Prayer Direction
-
To be honest, I've only started saying "peace be upon him" and I said it out of respect..... idolatry??? Really? Lordfox what is your view on this |
peace
I think Nomad doesn't know what idolatry means.
Personally, I tend not to say 'peace be upon the messenger Muhammad' because Allah makes it clear in the Qu'ran that one should see all messengers as equal, saying peace each time Muhammad is mentioned is a clear preference. Secondly, as the messenger Muhammad is obviously in peace wherever he is right now, I do not really see the point of saying it.
It is like if I would say ''The sun is shining'' every time I see it in the sky.
-
I think Nomad doesn't know what idolatry means.
Personally, I tend not to say 'peace be upon the messenger Muhammad' because Allah makes it clear in the Qu'ran that one should see all messengers as equal, saying peace each time Muhammad is mentioned is a clear preference. Secondly, as the messenger Muhammad is obviously in peace wherever he is right now, I do not really see the point of saying it.
It is like if I would say ''The sun is shining'' every time I see it in the sky.
If i'm truly honest I never choose to say it (only really say it around my partner who is a Sunni Muslim and because it's now become a slight habit and been incorporated to my typing on here) and to be honest I would say it for any prophet not only Muhammed as unlike most traditional muslims I'm not biased. Mum said the same thing to me xD, "they are dead already whats the point" i'm like ".... yeah... kinda what I used to think before influence ?_?".
-
If i'm truly honest I never choose to say it (only really say it around my partner who is a Sunni Muslim and because it's now become a slight habit and been incorporated to my typing on here) and to be honest I would say it for any prophet not only Muhammed as unlike most traditional muslims I'm not biased. Mum said the same thing to me xD, "they are dead already whats the point" i'm like ".... yeah... kinda what I used to think before influence ?_?".
Your mum is right... what's the point?
If saying "PBUH" is considered as a 'blessing', well better send those 'blessing' to those who are still alive...But nonetheless it's a petty issue..
It's okay to say PBUH behind the name of anyone you want.. dead or alive..
No harm done and it doesn't matter anyway..Salam / Peace
-
Your mum is right... what's the point?
If saying "PBUH" is considered as a 'blessing', well better send those 'blessing' to those who are still alive...But nonetheless it's a petty issue..
It's okay to say PBUH behind the name of anyone you want.. dead or alive..
No harm done and it doesn't matter anyway..Salam / Peace
True. Just one of those things really.
I'm thinking of starting a thread...
What IS the Al-Masjid-Al-Haram... it's a question that constantly makes me ponder... I'm leaning towards it being a more internal thing but still unsure...
-
If we face the same direction, when we pray, are we united in our mind?
If you do not agree with principles, does facing the same direction solve the disagreement?Who does religion belong to? Do you need a middle man between you and GOD? Is there a direct line to GOD?
Which direction do you face ? Is there only one way /direction of seeking GOD?
How can you be sure you are following the truth?
2145 Even if you show the followers of the scripture ( All religions who say they have a scripture ) every kind of miracle they will not follow your direction. Nor shall you follow their direction. They do not even follow each others direction ( when they are from the same religion- They break up into sects!). If you follow their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you ( from your Lord), you will belong with the transgressors.?
( Does GOD guide? Your congregation guides? Your leaders guide? You guide yourself? No one needs guidance?)
2146 Those who received the scripture ( and can confirm/prove it is from GOD) recognise the truth as they recognise their own children, yet some of them conceal the truth knowingly.?
You choose your direction according to the guide.
Peace -
Selam Progressive1993, nice to see you again ,
peace and nice to see someone a bit younger than me doing so well on this .Thank you
Everyone was turning to the sky for guidance, so Allah gave us this al masjid al haram... but it's not a building... or a place(?) but Allah tells us that he set a focal point so that the people knew who followed the messenger.. but the Qur'an is not based on a one time basis, unless it was specifically referring to some building at that time but doesn't apply now? Or am I just confusing myself...
My point was that it cannot be a building since we are to set ourselves towards it WHEREVER we are. Perhaps, if it were a building, we would have to set ourselves to it's ideals.
Remember that it says
2149 From wherever you start/go out, you shall set yourself towards al-masjid al-haram; it is the truth from your Lord; and God is not oblivious of what you do.
2150 Wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards al-masjid al-haram. Wherever you may be, you shall set yourselves towards it; that the people will have no room for debate with you, except those of them who are wicked. You shall not fear them, but fear Me so that I may complete My blessings upon you and that you may be guided.
There is an article on this that goes in the right direction, yet has some flaws, written by Ayman
http//free-minds.org/whats-nameLet me know what you think
-
The Arabs in Palestine changed the name of the old city of Jerusalem to Baytul-mu-qadis very recently. When they used the word baytul for Jerusalem they did not say the meaning here was house but city baytul-muqadis meaning the Sacred City. The word muqadis is derived from the root qudus, which means sacred. The prefix mu before the root
indicates a state of being. There are also prefixes appended to the word bayta in the Reading signifying the state of the verbbaytul-ateeq in 2229 (the original system)
baytal-Harami in 52 and 597 (the system sanctioned)
baytika-muHarami in 1437 (the sanctions in the system to be observed by Abraham?s progeny)
p.s. I took it from MENTAL BONDAGE AIDID SAFAR, I advice u to read it. page 236
http//www.aididsafar.com/mental.html -
The Arabs in Palestine changed the name of the old city of Jerusalem to Baytul-mu-qadis very recently. When they used the word baytul for Jerusalem they did not say the meaning here was house but city baytul-muqadis meaning the Sacred City. The word muqadis is derived from the root qudus, which means sacred. The prefix mu before the root
indicates a state of being. There are also prefixes appended to the word bayta in the Reading signifying the state of the verbbaytul-ateeq in 2229 (the original system)
baytal-Harami in 52 and 597 (the system sanctioned)
baytika-muHarami in 1437 (the sanctions in the system to be observed by Abraham?s progeny)
p.s. I took it from MENTAL BONDAGE AIDID SAFAR, I advice u to read it. page 236
http//www.aididsafar.com/mental.htmlThanks nurmuhammed,
I got up to page 56 then got busy so when I have time I will definitely read it.
What is your opinion on Al-Masjid-Al-Haram? What do you make of the Kaaba in Mecca and the mosque being NAMED that?
Would be nice to see peoples opinons on this, other than the great opinions I have already got
Peace ) peace
-
If we face the same direction, when we pray, are we united in our mind?
If you do not agree with principles, does facing the same direction solve the disagreement?Who does religion belong to? Do you need a middle man between you and GOD? Is there a direct line to GOD?
Which direction do you face ? Is there only one way /direction of seeking GOD?
How can you be sure you are following the truth?
2145 Even if you show the followers of the scripture ( All religions who say they have a scripture ) every kind of miracle they will not follow your direction. Nor shall you follow their direction. They do not even follow each others direction ( when they are from the same religion- They break up into sects!). If you follow their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you ( from your Lord), you will belong with the transgressors.?
( Does GOD guide? Your congregation guides? Your leaders guide? You guide yourself? No one needs guidance?)
2146 Those who received the scripture ( and can confirm/prove it is from GOD) recognise the truth as they recognise their own children, yet some of them conceal the truth knowingly.?
You choose your direction according to the guide.
PeaceMy believe always was that God is everywhere, and God is closer to us than our jugular vein, so why must I face a certain direction (which technically I'm not actually facing)? I do not want to be going against anything here... I just simply am wondering about this. And one person actually told me before that the Kaaba and mosque in Mecca was actually named Al-Masjid-Al-Haram AFTER the revelation was written... if that's the case, how can the name of a place be predicted before even knowing the name... unless my logic is flawed, if so someone please correct me ).
Peace
-
Thank you )
My point was that it cannot be a building since we are to set ourselves towards it WHEREVER we are. Perhaps, if it were a building, we would have to set ourselves to it's ideals.
Remember that it says
2149 From wherever you start/go out, you shall set yourself towards al-masjid al-haram; it is the truth from your Lord; and God is not oblivious of what you do.
2150 Wherever you go out, you shall set yourself towards al-masjid al-haram. Wherever you may be, you shall set yourselves towards it; that the people will have no room for debate with you, except those of them who are wicked. You shall not fear them, but fear Me so that I may complete My blessings upon you and that you may be guided.
There is an article on this that goes in the right direction, yet has some flaws, written by Ayman
http//free-minds.org/whats-nameLet me know what you think
Selam ),
Wow! Truly fantastic! Something so SO well explained and agrees with me 100%. However I am slightly cautious. Who wrote this article? Has it been double checked for its correctness? The logic seems to fit very well... but are the translations correct. If someone can verify it, I will have my answer ). Wow it's so nice to know my gut feeling is kind of right xD.
Peace Progressive one xD ) peace
-
Selam ,
Wow! Truly fantastic! Something so SO well explained and agrees with me 100%. However I am slightly cautious. Who wrote this article? Has it been double checked for its correctness? The logic seems to fit very well... but are the translations correct. If someone can verify it, I will have my answer . Wow it's so nice to know my gut feeling is kind of right xD.
Peace Progressive one xD peace
Hi
I'm glad you are understanding the concept
Ayman wrote the article that I mentioned - he's a long-term poster. I dont agree with all of his points or his translations - such as that of al-masjid al-haram, but the article definitely goes in the right direction.Peace!
-
Hi
I'm glad you are understanding the concept )
Ayman wrote the article that I mentioned - he's a long-term poster. I dont agree with all of his points or his translations - such as that of al-masjid al-haram, but the article definitely goes in the right direction.Peace!
His translation of al-masjid-al-haram IS pretty convincing though... xD, I mean he explains it very well bit by bit AND pieces it together with other related verses. It seems on the right lines and definitely agrees with my concept that al-masjid-al-haram is NOT a physical building (or not the one that is named today anyway...). Do you yet have a round-about translation of it in English that you feel it may be? Al-Haram seems to be "the forbidden" but what about al-masjid? )
Peace D
-
His translation of al-masjid-al-haram IS pretty convincing though... xD, I mean he explains it very well bit by bit AND pieces it together with other related verses. It seems on the right lines and definitely agrees with my concept that al-masjid-al-haram is NOT a physical building (or not the one that is named today anyway...). Do you yet have a round-about translation of it in English that you feel it may be? Al-Haram seems to be "the forbidden" but what about al-masjid? )
Peace
Well the whole institution of obeying the forbidden is false because in arabic when you have "al" it does not literally continue with "the" from the first (ie. it is not "institution of of obeying THE forbidden", rather it is something like "the restricted institution of submission". The term "al salat al wusta" is comparable - it's not "the bond the most balanced"; it's "the most balanced bond". His ideas are very good though. I am not quite sure about his argument equating al-masjid al-haram to the straight path and just listing the "restricted/enjoined" ("haram" list of things and linking it to "al masjid al haram". Generally it is a good article that will help many have a fundamental idea of the concept which can be built upon with further individual study.
-
Well the whole institution of obeying the forbidden is false because in arabic when you have "al" it does not literally continue with "the" from the first (ie. it is not "institution of of obeying THE forbidden", rather it is something like "the restricted institution of submission". The term "al salat al wusta" is comparable - it's not "the bond the most balanced"; it's "the most balanced bond". His ideas are very good though. I am not quite sure about his argument equating al-masjid al-haram to the straight path and just listing the "restricted/enjoined" ("haram" list of things and linking it to "al masjid al haram". Generally it is a good article that will help many have a fundamental idea of the concept which can be built upon with further individual study.
Hmm very true. I see your logic. I dunno the first thing when I was reading it struck me as possibly something within ourselves in a certain sense. It's hard to explain. Like a mental thing... within ourselves that we face at all times.. ?
-
Hmm very true. I see your logic. I dunno the first thing when I was reading it struck me as possibly something within ourselves in a certain sense. It's hard to explain. Like a mental thing... within ourselves that we face at all times.. ?
I think it has something to do with God's system and his laws. Remember, it is "the truth from our Lord" and the Jews and Christians also know that it is the "truth from their Lord". This is similar to what is stated in Ayman's article.
-
I think it has something to do with God's system and his laws. Remember, it is "the truth from our Lord" and the Jews and Christians also know that it is the "truth from their Lord". This is similar to what is stated in Ayman's article.
Yeah... God's system and his laws. But it could be a part of God's system to face something wherever we are at all times that will have something to do with an internal process or perhaps a mentality (i think this is what i meant). I keep thinking... the restricted institute of submission. If restricted institute isn't a physical building per se... it must be something within us no? One of God's laws about our mentality or outlook... possibly... or not lol (DOH!!).
-
Peace brother Progressive1993,
It is great to see you on Free-minds. It has been a while for me.
Well the whole institution of obeying the forbidden is false because in arabic when you have "al" it does not literally continue with "the" from the first (ie. it is not "institution of of obeying THE forbidden", rather it is something like "the restricted institution of submission". The term "al salat al wusta" is comparable - it's not "the bond the most balanced"; it's "the most balanced bond". His ideas are very good though. I am not quite sure about his argument equating al-masjid al-haram to the straight path and just listing the "restricted/enjoined" ("haram" list of things and linking it to "al masjid al haram". Generally it is a good article that will help many have a fundamental idea of the concept which can be built upon with further individual study.
I agree that the accuracy of my translation of al-masjid al-haram can be improved. I have since changed my translation to "the inviolable institution of obedience". This is very close to your understanding of "system" but is more specific. An institution of obdience is not just any system but is a system of authority that results in obedience. So this is essentially the system of authority that we should not violate.
Peace and best regards,
Ayman
-
Peace Sushi,
How exactly is it idolatry by saying peace for a dead person... I'm not seeing the logic. Idolatry is the worship of an idol... a dead person to ME anyway is not an idol... would be ludicrous to think that... could you elaborate??
Where in the great reading does it tell us to say "peace upon him" or to repeat "sala allah alayh wa salam" whenever someone says the word "Muhamed" or "the prophet"?
I would suggest that everyone should read 3356 very carefully and understand what is required and look up the meaning of the word "taslim" mentioned, which is different than "salam".
Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace Youssef,
I would think a qibla, would be a direction for prayer, as to promote harmony. Instead of people facing all different directions.
Where does it say in the great reading that a "qibla" is a direction for prayer and where does it say that the objective of "qibla" is to promote harmony??
Is "harmony" an objective that can be gathered from 2143? In fact, from 2143 one can gather the opposite of what you are saying. The "qibla" is a test to separate those who are following the messengers from those who are turning the other way.
002.143
YUSUFALI Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind.
SHAKIR And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.
KHALIFA We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful.Peace,
Ayman
-
Peace Sushi,
Unfortunately when going into his family tradition, I would not have much of a choice but to do it... I keep getting many negative responses to anything other than praying towards the Black Stone and if I do otherwise it will be not entirely right.
Here is an experiment so that you can be certain who are the foolish people talked about in 2142.
Face any other direction in your prayer and surely the people who make a big deal out of physical direction will ask you something similar to the following
002.142
YUSUFALI The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both east and West He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.
PICKTHAL The foolish of the people will say What hath turned them from the qiblah which they formerly observed? Say Unto Allah belong the East and the West. He guideth whom He will unto a straight path.
SHAKIR The fools among the people will say What has turned them from their qiblah which they had? Say The East and the West belong only to Allah; He guides whom He likes to the right path.You will be able to empirically verify who the foolish people are.
Peace,
Ayman