both the ?Sunset? (921) and ?dark Night? (932) Quranic time frames.
Remark ?Celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities of the daylight? in 20130 is a regular plural (three or more extremities) which mirrors the dual expression ?both extremities of the daylight? (Dawn + Sunset Quranic time frames) in 11114. Therefore there are four extremities of the daylight (Crack of Dawn, Sunrise, Sunset, end of twilight), which shows that we shall observe the ritual prayer "at the extremities of the daylight
-
Before the crack of dawn (Night prayer),
-
Between the crack of Dawn and sunrise (Dawn prayer),
-
After sunrise (Noon prayer); 1778 makes it clear there is no ritual prayer between Sunrise and Noon; the morning is the only Quranic time frame without a Salaat.
-
Before Sunset (Afternoon prayer),
-
From sunset until the end of the twilight (Sunset prayer),
-
After the twilight (Night prayer).
This means FIVE daily ritual prayers, there is no way around it.
I hope this helps, please verify the information as well.
Allah is the Greatest, the all Powerful, and The most Merciful and Oft-Forgiving. May he forgive us for our shortcomings and what we may do out of ignorance.
-
-
Zero
-
Salam All
Zero
;D short concise and as always sarcastic. But please, give me and all who are interested in an explanation?
Among the prayers is Zikr and salat really the same thing?
For me, there are five prayers a day and at least a voluntary prayer at night. The corners of the day (11.114 20.130, ) the two twilights with the prayers to their initial times (dawn and Asr) and their end-times (Duha and sunset). It seems to have as Jesus prayed. We find evidence in the NT and still pray five prayers monks and nuns (the 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th hour).
Salaam sun
-
i advice you guyz, FIRST OF ALL to study the word
Sol-laa-ta-wa-atu-zakaa and DEEN
elektro
-
May peace and guidance from God be given to all of us.
I appreciate, and thank you, all for participating and giving me some ideas to work with. Although, everyone's theories sound very convincing, I am still having trouble understanding it all. So, I have respectfully decided to continue observing the contact prayers five times every day just to be on the safe side. The extra prayers never hurt. And I now understand that if I am in a position in which prostrating and what not is difficult for me, say at the mall or with friends who are not Muslim (outside of my house that is), or in a public area in a place in which Muslims are looked upon in a negative light (my mom told me that if I openly admit to being Muslim, I'm liable to be shot in the front yard), I can pray while walking or sitting down. So now I have no excuses for missing them.
Thanks everyone for lending a hand in attempts to help me understand better. I now have a broader view of my fellow brothers and sisters.
Peace be unto you all!
Ain't the Quran liberating? In the end its not 2 or 3 or 5 that determines righteousness just like the Koran said
2.177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah.fearing
Salat ritual like all rituals is a means to an end not an end by itself. The more salat you do the less time you will spend on each salat and the less salat you will do the more time you will spend on each salat. In the end it balances out. At least that has been my experience.
What is interesting however is Sunni sources themself say the prophet used to pray twice a day while in Mecca. One in the morning and one in the evening. And they say the 5 prayer came when the prophet ascended to heaven. initially it was fifety then through Moses's advice the prophet brought it down to 5. Its kind of hard to believe that if God wanted it to be 50 then why did not the prophet pray 50 in Mecca. The Sects say because of persecution, but that did not stop him from preaching the Koran in Mecca.
Narrated Abu Dhar
Allah's Apostle said, "While I was at Mecca the roof of my house was opened and Gabriel descended, opened my chest, and washed it with Zam-zam water. Then he brought a golden tray full of wisdom and faith and having poured its contents into my chest, he closed it. Then he took my hand and ascended with me to the nearest heaven, when I reached the nearest heaven, Gabriel said to the gatekeeper of the heaven, 'Open (the gate).' The gatekeeper asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel answered 'Gabriel.' He asked, 'Is there anyone with you?' Gabriel replied, 'Yes, Muhammad I is with me.' He asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel said, 'Yes.' So the gate was opened and we went over the nearest heaven and there we saw a man sitting with some people on his right and some on his left. When he looked towards his right, he laughed and when he looked toward his left he wept. Then he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' He replied, 'He is Adam and the people on his right and left are the souls of his offspring. Those on his right are the people of Paradise and those on his left are the people of Hell and when he looks towards his right he laughs and when he looks towards his left he weeps.' Then he ascended with me till he reached the second heaven and he (Gabriel) said to its gatekeeper, 'Open (the gate).' The gatekeeper said to him the same as the gatekeeper of the first heaven had said and he opened the gate. Anas said "Abu Dhar added that the Prophet met Adam, Idris, Moses, Jesus and Abraham, he (Abu Dhar) did not mention on which heaven they were but he mentioned that he (the Prophet ) met Adarn on the nearest heaven and Abraham on the sixth heaven. Anas said, "When Gabriel along with the Prophet passed by Idris, the latter said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious brother.' The Prophet asked, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Idris." The Prophet added, "I passed by Moses and he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious brother.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Moses.' Then I passed by Jesus and he said, 'Welcome! O pious brother and pious Prophet.' I asked, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Jesus. Then I passed by Abraham and he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Abraham. The Prophet added, 'Then Gabriel ascended with me to a place where I heard the creaking of the pens." Ibn Hazm and Anas bin Malik said The Prophet said, "Then Allah enjoined fifty prayers on my followers when I returned with this order of Allah, I passed by Moses who asked me, 'What has Allah enjoined on your followers?' I replied, 'He has enjoined fifty prayers on them.' Moses said, 'Go back to your Lord (and appeal for reduction) for your followers will not be able to bear it.' (So I went back to Allah and requested for reduction) and He reduced it to half. When I passed by Moses again and informed him about it, he said, 'Go back to your Lord as your followers will not be able to bear it.' So I returned to Allah and requested for further reduction and half of it was reduced. I again passed by Moses and he said to me 'Return to your Lord, for your followers will not be able to bear it. So I returned to Allah and He said, 'These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.' I returned to Moses and he told me to go back once again. I replied, 'Now I feel shy of asking my Lord again.' Then Gabriel took me till we '' reached Sidrat-il-Muntaha (Lote tree of; the utmost boundry) which was shrouded in colors, indescribable. Then I was admitted into Paradise where I found small (tents or) walls (made) of pearls and its earth was of musk." Bukhari -
Salam All
;D short concise and as always sarcastic. But please, give me and all who are interested in an explanation?Among the prayers is Zikr and salat really the same thing?
For me, there are five prayers a day and at least a voluntary prayer at night. The corners of the day (11.114 20.130, ) the two twilights with the prayers to their initial times (dawn and Asr) and their end-times (Duha and sunset). It seems to have as Jesus prayed. We find evidence in the NT and still pray five prayers monks and nuns (the 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th hour).
Salaam sun
Please keep your traditionalist translations to yourself.
Prayer and any kind of ritual goes against every bit of my common sense and reasoning.
If you want explanations I have some you can read
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/the-arab-ritual-prayer/
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/sol-laa-commitments-is-not-ritual-prayer/
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/sol-laa-between-people/
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/sol-laa-to-yourself/
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/sol-laa-is-about-doing-deeds/
and most importantly http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/22/49/Whatever different views there are about salat, prayer is the least likely to mean so because it's utterly ridiculous and stupid
-
Salam
Please keep your traditionalist translations to yourself.
I think this is a forum where everyone is allowed to present his conclusions. My conclusions may seem 'traditionalist', but I do not lend support from secondary sources. (ahadith) but i read the AT and NT and found there this aspect from five time prayers. Question now, if its allowed to take knowledge from the bible? i'm not a theologian and well versed in the bible.
The stated LInks I studied before. I read the book and like it and find it logical. However, my Arabic is not sufficient and therefore i am careful. Personally, I believe, that prayer involves both aspects. Prayer is NOT a meaningless ritual for me, but a time of contemplation with God, which gives me strength- which maybe you don't need...The ambiguity of the word 'salat' (sulla), is probably another aspect of the greatness and mercy of God, by giving each person the exact form of worship, or a different form of 'Sulla' ... A good word may be the better 'prayer' as a ritual, five times a day without reflecting. I agree with you completely . Salam
-
Salam
I think this is a forum where everyone is allowed to present his conclusions. My conclusions may seem 'traditionalist', but I do not lend support from secondary sources. (ahadith) but i read the AT and NT and found there this aspect from five time prayers. Question now, if its allowed to take knowledge from the bible? i'm not a theologian and well versed in the bible.
The stated LInks I studied before. I read the book and like it and find it logical. However, my Arabic is not sufficient and therefore i am careful. Personally, I believe, that prayer involves both aspects. Prayer is NOT a meaningless ritual for me, but a time of contemplation with God, which gives me strength- which maybe you don't need...The ambiguity of the word 'salat' (sulla), is probably another aspect of the greatness and mercy of God, by giving each person the exact form of worship, or a different form of 'Sulla' ... A good word may be the better 'prayer' as a ritual, five times a day without reflecting. I agree with you completely . Salam
Prayer is a meaningless ritual, whatever your view is it doesn't change that fact. Prayer doesn't give you strength, it's a delusion you planted in your own mind. A fake impression
And yes these are traditionalist. You think that just because you don't believe in hadith you're free of them? Haha
Where does Allah ask us to worship Him? Please tell me, I'd love to know
