How often do you discuss Islam with traditional muslims ?
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So you think it is possible to trigger the guidance of someone?
Shalom Aleikhem,
I have experiences where I spoke for once about what Qur'an says on certain things and the traditionalist muslim was shocked but upon verifying him/herself accepted it. On the other hand, I have close friends...very close...since childhood... I shared every hadith I investigated, every ayaat , every other funny tafsir , every contradiction.... nothing worked.
So... what I learnt from that is... I can not give anyone guidance. It is between the person and God. It is upto the person to chose what they want to do with the information I shared with them. And it is upto me to share it when I know the truth..after all.. concealers of truth are not nice people.
I also found explanations for the ayaats where God says that no matter how many times you tell them, they would not listen. Inviting them is the same as not inviting them. So, after I can have reasonable evidence at hand that the traditionalist I am dealing with is of this miserable type, I walk away. But for the sincere
16125 Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
And thus Allah will guide the truthful to someone that will be able to help them in their spiritual quest, and not the other way around. Personally I have noticed that most if not all, religious do not care at all, that is why I am more interested in discussing with agnostics and spiritual atheists instead of wasting time and energy with careless individuals.
Sometimes you feel there is a greater amount of 'hope'. My father who avoided himself with religious rituals was furious with Islam once he left his country and came to his present country. I didn't really blame him because my dad never imposed the 'Islamic' approach on me and told me to just be a good person and believe in Allah... end of really, as to protect me from all of the madness.
To be honest, the things I see a lot of so-called Muslims doing really went against me. I used to see people doing things like tell Christians they are going to hell, and they are going heaven because they are Muslim, or you would hear how women are stoned to death and their hands cut off because they stole something and it's the Shariah law which was meant to mean the 'Islamic' law and I just kept thinking "no... it can't be... the Qur'an cannot say these things if it is the Word of the Creator... it doesn't make sense". In a way it's confusing to explain but it didn't agree with me. Heck even when I was reading those translations in the Qur'an I had to literally check the root words to only THEN find out that it was translated completely out of context. I mean, what are these translators thinking? Allah forgive me if I am saying something wrong but surely someone with any sense or care for humankind will think "hang on it can't be used in THAT context"...
But hey... when majority of the planet is influenced with all such corruption, sometimes I feel to just turn the other way or just say "yeah" and walk off....
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Shalom Aleikhem,
I was just wondering if you guys get into "real life" discussions with muslims around you ? It is like a regular thing for me to be discussing Qur'an, Hadith , Islam etc with traditional muslims. I would like to know if its the same for you guys.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah
I mostly talk about this stuff in the net. I probably spoke to three or four people in real life. The net to me is far more effective. Muslims are too ignorant anyways to actually get influenced. But i do throw a few things. The most thing that catches them is the 5 salat is not in the Koran .
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I am currently passing out a version of this flyer to muslims
https//docs.google.com/open?id=0BwFbhXgE0EorVWtZVmRsdjNNWEkspreading the word around. Many have not heard of it, but now they might just hear it.
May God Almighty support us. -
I mostly talk about this stuff in the net. I probably spoke to three or four people in real life. The net to me is far more effective. Muslims are too ignorant anyways to actually get influenced. But i do throw a few things. The most thing that catches them is the 5 salat is not in the Koran .
And the shahada too..
Some of them (the commoners not the clerics/ulema/mullah) even laughed when I told them what would Muhammad's Shahada..sounds like
"I bear witness that I AM a prophet of God"..Usually it did started some electricity inside their brain to start thinking...
Salam / Peace
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I've stopped doing it because it only annoyed me. And I was never able to convince anyone so why bother.
I don't blame you Recluse, as one verse in the Reading I remember said, "To you be your way, and to me mine". Sometimes that has to apply in order to spare your sanity and precious oxygen lol.
Peace ) peace
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I am currently passing out a version of this flyer to muslims
https//docs.google.com/open?id=0BwFbhXgE0EorVWtZVmRsdjNNWEkspreading the word around. Many have not heard of it, but now they might just hear it.
May God Almighty support us.Why do that when you can reach a lot more people in the net.
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I only discuss topics with my siblings since my knowledge is flat compared to some of you guys
Mention the hadiths like these which will cause laughter then "Wtf"Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 285 Narrated by Abu Hurayrah The Prophet (peace be upon him) said 'Had it been permissible that a person may prostrate himself before another, I would have ordered that a wife should prostrate herself before her husband.'
Narrated Abu Qilaba "Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle . (Sahih Bukhari, Ablutions (Wudu', Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234)"
Most of my Muslim friends are brickheads, but hopefully I'll grow a back bone and share my thoughts
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And the shahada too..
Some of them (the commoners not the clerics/ulema/mullah) even laughed when I told them what would Muhammad's Shahada..sounds like
"I bear witness that I AM a prophet of God"..Usually it did started some electricity inside their brain to start thinking...
Salam / Peace
That's what I tried to explain to my father few days ago. In vain. (
I asked him why the Sunni shahada was not in the Quran. I told him that as Abraham, Moses, Jesus and other Prophets were all muslims (before Muhammad), it'd be illogical that their shahada was the Sunni one. I also told him to add Muhammad in the Shahada was making a distinction between the Prophets. He agreed with me BUT as Muhammad was the one who brought the final message, it was normal to add him - according to him. brickwall And also, another explanation he gave me is that it was a way to differentiate Muslims from Christians and Jews. I don't see any reason to do this because as 364 says
Say ?O people of the Book, let us come to a common understanding between us and between you; that we serve none except God, and that we do not set up anything with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons besides God.? If they turn away, then say ?Bear witness that we have submitted.?How can you come to a common understanding when you absolutely wish to differentiate from them on the basis of making a distinction between the messengers?
And eventually, he told me that Islam as a whole does not only come from the Quran, but also the hadiths. And the usual, you don't know how to pray without hadiths, you don't know how to do wudu without hadiths, blah blah. For the wudu, I proved him wrong and showed him the verse. It didn't change anything. I didn't tell him I don't believe in hadiths anymore. Questioning the Sunni shahada is enough for the moment, I think.
Well, I cannot give guidance. But I'll definitely try again. D
Peace
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It is almost pointless to think we can convince anyone of anything. I have spoke to "countless" people on the net and face to face and in 20 years only one person decided to believe and convert and he is still devoted 15 years later and the only other Quranist muslim I know where I live.
The thing to remember is we are not responsible for anyone but ourselves but it is righteous to remind and invite others. We have no power to guide or influence anyone, only God does and only He decides who will come to the message and if/when. We are only "tools" God uses, so to speak, and God gives us the chance/opportunity to something good. So don't be annoyed or discouraged and probably more importantly, do not invite harshly or be unrighteous in debating/inviting for that would be bad for us.
Most of all, we should be more concerned with our own Souls and our own learning and our own growing.
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Mr. Q has got a good point.
You might also like to point to others how this division and sects have started?( In the beginning? How long ago? Was there religion since the start of mankind?)
2213 (At the start) The people used to be one community, when GOD sent the prophets/ messengers as bearers of good news as well as warners. HE sent down with them a scripture ( The word of GOD only!) bearing the truth ( submission to HIM and total loyalty.) to judge among them in their disputes ( to correct those who have deviated from the truth). Ironically those who received that scripture ( and deviated) were the ones who rejected any new scripture ( that is meant to correct them) despite clear proofs (that it is from GOD) given to them. This is due to jealousy and division ( and arrogance). GOD guides those who believe ( submit and are loyal) to the truth that is disputed by all others ( all the other religions), in accordance with his will.?
2253 These prophets/ messengers; (that GOD has been sending) We blessed some of them more than others .( it is up to GOD) For example one was spoken to ( by GOD), and We raised some of them to higher ranks. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles, and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs have come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; Some of them believed ( submitted and stayed loyal to GOD) and some disbelieved. ( and took on other gods/ idols- prophets as idols..Scholars...) Had GOD willed they would not have disputed. ( But HE tests the loyalty of everyone) Everything is in accordance with the will of GOD.?
2214 Do you expect to enter paradise ( be part of the kingdom of GOD) without being tested? ( for your loyalty to HIM?)
2256 There is no compulsion in religion. ( You cannot force anyone to submit and be loyal, they are free to decide for themselves) The right way is now distinct from the wrong way. ( We humans opted for the freedom of choice, that is why we are here living this life) Anyone who denounces idol worship ( and disbelief) has grasped the strongest bond; ( submission to GOD and total loyalty to HIM) One that never breaks. ( A connection to GOD) GOD is Hearer OMNISCIENT.?
Everything is up to GOD.
Peace -
Shalom Aleikhem,
Thank you everyone for sharing your stories.
I cant help myself, I just have to intervene in discussions involving science or religion around me in real life. Unfortunately, it caused some irreversible damage too. But I do not regret that, as I did not discuss anything without respect and understanding my opposition's opinions. It is just that not all can accept the fact that "its ok to differ in opinions". I still see them as friends, but they act a bit strange since I started discussion all these with them.
May God guide us to His straight path.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
It is almost pointless to think we can convince anyone of anything. I have spoke to "countless" people on the net and face to face and in 20 years only one person decided to believe and convert and he is still devoted 15 years later and the only other Quranist muslim I know where I live.
The thing to remember is we are not responsible for anyone but ourselves but it is righteous to remind and invite others. We have no power to guide or influence anyone, only God does and only He decides who will come to the message and if/when. We are only "tools" God uses, so to speak, and God gives us the chance/opportunity to something good. So don't be annoyed or discouraged and probably more importantly, do not invite harshly or be unrighteous in debating/inviting for that would be bad for us.
Most of all, we should be more concerned with our own Souls and our own learning and our own growing.
I agree with you. And maybe I should have added, that this debate between my father and I went perfectly fine. It was respectful and it definitely was not heated. He did not understand my point of view, yes, but I was glad to have raised the subject. I did feel a bit discouraged later, but it was more due to the fact that he is my father more than anything else. Now I can just pray God gives him guidance.
In the end - we shouldn't conceal the truth. When having the opportunity to speak up, we should seize it. We never know, there might always be somebody around who doubts what he/she has always been told and we might, as somebody else said on this topic, trigger their thoughts.Peace.
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Absolutely sister, when the topic comes up or presents itself, speak nicely and invite to God with wisdom and kind enlightenment. Give them something to think about!
We never know how God's will works. You could have a simple conversation like with your dad and nothing comes of it, yet maybe months or years down the road, maybe that little seed you planted will take root and blossom, God willing. It's all we can do.
For example, the one brother who converted was someone I trained at our workplace. We got to talking about God in general and I just was having fun asking him questions and making him think. We had a good time with it and I thought it was just like everyone else I ever spoke to - it would amount to nothing. I didn't see him at all after training and around 3 weeks later, he shows up unannounced, knocking the door of my house. I was completely surprised and when I opened the door he said he was doing a lot of thinking about things we talked about and came to the conclusion that he wanted to study the Quran and wanted to know about prayer! I gave him a copy of Quran and that was 15 years ago and he is still a faithful, practicing believer and one of my closest friends.
You just never know what will happen from a few simple conversations. sun